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Slipshade
QUOTE (Spike @ Mar 26 2008, 01:23 PM) *
Well, I was about to give my 'Takes' a once over... but last I saw nobody even HAD takes on Maus... is it better to be unloved, or unheard of?

smile.gif


Maus was definitely a chopshop figure. I've put out that he actually lived in the shop. Definitely have to work in how he views the people who actually DROVE stuff. My instinct is 'necessary evil' but if I followed that I'd just be digging myself deeper in the hole on takes.... nyahnyah.gif



I think some of us have Takes ready. We just need to get your name on our takes pages. I also tend to wait until people have been officially accepted by WR1 before doing takes. But that is more of a guideline than a rule. smile.gif
lkim
I was just reading 3rd edition SOTA 2064, and it said there are rule for BTL programing options in Cannon Companion p67-68. I don't have the book right now, but I'll be checking on it. Might be useful for house ruling the BTL production.
Spike
Just for the record I just did a bunch of bad ass takes on about half the page. Then I accidentally clicked on something and everything disappeared, so I'm back to the beggining. I'll re-do them sometime, maybe tonight, but I'm working extra late so I don't think I'll get to it, sadly.

-Spike, who is very frustrated and feels much like 'incompetence:computers is HIS flaw, and not his characters....
Neuntöter
hrm, took me some time (turns out Will held a few surprises, even for me) but i finally finished the 30s. Well, somewhat. I put the gear and housing ones on hold for now, since i haven't completely decided that yet and i skipped no. 20 since i seem to remember that that one was primarily for the recruits of the first round. But since i am also probably wrong about that, i am ready to get back to that one.

next up takes.
Slipshade
QUOTE (Spike @ Mar 26 2008, 03:46 PM) *
Just for the record I just did a bunch of bad ass takes on about half the page. Then I accidentally clicked on something and everything disappeared, so I'm back to the beggining. I'll re-do them sometime, maybe tonight, but I'm working extra late so I don't think I'll get to it, sadly.

-Spike, who is very frustrated and feels much like 'incompetence:computers is HIS flaw, and not his characters....



I feel for ya. I had just completed all of Baby's mechanics page and the entire thing disappeared. I will see if I can get it back for ya.
HeySparky
Yeah. I don't remember wikispaces being that flaky several months ago, but it's definitely flaky now. I recommend working outside in a stable app or periodically hitting alt-a, ctrl-c to 'back up' your stuff.
Vegas
Wikispaces has done a lot of "upgrades" as of late and it's gotten a lot more flaky because of it. However they are UBER fast to respond to problems when I email them about our wiki and tend to have it "fixed" within 2-6 hours max each and every time.

Spike-
I checked to see if I could revert your changes, but they apparently never got saved. I wonder if by accident you hit "cancel" instead of "save" (god knows I've done that more than a couple of times *grumbles) Sorry we can't find them frown.gif

lkim-
Sorry about the name thing, dully noted for future comments
Vegas
QUOTE (lkim @ Mar 26 2008, 04:22 PM) *
And I'm wondering why. I thought of credsticks are like "gift card," where once it is purchased with the money, it contains the cred or "money" in it. Which mean, credsticks only have to beat the reader's detection.
...
This, with the same reason as above, I disagree. Because, again, credsticks don't transfers the cred from the bank to the seller, but it goes from the cred in the credsticks to the seller.


The problem is, even if they were "gift cards" they'd have a specific number for an "account" that would be able to track how much cred remained on the stick. If that same number is being used in multiple locations MILES apart from one another then the system for tracking said cash (and purchases) would notice something was amiss and likely flag the account as "stolen" "hinky" or something else to freeze the account and not allow money to be spent off those sticks, effective invalidating the accounts on them till the "issue" was cleared up.

QUOTE (lkim @ Mar 26 2008, 04:22 PM) *
Counterfeiting credsticks are probably, and most likely, very time consuming. I was wondering the threshold and the period. Credsticks are pretty complex or even intricate device, so I would think that the threshold would be somewhere between 8-12? And, I'm guessing here, about 1 week period? Of course, like you said, it's WR1's final decision.

Most likely yes, it will be a time consuming process. Again since it's the GM's discretion, final time/numbers will have to come from WR1.

QUOTE (lkim @ Mar 26 2008, 04:22 PM) *
I was thinking of like contact 1/loyalty 2 contacts. I was thinking of around 5-6 ganger contacts from the various gangs whom I have somewhat regular interaction by me selling BTL/credsticks. They are lowest or lower rank in the gang, but they too know where someone higher ups are at or what are their motives or plans of their gang. Not extensively to every detail, but they might have heard the rumors within the gang.

Reason for asking this is that since I have been around the Redmond for least 10 years or so, moving here to there, by my background, I was wondering if I could work in the gang as reconnaissance personal, acting as if I still don't have any gang affiliation? (Which in that case, I'll have to drop some skills or stat to make BP for Social skills, but that's ok, I guess).

You can choose to make your contacts whomever you want, I just don't know that you'll get all the information out of them that you're hoping for each and every time you tap them as a resource. The 'Gate is rather small and contained, I'd guess most people who are any type of "player" in the gang scene have eyes on them for all sorts of reasons at any given time so it's doubtful that your "secret" of joining up with the Ravens would remain a secret for long, especially with the attention Legion garners throughout the 'Gate.

QUOTE (lkim @ Mar 26 2008, 04:22 PM) *
Well, thanks for the answer, if you get the final words from WR1, you'll post it right? smile.gif

Of course. biggrin.gif
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (lkim @ Mar 26 2008, 03:22 PM) *
And I'm wondering why. I thought of credsticks are like "gift card," where once it is purchased with the money, it contains the cred or "money" in it. Which mean, credsticks only have to beat the reader's detection.

This, with the same reason as above, I disagree. Because, again, credsticks don't transfers the cred from the bank to the seller, but it goes from the cred in the credsticks to the seller.
Ah, see here's the problem with that: credsticks have more security in them than your modern-day gift card. One of those security measures, as mentioned in the book, is that the credstick has a record of all transactions associated with the card (probably along with a cryptographically signed hash of the credstick number and the transaction text, though that part isn't mentioned). (Edit:)Okay, so this isn't mentioned specifically in the book, but it's the only way such a system could possibly work, and given that you have essentially infinite storage in a credstick there's no reason not to. Thus, the moment the stick "phones home" and the bank notices that the stick's transaction history doesn't mesh with its own, there's a problem.

This means that, if you've copied a credstick, either the original XOR (eXclusive OR) the copy can be used freely. However, once the other credstick is used, the transactions from the other copy won't be present on the second one, and an error is thrown, rejecting the stick. It's really the only way for credsticks to work in the future, where data is flying hither and yon all the time.
Vegas
Thanks Eyeless... MUCH better put than my crappy, non-technical explanation nyahnyah.gif
Spike
I don't know exactly what happened, but I wasn't hoping for a save (sadly...). I was working with two windows open, one to read up on each PC, the other open edit. I went to click on the read window and accidentally clicked the edit window and it wiped out everything, leaving me a blank page. I was able, thankfully, to save the original window, but the unsaved new text (about an hour and a half of creative writing work...) was just.... gone.

I should posit some philisophical tidbit about how this represents the ephemeral nature of life or something, but frankly its all just Dust in the Wind at this point. Just as Socrates.

I was down to RICO fer bogs sake. I KNEW my character's instinctive dislike was valid... he killed my work! wink.gif
WinterRat1
Also, you have to remember credsticks are NOT just giftcards/credit cards. They’re your social security card, drivers’ license, passport, birth certificate, medical history, etc. In short, a financial and legal history of your life. Good luck faking all that and getting away with it for an extended period of time against any decent verification systems.

That’s why all SR literature repeatedly refers to any reliable faked credstick as only doable by entire organizations which have the resources to insert all the necessary bits of corroborating data into numerous databases worldwide.

Of course you can still fake credsticks on a small time scale, but it’s the difference between your local college buddy making you a fake ID for the purpose of getting into a bar versus a crime syndicate making you an ID to pass a background check by the Secret Service. Could the crime syndicate’s ID get you into the fake bar? Sure. You wanna try the college buddy’s ID against the Secret Service? Not so much…

Incidentally, that's also why runners tend to have multiple Fake ID's, because they discard them quite frequently as discrepancies arise.

So in equivalent terms, your forged credsticks probably can get the job done in Kingsgate, and maybe even the seedier parts of Redmond. Trying to use it in the Renraku Arcology will get you somewhere all right, but I guarantee it’s not where you want to go.

Certified Credsticks are what you’re probably thinking of when you use the comparison to gift cards, and those are pure credit, which while not easy to fake in the sense that you can’t just ‘generate’ money very easily due to earlier points raised by Eyeless, Vegas, and Slipshade, are considerably easier (by orders of magnitude) to fake than a registered credstick, which has all of the above mentioned data on it.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (WinterRat1 @ Mar 26 2008, 05:32 PM) *
Also, you have to remember credsticks are NOT just giftcards/credit cards. They’re your social security card, drivers’ license, passport, birth certificate, medical history, etc. In short, a financial and legal history of your life. Good luck faking all that and getting away with it for an extended period of time against any decent verification systems.
Not anymore; that's all commlink IDs now. ID-enabled regular credsticks no longer exist, according to the SR4 main book; it's all either ID on commlink, or certified credstick.

Yeah, I think it's silly too, but there you go.

Oh, and I do all my posting--message boards, emails, and now Wiki-materials--on Notepad, or, more recently, Notepad++. Much less likely to randomly crash on me. smile.gif
Whipstitch
Yeah, I'm afraid a certified credstick is the one area where all those unscrupulous corporations are guaranteed to start actually paying attention when you offer to run your info by them. I'm sure the guy behind the counter at Weapons World doesn't really care if your SIN is legit if you've got a certified credstick, all he asks is that your SIN appears legit enough that he can cover his ass and claim everything looked like it was going to check out if by some freakish occurance the 'Star or whoever actually get on his case for selling things to the SINless (it's not hard to imagine that retailers bear less responsibility in the Sixth World; I mean, hell, if corps can win extraterritoriality...). After all, the corporations know that the SINless are out there, and by Dunkelzahn, they're going to sell them things if they can! In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a big source of the lower grade black market SINs out there are the corps themselves. There's no way they can stop counterfeiting completely, but at least by selling SINs they can get a piece of the pie, since in most cases the corps are really just selling people the right to buy corp goods and services. But certified credsticks? Those are always going to have the best security features available, since there's no way of profiting from a guy whose money is no good.
lkim
QUOTE (WinterRat1 @ Mar 26 2008, 04:32 PM) *
Also, you have to remember credsticks are NOT just giftcards/credit cards. They’re your social security card, drivers’ license, passport, birth certificate, medical history, etc. In short, a financial and legal history of your life. Good luck faking all that and getting away with it for an extended period of time against any decent verification systems.

QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Mar 26 2008, 04:15 PM) *
the credstick has a record of all transactions associated with the card

Here's quote from the book.
QUOTE
P.322
The modern version of cash or bearer bonds, certified credsticks are not registered to any specific person—the electronic funds encoded on it belongs
to whomever hold it. Certified cred requires no ID or authorization to transfer or use.
P.259
It used to be that one’s SIN and other forms of identification were all stored on credsticks, pen-sized tubes that served simultaneously as ID and credit card. Since the Matrix went wireless, however, all of this information was transferred to the commlink, and credsticks only survive as certified but relatively anonymous means of payment.

With those features, mentioned by WR1, it would be just '60s. Plus, no one, at least anyone in the shadow, would use it anyway if it can be tracted down to the owner. Mr. Johnson wouldn't pay the 'runners with certified credsticks, if he/she knows it could be tracted down to him/her.

And, yes, I was talking about certified credsticks, since, as mentioned in the book, credsticks only survive as certified.

It may, probably will, stores data of how much cred it have left in the card, but I wouldn't think it stores all the record of transactions, nor transfer the data to the bank or corp using its "account" or "serial number". Because it wouldn't have that info in the credstick to be anonymous. Well, think about it it may have "serial number" of sort, so if one had it, but then lost it, ownner can freeze any activities in that certified credstick. But I still wouldn't think it may send the info to the bank or whatnot.
Dantic
Twiggs doesn't understand all this hoopla over forging and trying to counterfit creds.
"We going big time now eh? Hell sign me up for the penthouse! This is the gutter, and I thought we are a gang? You want something? You snatch, sneak, or demand it outright. You going to spend thousands in hard grubbed drug monies trying to set up a high end forging and counterfiting operation? Guess we can all sleep on top of the server banks." ohplease.gif
lkim
Well, it's because I want to counterfeiting credstick. It would be helpful for the whole gang, if it becomes possible. Not even using it, because, hell, you keep using counterfeit cred in your neighbor, no one would accept your cred. But selling it for 500 neuyen which have, say 1000 neuyen, in the credstick to fencer, so he could sell it for 8-900 neuyen to some other guy? That's big profit for both me and the fencer.
Dantic
One of the biggest problems with forging/copying credsticks (which only exist as certified in SR4) is the hardware, unless you manage to rip off a bank shipment of uncoded sticks, you have to make them yourself. This means using an electronics shop to produce them one at a time, or a facility if you are going to mass produce them. In addition the money doesn't just appear out of thin air, credsticks are not registered to a particular ID but they do have an issuing authority (bank, corp, nation). So even after getting the hardware, hacking someone's legitimate credstick, copying it, and heading out on your spending spree, if the original stick gets used at some point in a separate part of town within a certain time frame, then the issuing authority will know. Forgery and Counterfeiting is nasty biz, and if you fall back on it too much, especially without being able to spread the electronic trail out over a large area. Eventually someone will come looking for you, and if all your activities have been restricted to the barrens and touristville, they will know where to look. That being said, it's ultimately up to the GM as to how difficult it is to pull this stuff off.

<EDIT> Back to the "Gift Card" example. A reloadable gift card for say ten dollars doesn't have a physical ten dollar bill stuffed into the mag strip on the back, it just contains a serial number that the store's computer ties to a transaction record showing that you added ten dollars at some point, and it will now subtract the amount of your purchase and keep up with it like a mini account, you don't have your picture on the gift card, and it doesn't require and ID to use, but it is tracked everytime you use it. grinbig.gif
Vegas
lkim -

The question becomes where did you get the cred that you're "Counterfeiting" in the first place as you CANNOT create something out of nothing. Counterfeiting in the book is COYPING an existing credstick and making a clone. If you don't have a credstick with valid cred on it, your desire to counterfeit if pointless.

Also who in Kingsgate is going to buy a counterfeit stick that has a good chance of failing. Who is going to take that risk of their cred for a limited gain, except someone with a gambling addiction.
lkim
Ok, again there's "thin air" thing.

Certified credsticks are like cash in the '70s. Right now, there are people making counterfeiting cash out of "thin air." So, I know I'm over simplifying this matter, but if certified credstick are like cash, why can't it be counterfeited out of "thin air" just like today? Tech, of course will be advanced in '70s for protection against it, but so does the counterfeiting tech.

And yes, it's up to WR1. I'm just trying to reason it a bit.
Dantic
QUOTE (lkim @ Mar 26 2008, 09:54 PM) *
Ok, again there's "thin air" thing.

Certified credsticks are like cash in the '70s. Right now, there are people making counterfeiting cash out of "thin air." So, I know I'm over simplifying this matter, but if certified credstick are like cash, why can't it be counterfeited out of "thin air" just like today? Tech, of course will be advanced in '70s for protection against it, but so does the counterfeiting tech.


They are not like cash, cash still exists. They are more like a money order or certified check. grinbig.gif
lkim
QUOTE
P.322
The modern version of cash or bearer bonds, certified credsticks are not registered to any specific person—the electronic funds encoded on it belongs to whomever hold it. Certified cred requires no ID or authorization to transfer or use.

I'm not sure what the bearer bonds are, honestly, but it does state it's like modern version of cash.
WinterRat1
QUOTE
One of the biggest problems with forging/copying credsticks (which only exist as certified in SR4) is the hardware, unless you manage to rip off a bank shipment of uncoded sticks, you have to make them yourself. This means using an electronics shop to produce them one at a time, or a facility if you are going to mass produce them. In addition the money doesn't just appear out of thin air, credsticks are not registered to a particular ID but they do have an issuing authority (bank, corp, nation). So even after getting the hardware, hacking someone's legitimate credstick, copying it, and heading out on your spending spree, if the original stick gets used at some point in a separate part of town within a certain time frame, then the issuing authority will know. Forgery and Counterfeiting is nasty biz, and if you fall back on it too much, especially without being able to spread the electronic trail out over a large area. Eventually someone will come looking for you, and if all your activities have been restricted to the barrens and touristville, they will know where to look. That being said, it's ultimately up to the GM as to how difficult it is to pull this stuff off.

<EDIT> Back to the "Gift Card" example. A reloadable gift card for say ten dollars doesn't have a physical ten dollar bill stuffed into the mag strip on the back, it just contains a serial number that the store's computer ties to a transaction record showing that you added ten dollars at some point, and it will now subtract the amount of your purchase and keep up with it like a mini account, you don't have your picture on the gift card, and it doesn't require and ID to use, but it is tracked everytime you use it.


QUOTE
They are not like cash, cash still exist. They are more like a money order or certified check.


Dantic is dead on.

QUOTE
Certified credsticks are like cash in the '70s. Right now, there are people making counterfeiting cash out of "thin air." So, I know I'm over simplifying this matter, but if certified credstick are like cash, why can't it be counterfeited out of "thin air" just like today? Tech, of course will be advanced in '70s for protection against it, but so does the counterfeiting tech.


This argument misses two key points:

1. Cash has a method of being tracked. Serial numbers on the bills. The problem is the technology to track them in 'real time'. Electronic credit does not have that problem. If you put 1000 nuyen on a credit, someone has to be accountable for where it came from. Someone has to make good on that. If that basic trust isn't there, the whole electronic currency system collapses. Given that tracking electronic currency can be near instantaneous, and given that there's every reason to need to do so, there's no way financial institutions wouldn't.

2. If it was that easy to just give yourself money out of thin air, why wouldn't everyone do it? It's not that easy and it's not that practical, especially for a scum of the earth gutterpunk hiding out in Kingsgate. And there's a lot of legal, technical, practical, etc. safeguards as to why that is that we're not going to waste any more time discussing.

Bottom line so we can all move forward: The BTL production thing is fine, the one man counterfeiting operation is just not going to be a viable activity.
Eyeless Blond
Indeed, cash in the 2070s just doesn't exist. Oh, sure, certified cred is the future equivalent to cash today, but only because cash cards haven't really caught on everywhere yet. By the '70s all cash will be kept, safe and secure, in liquid money market accounts, that you access through check cards called credsticks, or through your own accounts. In other words, you don't actually carry any of your cash; the bank has all of it, and shuffles it to another bank (or maybe another account in the same bank) when you pay someone. Since all your money is perpetually invested in liquid money market accounts you never have to worry about inflation; the bank will take care of you by ensuring that your earned interest on every account exactly equals inflation, and the Corporate Court revalues the nuyen constantly to ensure that you always have the same amount of money in your accounts, forever. No more worrying about loss of value due to inflation. No more dealing with all those math problems associated with inflation, or earned interest. The banks, and their corporate backers, take care of all of that, transparently, so 1 nuyen now is the same as 1 nuyen next week, next year, next century.

And the fact that this is all a giant scam only makes it more delicious. biggrin.gif
Whipstitch
In all honesty, I'm really happy we won't be doing much in the way of counterfeiting. It really is for the best. If WR1 was OK with us counterfeiting, I'd be quite frankly terrified because there's no way in hell we'd survive if it was decided that Lone Star got even a whiff of any activity big enough to be truly worthwhile. You can get away with a lot in this world at times, but counterfeiting has historically been a great way to get killed by the authorities. I mean, I realize that we're out in the Barrens, but currency is always one of those things taken deadly seriously, and we're basically a bunch of ants.
Eyeless Blond
Hm. You know, it's just really sinking in: I'm the only guy in DitG with a car? Really?

Maybe I need to rethink that. nyahnyah.gif
Vegas
A few of us have bikes, but no I don't believe anyone has a car in game. Too damn expensive for gangers nyahnyah.gif And too big of a target for theft or destruction...

Badmarsh had one, but it got spectacularly exploded in the pre-game events biggrin.gif
Spike
I'm actually lkim on the counterfitting but since we seem to be dropping it...

If I can get my work computer access restored (security seems to think my login was compromised... ugh...) I'll try typing my takes on wordpad and transfering them over.

Bearclaw
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Mar 27 2008, 04:25 AM) *
Hm. You know, it's just really sinking in: I'm the only guy in DitG with a car? Really?

Maybe I need to rethink that. nyahnyah.gif


My bike and I fit comfortably in a 10x10 storage shed smile.gif
Hard to get that kind of security for a car for what I could afford.
WinterRat1
QUOTE
Hm. You know, it's just really sinking in: I'm the only guy in DitG with a car? Really?


I was wondering how long it would take for that to hit you.
adamu
Car cannot fight hez.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (WinterRat1 @ Mar 27 2008, 08:11 AM) *
I was wondering how long it would take for that to hit you.

Oh it's been kicking around for awhile. Problem with that is I'm not sure what to do about it, short of completely redoing and/or discarding my character and starting over.

See, here's the thing: Drip can't drive. Or, rather, there's no way in heck he wouldn't be pulled over and carded every time he drives anywhere. The solution to that is to use a car, with the one-way windows that apparently are all the rage by 2070. This, naturally, precludes the idea of a bike, what with its lack of an enclosed space. OTOH, cars have a whole host of disadvantages, in particular size, maneuverability, practicality, etc. It's a problem that's been annoying the heck out of me ever since I started thinking about this character.

And who or what is "hez"?
Neuntöter
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Mar 27 2008, 11:38 AM) *
And who or what is "hez"?


orxploitation slang.
lkim
QUOTE (WinterRat1 @ Mar 26 2008, 08:19 PM) *
This argument misses two key points:

1. Cash has a method of being tracked. Serial numbers on the bills. The problem is the technology to track them in 'real time'. Electronic credit does not have that problem. If you put 1000 nuyen on a credit, someone has to be accountable for where it came from. Someone has to make good on that. If that basic trust isn't there, the whole electronic currency system collapses. Given that tracking electronic currency can be near instantaneous, and given that there's every reason to need to do so, there's no way financial institutions wouldn't.

2. If it was that easy to just give yourself money out of thin air, why wouldn't everyone do it? It's not that easy and it's not that practical, especially for a scum of the earth gutterpunk hiding out in Kingsgate. And there's a lot of legal, technical, practical, etc. safeguards as to why that is that we're not going to waste any more time discussing.

Bottom line so we can all move forward: The BTL production thing is fine, the one man counterfeiting operation is just not going to be a viable activity.

Alright, final word of WR1, so I'll just move on. Just one more thing, then I'll move on, promise.

In the case where certified credsticks can be tracted by whatever electronic means out there, IF, say a politician, pays prostitude with certified credsticks, to be anonymous, what everyone is saying is that this can be tracted to blackmail him (at least it sound like that...).

What I was thought of counterfeiting credstick:
1. Credstick is worth the amount of credit encoded on it. Yes, it's done by the financial institutions, but after creating the credstick, their jobs done. Certified credstick is like small bank owns that much money. They will not track the money how it was spent, if they could, too much big power for them to blackmail everyone, everytime, everyday. So, for this reason I think it is not electronicaly possible to track down credstick. Physically with lot of leg work, probably.
2. Counterfeiting credsticks are just regular credsticks with fake code encoded in it. Thus it only have to beat the reader, if used on street, like transferring neuyen from one credstick to another. If it is to use with someone with real SIN, to real account in the matrix, yeah I have to agree with everyone on it would be hard to fool the institution.
3. With that reason behind me, I thought it would be easier to counterfeit credstick than ID or licence, where all the info has to be somewhere. Checking a ID, would have to be cross-referencing with whole lot of places in the Matrix, because the info would be, at least, at the government. Checking a certified credstick would be almost impossible, since there are no information of who is the original owner, when was bought, with what money. Who issue the credstick would be possible, if they have logo or sometype on the credstick.

Ok, that's it. I will not talk of counterfeiting credsticks anymore. I'll just have to change couple of stuff.

Sorry, I didn't have chance to read over the BTL creating rule on 3rd edition CC. Did anyone read it?
Eyeless Blond
Maybe I'll give him one of those silly-looking monocycles instead. It's not like it'd ever be stolen; noone else would know what it is, much less how to drive it. biggrin.gif
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (Neuntöter @ Mar 27 2008, 09:19 AM) *
orxploitation slang.

Any chance of getting a orxploitation-to-human dictionary?
Vegas
eyeless

Define "funny looking" because I honestly think all the bikes in SR look somewhat "funny" biggrin.gif

If you PM me your email I'll forward you an Or'Zet word doc I have that translates MOST of the stuff commonly used for flavor. biggrin.gif
Whipstitch
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Mar 27 2008, 10:38 AM) *
Oh it's been kicking around for awhile. Problem with that is I'm not sure what to do about it, short of completely redoing and/or discarding my character and starting over.

See, here's the thing: Drip can't drive. Or, rather, there's no way in heck he wouldn't be pulled over and carded every time he drives anywhere. The solution to that is to use a car, with the one-way windows that apparently are all the rage by 2070. This, naturally, precludes the idea of a bike, what with its lack of an enclosed space. OTOH, cars have a whole host of disadvantages, in particular size, maneuverability, practicality, etc. It's a problem that's been annoying the heck out of me ever since I started thinking about this character.

And who or what is "hez"?


You're overthinking this a bit and missing a couple of key points:

1. We're in the Barrens. There isn't really anyone to pull you over. I'm not saying that the Star sits back and lets every crime slide, necessarily, but I'd be really surprised if they went around sticking their noses into the Barrens over what amounts to a routine traffic violation. This could be a problem if you leave the Barrens on a bike or something, but even then I wouldn't worry too much because...

2. Baby and other short people get around on motorcycles all the time, and that's not even accounting for dwarf modified vehicles. Yeah, dwarves can't really be confused with children under normal circumstances (and drip would be tall AND skinny for a dwarf), but you also have to account for a helmet, boots, an oversized jacket and moving at decent speeds into the equation as well, along with the simple fact that just pulling over everyone who's surprisingly short is a great way to waste some time. Plus, routine traffic policing is automated via GridGuide, SIN checks and drones more often than not. You'll likely need a Fake SIN and license to drive around outside the Barrens in the first place, but for the most part it's not like there's all that many traffic cops driving around eyeballing people the old fashioned way anymore when GridGuide can just cite you, fine you and automatically alert the authorities when you really disobey traffic laws. SR4 motorists live in a strange new world where everyone who double parks and disobeys the speed limit faces swift automated justice if they don't have a way of spoofing the system. On the other hand, it's probably quite likely that a 14 year old could roll around on a vehicle that literally drives by itself provided he's got the fake credentials needed to fool GridGuide into thinking he's 16 and passed whatever it is that passes for an exam in a world of automated vehicles. Honestly, if it's a car you wouldn't even necessarily need to tint the windows; the car could very well be driving itself while you watch a simflick and I doubt anyone would bat an eye.

So your concerns are somewhat valid, and honestly, it IS rather hard to imagine someone as small as Drip handling a motorcycle without a motorcycle gyro system (which is outside of your availability) due to their sheer mass, but I certainly don't think being stopped by the Star is by any means inevitable.
Eyeless Blond
QUOTE (Vegas @ Mar 27 2008, 09:48 AM) *
Define "funny looking" because I honestly think all the bikes in SR look somewhat "funny" biggrin.gif

I mean the really funny monocycle ones, the ones with the one giant wheel that the guy sits inside. That's just freaky.

But also useful, as it comes with free gyro stabilization and smart tires, and starts cheaper than even my used, Gremlins-filled car.. If only it were more enclosed...
Eyeless Blond
Whipstitch

Can't think of a second reason either, huh? smile.gif
Whipstitch
I had to answer the phone (Company was getting back to me about a job interview) so I hit submit and came back to the post later. Call took longer than I expected. I have quite a detailed second reason, actually. To make a long story short, you're approaching things like it's still 2008.
Bearclaw
OK, updated my story to put Rico in Brickhouse Boys. Got most of the thirty done. Everything else is done (ie Gear, equipment, etc.) although some could use a little cleaning up.
Oh, and I gotta pay a couple of days rent.
Eyeless Blond
Whipstitch:

Good luck with the interview (though I guess that should've come before the call!).

And yeah, in the days of fully automated vehicles, it wouldn't really be all that unusual to see kids letting the car's Pilot program drive them around; in fact if you were slaved to Gridguide it would make perfect sense to not have automated cars require licenses, no more than you'd need a license to be a passenger. The problem with that unfortunately is that most motorcycles are not fully automated, so I'll have to find a cycle that *is* before using it...
Whipstitch
Yeah, the motorcycle gyro system would have to be your big purchase in that case, and I don't really think it's worth it. I just think that the cops are one of your lesser worries when it comes to choosing a vehicle at this point, that's all.
Eyeless Blond
Oh? Is that a high-Availability mod? I don't have my books at the moment. Then I'll absolutely have to buy one of the cycles with a gyro system pre-installed. Too bad they all look sillier than normal. nyahnyah.gif Oh, or a Segway! rollin.gif

But yeah, the fact that vehicles don't have an "R" around them seems to indicate that driver's licenses are obselete/no longer necessary by 2070.


Re: deadlines. I know we new guys don't have to define positions, but I'm assuming we need everything approved by Friday?
lkim
Quick qustion, for the take part of 30 questions. Are all the character in the Take page all active? I thought some are dead, or incase of Doc, in prison, who I don't know if he plays anymore or not....

And here's my 27/30 questions, for reviews/thoughts/comments.
[ Spoiler ]
Vegas
Eyeless

You don't HAVE to have your characters ready for review/approved by Friday. However, the longer it takes you guys to get them done, means the longer it is before you guys get to be "in play" in the game and intro'ed to the gang in however WR1 deems fit.

ALL

Right now I've got Whipstitch, Dantic and Spike reviewed and passed on up to WR1 for FINAL review. In other words those guys should be making NO changes to their character's stats or gear outside of correcting typos. Background and takes should be fully in place, but we won't fault you guys for adding to either of them or making corrections to typos.

Honestly guys if I "catch" you making changes to the character's stats and gear after you've asked for review (and I do see ALL edits made on the wiki), I will personally kick each and every one of your asses. Failing my ability to hunt you down, I will put your characters on the backburner for priority as far as getting the character approved or any additional questions. biggrin.gif I'm only being hard-ass about this because those of us doing the recruiting don't have the time to check and recheck and rerecheck your characters and I know we have some perpetual "character tweakers" (self-admitted even) who will constantly move things around unless we cut them off.

I'm just asking for a little more help here, because this does eat up a LOT of the limited time Slipshade, WinterRat1 and myself have for ANYTHING, not just DSF/Gaming.

*steps off her soapbox*

With that said, I will NOT be around from pretty much this point on, until sometime tomorrow (Friday @ Noon CST most likely). So expect some additional delays on getting questions answered regarding whatever, unless Slipshade or WinterRat1 can free up a little more of their time tonight. biggrin.gif
Spike
lkim: if you're interested, I put my take on 2070 counterfeiting up on the main forum, won't do you any good in the gutter here, but it cool to have interested parties weigh in.

Everyone else: retyping my takes on wordpad. Going much slower than the intial try did, and not quite as smooth, but I'm sort of recapturing my orininal intent. Is giving me a better, more complex, handle on Maus's peculiar personality, and they do read as sort of 'internal monologue' like I originally shot for. I don't think he articulates it himself (and quite frankly, since i'm not typing staccato broken English (as internally, he's speaking Russian, if anything), his voice is not quite right. Still too much my vocab, not enough Maus. Ah well. That's why I make characters like this: For the challenge.

I'll post the first batch in a little bit. Want to get a few more done first. Haven't started play and I'm already missing the Tough Quality, sigh.... but I do like the rework much better, makes his takes easier to do, actually.
Vegas
lkim

Yes, everyone in your list of takes are ACTIVE characters (including all characters that are new, minus your own as I haven't added him to the mix yet until I knew the specifics of your char.) I have been removing inactive characters as they've gone dormant or dropped out.

Doc is still an active character, in jail only because his player is currently on hiatus with limited access to the internet (much like Bockscar) so takes on all of them are necessary.
lkim
@Spike
Sure, thanks!

@Vegas
Ah, got it. Alright I'll try do my best.
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