kevyn668
Jan 6 2004, 04:57 PM
Oops, don't know what the hell happened there..
Reaver
Jan 6 2004, 05:28 PM
QUOTE (kevyn668) |
QUOTE | Reaver Posted on Jan 6 2004, 04:38 PM QUOTE (toturi) QUOTE (Reaver @ Jan 7 2004, 12:01 AM) QUOTE (Austere Emancipator @ Jan 6 2004, 03:47 PM) QUOTE (booklord) Simply put the horrors have such an advantage in numbers that I don't see it happening.
Still waiting on something to state there are more of them. The only quote I've seen so far is that there were "hundreds of thousands" in some areas. Which doesn't mean shit, because there are tens of millions of humans in some areas. |
QUOTE | You won't get an exact quote because there isn't one to give.
But, the whole point of the horrors is to cause a scourge. Doesn't make much since for the universe to have that programmed if it doesn't have the numbers to make it happen does it? |
QUOTE | By your admission, you have no proof. No quote, nothing Canon. I abjure ye, infidel, for thy lack of Quotes. |
QUOTE | And you have no proof your technology will beat them. |
"Can TO!!" Or to put it another way: Nor do you have nay proof that our technology will not beat them. |
Hence the reason this is a theoretical discussion. Hard data only holds so much weight in such discussions
Kagetenshi
Jan 6 2004, 05:30 PM
Hard data holds more weight than anything else. Well, theoretically it would; we've never tested it because there is none to test with

~J
GunnerJ
Jan 6 2004, 05:33 PM
Please stop raping winky smilies. They've done nothing to hurt any of you.
Reaver
Jan 6 2004, 06:01 PM
QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
Hard data holds more weight than anything else. Well, theoretically it would; we've never tested it because there is none to test with 
~J |
I agree, but in this conversation there is little hard data to go with. To ask how many horrors there are is like asking how many demons there are in hell. You don't know, but when the gates are flung open, all you'll be able to say is, "Wow, there's a butt load of them."
kevyn668
Jan 6 2004, 06:06 PM
QUOTE |
Reaver Posted on Jan 6 2004, 06:01 PM I agree, but in this conversation there is little hard data to go with. To ask how many horrors there are is like asking how many demons there are in hell. You don't know, but when the gates are flung open, all you'll be able to say is, "Wow, there's a butt load of them." |
Or from the other perspective: "Wow, there's a butt load more than there were the last time...and what are all those shiny--aarrgghh."
Kagetenshi
Jan 6 2004, 06:14 PM
One word: Cyberdemons.
Two more: Spider Masterminds.
~J
Austere Emancipator
Jan 6 2004, 06:18 PM
In that case, 3 more words: Pump Action Shotgun.
Traks
Jan 6 2004, 06:33 PM
I'd prefer my trusty munchkiny BFG.
Ahh, I miss those old times a little. Sure, games are prettier but more shallow.
Herald of Verjigorm
Jan 6 2004, 06:58 PM
Kagetenshi
Jan 7 2004, 12:31 AM
Has anyone used that? I'm more a fan of DoomLegacy myself...
~J
Kagetenshi
Jan 8 2004, 03:00 PM
By the by, does Chantrel's Horror have a name that's just not known, or is it a case of a Horror that has managed to become amazingly powerful without having to be Named?
~J, having recently purchased Scourge Unending
Reaver
Jan 8 2004, 04:10 PM
QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
By the by, does Chantrel's Horror have a name that's just not known, or is it a case of a Horror that has managed to become amazingly powerful without having to be Named?
~J, having recently purchased Scourge Unending |
From everything I've seen, it's name is Chantrel's Horror officially.
Kagetenshi
Jan 8 2004, 04:15 PM
It specifically states in Scourge Unending that because the only name known for it is Chantrel's Horror that Name-using magic is useless against it. It does seem to imply that it does in fact have a true Name that hasn't been discovered, but I wanted to check with others on that.
~J
kevyn668
Jan 8 2004, 05:34 PM
kind of like
[ Spoiler ]
Talon's Hate aka "Gallow" in The Burning Time
Yes?
Kagetenshi
Jan 8 2004, 05:37 PM
Problem with that comparison is that
[ Spoiler ]
Talon's Hate was the True Name and Gallow a pseudonym it took.
On the other hand, Chantrel's Horror doesn't even refer to itself, the name comes from the fact that it apparently did rather nasty things to someone named Chantrel.
~J
kevyn668
Jan 8 2004, 05:40 PM
Did it do something nasty to Chantrell or did this chap inadvertantly "summon" the beast....?
QUOTE |
Kagetenshi Posted on Jan 8 2004, 05:37 PM Problem with that comparison is that [ Spoiler ] Talon's Hate was the True Name and Gallow a pseudonym it took. On the other hand, Chantrel's Horror doesn't even refer to itself, the name comes from the fact that it apparently did rather nasty things to someone named Chantrel.
|
Meh...so I made an "inverse arguement" or "inverse statement" whatever.
Neruda's Ghost
Jan 8 2004, 05:56 PM
[grr, haven't gotten the hang of quoting, yet]
Wow, booklord...nice plot ideas, if not kind of creepy though. I was just wondering what your vote was based on those possibilities.
Personally, I side with Reaver and think that Aztech is already Horror run.
And no, I have no quotes or proof, just shooting the breeze so to speak.
Kagetenshi
Jan 8 2004, 05:59 PM
I doubt it, but some game I am going to have a trusted Johnson tell a comparatively moral running team to go kill everyone in a small village in the Yucatan, then torch the bodies and the entire village, making sure to destroy all fluid and not eat or drink anything themselves. The characters would be told that this is for the good of all, but they'd have to take the J on faith, as he's most certainly not letting them know that the town has been infected by an early-returning colony of Dread Iotas.
~J
Reaver
Jan 8 2004, 06:09 PM
QUOTE (Neruda's Ghost) |
[grr, haven't gotten the hang of quoting, yet] Wow, booklord...nice plot ideas, if not kind of creepy though. I was just wondering what your vote was based on those possibilities.
Personally, I side with Reaver and think that Aztech is already Horror run.
And no, I have no quotes or proof, just shooting the breeze so to speak. |
Aztech was horror run. Oscuro was helping Mr. Darke and I think one of the bigger horrors was also involved (Bonecrown if memory serves). If they still are is up for debate, but I would think there would at least be lingering effects from thier influence.
IIRC, Chantrel was a troubador that Chantrel's Horror took an interest in. There wasn't any summoning involved. Chantrel's Horror is wholly Astral - it looks like an orichalcum frame within which is suspended a (meta)human body, and which is constantly being "remade" with many orichalcum blades and flesh grafts. Like, first it's a troll, and then it gets whittled down into a dwarf, then stuff gets glued on until it's an orc...etc etc.
Chantrel's Horror's MO is to find a victim (Chantrel, for example) and slaughter everyone they know and love. It never chews up its victim. Sometimes it appears to go away for a bit, even some years, and lets the victim begin to heal and forget, and then it shows up again and eviscerates their children. It has a cool power where it can make melee attacks from astral space, bypassing armor (or skin or whatever) which it likes to use to, say, make thousands of juillene fries out of every organ in a target's body while leaving their skin intact. Or spread the contents of a given metahuman across the floor in elaborate patterns. And the like.
Chantrel's Horror is a real bitch.
edit - typos 0wn me.
Kagetenshi
Jan 8 2004, 07:51 PM
I don't know if the entire frame was orichalcum or just some of the whirling blades, and I don't remember the remaking from reading it last night (though that may have been a detail in Horrors, which I still haven't gotten my hands on).
Properly sadistic MO, however. Mmm, being able to mark people at any range just because of association with the target individual...
~J
fourstring_samurai
Jan 8 2004, 07:59 PM
the remaking is in horrors. i won it a year or so ago after a tough ebay battle
it also states who chantrel was, and the entire passage is through her eyes.
cool, to say the least.
No, it's not all orichalcum. But there's a bunch of it in there.
Incidentally, Astral Slice - the name of that power I mentioned - would work real well against the previously mentioned tanks and power armor. Not that I want to get into
that part of the debate...
They mention the remaking bit in Scourge Unending, as well. Also a good book and a lot easier to buy than Horrors, at this late day.
Kagetenshi
Jan 8 2004, 08:48 PM
Problem is, though, that you need to be related (in the technical sense, not the flesh-and-blood sense) to someone in the power armor or the power armor user has to have exceptionally vivid dreams, otherwise Chantrel's Horror can't Mark them.
~J
kevyn668
Jan 8 2004, 10:02 PM
QUOTE |
Req Posted on Jan 8 2004, 07:47 PM IIRC, Chantrel was a troubador that Chantrel's Horror took an interest in. There wasn't any summoning involved. Chantrel's Horror is wholly Astral - it looks like an orichalcum frame within which is suspended a (meta)human body, and which is constantly being "remade" with many orichalcum blades and flesh grafts. Like, first it's a troll, and then it gets whittled down into a dwarf, then stuff gets glued on until it's an orc...etc etc.
Chantrel's Horror's MO is to find a victim (Chantrel, for example) and slaughter everyone they know and love. It never chews up its victim. Sometimes it appears to go away for a bit, even some years, and lets the victim begin to heal and forget, and then it shows up again and eviscerates their children. It has a cool power where it can make melee attacks from astral space, bypassing armor (or skin or whatever) which it likes to use to, say, make thousands of juillene fries out of every organ in a target's body while leaving their skin intact. Or spread the contents of a given metahuman across the floor in elaborate patterns. And the like.
Chantrel's Horror is a real bitch. |
My God. That is horrible.
I mean that in all sincerity.
kevyn668
Jan 8 2004, 10:03 PM
QUOTE |
Problem is, though, that you need to be related (in the technical sense, not the flesh-and-blood sense) to someone in the power armor or the power armor user has to have exceptionally vivid dreams, otherwise Chantrel's Horror can't Mark them. |
So, C'sH can't go around all nimbly-bimbly slicing and dicing? There has to be some "connection"? Such as...?
Kagetenshi
Jan 8 2004, 10:06 PM
Yeah, Chantrel's is one of the more grotesque Horrors I've read about thus far. Still not finding the bit about the humanoid being remade, though... all it says here is "bloody, demonic looking".
Who/what is Oscuro? I'm not finding any mention in Scourge Unending... (which really has an ironic title given the existence of the fifth world)
~J
Edit: On a side note, not to spark a political debate, but Bone Crown and the current administration...
kevyn668
Jan 8 2004, 10:09 PM
QUOTE |
...Scourge Unending... (which really has an ironic title given the existence of the fifth world) |
heh.
Oscuro/Darke is the Big Bad's Yesman/henchman/handyman, and what have you in this world. Check out Harlequin's Back or one the Threats Books...or plow through the 30ish pages of the the "Horror" Threads.
So, since we're all playing nice and exchanging info now, who's this BoneCrown character??
Kagetenshi
Jan 8 2004, 10:14 PM
QUOTE (kevyn668) |
QUOTE | Problem is, though, that you need to be related (in the technical sense, not the flesh-and-blood sense) to someone in the power armor or the power armor user has to have exceptionally vivid dreams, otherwise Chantrel's Horror can't Mark them. |
So, C'sH can't go around all nimbly-bimbly slicing and dicing? There has to be some "connection"? Such as...?
|
Chantrel's chooses a victim, who it Marks. This victim it chooses because their dreams are unusually vivid, becoming accessible via the Astral plane. From that first victim (who is most of the time left personally untouched) Chantrel's Horror has the ability to Mark blood relatives of the victim with fair ease (an Average success needed), those related by marriage and lovers with decent ease but somewhat more difficulty (a Good success necessary) (my estimates of the difficulties are pure guesses, I know nothing about the mechanics side of the system), longstanding friends with the same amount of difficulty (Good success), recent friends if Chantrel's is lucky (Excellent success) and if it's a really good day, a business associate (with an Extraordinary success). In other words, while it can cut out sections of armored platoons with no warning, some people just won't have an appropriate link to someone vulnerable to the initial marking. Thus Astral Slice isn't a reason why powered armor would be ineffective on a large scale.
Now that I read this, Astral Slice doesn't seem to actually require a Mark on the target, but it requires an Excellent Success which I would guess isn't the most easy of things. It's like a sniper; effective, yes, but it won't stop an entire battalion.
~J
Kagetenshi
Jan 8 2004, 10:17 PM
I've got Harlequin's Back. Still need to get the original Threats, though.
Bone Crown the Usurper takes the form of a Name-Giver and comes along in a time of crisis, fixing the crisis and taking a position of leadership from the grateful populace. Then it forces people to "violate their own principles in the name of authority and community stability."
Bone Crown also likes to corrupt important nobles and do things that way. It also becomes more powerful the more people are directly or indirectly under its command.
~J
Yeah, and you know the Munchkin Brigade (or whatever they were calling it) are all clone-brothers-and-sisters, and of course they all love each other.
Prototype
Jan 9 2004, 01:06 AM
So where is the evidence that this Horror Bonecrown was involved with Aztechnology? Is this accepted wisdom or is there some sort of reference for it? I'd like to know more...
GoldenAri
Jan 9 2004, 01:30 AM
Back to C's H for a moment. You must not forget that it makes it's victim immortal, to even whole bodily destruction. You die, it just remakes you and keeps on torturing.
AZT would be be ripe for Bone Crown, Nemesis, and that group of horrors that like to set up puppet people in places of power (can't think of their name, they made the undead queen from Parlainth). Which brings me to a thought.
Conventional wisdom (at least to the best of my knowledge) places one of the board members of Aztech as a horror or agent of a horror (who then funds side projects like Mr. Darke). This means that in addition to everything else that goes along with being a Megacorp they AZT is also forwarding some horrors agenda.
What if it runs deeper than that? What if Bone Crown, Nemesis, and other intelligent horror of that type have made a sort of alliance where they would prop up a corperation that they could use as a front to benefit from, instead of just one of them. Perhaps that is how the horrors have advanced and adapted. They now cooperate with each other.
GunnerJ
Jan 9 2004, 01:58 AM
QUOTE |
Back to C's H for a moment. You must not forget that it makes it's victim immortal, to even whole bodily destruction. You die, it just remakes you and keeps on torturing. |
OK. When I first read about C's H, I thought, "That's pretty nasty. Probably would drive me to suicide. But at least then it'd be over."
But this is just vile. What a goddamn nightmare. And I must say, this is why I reccomended the pro-Horror side list explicit details: the more I hear about the Horrors, the more I want to find a nice warm kaer and hide away in it.
Kagetenshi
Jan 9 2004, 02:01 AM
Yeah. Chantrel's Horror won't be tipping the balance in a strictly military sense, but it can do wonders on the morale of a few people. IIRC it's limited to a number of Marked individuals equal to the Full Moons in a given year, though. Small comfort if you're one of the chosen.
~J
toturi
Jan 9 2004, 02:48 AM
QUOTE (GunnerJ) |
But this is just vile. What a goddamn nightmare. And I must say, this is why I reccomended the pro-Horror side list explicit details: the more I hear about the Horrors, the more I want to find a nice warm kaer and hide away in it. |
Well, just terrorise the terrorist. Develop the capability to cause hurt back to the Horror and lock it in eternal embrace, learn to feed off its suffering. That way, it is not just neutralised, you can turn it against the other Horrors, turn it into your pet.
Kagetenshi
Jan 9 2004, 02:52 AM
Care to suggest a way to do this?
Remember, it's not just hurting you, it's hurting everyone you care about. If you don't care about anyone, you probably weren't very interesting prey to begin with.
~J
toturi
Jan 9 2004, 03:03 AM
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Jan 9 2004, 10:52 AM) |
Care to suggest a way to do this? Remember, it's not just hurting you, it's hurting everyone you care about. If you don't care about anyone, you probably weren't very interesting prey to begin with.
~J |
Be a sado-masshochistic bastard and LOVE the BLOODY HORROR for giving you PAIN, sweet pain!

It will have to hurt itself.
Actually, just take a look at my sig. I'll
enjoy C's H's company.

Come on honey, HURT me!
Kagetenshi
Jan 9 2004, 03:13 AM
Then you don't want Chantrel's, you want Joie.
~J
toturi
Jan 9 2004, 03:18 AM
QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
Then you don't want Chantrel's, you want Joie.
~J |
Come on, I get to live forever with Chantel...
Kagetenshi
Jan 9 2004, 03:22 AM
Well, do you enjoy emotional pain that much? If so, and if Chantrel's happens to like that (a big if), you might do just fine there. Joie, on the other hand, would be happy to find someone on whom the Pervert Emotions power was unneccessary, though reading the description he might do that anyway just for the other effects.
~J
toturi
Jan 9 2004, 03:30 AM
Perhaps, but all these Emotion Horrors need to come up against is someone with a psychology so weird and twisted that causing pain and suffering to Horrors is the only thing that gives him pleasure.
And that can be quite easily done with psychotropic conditioning
moosegod
Jan 9 2004, 03:41 AM
I apologize to everyone for spawning this stuff.
That is all.
Joker9125
Jan 9 2004, 03:48 AM
QUOTE (toturi) |
Well, just terrorise the terrorist. Develop the capability to cause hurt back to the Horror and lock it in eternal embrace, learn to feed off its suffering. That way, it is not just neutralised, you can turn it against the other Horrors, turn it into your pet. |
That would be an interesting entry at a pet show.
well sir that's an interesting um....... im sorry what kind of dog did you say that was again.
toturi
Jan 9 2004, 03:52 AM
QUOTE (Joker9125) |
well sir that's an interesting um....... im sorry what kind of dog did you say that was again. |
A Princess Anne Terror, my good man. Otherwise known as a Queen's Collie Killer or Manservant Mauler. Notice the beady eyes and putrid breath, all Marks of a well-bred Horror.
kevyn668
Jan 9 2004, 04:02 AM
QUOTE |
toturi Posted on Jan 9 2004, 03:30 AM Perhaps, but all these Emotion Horrors need to come up against is someone with a psychology so weird and twisted that causing pain and suffering to Horrors is the only thing that gives him pleasure.
And that can be quite easily done with psychotropic conditioning |
Okay, I'm one the most
Pro-Human posters around here (GO HUMANS!!) but even I become squeamish when we start talking about your proposal, toturi. It reminded me of that whole "When you stare long in the abyss..." business. And even if we did, what do we do with an army of sickos after we win? Kill them? Turn 'em loose on society?
On a related note: I think Chantrel's Horror has to be the single most evil abomination that I have ever hear of in my entire fucking life. Suddenly, those Horror Hunter sickos are starting to seem like they have a valid charter. Maybe its just because I read Dog's "When Reality Intrudes" thread...
I know I'll regret this but...how do you kill that thing? It has a presence on the Astral, right? It can only harm people connected to his/her/its Favorite Mark, right? Could an astrally active mage take the big weapon foci and visit a little violence on ol' C'sH?? Or a "nethermancer"? (thats the word, right?)
Oh, moosegod: don't sweat it. This is new Great Debate. Eventually someone new to the board or someone that hasn't been around for a while would come across it and toss in his/her spare yen. Besides, we all seem to like kvetching about this stuff and its informative.
I'd like to say this again in reference to Chantrel's Horror: My God.
That is horrible.
kevyn668
Jan 9 2004, 04:03 AM
QUOTE |
toturi Posted on Jan 9 2004, 03:52 AM QUOTE (Joker9125) well sir that's an interesting um....... im sorry what kind of dog did you say that was again.
A Princess Anne Terror, my good man. Otherwise known as a Queen's Collie Killer or Manservant Mauler. Notice the beady eyes and putrid breath, all Marks of a well-bred Horror.
|
toturi
Jan 9 2004, 04:05 AM
QUOTE (kevyn668) |
It reminded me of that whole "When you stare long in the abyss..." business. And even if we did, what do we do with an army of sickos after we win? Kill them? Turn 'em loose on society? |
I prefer the term, "Contemplate the void."
And since these guys are psychotropically programed, they can be deprogrammed after we've won.
Kagetenshi
Jan 9 2004, 04:12 AM
QUOTE (kevyn668) |
I know I'll regret this but...how do you kill that thing? It has a presence on the Astral, right? It can only harm people connected to his/her/its Favorite Mark, right? Could an astrally active mage take the big weapon foci and visit a little violence on ol' C'sH?? Or a "nethermancer"? (thats the word, right?) |
No, actually, it can do its Astral Slice against anyone, though probably not reliably. Regardless, once you're on the astral it can dice you up regardless, and comparing the damage step with some of the other damage steps in the book it seems to dice rather effectively. It is, statwise, flat-out better than Artificer in every way save Toughness, and also in catagories like armor and mystic armor. Yes, it could theoretically be done, but it would be an awe-inspiring task. It seems to be among the most powerful Horrors listed in the book.
On a side note, my respect goes to FASA and Living Room Games for the creation of Earthdawn, only the second campaign setting to ever include details to flat-out make me shudder and the other one (Ravenloft in 2nd ed D&D) I was much younger at time of exposure to.
~J
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