Necromancy is still illegal in Shadowrun!

It's more that you bumped a thread from 4 months ago solely to criticize spelling. And the grammar is actually fine, as Sephiroth showed. Hehehe.

We should probably let this die again. Moving this thread to the front page was an unfortunate side effect of my irresistible urge to comment on it.
Also, "replacement and made a cyberzombie" should at least be "replacement, effectively making him a cyberzombie", plus a period to denote the end of one of the two or three thoughts in that sentence.

And yet, people are still able to generally understand what it was trying to say.

You could have, y'know, actually contributed to the discussion at least. Posted some other typo or broken rule you found. Instead of just criticizing grammar and spelling.

I think folks are more bothered by the necroing-to-post-grammar-complaints than the actual grammar problems.



-k

This deconstruction makes me feel warm and fuzzy. I'm moderately sure I wrote that on 3 days of no sleep. Amusingly in the time between that post and now I've had my first piece of writing published.

FYI I am dyslexic maybe I should sig that fact to make people who do this feel mean. Not that I actually care one bit. Tbh I might sig the edited and original post.

Yeah, once I started getting tired, I realized that you might have just been going the long haul without sleep. Why were you up for 3 days though?

I've always pictured the movement power as something like standing on a travelator/conveyor belt. The spirit moves the surface of the respective environment you are traveling on, earth, water, air etc

You yourself are still only moving normally and only need to make control tests based on your normal speed without regard to the moving medium. Just like moving around on the deck of a moving ship.

Conic insomnia hit hits me every spring or so it seems. Now worries though it brightened my day to see that necro.

Broken Rule? Response 1 Commlinks can't use programs. I have a Meta Link. I run Analyse 1. Oh no, that's my processor limit! My Response, and thus System are now zero. As System limits program ratings, my Analyse is now rating 0. Incidentally, who wants to hack my Meta Link? I can only roll 1 die to detect your intrusion! Yay!

From the FAQ

Does a reduction in Response from running more programs then the System rating also result in a reduction in System?

No. The System is limited by the base Response rating; if the processor limit (p.222, SR4A) is reached, the Response is temporarily reduced but the System rating is unaffected.

You can ready (AGI/2) throwing weapons in a simple action, but you can only throw one per simple action. It doesn't matter whether there's a limit to readied throwing weapons or not (in which case you could ready quite a few) since it makes no sense that you can get six throwing knives into your hands, but only throw one in that same amount of time.

Yay! You fixed it! Now I can roll 2 dice to detect intrusion from my Meta Link!

Just don't store your sensitive material on anything you bought from Don't Worry You Can Trust Us, Inc.

I won't. Just my SIN. And cred account. And biometrics.

DWYCTU thanks you for your patronage.

You just keep those creepy technomancers off my files!

actually you can roll 7 dice on the first roll, then 2 for all subsequent rolls.

When someone logs in you get to roll system+firewall. Your Firewall is not actually restricted by your system rating or response. So.. you can have a 6 firewall on a system 1 metalink. Tada, 7 dice.

This just gets better and better.

This is dumpshock.
EVERYTHING can be min/maxed . .

Armoured socks? Yes please.

Split your attack pools and you can now throw multiple thrown weapons. No Different at that point than shooting at multiple targets.

Very good, citizen. Because everybody who stores those on a secured link obviously has something to hide

I'm hiding nothing! Here, I'll broadcast it to you!

This is not RAW AFAIK.

I thought stick n' shock was pretty explicit. Were you arguing about the relative conductivity of materials? I may be wrong about this, but if you're the GM, I think it's supposed to be as easy as "non-ferrous rocks conduct electricity because I say so!"

It is ambiguous, at best... That is all. Sinced Unarmed/Melee Combat can make split attacks, and Ranged Combat can make split attacks, why should Throwing not be able to make split attacks? It is a general option for combat.

Well, Throw Weapon (SR4A, p. 148) is written singular:



So that's one, no more, no less weapon thrown per simple action spent.

All I want for christmas is some new errata that fixes this.

Fire Weapon is also Only Singular (as is an Unarmed Attack)... So your point means very little in the scope of the rules...

Fire Weapon. Again
Throw Weapon. Again.

Ascalaphus had a good point.
Throw Weapon
A character may throw a ready throwing weapon (see Ready Weapon, p.
147) by taking a Simple Action.

You can't get much more clear than singular with no fancy details.
Fire weapon, on the other hand, had provisions for two weapon firing. That's a hefty final nail in a coffin that didn't even need the previous one.

Unarmed combat works the same way (except a Complex Action). Multiple Attacks is an option for combat. If you can do them for Firearms, and Unarmed/Melee Attacks, why would you restrict them from Thrown Weapons? I understand that Archery is Different (Uses a Use Skill Action at our table), because of the mechanics of the weapon. But why, exactly, would you even argue against throwing multiple thrown weapons, when it can obviously be done in real life? There are rules for multiple attacks. Just follow them for the Thrown Weapons.

As I said earlier. It is a bit ambiguous (and very arbitrary), as far as I am concerned. Of course, each table will roll the way it wants, so your mileage will vary.

And a note: I am not Invested in my argument here. Just pointing out the inconsistency. Allowing Multiple attacks through the Split Dice Pool mecahnic is just good practice in my opinion. It will allow those niche builds to have a bit more flexability, and it is not game breaking. It is also self-limiting, as there are not a LOT of ways to increase that after split bonuses for such types of combat.

I think you're arguing that it's fair and reasonable, so it should be allowed.

I'm arguing that we should first recognize that the rules explicitly state that only one weapon may be thrown per simple action.
After that, we can say "screw this the rules make no sense" and do it the house rules way, but for the benefit of people looking for RAW, I think we should either agree on the rules, or bring up something that makes them less clear on this subject.

I.e. the Troll whose Improvised Throwing Weapon of choice is the dwarf hacker. I'd like to see how many of those you can ready with a simple action.

Two if the dwarf took the clone (or evil twin) negative quality from runner's companion. More if he was part of a large batch.

No. They do not explicitly state that. "A character may throw one ready throwing weapon by taking a Simple Action" is explicitly stating what you're saying it's stating, but this statement you state that it's stating is not actually what it is stating. If you extend your logic further, then a PC may only make an Intercept attack against one opponent in a fight, a PC holding two smartguns can only mentally eject the clip from one of them, a PC holding two simple objects can only use one of them per Simple Action, and so on. Is this RAW? As someone said at the beginning of this thread, "no, because that would be silly."

You're supposed to use the rules as written, not the rule as written. Materialization spirits can't technically materialize ever, since Materialization is a physical power, but because there are multiple other rules that assume that spirits CAN materialize, we all just accept it as a typo and ignore it. Similarly, since there are several other rules that set precedent for multiple attacks in combat, you must just accept that the developers are not capable of foreseeing every possible nit-picky interpretation of players and move on as if it DOES explicitly state you can throw multiple weapons at a time.

Just because I'm new, a noob, and REALLY tired, what does "RAW" mean?

Never Mind, I figured it out: Rules As Written.

I told you I was REALLY tired.

Thank you Sephiroth. That was a much better summary than what I have been struggling to put into coherent words. It has been a long day. Migraines and a lack of sleep do little for the cognitive reasoning of my arguments.

Well, duh. Except if we started talking about what made sense instead of the crazy RAW, we would have a thread *called* 'Broken Rules'. And we'd be bored!

There is no way to generally increase the number of attacks only under special circumstances. With firearms (and melee weapons according to optional rules from Arsenal) you need two to get up to twice the amount. With Unarmed Combat you need more than one opponent, you cannot atack the same opponent more than once with a complex action. It is pretty cut and dry that you can only throw two throwing weapons per action phase. Readying more thanthat gives you a benefit of not having to ready them in the next action phase.

Best thing about Throwing Weapons? Improvised ones. Specifically, the Metahuman Body. How many of those can you ready with a Simple Action?

How big is your party?

0.

Tymeus: I'm not saying throwing more weapons would be unreasonable.* I'm just saying that RAW doesn't permit it - and this is the Broken Rules thread.

The ways to get more than the normal amount of attacks are all pretty specific. You can shoot a firearm from each hand with the same simple action - provided they're certain types of guns. You can attack more than once in close combat - but only on multiple opponents, and they must be within 1m of each other.

You can't extend either of those to throwing and still claim it's RAW.




*I firmly believe it would be cinematic (and therefore justified) to throw an entire handful of shuriken. Or playing cards that explode for fire damage on impact (throwing adept with some fiddling...)

Definitely not RAW. I also agree that you *should* be able to throw more weapons with more hands though. It's more difficult, but that's why you split your dice pool. To show that it's more difficult.

It is in the Broken Rules Topic because the Rules do not allow it by default. You have to look at the entirety of the rules to see its useage.

And yes, I like the image of Exploding Cards ala Gambit, but sadly, not available by the rules.

Actually, you could coat your cards in high grade explosives and detonator caps. I don't know how that would play by the rules, but the materials and usability are there.

Heh...

I hesitate to bring this up because I'm not sure if it's really BROKEN per say, but it does hang a huge question mark over other parts of the game.

The Additional Clip modification basically kills any need for machine guns.

IE: P93 Praetor E SMG, costs 850 out of the box and has a 50 round clip. Slap Additional Clip on one and you've got basically a 100 round capacity for 1,700 nuyen. Add the obligatory smartlink and you can, as a free action, switch between the clips. For an extra 500, you can up the weapon's capacity with Extended Clip to 126 rounds. By adding Gas Vent 3, Foregrip, and a Shock Pad, you can bring the weapon up to a recoil compensation of 8.

The total cost of this is 2,700 at an Availably of 11.

With a weapon like that, remind me why I want to even bother with Light or Medium machine guns. Heavy, maybe, but when the uncompensated recoil doubles is factored in....

Thank you. This will go well with my next character.