You know, considering some of the genre fictions out there (ANita BLake? ), one Rogue Nipple (As opposed to a rouge nipple) is awfully tame.

Bull

You mean like Wildfire terminating their business with CGL over nonpayment and breach of contracts?

Looks like they aren't quite as optimistic as you are.

This last part is very true, though it is no fault of yours. What has Loren L. Coleman written for IMR since 2005? The repayment terms should cover work he does for IMR, but it seems his most valuable work is no longer being performed for IMR... unless he's drawing a decent salary that is being garnished in some way, in which case he is still operating as a corporate officer and representative to IMR partners.

That's not something I would like to see, as a matter of record. In my opinion IMR needs his writing, not his business sense.

- Ket, not an interesting interview subject

...just like a Tennessee Logjam.

Well,

It's unrealistic to make that comparison. The only past Line Developer that had total freedom was Rob Boyle. But that was because Rob Boyle was not only Shadowrun Line Developer, Rob Boyle was FanPro. The European side, (Fantasy Productions) had for all intents and purposes zero input or control over the game lines produced in the United States. Even then, if memory serves Rob had to get a cursory nod from Wizkids on his ideas for plot-line direction.

Every other Line Developer before or since has had some kind of creative boss to get approval from. At CGL it's Randall Bills who is the creative manager of all the lines.

Clutch

This. Needing approval from above is fairly normal. But so far, that has not been a problem!

Jason H.

That sounds like something that I don't want to look up in Urban Dictionary.

I think you are right on. I game with a bunch of long time Shadowrun fans, I'm part of a couple of gaming email groups, and I spend way too much time in my FLGS (we actually have quite a few around here amazingly.) Most people are either completely unaware that there is anything going on at all, or if they have an inkling of it they could care less.

Even other forums where this is being discussed seems to be made up largely of the people from THESE forums saying the same things in different places.

I'm in no way trying to suggest that what is happening isn't important - but our unruly mob here is a very small piece of the Shadowrun customer base - and most of that customer base doesn't know or care about what is happening.

One? Clearly you weren't reading the same book, big guy. They were spawning like Invae up in that joint.

Well, not thinking, but yeah, depending on what Top Secret information you give out, it could well be treason. Which, btw, is still punishable by death in the U.S.

But the process of vetting someone for Top Secret clearance goes waaay beyond a NDA.

When I had to get my SK clearance to work on manufacturing Battlemechs, they used a neural helmet during the interview. At least the dragon didn't pierce my mind. (or so I think)

How will the current CGL situation impact my proposed Battlerun books? Mercurial's Maidens have work to do for Horizon/FS.

On a serious note, my friends and I always used SR2 for Mechwarrior (2nd ed) as the priority systems showed the great parallels.

BlueMax

I used to do it.

Even with Rob and FanPro, things had to go through Mike Mulvihill over at WizKids for approval, as he oversaw the use of the Shadowrun license for them. Granted, it's seems like it was mostly a formality, since ROb and Mike had worked together on SR at FASA, but still...

The last time the Line Dev had anything close to autonomy was FASA, and even them was still stuck at the behest of accountants and upper management for certain details.

Bull

Eh, to be fair, I only read the trilogy once, shortly after it was released

Still, compared to graphic descriptions of sex with bestial werewolf cock... (It's a shame, cause the first couple Blake books weren't too terrible, for what they were. But they rapidly spiraled down into some wierd, kinky porn).

Bull

Um...Seriously? We get posts like the above from a moderator?

This is somehow related to shadowrun or IMR/GCL because...

Could ask that about your post, and this one as well. (I'm a huge fan of ironic hypocrisy.)

First five books were great urban fantasy, a genre I really like (huh, who whoulda figgered, since SR is kind of urban fantasy?), after that, downhill fast.

Enough of a tangent, though.

Boy, that's no frikkin' joke...one of the longest, most obnoxious periods of my life was waiting for my clearance to work in SAC HQ in Omigod, NE....

Quince doesn't think Bull was using his happy fun moderator orange font color, so assumes his commlink was broadcasting in Bull the Ork Decker instead of Bull the Moderator mode.

After the volume of tangents in this thread (including ~3 pages of police riding/humping unicorns ) THIS is the derail that catches your attention?!

Really?

Maybe Bull's simply as human as the rest of us and enjoys a good conversation too.

Ironic hypocrisy is more or less what I'm aiming for.
My post(s) on the Lorenii forum were inappropriate and I apologize for that. I'll go apologize over there next. (I would argue that posting publicly available information doesn't cross any lines, but I can understand Fistandfabulous's [sp?] line of thought that it is inappropriate to this forum.) My two requests are:
1) whether posting in orange, white, or pink mohawk, can the moderators hold themselves to the same standards members are held to, and
2) could we as members please have some method of contacting a moderator? And please don't say it's easty. In five minutes of downtime and armed only with an internet connection and Google I was able to find Loren L. Coleman's current home address, when it was built, and estimated appraisals for the last three years (hint: it's a VERY nice house), his previous home address (still owned by him and according to TigerEyes leased to IMR/GCL as "office space"), how much and who he donated to in the last presidential election, and what is presumably his home phone number. [EDIT: removed misleading information.] Now, my point is not that it was in any way appropriate for me to post the links to that information. It's that I spent 20 minutes (four times as long) trying to find out how to contact a moderator and failed. If so, I could have just asked if the links were appropriate to his forum.
Sorry, diverged from ironic hypocrisy and just asked for what I wanted. I'll try harder next time.

Contacting the moderator has been brought up in this thread and will be addressed.

And just to head something off at the pass ... the "Bull" that you found listed on an AYFL page is not the same person that posts on these [and many gaming message boards] as Bull.

Cool - thanks! BTW- was really glad to here you've already lined up a bunch of new clients. Congrats! And good luck with Eclipse Phase.

Tell me more. I was hoping one day we would get better descriptions of what some magic users get up to on the astral...

I'm thinkin' Lawnmower Man meets Pixar Studios for the graphics...

I don't think there's enough bleach to do anything about that image....

Posthuman plans to take over and run the events at GenCon, and hopefully Origins too.

Rob's title still says "Shadowrun Line Developer"... that's awesome.

This is a good thing

And is now fixed apparently to be just as awesome, simply saying "Eclipse Phase". (Shouldn't it technically be Posthuman?)

Pimp the Product, not the company, is nearly always the right answer. The exception is when the company is effectively the product. But that is more for a very well established company with a lot of successes and years under it's belt.

I actually stepped down as a moderator. Since I'm sorta working for CGL in a semi-official capacity as Missions Coordinator, I figured it was for the best. It wasn't real widely announced or anything.

And for what it's worth, I got yelled at by the RedJack for it.

Rob: Awesome, I was hoping that would be the case for the EP stuff (ANd the CT stuff as well). Good luck!

Bull

Indeed. I'm currently living in Dayton, Ohio, and I've never actually been to Seattle. I'd like to visit, see some of the sites, such as the "Future Home of the Archology" and the Underground.

Bull

*kicks bull in the shin*
damn it, you were too few as it was. But eh, personal ethics and all that i guess. <.<
i can understand redjack jelling at you.
someone at work just quit the other day, guess who'se shi(f)t i get to do tomorrow?

I'm still helping the mods out a little behind the scenes, but I'm not actually moderating, if that makes sense. They're currently in the process of expanding the ranks a bit again. I expect Fisty or Caine or RJ to have more to say on that at some point soon.

Bull

bah, you're no fun being all reasonable and all ._.
hope they'll keep your sopt open too, regardless ^^

Kinda like the U.S. President, you can still call him Mr. President once he's retired. You go play Line Developer for a while, I think you've certainly earned having whatever damn title you want. His grace is sufficent.


We're working on a number of ways to modify the whole mod business at the moment. We are expanding out list of moderators (as well as updating, since most folks know we've got a few who have gone away), working on the contact issue (although augmentin, you still had full access to the boards, so all you have to do is click on a mod's name, mine for example, and hit PM, or go to the button near the bottom of the main page that says 'moderation team' and click that for a complete list, along with PM keys), and also ... formalize whether we're going to "officially" use pretty colors in all mod posts. Adam has always liked "Mod Post Hate Engage!" disclaimers before his posts, and Chrome Tiger has been using that as well. Eidolon, Redjack, Bull, Caine and I all use a color code so the mod posts pop a bit more.

Sorry for the tangent, and the huge run on sentence. Just wanted to address this real quick. Carry on.

I think Bull's got more right to be there than I do. Adam as well. Previous mods for the most part still have full access. They don't usually get into the grit of moderating the forum, but they still play around behind the scenes.

Public apology to Bull:
Didn't realize you weren't a moderator anymore. I'm sorry. No snarkiness intended when I say talk about werewolf penis all you want.
Incidentally, stepping down as a moderator after joining IMR/CGL in an official capacity was pretty classy. I respect that.

@Fistandantilus4.0 LadyDoor just taught me how to do that. The challenge was that I was initially a "probationary member" and didn't know how or why. Some very helpful folks in another thread taught me to post enough times to become a member, but I didn't realize that would allow PMs. I didn't think I could send a PM and as previously stated, the "contact a moderator" link was(/is?) dead. Anyway, I heard you're working on it, so thanks! From an ease of use perspective, some kind of here's how to reach us note in the "My Controls" section would probably do the trick.

The thing that's most attractive about DS is that the arguments are more or less well thought out and when not trying to crush dissenting opinion, most DS-ers are a pretty helpful lot.

On the other hand, there's always the mounted cop discussions...

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, the limits on new accounts were put in places because of issues we were having with Spambots. Sorry for the hassle. We're still in the process of playing with some things. As always, Semper Gumbi.

The problem is that apparently he's not paying it back. The fact that freelancers aren't all being paid indicates that CGL probably hasn't received a huge influx of cash recently. Jennifer Harding hinted that she didn't think Loren Coleman was going to pay it back, and flat-out said that she could not continue to work with Loren Coleman, for "ethical reasons".

Would you be willing to continue working (for no pay, no less) with an Embezzler? I know that I would not...

Keep the Faith

The plan, as has been stated, is for recompense to be made. These sort of things do not happen all at once, though.

Jason H.

How is that apparent to you? The freelancers are not Catalyst's only creditors. Maybe there's cash coming in and it was necessary to give a hunk of it to WildFire in order to facilitate the orderly transfer of inventory ownership and give them the seed capital needed to distribute their own books until a new publisher is located? Maybe it went to artists. Maybe it's going to the IRS. Maybe it's going to the freight company that just hauled the LE's halfway around the world so they can actually get out of the warehouse and into people's hands? You can't assume that just because the freelancers haven't been paid in full, there's no repayment taking place. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. But with lots of mouths to feed and limited liquid cash, it's foolish to draw any assumptions from the freelancers' situations alone.

Awesome! I look forward to playing.

We've seen doubt coming from the person who was supposed to draw up the plans to pay it back. Now, it's entirely up to the will of Loren L. Coleman to pay it back as he sees fit, according to the public releases.


I might be wrong, but realistically, the woman who came up with the repayment plan was forced out. That doesn't look good. Additionally, Jason Hardy has said that he'd pay all the freelancers instantly, if he could. The fact that he isn't being allowed to really doesn't look good. And, we have multiple partners bailing out on CGL for nonpayment. If the fruit doesn't look good, there's a good chance that it isn't good.

Boy, Cain. Does it take a lot of strength to get that kind of grip on the facts? Because it must take a helluva grip to hold them as tightly as you'd need to in order to twist them in some of the interesting shapes you've created.

After much reflection on this I have concluded what I take away from this thread goes like this.

We are a nation of laws, where the rule of law must be applied regardless of one’s station in life. As such, we have a very refined view of justice and seek it whenever possible.

It appears that an individual/s have violated very basic ethics (although I have no definitive facts to provide one way or the other) and that this individual/s is ‘going to get away without being brought to justice.’

In my life I have seen a great many injustices perpetrated and at the time it looked as if these individuals were getting away with it. I can attest to this though, that the wheel goes round. While not nearly as gratifying as justice swiftly served, that ultimately you get back what you put out there. If you think that this situation does not have profound ramifications and that it will fail to impact the guilty party’s future, well, you just haven’t lived long enough.

If I had to cast the bones or read the tea leaves I would say that ultimately there will be a departure from CGL of the offending party once the ship has been saved. This is a very, very small community and that this sort of violation will haunt every deal that they would seek. I can certainly tell you that going to conventions or trade shows after this mess would be humiliation far beyond what I could withstand. Working with people every single day that know what you did, I would imagine that getting out of bed in the morning to go to work would be utter torture. I think that at some point, they will reach a point where they simply can’t face that sort of unrelenting shame and look towards a fresh start.

Is this justice?
It is neither swift or perfect but trying to make amends and restitution is a start.

Much hay is being made of that only the offending party is going to be in charge of making restitution. However, I believe that Randal is going to be monitoring the situation and while I don’t know him, I do know a friend of his. What I have heard of Randal is that he is an extremely decent man, dedicated and a tireless worker. If my friend gives Randal this sort of glowing recommendation then that is good enough for me.

I'm being as patient as I can, but the amount of distortions, whether willful or accidental, in such a small number of words is impressive. Point by point:

1) The interpretation of the public releases that you continue to rely on is incorrect, as I pointed out earlier. Jennifer was a valuable asset to Catalyst, but plans for moving ahead did not entirely depend on her. A plan has been presented to the owners, as I have pointed out previously. Other people are being brought in to help, as I have pointed out. Nothing in the public releases says it is "entirely up to the will of Loren L. Coleman to pay it back" unless you go with the distortions introduced by Frank Trollman. For more detail, see this previous post by me.

2) It has been asked, repeatedly, the people not speculate on why employees left, as that is a matter between them and Catalyst. Yet you say "the woman who came up with the repayment plan was forced out" and continue the speculation without any grounding but your own assumptions.

3) The fact that you say I want to pay freelancers off, so it doesn't look good that they are not paid off, is a wonderful example of why I might prefer to be stingy with information. What I said was: "Strictly hypothetically speaking, I would like all books moving forward and every single one of them getting in the hands of fans. And of course I'm in favor of paying off all freelancers!" Did you note the "Strictly hypothetically speaking"? I'm saying that is what I would like to do in ideal circumstances, but circumstances are clearly not ideal right now. To try to portray the difference between that hypothetical and reality as evidence of me "not being allowed to" pay people off is a gross distortion of what is happening (and I don't pay people off anyway. I don't handle finances).

I would appreciate my words not being twisted.

Jason H.

You work very hard at making some serious hash out of a couple of statements. Jennifer quit over reasons she hasn't gone into detail on other then saying they were over ethical ones. That could be a wide variety of things including something as simple as unpaid wages, more details then that have not been forthcoming unless you have some wonderful inside track in which case good on ya. In the meantime Jason has said that if he had the ability he would repay everyone right now. Rather then allow for some time given the complexity of the situation at hand, and I assure you anytime an organization has outstanding debts the situation is complex, you have continued to twist every statement given to the absolute breaking point with no pretense of objective thought. Heck a few pages back I'm pretty sure you took your own wild ass guess from a few pages previous and begun using it as part of the rumor mill.

In short I am really starting to question your mental stability on this matter.