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Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Dec 20 2010, 09:49 PM) *
On the other hand, you could inject a little extra hilarity into everything by changing the item to Wirth's pen (and keeping the current stats).

A fountain pen that needs to be filled with blood? Hm.

That would work for those stats: It doesn't actually cut people/things itself. But any of those lines drawn with blood open themselves up to gruesome cuts.
QUOTE (Ryu @ Dec 20 2010, 10:00 PM) *
I reject the idea of wringing a Nazi artefact from the hand of Jewish ghosts, to the extent of not seeing the need for discussion.

That's not even the real issue – as it was pointed out, there are "necromantic artifacts" in the real sense of the word in Shadowrun:
Ghosts sometimes have chains, objects significant to the person – now imbued by the hidden life power of the ghost. You can use those to summon and bind ghosts like free spirits.

Basically, the plot seed suggest the characters go around looting the possessions of camp victims after shooting their ghosts – to then sell those ghosts into slavery.
Stahlseele
And then it writes A LIST.
hermit
QUOTE
Basically, the plot seed suggest the characters go around looting the possessions of camp victims after shooting their ghosts – to then sell those ghosts into slavery.

This keeps getting better and better! though that's probably unintentional because it requires more than tangential knowledge of the setting and it's rules mechanics.
Doc Chase
Were it me running this, I would have humanitarian groups running in to get these artifacts from the spirits in order to properly put the ghosts to final rest.

The idea of a survival horror game where a 'runner team has to fend off a legion of undead while a cabal of mages works a mass banishment/cleansing spell to drop the background count would be kinda neat.
Rotbart van Dainig
Except the Sylvestrians were around since 2035 and did not manage to do that – hence the spirit barrier.
hermit
Unlike this shit from War, that would not be tasteless. Maybe the guys running it are the sylvestrines, together with some Rabbis and a bunch of catholic-afflicted carebear people?
sabs
And where are the Sylvestrians now? A religious order is going to let some Hack Sorceror put a crack in their Spirit Barrier without doing anything about it?
hermit
See my idea. smile.gif

The whole guy from Japan and his cabal of mages could just be dropped because it sucks.
sabs
well, in War 2.0 DSF Style! I just think we don't have any mention of Auschwitz at all smile.gif
hermit
No. Why should we. It's maybe a site worth mentioning in a Cursed Places book, but as related to war as Santa's workshop.
Ryu
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Dec 20 2010, 10:12 PM) *
Basically, the plot seed suggest the characters go around looting the possessions of camp victims after shooting their ghosts – to then sell those ghosts into slavery.

It doesn´t, even if it can be used that way. It is IMO not needed to go there if one merely wants to end up in no-good territory. If the whole story does not raise Nazi regime associations for you, you will simply not be offended.
Doc Chase
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Dec 20 2010, 10:42 PM) *
Except the Sylvestrians were around since 2035 and did not manage to do that – hence the spirit barrier.


What if they did it as a stalling tactic?

They need to find the artifact that would be the focus for the ritual. They can't send people in, as everyone who does so dies horribly, in true horror movie fashion. They seal off the area and head to the books to do research - if they can narrow down what they think is the central piece of the puzzle and its last known location, then they can risk the magical oomph to go behind the shield and cleanse the area.

Years pass. Sylvestrines scour the earth, being called away on other tasks from time to time, but a tight-knit group continues their search. The occasional group continues to attempt to breach the shield, to no avail.

Finally, 2073 - The results are definitive. It's the pen that signed the orders to create the horror that Auchwitz became, and it was located in Argentina in a collector's display. A Sylvestrine team retreives the pen via Shadowrunner, and takes it into the camp to begin the cleansing. At the same time, Rene Belloq a talislegger and a cabal of mages dispels the shield and disrupts the ritual, freeing the dead and killing the ritual magicians. Among the slain Sylvestrines is their head researcher and some of their most powerful mages. The researcher's untested assistant, a magician in her own right - has to gather together a team of shadowrunners with mundane and magical talent to avoid Belloq rival treasure-hunting crews who want the artifact for their own nefarious, profit-driven purposes and restart the ritual to finally put the tortured ghosts of the past to rest.
hermit
It still has nil to do with War (the whole point of the book), but yes, that run sounds like it works.
Doc Chase
QUOTE (hermit @ Dec 20 2010, 11:06 PM) *
It still has nil to do with War (the whole point of the book), but yes, that run sounds like it works.


Yeah, I know. I just work with what I got. It was the best way I really had to me to make that section palatable.
hermit
It's essentially a total rewrite using only the very basic idea. Also, if played hardball, it is instant death, unless a troupe of Rabbis comes to hold the angry spirits at bay.

Who to use for rivals? Other, eviler catholics? APEC? Mormons?
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (hermit @ Dec 20 2010, 06:01 PM) *
It's pretty arid, but last summer's average was around 28 degrees, since we got a couple very continental years now. Peaks regularily are around 36° to 40°. Point is, though, this thing is an oven and there is no mechanism to counter that. I trust in Brazil, AC is a rather common thing, like in SE Asia, China and Hawaii? If not, oh my god how can you people live there. How.


Yes, we have AC everywhere. Although some nights you can survive with an oscillating fan. But to answer your question, we don't live, we manage the heat grinbig.gif

QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Dec 20 2010, 07:02 PM) *
What if they did it as a stalling tactic?

They need to find the artifact that would be the focus for the ritual. They can't send people in, as everyone who does so dies horribly, in true horror movie fashion. They seal off the area and head to the books to do research - if they can narrow down what they think is the central piece of the puzzle and its last known location, then they can risk the magical oomph to go behind the shield and cleanse the area.

Years pass. Sylvestrines scour the earth, being called away on other tasks from time to time, but a tight-knit group continues their search. The occasional group continues to attempt to breach the shield, to no avail.

Finally, 2073 - The results are definitive. It's the pen that signed the orders to create the horror that Auchwitz became, and it was located in Argentina in a collector's display. A Sylvestrine team retreives the pen via Shadowrunner, and takes it into the camp to begin the cleansing. At the same time, Rene Belloq a talislegger and a cabal of mages dispels the shield and disrupts the ritual, freeing the dead and killing the ritual magicians. Among the slain Sylvestrines is their head researcher and some of their most powerful mages. The researcher's untested assistant, a magician in her own right - has to gather together a team of shadowrunners with mundane and magical talent to avoid Belloq rival treasure-hunting crews who want the artifact for their own nefarious, profit-driven purposes and restart the ritual to finally put the tortured ghosts of the past to rest.


Hey, can I steal... er, borrow your idea? This would make an awesome arc ending for a campaign.
kzt
Is it fair to say that whoever did the whole neo-nazi stuff knows about as much about the nazi's as they do about Nepal, given that the Aktion Reinhardt camps are apparently never mentioned?
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (hermit @ Dec 20 2010, 07:08 PM) *
It's essentially a total rewrite using only the very basic idea. Also, if played hardball, it is instant death, unless a troupe of Rabbis comes to hold the angry spirits at bay.

Who to use for rivals? Other, eviler catholics? APEC? Mormons?


Shedim? Shadow Spirits?
hermit
QUOTE
Is it fair to say that whoever did the whole neo-nazi stuff knows about as much about the nazi's as they do about Nepal, given that the Aktion Reinhardt camps are apparently never mentioned?

Probably right, yes.
Doc Chase
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Dec 20 2010, 10:15 PM) *
Hey, can I steal... er, borrow your idea? This would make an awesome arc ending for a campaign.


You may, on the contingency that you tell us how it goes. wink.gif

You'll note what I crossed out twice in my rewrite. Simply put, who else wants items that can be responsible for background counts, that make an area so...toxic to the world at large?

That being said, there are any of a number of people.

The rabbis want to put their people to rest. The Vatican wishes to see the artifact disappear into their stores, preferably under another ward so that it may be studied. The private collector wants his pen back. The Azzies might try to use it in some manner. Neo-Nazis might try to recover it as a symbol of their movement.

The ritual has the power to control the restless dead of Auchwitz. As its stroke directed their final movements, it is inextricably bound to them, and they to it. The proper ritual can harness the dead and they will move to the pen's order. Write the order on paper, and the ghosts have no choice. Sign an assassination order, and the ghosts of haunted camp guards will carry your foe off to die of fear. Sign a transfer, and the ghosts will haunt the address you place.

Sign a release, and the restless dead are free to move on.

Imagine at the end, a research assistant pouring every last drop of mana she can into the pen as she sits at the infamous desk, surrounded by guards as a Mexican standoff occurs between rival teams. If anyone moves, the bloodshed starts anew and new souls will come to rest among the restless dead of Auchwitz. Outside, the victims and guards all gather, staring at the office door with hungry eyes.

Waiting.
hermit
QUOTE
Imagine at the end, a research assistant pouring every last drop of mana she can into the pen as she sits at the infamous desk, surrounded by guards as a Mexican standoff occurs between rival teams. If anyone moves, the bloodshed starts anew and new souls will come to rest among the restless dead of Auchwitz. Outside, the victims and guards all gather, staring at the office door with hungry eyes.

Waiting.

Turning shit into art. Bravo.
Stahlseele
scary <.<
hermit
Magic.
Doc Chase
Could always throw in a master-class Shedim that inhabits the body of a long-dead teenaged girl that was killed in the camps, and is steadily working on opening a portal for the rest of his brethren to follow and create a foothold.

Food for thought. Mmmyes, mmmyes.
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (sabs @ Dec 20 2010, 08:05 PM) *
I firmly believe that the push for the EU is all about making sure that Germany is so economically intertwined with the rest of Europe that WWII can never happen again.


Yes, when West-Germany was achieving semi-independence around 1950, France realized they could never out-industrialize Germany, so they opted for economic interweaving as a way to guarantee peace instead. Which worked far better than any peacekeeping tactic they'd tried in the previous 800+ years...

Anyway, now I'm wondering what it'd do to Shadowrun to write a solid necromantic extension: guidelines for when a person will leave behind a ghost, and what they can do, and how mages can handle them.
It would be kinda like integrating parts of Orpheus with SR. Doable I think; in Orpheus you'll occasionally get hired to spectrally spy on people, or interrogate a dead corporate drone to get the password to his company's mainframe.
hobgoblin
i have read the claim that EU works in much the same way as how Bismarck formed the Germany we (more or less) know today.
Tzeentch
-- I haven't read the book, but I do have to say I found the Trollman review absolutely hilarious. smile.gif
Raiki
I've skimmed the book, and that review is still hilarious.

For what it's worth, the only real complaint I have at the moment (other than the massive ammount of spelling errors) is that none of the new gear/drones/vehicles have pictures. Considering my group is currently running in Seattle, and has little reason to ever go to Bogota, the main draw of this book for me was the toys. The fact that I can't actually SEE any of them is a real bummer.

Raw stats (pun intended) just don't quite do it for me.




~R~
otakusensei
QUOTE (Raiki @ Dec 20 2010, 08:59 PM) *
I've skimmed the book, and that review is still hilarious.

For what it's worth, the only real complaint I have at the moment (other than the massive ammount of spelling errors) is that none of the new gear/drones/vehicles have pictures. Considering my group is currently running in Seattle, and has little reason to ever go to Bogota, the main draw of this book for me was the toys. The fact that I can't actually SEE any of them is a real bummer.

Raw stats (pun intended) just don't quite do it for me.




~R~


Not to mention the raw stats don't make a lot of sense. I expect a bit of power creep, but War! is kinda nuts. I dig the Smartstaff, but a lot of the high end weapons and the grenade rules need to be rolled back.
hobgoblin
If your the GM, have a chat with your players. This is not some MMO or FPS where everything is set in stone by the devs!

Don't like something in the book, don't use it. Simple as that.
Raiki
QUOTE (otakusensei @ Dec 20 2010, 09:20 PM) *
Not to mention the raw stats don't make a lot of sense. I expect a bit of power creep, but War! is kinda nuts. I dig the Smartstaff, but a lot of the high end weapons and the grenade rules need to be rolled back.



What really got me was the ammunition. They've officially made APDS, Flechette, Explosive, and Ex-Ex ammo obsolete. I mean, what sniper worth his salt isn't going to try to put an anti-tank round through your face instead of APDS? And any self respecting gunbunny is going to get their favorite weapon chambered for High Power ammo as soon as they can reliably obtain it(though at least they had the sense to not allow HP-HV weapons[unless you just buy an HVAR and mod it for HP ammo]). And don't even get me started on armor piercing flechette ammo; That one just kinda makes me die a little inside. dead.gif

Who cares about the new guns? With all this new ammo, you can turn a YSF into a Troll-Killing-Machine-Of-Death! Though I will have to admit that the first player that tries to buy an Ares Shockbeam is going to suffer from Suddon Onset Orbital Bovine Displacement Syndrome.




~R~
otakusensei
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Dec 20 2010, 09:33 PM) *
If your the GM, have a chat with your players. This is not some MMO or FPS where everything is set in stone by the devs!

Don't like something in the book, don't use it. Simple as that.

Yeah, but how much time should I spend discussing this or that exploit with my players vs. playing the game? Should I write up a veto list? I've been running this game for many years, and one of the things I've liked about 4th is that I have spent less time dealing with the consistency of the mechanics and more time just playing. Sure there are some problems, and rules that don't make sense, but if you are aware of the limitations of this or that technique you can quickly address issues and return to play. After all, I ran a 2nd-3rd game with major net book influence and we only ended all life on Earth once. This book offers a boat load of canon (pun intended) issues. The scale isn't as bad, but it doesn't even remotely fit in flavor, scale or mechanics with what came before.
otakusensei
QUOTE (Raiki @ Dec 20 2010, 10:14 PM) *
What really got me was the ammunition. They've officially made APDS, Flechette, Explosive, and Ex-Ex ammo obsolete. I mean, what sniper worth his salt isn't going to try to put an anti-tank round through your face instead of APDS? And any self respecting gunbunny is going to get their favorite weapon chambered for High Power ammo as soon as they can reliably obtain it(though at least they had the sense to not allow HP-HV weapons[unless you just buy an HVAR and mod it for HP ammo]). And don't even get me started on armor piercing flechette ammo; That one just kinda makes me die a little inside. dead.gif

Who cares about the new guns? With all this new ammo, you can turn a YSF into a Troll-Killing-Machine-Of-Death! Though I will have to admit that the first player that tries to buy an Ares Shockbeam is going to suffer from Suddon Onset Orbital Bovine Displacement Syndrome.




~R~

Hear, Hear.

Though, outside of sniping, AV rounds are a better choice. I was just taken a back by why they thought they needed one when they had the other. All agreed on the rest though. Even if mages are immune to firearms now...
Raiki
QUOTE (otakusensei @ Dec 20 2010, 10:29 PM) *
Hear, Hear.

Though, outside of sniping, AV rounds are a better choice. I was just taken a back by why they thought they needed one when they had the other. All agreed on the rest though. Even if mages are immune to firearms now...



I thought AV rounds were are AP -4 (-6 against vehicles). How is that not as good as a flat -6 against everything (from AT ammo)?


And yes...the slow spell is retarded.

Edit: Clarified after I checked the relevant source books.



~R~
hobgoblin
*facepalm*
otakusensei
QUOTE (Raiki @ Dec 20 2010, 10:32 PM) *
I thought AV rounds were are AP -4 (-6 against vehicles). How is that not as good as a flat -6 against everything (from AT ammo)?


And yes...the slow spell is retarded.

Edit: Clarified after I checked the relevant source books.



~R~

Cost/benefit. The extra -2 is better, but AV is cheaper and easier to come by. Plus they work in more weapons.. There also tends to be a lot of drones at my table, and not everyone is willing to die for their night security job; so shooting people is sort of rare.
Tzeentch
-- What are the costs of APDS vs. AT ammo? I suspect that it's expensive for "game balance" but in a book where you can buy orbital artillery I wonder smile.gif
otakusensei
QUOTE (Tzeentch @ Dec 20 2010, 11:23 PM) *
-- What are the costs of APDS vs. AT ammo? I suspect that it's expensive for "game balance" but in a book where you can buy orbital artillery I wonder smile.gif

Not that different honestly. You have to be a nitpicker, or have a CFO for a boss, to worry about the difference.
Raiki
QUOTE (otakusensei @ Dec 20 2010, 11:03 PM) *
Cost/benefit. The extra -2 is better, but AV is cheaper and easier to come by. Plus they work in more weapons.. There also tends to be a lot of drones at my table, and not everyone is willing to die for their night security job; so shooting people is sort of rare.



Ahhh, well given those circumstances I can see why the difference would be negligible.

And to Tzeentch:

AV Ammo: 18F, 120 nuyen.gif per 10 shots.
AT Ammo: 22F, 170 nuyen.gif per 10 shots.

A bit harder to get, a bit more expensive...but really nothing too drastic.


...And yes, it is in fact possible that I neglected to read the part about Sniper Rifles, HMGs, and Assault Cannons only for AT ammo... spin.gif


~R~



hermit
QUOTE
or interrogate a dead corporate drone to get the password to his company's mainframe.

... and corps regularily interrogate dead corp drones to find out what happened. As do mobsters to find out who geeked their made men. And anyone else a shadowrunner might shoot will be interrogated by the cops. It's kinda like hindsight-powered minority report. The birth of super CSI. The end of shadowrunning. Just like with teleportation, there is a REASON that necromancy is one of the few absolute taboos in Shadowrun.

So, doable yes, just like teleportation (actually, that's a metamagical technique called planeswalking that you could just import from Earthdawn). But it would break the game. Into very tiny little pieces.

QUOTE
Anyway, now I'm wondering what it'd do to Shadowrun to write a solid necromantic extension: guidelines for when a person will leave behind a ghost, and what they can do, and how mages can handle them.

I dunno. that's a plot instrument, and should remain one. Such rules are just as necessary as those for statting nukes, thur shots or extinction event asteroid impacts are.

QUOTE
i have read the claim that EU works in much the same way as how Bismarck formed the Germany we (more or less) know today.

Not quite yet, but we're getting there. Still need a unified military and economical policies and something resembling an actual head of state for the hidden but already present government.

QUOTE
And yes...the slow spell is retarded.

It's the new emotitoy.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (hermit @ Dec 21 2010, 08:46 AM) *
The birth of super CSI.

That's what Psychometry is for.

And that's much better than asking witnesses (no matter if dead or alive), only to find out that the faces (if any) of the people they saw belong to the recently deceased.
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Dec 21 2010, 03:30 AM) *
i have read the claim that EU works in much the same way as how Bismarck formed the Germany we (more or less) know today.


I've also read lots of comparisons to Charlemagne, and to the Burgundian Netherlands and the later Dutch Republic. Honestly, trying to demonstrate that the EU is just national history on a bigger scale is just a fad nyahnyah.gif

QUOTE (hermit @ Dec 21 2010, 09:46 AM) *
... and corps regularily interrogate dead corp drones to find out what happened. As do mobsters to find out who geeked their made men. And anyone else a shadowrunner might shoot will be interrogated by the cops. It's kinda like hindsight-powered minority report. The birth of super CSI. The end of shadowrunning. Just like with teleportation, there is a REASON that necromancy is one of the few absolute taboos in Shadowrun.


There's no need to get hysterical. I wasn't saying that everyone who dies leaves a ghost, or that every ghost is coherent and able to remember what happened, or that every ghost can be compelled to be honest.

Anyway, the real end of shadowrunning is omnipresent cameras coupled with facial, voice and gait recognition. But so far that hasn't stopped the game.

QUOTE (hermit @ Dec 21 2010, 09:46 AM) *
I dunno. that's a plot instrument, and should remain one. Such rules are just as necessary as those for statting nukes, Thor shots or extinction event asteroid impacts are.


On the other hand, ghosts are a staple of fantasy/horror stories. I find them to be annoyingly absent from Shadowrun.

Introducing necromancy would change the game, but I'm not sure it would break it. It would actually make ancestor worship and voodoo traditions make much, much more sense. It also opens up new avenues of dystopia with corporate slavery beyond the grave.
hermit
QUOTE
There's no need to get hysterical. I wasn't saying that everyone who dies leaves a ghost, or that every ghost is coherent and able to remember what happened, or that every ghost can be compelled to be honest.

Ah, so you meant pure Phantom Creation Rules? I took "solid necromantic extension" as, well, necromancy. D&D stuff. Wake up the dead and talk to them and make them serve you and all that.

QUOTE
On the other hand, ghosts are a staple of fantasy/horror stories. I find them to be annoyingly absent from Shadowrun.

Introducing necromancy would change the game, but I'm not sure it would break it. It would actually make ancestor worship and voodoo traditions make much, much more sense. It also opens up new avenues of dystopia with corporate slavery beyond the grave.

I find the Walking Dead annoyingly common these days, and ghosts on every corner equally generic. YMMV.

Classic D&D Necromancy would break the in-game economy, the in-game assumption that runners can somehow slip through the cracks (Psychometry is a rare metatechnique that should probably be followed up by rolling for PTSD, if everyone can raise the dead it'S a different picture altogether) and force one interpretation of the in-game ancestor spirits on everyone instead of keeping things vague enough they can be fit to many play styles.

You DO have apparitions, ghosts and whatnot in Shadowrun. You have possession of vessels, which can be dead bodies. You can decide for yourself that apparitions and ancestor spirits really ARE the dead (hell, I do in my games; however, they're hard to predict and harder to get useful information from). It is already there if you want it, it's just not easy. And it's a GM instrument, which is just fine with me.
Ascalaphus
I realize that having yet another vector of investigation would make it harder to cover your tracks as a runner. Of course, runners could also turn it on their pursuers; stuff an NPC guard with misinformation and kill him. When the corporation interrogates him, he'll lead them in the wrong direction. Or runners could be interrogating the corpses of those random gangers that attacked them, to determine who sent them.

I think that having necromancy doesn't mean that the PCs can't slip through the cracks anymore. Whether they could do so was GM fiat all along. There is so much CCTV and data mining in SR4, that if the GM sets Big Brother to "Realistic Mode", the PCs don't stand any chance at all.

Just like Pink Mohawk requires a GM to be willing to relax technological investigation, the same thing applies to ghosts.
* Maybe not everyone leaves a ghost; only someone with an exceptional ongoing concern in life does.
* Maybe slack-willed wageslaves don't leave very potent ghosts. A mage could easily Banish it before his pursuers get their hands on it.
* Ghosts don't necessarily stay where they died. They might go somewhere out of corp jurisdiction to haunt loved ones.

I'm thinking ghosts might be a sort of subclass of Free Spirits. Any mage can try to Banish them. They typically appear at a Force related to the deceased's Edge, Magic, Willpower, Street Cred, Essence and so forth. There'd be a metamagic, Necromancy, to be able to Summon or Bind them. They might have Fetters instead of a Formula, which would be harder to reproduce.

Hmm. It might be interesting to play a ghost as a shadowrunner actually.
hermit
Just use the Free Spirit rules then and call it ghost? Maybe allow whatever powers an apparition has.

Personally, I don't see much on the win side if we introduce rules for becoming a ghost. Either these rules are so restrictive that ghosts don't become any more common than they already are, or we add yet another layer of problems on top of a game that, if played consequently, is closing in on Paranoia in deadliness already.

As for your ghost shadowrunner: Who would hire him? And sicne ghosts in SR are canonically bound to specific areas, or tasks, I imagine this runner to be quite ... limited in what he can do.
Kot
As for the Ghost matter, everyone who has a Name can be summoned with it. The Sixth Age mages don't know that yet, so, no ghost of Captain Chaos (if he's dead) can be summoned by a special ritual to teach the team's hacker new tricks. If Ancient's idea of high magic would be implemented, then it would probably work, along with Pattern and Names theory. So, maybe spirits of the dead (Namegiver Spirits in ED) can be summoned. But no one knows how yet, and those few cases are just like Auschwitz - a result of something BIG, even if it's genocide.

@Hermit: He could use a vessel, or move with his remains(why do we carry that skull around?).
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (hermit @ Dec 21 2010, 09:32 AM) *
As for your ghost shadowrunner: Who would hire him? And sicne ghosts in SR are canonically bound to specific areas, or tasks, I imagine this runner to be quite ... limited in what he can do.

Maybe he's bound to the Renraku Arcology? wink.gif

~J
Grinder
QUOTE (Kot @ Dec 21 2010, 03:52 PM) *
(why do we carry that skull around?).


Say hell to Bob. grinbig.gif
Dr.Rockso
QUOTE (Kot @ Dec 21 2010, 09:52 AM) *
As for the Ghost matter, everyone who has a Name can be summoned with it. The Sixth Age mages don't know that yet, so, no ghost of Captain Chaos (if he's dead) can be summoned by a special ritual to teach the team's hacker new tricks. If Ancient's idea of high magic would be implemented, then it would probably work, along with Pattern and Names theory. So, maybe spirits of the dead (Namegiver Spirits in ED) can be summoned. But no one knows how yet, and those few cases are just like Auschwitz - a result of something BIG, even if it's genocide.

@Hermit: He could use a vessel, or move with his remains(why do we carry that skull around?).


I seem to recall CC being 'revived' from an optical disk(saved by JackBNimble). So CC's e-ghost could totally teach the team's hacker new tricks, should you somehow convince him to.

@Kot: This ghost runner better be named Morte.
Stahlseele
Remind me again, why anyone would use the ghost instead of the free spirit thingie?
Only reason i could think of would be for a backstory, but nothing else . .
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