The section you quoted gives a page reference to the appropriate part of MitS where Ghosts are described in omniscient GM-directed text as spirits, not living dead.

Now, this is Shadowrun, so the page reference is off by two pages—but at least it's two pages into the description of ghosts, so the writer couldn't have looked at the page, thought "there's nothing here, what were they talking about", and moved on.

~J

Uhm, unique enchantments are exactly the opposite direction of foci coming into existence spontanueously. A unique enchantment basically is a storytelling opportunity, requiring mystic shenanigans with an epic feel to them and the aquisition of ingredient in obscure locations. Oh, and they still are dual-natured, not simply knives with upped stats

Sure, you could go the "Nazi mysticism" angle and proclaim that all the experimentation in fact were sophisticated magic rituals. Because let's face it, there's something inherently cool about Wolfenstein-ish Nazi occultism. That would solve some of the mechanic problems, but only aggrevate the other ones:
1.) Massive Nazi magic has never been part of the setting. And given the effects of magic involving killing people (hello Ghost Dance) you'd think somebody should have noticed.
2.) A pre-awakening artifact, from a tradition which is probably beyond toxic on the threat scale. That's some epic item you'd expect to see at the end of the DotA series, complete with an impossible choice who should get it. Not some trivia picked up in a one-shot and then pawned for 10.000.


PS: Something else entirely - Are you guys also seeing very sloooow scrolling speeds and more than just noticable delays before certain elements on a page are displayed? Using Adobe Reader x64 here.

Or they could be, you know, necromantic artifacts that have absolutely no power. I would think that there would be some traditions that would relish the ideas that the bones of the Holocaust Victims hold great power in the right hands. They coulb be, afterall, ritual links if nothing else. And ritual links to some pretty powerful and pissed off spirits (or ghosts if you will, per the text). I



Again, why do these "Necromantic Artifacts" need to have actual power to be a story hook? As a necromancer Path Tradition (Yes, I have that in my game), this would be a Treasure Trove of Artifacts, if for no other reason than the Links they could provide to the Ghosts on site.



Because there are absolutely no weapons (Handheld at that) that can deal with Spirits at all in Game Canon.



Sorry, Not seeing it... There ARE large Cabals of Wizards in game, many of them competing Traditions of Magic. Not sure why you really have such a problem with this at all...

I like the Book. Does it have some Formatting and Editing Problems? Most definitely... Is it a waste of my time and money? Absolutely not.

Tymeaus and Hermit having the same avatar is slightly confusing.





-k

Indeed, Gives me a complex from time to time...

Adobe Reader is crap. Try Foxit Reader which has none of the scrolling problems and delays in certain elements.

See the rules text I quoted. Not exactly a section for in-character rumors


Yes, but they are not called like that. "Cabals of Wizards" IMO is typically run-of-the-mill fantasy lingo, SR uses different terms. And this undertone is precisely why I picked this section as an example: Like many other parts of the book, reads like the author had zero clue about the rules and fluff of the subject at hand.

Maybe I am just not as sensitive about it I guess... In Game (for us at least), there are many "Cabals" we have dealt with... Probably why it does not bother me so much. There are a lot of possible names for such collections of individuals, and we have probably heard them all during game play, dependant upon the views of the individual characters being portrayed.

No worries...

The "feel" of a scenario is a pretty subjective affair I'd say...

TJ,

You do realize that you're rationalizing the section, right? The author posted over on the official forums with a series of answers that were nearly as bad as the published section that brought up the questions. But before that, he made this:



Death energies... ok. No page ref on those. Stolen essence or karma? How? It's more rationalizing, the section just doesn't quite fit.

Stat-wise, it's a quiet vibroblade knife. But fluff-wise it's completely out of the scope of the game. It's stats don't make sense for a magical weapon. It's cost doesn't make sense considering it's construction. It's location and the difficulty to acquire it in relationship to it's stated value is ludicrous. In attempting to help GMs come up with a plot for a game, the author has broken the constancy of the game.

Bad juju isn't the same as Enchanting, and if it is I expect to see the damn rules. Asside for that, If CGL hires a writer to cover a setting like Auschwitz I expect them to understand the established rules that govern the place. If CGL is going to publish that section, I expect them to verify that work is consistent. Double fail here.

In play, chances are you would buy a weapon with the same stats just to go get it. To get it, you have to go into Auschwitz. Why not just go home with the vibroblade? Sure you have to plug it in at night, but no penalty to perception! It's like the major draw for going there is to disrupt the spirits of the place. Something the catholic church was unable to do to any satisfaction. It was also implied by the writer that the players may want to take "spirit bombs" for some such nonsense in. Does it really take an arms dealer to do that when the church was supposed to be maintaining the barrier? Where are the Sylvesterines now? More likely, the writer had no idea when he wrote the section.

It all leads back to a larger issue: The ongoing quality and consistency of the game itself.

I run a Shadowrun game at a local game shop. One of the stipulations is that the games run there need to be canon, so that any new players get a feel for the game as published. How am I supposed to deal with this? What if one of my newer players reads this? What do I tell him? I'm a representative of the store, and the store sells CGL product. I'm not going to lie, but can I point out these inconsistencies? I don't like the position I'm put in by the poor quality of this book. I still run another game on the side but it looks like I'm going to have to stop running at the store and that's bullshit.

Fuck, once this book hits shelves, how do I deal with everyone taking Spell Knack and Slow? There are only so many time you can throw a murdercycle at someone. Wait, weight-wise I'm going to have to make murdertrucks or something...

Fuck

Consider this errata "the spell ends when the caster stops sustaining it or the amount of mass moving in the area of effect exceeds 200 kg per hit on the Spellcasting Test."

This is enough to balance the spell considering its already high drain.

See, I see all of this as a Plot Hook... maybe a badly written one, but a hook nonetheless. Also, I tend to look at such things and make them fit. In my opinion, I would use much of the text as personal opinion... no more right than someone else's opinion in game. Is some of it badly statted out? probably. Is there some ionconsistencies? Maybe. But I take the stuff given, massage it a bit with what I perceive the intent is and then repackage it a bit. Honestly, that has not changed since SR1. Not everything is going to fit as written into any given game.

As for the Death Energies and Imprinting due to proximity... That is what the Metamagic: Psychometry is all about. In my opinion, the psychic scar left by the Nazi Death Camps is quite severe. There SHOULD be ramifications of this in the game, if you are going to use the sites in any capacity. I tend not to use such things, as it tends to make a lot of people uncomfortable. However, I can not fault someone for wanting to portray something like this. As I said in an earlier post, I see a great deal of potential in the "Necromantic Artifacts" presented above. No, there are no mechanics... Yes, it is badly written... But there is great potential in their application in a game. And I, for one, would probably include the Nazi Occultism in my scenario as the core basis for such things if I used them at all. There have been Mana Spikes in the past, and will probably continue to be so. Who is to say that the Camps did not share proximity to such an event during the War? As for the Scalpel itself... Lots of Flavour there, even if it is no better than the Vibro Knife... My Necromancer would love to study it in depth. Could provide many, many adventures in and of itself in my opinion.

What you seem to be saying above is that the writer should have provided everything , including all the answers. I tend to disagree. Where are the Sylvestrines indeed? I would provide that answer in a gmae that I ran, because I do not want some one else's opinion on that. And even if provided, 9 times out of 10, it would likely clash with what I want to do anyways. Yes, the Catholic Church has had issues with Auswitch in the past, and still apparently has these issues. Soem idiot went in and disrupted the whole shooting match... My question would be this. How would you fix it in game? I see a HUGE backlash as the individuals concerned start to become involved. I see opportunity where others see crap. Guess that is just me.

Now, I am not saying the piece is not written poorly, by any means. And yes, there are some inconsistencies. However, I see opportunity in these inconsistencies, rather than travesty.



I do understand your frustration. I would assume that you will deal with the publication of this book like you have with others over the years that you may have had issue with (I am sure that you have had issues with other books, probably even those not produced by the Current Writers/Line Developer). You will judiciously apply whatever logic you use to approve characters and allow things that you allow. Not sure how you will deal with the inconsistencies. I have indicated what I would do, but that may not work for you (or it might, who knows)...

Besides... Why use a Murder Truck? I have never had any difficulties with just plain old firepower and its judicious use, to solve problems in game. No one is totally immune to everything afterall...

We all tailor the game to our own tastes, but seriously, you consider this on par? I've been going back and doing a bit of referencing over the last day and a half and I'm frequently running into the simple difference in presentation that previous books had and War! lacks. I don't expect to agree and implement everything that gets printed, but I shouldn't have to polish turds just keep my table sane. This book actually makes it more difficult to be a Shadowrun GM, and that's just wrong.




Weight issue. I have to throw more weight at the player than they can counter with force. Or think of another way to undermine the spell completely. But along with murdertruck deaths, the players will only suffer so many gas attacks. The question though is: In a game with so much gun-porn as Shadowrun, why make a spell that renders them useless at force 1?

Point Taken...



Must have missed something in the spell... give me a second to reference: Interesting Indeed... It is obviously meant to be a Reverse of Levitate, to some degree, with intreesting side effects such as slowing bullets.

2 Tactics...

1. Do not allow the spell to affect anything without Movement Capabilites... After all, Bullets and Explosive Force do not have any Movement Stats in Shadowrun. Easiest Fix. After all, Falling imparts movement, as does driving a vehicle or running, or whatever. There is no wave propogation movement, nor speed for a Bullet (or any Weapons for that matter).

2. Calculate equivalent Foot Pounds of Energy... and then apply hits to check equivalent weights (After Object Resistance for Unattended Objects of course). Tedious and a waste of time in my opinion.

My Preference would be the First method. It is obviously a difference in the Fluff vs. the Mecahnics of the Spell.

Anyways...

Doesn't work—even if we forget about "down" and all the heavy earth that's frequently in that direction, and we disregard the mass of air, you're still creating a spell with immensely fiddly bookkeeping that can't be used anywhere within AoE of any kind of building or tree or other large object.

~J

To make up a question by the author, "Why would anyone in Aztlan want to kill off all the native Americans? Mexicans kinda like are Native American Nation themselves after all."

Er? That one's stretching, I think—it requires connections that would only come from background knowledge, rather than being explainable by simple ignorance compounded by Dunning-Kruger.

~J

Fair point.

"I didn't know Nazis took over America once. When was that? I totally sense a tie-in to the Nadias story Jason wants me to write up!"

Better?

Also: maps detailing the warzone, though not the front, courtesy of someone who endures the Pegasus forums.

OK, how about this: Final say, PDF Format book: Worth the purchase price?

FUCK NO!

If I had any chance at all, I'd send it back to get my damn money back. Just don't.

That reads as if you'd accept any piece of crap as long as it's published in an offical book. Writers do have to meet certain quality standards, think about it.

It depends on many thinks, for one if you have no use on info about Bogota, then somethink like half the book is totally useless to you.
But the other half has a pretty nice chapter about mercenaries and then there's the game information section containing new rules( i especially like the rules for large and extra large dicepools, as well as the expanded grenade rules) new gear like the cool addition of Battle Rifles, actually working fighter jets(have more then one normal weapon mount), wingsuit, multiple kind of mines and some other nice stuff.

I would say yes and definedly yes if you have use for the Bogota info dump.

I would say yes...

I'd say the PDF is worth it.

There are issues with it. Most of them have been hashed out ad-nausm here. I think that most of them (Auswitz and HP rounds as examples) have been blown totally out of porportion.

Of course your milage may vary.

Not really, I will only buy the stuff that interests me, regardless of whether it is a prize-winning document or not...

That being said, War Interests me... there are a LOT of Shadowrun Books that I do not own, usually due to lack of interest or because I like what I have done better... Personal Choice and all that. Anyways, I like a lot of what is in War, even if some of it needs a bit of work.

Yes, there should be standards, and I am sure that we have beat that dead horse more than enough. After all the complaining (and no one's attempt to do any better, currently all I see is a lot of complaints), the book is still very, very useful in my opinion, even if a few people do not like it...

No Worries though...

Only if you really, deeply care about Bogota. Deep enough to go through over hundred pages worth of it.

Otherwise? Perhaps half the price, for the power creep half.

Speaking of the Auschwitz-dungeon crawl? I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole. If I would decide to use Auschwitz as a setting of a Shadowrun game, it wouldn't deal with necromantic artifacts or some of the other shit that the current setup has. Re-writing the piece in War! to something fitting the setting while still keeping the main idea (dungeon crawl, evil spirits, pricecless artifacts) is impossible imo.

Well, there's mine. I guess somewhere between all those dots you write and confusing spelling in a forum post and pay product, you missed that, so no worries.

Besides, if you pay money for something you have a right to complain if you feel it is of sub-par quality. If you buy a car and find out the engine's missing and the windows fall out on your first drive, that is not a good car, and you don't need to design a better to get a refund and have a right to vehemently complain. There's laws covering that. Where the hell do you take the idea from that you have to write a better War! (not that this would be too hard to do) to have any right to complain anyway?

Indeed, which is why I would never use it as a "Dungeon Crawl" type of setting... Yes, it needs work, but there ar some interesting ideas within the chaff there... even if it will require some work to polish up and present it...

So.... you do agree that the setup as presented in War! is impossible to re-work into something usable?

Beat me to it; just wanted to provide a link to your project.

No.

@Grinder...
No, with enough effort, anything can be made useable... just depends upon how much mork you are willing to put into the effort. Me Personnally? I would take from it what I like and discard the rest. Lot of interesting ideas. Some can work... most will need tweaking to be AT LEAST useable...


As far as you go Hermit...


Because English is your Second language (apparently), I can forgive you some of your spelling mistakes, though you still seem to perpetuate them in almost every post, so you obviously make no effort to actually look for them, much as you accuse others of doing. And I make no apologies for the use of Elipses...

AND, I did not MISS your attempt. Currently, all it is is a bunch of hype, and no substance. Maybe when you have actual substance there, rather than vaporware, I might change my mind. Untill then? Well...



You are right... you have a right to complain, you did indeed pay money for the product. But, in my opinion, you far exceeded that right many pages ago. Everyone here gets it, you are unhappy with the product. You do not have to keep going on about it. There are at least a few others who disagree with you. Your constant hyping of the issue is not going to change that one iota.

How about being a bit more constructive and actually work on the War 2.0 Supplement that you are putting forth (I have read the thread by the way). It would go a long ways to proving that you are much more capable than those who write professionally for a living. Until then, all I hear is useless complaints. Or better yet, how about some constructive assistance in how to actually use what is put in print in the book. There are a LOT of interesting ideas there. Not once have I seen any acknowledgement of that in any of your posts. Rather than being so negative about how everyone is so incompetent in the execution of the product, maybe you can find something worth being positive about. Then again, maybe not... *Sigh*

Anyways. Enjoy your weekend.

Never gonna happen

Keep it civil. No need for postings that are close to personal attacks.

You're the Perfect Customer.

You still don't get it. You really do not understand the difference between a web forum and print product containing spelling errors. I am undecided if this is depressing or amusing.

Ausserdem, mein ('vermutlich') amerikanischer Freund, was heisst hier 'anscheinend'? Naja, du kannst das ja eh sicher nicht verstehen, aber ich wuerde doch gerne mal sehen wie du dich in irgendeiner anderen Sprache schlägst. 'Vermutlich' schlecht. Und deine Beherrschung von Adverbien ist so katastrophal wie bei fast allen Amerikanern (und mit den Verben hast du es ja auch nur bedingt), nur so nebenbei angemerkt, also lehn dich mal besser nicht so weit aus dem Fenster.


Firstly, that is not my duty. I am neither being paid by this (as I hope the authors of this turd are, as they are liable to, no matter the quality of their work) nor do I, the customer, have any obligation to work in my time to make a better product. That is what I paid the producer money for. Secondly, I am neither obliged to sugarcoat my complaints with kind words and whatnot. I can also spread the word about the awfulness of the product - actually, I am morally obliged to to prevent the company ripping other potential customers off with flawed, broken and/or overpriced product.

And you can do nothing about that.


I really, honestly cannot. The closest thing I can say is that a) the artwork's nice, even if placed totally arbitrarily and often in no cohesion with the text it illustrates, and b) the matrix gear up to level 10 is an okay addition I played with as a house rule for some time (our prices were higher though, and it went up to 12). But that's really little bits. the vast majority of the book really is just ... bad. In every way imaginable. Writing, editing, ideas, execution, composition, the way it rapes canon, the way it is internally incoherent. Nothing redeeming about this book.

Shit is shitty, story at 11.

There's a tenancy to trust and stand by official information, to prop it up and rationalize it regardless of it's worth or veracity. People need to get over when it comes to Shadowrun, it's like copyright induced Stockholm Syndrome. This book really isn't as well thought out as some web supplements, and that is a bad thing. CGL should be brought to task for that, not praised for managing to get a subpar PDF together every 4 or 5 months. There are quite a few people who feel that CGL isn't the best company to be continuing with the line, and this is evidence of that.

No one is ever going to make a product that makes everyone happy, but War! is actually a bad thing for the game as a whole.

Finished the book yesterday, cover to cover, so I'm putting out some sort of review, instead of answering to a dozen of different posts in this thread.

War! breaks down the following way : pages 5 to 114 are about Bogota and the ongoing war, page 115 to 126 describes the so-called Global Hotspots, pages 129 to 152 are new rules, pages 153 to 180 are new gear, drones, vehicles and a handful of spells and powers.

BOGOTA

I'm not certainly no big fan of Catalyst work on the last sourcebooks and adventures. I'm pretty sure a lot of people will disagree with me (some reasonably, some other because CGL bashing is
popular these days) but I found the Bogota setting to be good. It has been a long time since I read a location sourcebook and tell myself "this plot/scene/character will be great" that many times (I actually think the last time was reading the 1st edition Seattle sourcebook). Maybe it's because it suits well my gming style.

Flavor-wise, I would have used spanish names a lot more of often, or at least provice translations. The Iraqi metaphor is more or less subtle. In some case, the comparaison with Beirut in 1982 would be more appropriate. I don't know Colombia well enough to say if the local tribes should play a role as strong as the Iraqi tribes do. I still don't get how or why there still are "rich and filthy" type people and students living in Bogota, considering the hellhole the place has become, and it's still not clear to me how the 12 millions of people living in here are fed. There may be some place left untouched by war. But how are we supposed to know, since the books does not feature a single map of Bogota, or the region at large ? And that is my first major complaint.

I can understand CGL has no people available that is able to draw a map. I would then advise them to search for one, quickly.

There is also no detailed timeline of the war, past the triggering event on November 13th, 2072. By the way, the Jackpoint login page says February, 2073, but there are reference to events in April and May of the same year (pages 39 and 53). More freedom to the gamemaster this way I guess.

Another major complaint is the global organization of the book, or lack thereof. I can understand info on Aztlan and Amazonian operations to be spread throughout the book. Not so much for particular detail on say, the neighborhoods controlled by toxic spirits. It would make sense to have it in the "Bogota Neighborhoods chapter", no ? Some things look like plain mistake : the only thing relevant to Bogota culture in the chapter carrying that title is a boxed content about "Important cultural festivals in Bogota". All the rest of the chapter is about the power players in Bogota, plus a box about... tips for rainforest survival ? The Bogota History section chapter is 18 pages long of dense text with only one sub-section. And while discussing how the war started, we get a full page of info on Sangre del Drago tree, with zero relevance to the topic (by the way, how do we got to know about this, since the very point of that event is that the team sent to infiltrate the lab did not make it out ?).
Skimming through this book to find one specific piece of information is going to be a nightmare. without the PDF search function, I would probably not even try.

Still, Bogota appears (to me) as a great "sandbox" for game. Too bad the book only provides one adventure idea related to the conflict, while each of the other hotspots gets a handful. Only 5 more are given which are not location specific.

Following are a few more specific issues. I also posted some errata on the official forum.

- Page 23, the text says the olaya and Andes cartels were "cultivating tempo in and around Bogota". This is not at all in line with Ghost Cartels.

- Page 24. "By May 2072, eleven months after they began the project and six months after the project was scheduled to be completed, Aztlan finally gave up on their plans for finishing the wall."
- Page 51. "When hostilities started to escalate out of control in Bogotá, [Black Star] leadership decided it was the perfect opportunity to help the local citizens protect themselves from Aztlan and Aztechnology aggression and tyranny, and to train them on how to strike back. And so in early 2071, we set up base inside Bogotá."
This means Aztlan started building the wall in June 2071, which was well ahead of any conclusion in the tempo arc. The Black Star was even faster. Still, there is no clue of any escalation prior to the strikes against the Olaya cartel in November 2071.

- Page 31. Frosty mentions the dragons' "inherent ability to alter fate" in-context.

- Page 54. "Normally operating out of (and limiting itself to) the Pacific region, once Tsunami saw MET2000 taking advantage of the escalating violence in Bogotá and the great need for capable mercenaries, it began to move some of its members into that theatre."
- Page 55. "Another deficiency for Tsunami mercenaries is the fact that they are so experienced working in a different part of the world that they tend to draw attention to themselves"
Seems quite contradictory. Besides, Bogota is less than 400 kilometers away from the Pacific Ocean.

- Page 62. Big problem here. The text appears to be, like everything else, written in context and posted by someone on Jackpoint, and commented by other users. So, does this mean that Dezzy Tocanna has been openly exposed on the Matrix as a traitor working for the David cartel. And it doesn't even prompt someone to post a comment ?
Even better, the runner called Angel is bluntly said to have a "magically enhanced sniper riffle". Such a claim should deserve at least three pages of comments from the Jackpoint community...

- Page 68. Having Ares military units working for Aztechnology may make some sort of sense as Aztechnology is playing the US side. But I think it falls short of an explanation, as Ares and Aztechnology have not been exactly the best buddies around during the last twenty years. I can't really picture them uniting against Amazonia. As Hestaby is moving against Sirrurg, she could get the Draco Foundation and Arthur Vogel to support the move. It could be an explanation (and a good plot), but we're not given anything.

- Page 89. The issue with GPS underground is already worked on IRL by the DARPA : search for "Sferics-Based Underground Geopositioning"

- Page 108. "The Capitolio National building is not safe, and large portions of it do not exist."
I guess it should read "no longer exist" ?

- Page 110. "To prevent Aztlan or Aztechnology from complaining to the Corporate Court about Horizon unfairly interfering and influencing the local politics of the region, Horizon promised an objective perspective in its news reports"
Seriously ?

- Page 110. "Established in 2049, a few months after the Veracruz Settlement the Abyss was originally named “The Enlightened,”
Veracruz settlement was signed on March 29, 2048, according to Sixth World Almanac, page 66. So the few months are a minimum of 11, and I still don't get what it has to do with a club opening.

I'd also direct people to the reread the old Corporate Download. Did you know that, back then, Aztechnology wasn't all about blood magic, that blood mages were dwelling in numbers among the corporations. In War!, it's like every mage in the Aztechnology Corporate Security and the Aztlan military is a blood mages. Can't blame it on Catalyst people though, a lot of people think just like them.


GLOBAL HOTSPOTS

As much as I liked the Bogota settings, the global hotspots not. This section completely goes out of the classic SR format, with in-game online posting, commented by the community, and separate game information. As they put it, this section does not go into details or offer bunch of facts. And it leaves you to wonder if the Russian in Marienbad area are just a Vory gang or a Russian military unit.
In Nepal, it suggests there is a real war going on between Saeder-Krupp and Nepal. If so, an open war between a megacorporation and a nation should be some serious matter (also note on page 124, the illo of a Nepalese carrying a Thunderstruck Gauss riffle).

Regarding Poland, and more precisely Auschwitz, each and everyone will have his opinion. Shadowrun is our world, so I'm fine with saying what the place become. On my own, I'd probably never use it, but I'm fine with it. But suggesting the runners should do some underground crawling to get as a reward the magical rusted scalpel of a Nazi scientist is just past where I draw the line.

Albuquerque has nothing to do in this book. If it's not to provide some facts, what's the point of a hotspot of regular shadowrunning. You know, shadowrunning, the thing all the other Shadowrun books in the past twenty years save a handful, have been about ? We're told runs in Albuquerque are related to the war in South America, but not why.

Nothing about Caracas. Nothing about Desert wars.


GAME INFORMATION

Not much to say about this part. Stats for military equipment may comes in hand one day. I'm not rule-savvy enough to detect what is really game-breaking is not. More specifically, what is more game-breaking that what we already have. Only the Slow spell sure looks like one. And I agree summing arrows DV for simultaneous blows goes completely against the logic of the system.

- Pages 130 and 172. Ares and CAS have an Abdullah-class submarine. Irony intended I guess.

- Page 136. One noteworthy rule change : Composure test are called when the Fear power is used.

- Page 173. With 4000 complements and 80 aircrafts, the YNT Shibanojuki class is on part with the Enterprise and Nimitz class aircraft carrier. Those do not dwarf the largest cargo vessel nowadays, quite a few are much bigger.

- Page 178. Too bad for the Recharge spell that there is actually no rule nor any indication to estimate how long SR equipment can run on a fully battery, save for the laser weapons.

That's the plan!

We've taken great pains not to contradict canon (except for some ABSURDITIES in Ghost Cartels), and so far it's become a pretty bad-assed setting, all while having a South American noir feel to it.

Edit so I can add to the conversation:

I'm somewhat angry at the lack of information on Caracas, honestly. I realize I'm slightly biased, with my campaign being in the same region, but I was sincerely hoping for some updated information, especially in light of the Azzie strikes in and around the city under the pretense of snuffing out tempo operations. This action was supposed to really kick-start the war, insofar as information in other sources (Ghost Cartels, 6WA) goes.

And not only was the information not there, but the canon developments (and yes, sad to say this stuff is now all canon) are just laughable and inconsistant (thematically and factually) with the rest of the setting.

This makes me rather sad. I took excessive pains to keep my campaign from contradicting canon, but at this point I'm seriously thinking about divorcing it from what is established and going my own way. It's sad that it had to come to this, but honestly, I had some high hopes for War!. Now it seems like the aftermath of all that writing talent leaving Catalyst after the financial fiasco is finally coming home to roost.

Nay.
The gear section and are good overall...sure there's some munchkin potential and motherhood statements, which book doesn't have those. But 50 pages are not worth paying for 180.

A yes from me.

already bought it...I'd say I'm 90% happy with the product and 10% not thrilled. Yeah, there is some stuff I don't care for,but I guess I don't expect perfection from a hobby product. Hell, back in the old days I paid more than 15 bucks for a game that showed up in the mail run off on a mimeograph machine. 200 pages of purple ink on shit paper. (damn, wish I could remember what it was called). horrible game, no art. Typo's gallore, , and practically unplayable as I recall. Was I disappointed? Sure. Did it ruin my day? No, we just went back to playing AD+D (original edition)

so, yeah, I like it. Guess it comes down to personal expectations...

I'll end with a quote from a friend who's a Dominatrix in her spare time...

"Some like it soft and some like hard, but no matter what your thing, we're all just a bunch of sick pervs..."*grin*

Walk in Beauty,
Kanis

Hey, shadowkids. It has been some little while. As much as I've been trying to distance myself from CGL and Shadowrun under its current direction, I would like to step in for just a moment and provide a bit of perspective on War! and its development.

Just in the interest of full disclosure, I'm not an unbiased observer. Spoiler alert on the rest of the links in this paragraph, you have been warned. The current crop of freelancers and I have our differences, and one of the last things I did before Jason asked for me to be booted from the freelancing pool is voice my opinion on War! and the upcoming plot.

War! didn't begin with SR line developer Jason M. Hardy, or War! writers Aaron Pavao, David Hill, Filamena Young, and Michael Wich. It started out as a proposal by former SR line dev Peter "Synner" Taylor, and that book - which was to be titled Dogs of War, but which had to be renamed because White Wolf published their own book of the same title before War! was finished - was a very different animal. Really, it was supposed to be a massive update and re-imagining of the Fields of Fire sourcebook, detailing miltech, military hotspots, and how to run a mercenary campaign.

Dogs of War was never made, and Peter Taylor didn't last as line dev. In the interim, as the production schedule slowed to a crawl, the focus and concept of the book that was to be War! changed substantially. By the time I left, Bogotá had taken a prominent place in the book - the argument being that it would present an alternative campaign style (mercenaries instead of shadowrunners) and a ready-made setting to accommodate that style (war-torn Bogotá). There was a great deal of argument about this among freelancers - I personally did not feel Bogotá was exactly a mercenary hotspot, among other reasons.

Really, I had almost nothing to do with War! before I left. I remember reviewing some of the early drafts about Bogotá (I believe I impolitely referred to a lot of it as simply "shit," which wasn't terribly productive), and I might have spoken to Aaron once or twice on mechanics - but that's it. I was out before the final drafts were complete. So, I can't say exactly what went on in the editorial process, but given my experience under the current developer, I can guess.

Freelancers are paid to write, not edit or fact-check someone else's work. In the past, freelancers who had the time and the devotion would go over the drafts before or after layout, looking for the errors that creep in. Catching typos and silly mistakes is a labor of love, generally thankless and always unpaid. I can't tell you definitively if that did or did not happen with War!, but given the state of the document - and again, my experience with the SR line developer - I would be very surprised if this is the case.

Please understand, I'm not making a qualitative judgment about the writing. Whatever my personal feelings towards David Hill, I think he and Filamena Young are fine and technically proficient writers. I have worked in the past with Aaron on SR projects, and while we may well argue and butt heads on many things, I respect his ability to write and work. Michael Wich's work I am not generally familiar with, but I doubt he would be responsible for the excess of typographical and language errors found throughout the book. The presence of these errors is a quantitative measure of the book's editorial stage, and by that standard War! was very poorly edited indeed.

Before I left, the SR line developer had already frustrated several freelancers with his general unwillingness to incorporate suggested corrections. There were many corrections to problems in the Sixth World Almanac and Corporate Guide that freelancers had noted and posted corrections to weeks before the final draft was sent to the printers which were completely ignored, and which found their way into the final products. I personally wasted several days trying to put in corrected stats for PACKS, after errors had unintentionally been introduced during the proofing stage.

Jason was more willing to knowingly print a flawed document than to incorporate the changes someone else more familiar with the material had worked out. That is, has been, and will be the continuing standard for Shadowrun while he is SR line developer. Despite his laudable claims to produce higher quality products for Shadowrun, the books published under his direction - Corporate Guide, Sixth World Almanac, and now War! - have been some of the sloppiest and error-laden productions ever released for Shadowrun to date. I can say this with some authority, because I can reach down any SR book from the last twenty years and compare it directly, and I have.

Believe it or not, I'm not here to villify or insult Jason. The position of SR line developer opens a person up to a great deal of honest criticism. The quality of the line reflects directly on the line developer, the quality of the products is a direct measurement of their skills and standards. Jason has claimed he wants to produce the best Shadowrun books he can, for as long as they will let him, and he is under pressure to perform from the fans, from the freelancers, and last but not least his own bosses, Randall Bills and Loren Coleman, who want to see product out the door.

The long and the short of it is, however, that people will buy War! Nothing I, or Frank Trollman, or Critias, or anyone else on the internet says or does will do much to affect PDF sales. I doubt anything we say will affect hardcopy sales, when and if they occur, at all. Because as poorly as the book is edited, as bad as the plotline is, as crap as the actual writing and art and mechanics may be - and those last four are qualitative assessments - people are going to buy War!. It has new guns, toys, spells, adept powers, vehicles, missiles, Thor shots. Overpowered? All the better. Shadowrun as a brand is still strong enough that people will buy it just because it is an official release, just because it has more and better gear than their books at home. People want good Shadowrun products, but in the absence of that they'll take whatever they can get.

I don't say that to insult everyone that likes War!, who actually enjoys the Bogotá writeup or thinks the bit with the carnivorous trees is inspired and works perfectly in the metaplot. Fuck anyone that tells you what you can or cannot enjoy. Even War!'s most dark and dreary detractors admit there are gems in the rough in this book, and I know anyone that enjoys RPGs for any length of time has read and sometimes used a book considered "crap" or "ridiculous" by the self-appointed elites and know-it-alls of the 'net. You can have my Dragon Magic signed by Brom when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.

By the same token, that does not mean you need to defend War! or its contents. This advice I will extend especially to War!'s writers, though I doubt most of them need it or would heed it coming from me. People will make of War! what they will. The last thing this book needs is for someone to come in and act as an apologist for its faults, or try to brush away many of the very real errors made in the book. One thing every writer has to learn at some point is that a work has to stand, or fall, on its own merits and flaws. If you have to try and explain or cover your ass, then you've failed to communicate something essential to the audience. That happens. Those besides the authors of the book, keep in mind that people who don't like the book are not attacking you just because you happen to like it. Don't take criticism of the book to be criticism of yourself, and don't start flaming people or arguing with them about it. It is as unlikely they will change your opinion as it is you will change theirs.

Finally (thanks for reading this far! Home stretch!), if anyone is still considering buying this book: read everything, decide whether or not the book sounds like something you want, and then make your decision. I'll be honest: the book has problems. I don't like it, I don't like where Shadowrun is going, and I'm not going to follow it there - because War! is a taste of the products that are to come. If you buy War!, than like it or not you're endorsing its vision of Shadowrun, of what SR is going to be. If you're cool with that, it's your money and your game. Either way, good night, and Ghost bless.

Yep, the closest thing you get would the Japanese. And they where more asshole imperialists (likely helped along by them having nationalized xenophobia since forever).

@Ancient History:
I don't mean this question as a veiled jab of your subjective analysis of the Shadowrun line, I am merely curious: You say you don't like where the Shadowrun line is going. At which point in time, or with which release, did you start to see the line going towards a direction you didn't like?

You may be right... I do not think that it is a bad thing to look for the silver lining in a less than stellar piece of work. Afterall, it really does me no good to constantly complain about something once I have laid out the money. I feel justified in making a complaint, Once, but then I must really move along and make the best of things...

Anyways...
Have a great Weekend...

No, I do get the differences, I just do not beat them continuously until there is nothing left.
You are right, I am really wasting my time with you in the end, aren't I? That is okay though, I still hold out some hope for you...

Thanks Ancient History... Greatly appreciate your views...
Glad to see you still ocassionally still surf the Forums...

Franky goes to War!/Bogota
i'd post it to the official SR4 board myself, but eh . .

All these links, and I can't open any of them (yet) because I'm at work. Damn.