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Stahlseele
No.
If the enemy has something and i can't pick it up from his dead body, then worlds will burn.

In PnP RPG even more so than in CRPG
bannockburn
I'm confused. You really took that seriously?
Stahlseele
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jun 11 2013, 09:19 PM) *
I'm confused. You really took that seriously?

No Sarcasm-Tag, no Smileys.
Kinda hard to tell via Text.
bannockburn
Well, I took your comment on Shemhazai's tongue in cheek statement that NPCs might get other gear than PCs (at least that's how I interpreted it) as being a joke. Which is why I made one in the same vein. Misunderstandings happen, I guess.
Stahlseele
i did not even figure his statement to have been tongue in cheek <.<
Cain

QUOTE (thorya @ Jun 11 2013, 07:13 AM) *
I don't actually understand what you mean by this. The way I'm reading it is: All damage has increased by 3-4, so every shot is potentially deadly. And you conclude that if every shot is potentially deadly already, a 5-7 increase in damage is no longer a reward because it no longer raises a shot from not life threatening to deadly? Because that 5-7 doesn't make them more dead. So damage codes should be low so that only crack shots have a chance of killing someone by shooting them?

But if success is killing them and you've killed them, how are limits keeping you from being rewarded?

Because you still can't kill people with a hold out, and possibly other weapons as well.

For example, if you walk up to somebody, stick a gun to the back of their head, and pull the trigger, they should die. However, as demonstrated, they still get a reaction test to try and squirm out of the way, so if they get 5 successes on a Dodge versus your Limit 4 gun, you can't hit them. Worse, even if they don't dodge, the holdout can only do a max of 10P. Assuming even *one* success on a resistance roll, and Joe Average Human will still be conscious and fighting.

Additionally, have you ever seen players cheer when they make a spectacular roll? There's much high-fiving, back-slapping, shouts of joy all around. Now, imagine what happens when you tell them they don't get to use that roll-- it was wasted. How do you think most players would feel?

In my experience, taking successes away from players is a bad move. It's not fun, garners complaints, and occasionally damn near causes table flips.
Patrick Goodman
QUOTE (bonehead @ Jun 11 2013, 01:57 PM) *
If people didn't form and post strong opinions based on incomplete data, the internet would be a very empty place. wink.gif

You say that like it's a bad thing.
StealthSigma
QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 11 2013, 02:50 PM) *
Everyone's developing strong opinions based on incomplete data.


Do you expect us to buy the book based on incomplete data?

What has been done so far is the data that has been released is not favorable to some of us. That is the data that the publisher has decided to make public and making data public in the case of a TTRPG is marketing.
Epicedion
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Jun 11 2013, 02:59 PM) *
Do you expect us to buy the book based on incomplete data?

What has been done so far is the data that has been released is not favorable to some of us. That is the data that the publisher has decided to make public and making data public in the case of a TTRPG is marketing.


Right. This initial marketing thrust is losing some of the key "most likely to buy" demographic, and I don't see that as unwarranted, since it's largely based on a disagreement of design elements. Meanwhile, I'm quite excited over the prerelease D&D stuff and am moving toward a tentative buy, contrary to my opinions of the previous edition. I'm just a consumer here, so I don't know what anyone really expects.
Cain
Yeah, the open playtest for D&D Next has generated a lot of buzz. They report 120,000 active playtesters, which means 120,000 books sold when the game comes out. The closed, draconian NDA model has some serious disadvantages to it, especially in the age of the internet, where rumors spread quickly and can tank a product before it sees the light of day.
Critias
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Jun 11 2013, 02:59 PM) *
Do you expect us to buy the book based on incomplete data?

What has been done so far is the data that has been released is not favorable to some of us. That is the data that the publisher has decided to make public and making data public in the case of a TTRPG is marketing.

Yes, I get that. I do. Trust me. But when folks are talking about how terrible it is that smartlinks don't do X any more, when they haven't read the chapter that has the rules for smartlinks, I'm gonna try and just remind people that they haven't read the rules for smartlinks, y'know?

I understand how this might be taken as me 100% defending every page of this product as game publication perfection, but it'd be great if you didn't take it that way, because that's frankly not what I'm saying. I addressed a single, very specific concern, by reminding folks that their concern may be hasty, in an attempt to be maybe a little "wait and see" comforting. You clearly took the comment another way, but in this instance I'd just ask you to not do so.
bonehead
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Jun 11 2013, 02:59 PM) *
Do you expect us to buy the book based on incomplete data?



Aren't most book, movie, and video game previews also like this? You either buy based on incomplete data or you wait for reviews from those that did.
Cain
We're not blaming you, Critias. I appreciate what you're doing.

But the failure here is that the marketing folk aren't giving us enough information to decide if we want to buy the book... and the incomplete information they're showing us isn't generating a lot of positive feedback. Unless we see something with some serious Wow factor, the marketing campaign might just backfire, as people who would otherwise have bought the book get turned off by the internet rumors.
Cain
QUOTE (bonehead @ Jun 11 2013, 02:07 PM) *
Aren't most book, movie, and video game previews also like this? You either buy based on incomplete data or you wait for reviews from those that did.

Normally, for movie previews, they show you the best and most impressive stuff. They've given up on spoilers for the most part, and they rely on wowing you.

SR5, so far, has shown us the worst parts (limits) and hasn't wowed anyone to my knowledge.
Shemhazai
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 11 2013, 03:11 PM) *
one simple thing:
if the enemy can have it and i can't take it from the enemy, then i ain't playing.
if the GM tries to play one uppmanship with me, he'd better hand over the goods when i manage to take them.

If you get the opportunity to loot the body of a boss villain, and you know what you're looking for, sure, take it.
RHat
Of note, by the way: I don't think the Ares Predator is even supposed to be top of the line in the first place - I seem to recall, for example, seeing the Government 2066 somewhere, with a higher limit than the Predator without its Smartlink.
Cheops
QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 11 2013, 09:26 PM) *
Yeah, the open playtest for D&D Next has generated a lot of buzz. They report 120,000 active playtesters, which means 120,000 books sold when the game comes out. The closed, draconian NDA model has some serious disadvantages to it, especially in the age of the internet, where rumors spread quickly and can tank a product before it sees the light of day.


Not correct. Not all 5e playtesters will be purchasing the book -- me for starters.
thorya
QUOTE (RHat @ Jun 11 2013, 04:23 PM) *
Of note, by the way: I don't think the Ares Predator is even supposed to be top of the line in the first place - I seem to recall, for example, seeing the Government 2066 somewhere, with a higher limit than the Predator without its Smartlink.


You Aztechnology stooge. All Ares products are top of the line. Some are just more top of the line than others.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 11 2013, 02:12 PM) *
Normally, for movie previews, they show you the best and most impressive stuff. They've given up on spoilers for the most part, and they rely on wowing you.

SR5, so far, has shown us the worst parts (limits) and hasn't wowed anyone to my knowledge.


Well, if the Previews ARE the HIGHLIGHTS, well, nuff said, I think...
If they are not, then the failure is on the Marketing Department's shoulders...
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Cheops @ Jun 11 2013, 02:32 PM) *
Not correct. Not all 5e playtesters will be purchasing the book -- me for starters.


And me... DnD5 failed as spectacularly as DnD4 did in my opinion. Will be sticking with my 3.5 Edition. *shrug*
Epicedion
QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 11 2013, 05:12 PM) *
Normally, for movie previews, they show you the best and most impressive stuff. They've given up on spoilers for the most part, and they rely on wowing you.

SR5, so far, has shown us the worst parts (limits) and hasn't wowed anyone to my knowledge.


Also, things being mostly like SR4 isn't going to wow anyone. And if limits ard the solution to a primary issue with 4, I don't have a lot of faith in the rest of the system. I don't get a sense that the game is being developed in a good direction. If there's something that's truly amazing and preconception-shattering coming up I'm going to be helluva surprised. This of course makes me sad because Shadowrun is one of my favorite games.
Bigity
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 11 2013, 02:01 PM) *
GM:"You see a BBEG wielding a +4Limit Assault Shotgun! I'd be very scared if i were you!"
Sam:"DIBS!"
Rigger:"Di- damn it!"


As long as they aren't sporting 'Assless Chaps of Exposure +1' I'm ok with that.
CeeJay
QUOTE (Critias @ Jun 11 2013, 08:50 PM) *
Until you've read everything a smartlink does, please don't make up your mind that they're terrible. wink.gif

I'm glad to hear that. smile.gif

And I don't think that smartlinks are terrible by the way. It's just that they are (from what we've seen so far at least) working mechanically differently from what I expect from a smartlink (make you hit more often instead of make your hits possibly better).
Actually, that's just part of my concerns with the statement that in SR5 gear won't give so many dicepool modifiers any more (again from what I've heard and seen so far). Instead we get gear that modifies limits. And mechanically that means that gear no longer has any influence on your actual success chance on success and threshold tests.
I'm pretty sure, I'm not the only one who is bothered by that. Mind you, I'm still hoping that some crucial information about how gear works is still missing and I will definitely have a look at the whole book when it's finally released.

That's why I really appreciate your efforts here to discuss with us about the pieces of information that have been released. smile.gif

-CJ
Umidori
QUOTE (Shemhazai @ Jun 11 2013, 02:18 PM) *
If you get the opportunity to loot the body of a boss villain, and you know what you're looking for, sure, take it.

This is why the best NPC weapons are the ones it would be impractical for the Runners to make off with.

A big bad shooting at you with a high-tech prototype shotgun sporting a unique enchantment? Yeah, that's getting looted.

Same big bad instead shooting at you with a heavy weapon built into a military gunship? Unless the runners feel pretty darn confident in their ability to a) hack/take control of the gunship, b) have the skills to fly it, c) escape with it, d) clean it of tags and trackers, e) get it to a secure place, f) successfully keep it hidden, g) refuel it, h) rearm it, i) repair it, j) reuse or k) retail it, and l) live to tell the tale? They're gonna willingly leave it behind.

~Umi
Cain
QUOTE (Umidori @ Jun 12 2013, 12:21 AM) *
This is why the best NPC weapons are the ones it would be impractical for the Runners to make off with.

A big bad shooting at you with a high-tech prototype shotgun sporting a unique enchantment? Yeah, that's getting looted.

Same big bad instead shooting at you with a heavy weapon built into a military gunship? Unless the runners feel pretty darn confident in their ability to a) hack/take control of the gunship, b) have the skills to fly it, c) escape with it, d) clean it of tags and trackers, e) get it to a secure place, f) successfully keep it hidden, g) refuel it, h) rearm it, i) repair it, j) reuse or k) retail it, and l) live to tell the tale? They're gonna willingly leave it behind.

~Umi

Or clever enough to figure a way to bypass all of that. Like, for example, unscrewing the thing from the gunship.

The best NPC weapons are the ones that aren't worth looting, only slightly better than what the PC's are already using. Then, they won't bother.
sk8bcn
QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 11 2013, 11:09 PM) *
We're not blaming you, Critias. I appreciate what you're doing.

But the failure here is that the marketing folk aren't giving us enough information to decide if we want to buy the book... and the incomplete information they're showing us isn't generating a lot of positive feedback. Unless we see something with some serious Wow factor, the marketing campaign might just backfire, as people who would otherwise have bought the book get turned off by the internet rumors.


But one fact to consider is that dumpshock fans<>most customers.

I remember all the SR3 vs SR4 debates. In the end, SR4 was a success.

I don't think that was is written here is representative for the SR community.
Cain
QUOTE (sk8bcn @ Jun 12 2013, 12:02 AM) *
But one fact to consider is that dumpshock fans<>most customers.

I remember all the SR3 vs SR4 debates. In the end, SR4 was a success.

I don't think that was is written here is representative for the SR community.

No, but we're the most hardcore. Many of us who didn't like SR4 bought it anyway, and most Dumpshockers own every book. Then SR4.5 came out, and many of us bought the new books. And to be honest, much of what changed in SR4.5 were things that fans on Dumpshock complained long and hard about.

Now, if you need a comparison: D&D 4e was a financial success. According to what I've heard, it was pulling in $40 million or so in revenue. However, they alienated a lot of older players, and they're trying to woo them back with Next. Even though they made a lot of money, they want even more. CGL and Shadowrun should aim to follow this model-- they should try and appeal to more fans, instead of alienating old ones.
sk8bcn
QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 12 2013, 10:31 AM) *
No, but we're the most hardcore. Many of us who didn't like SR4 bought it anyway, and most Dumpshockers own every book. Then SR4.5 came out, and many of us bought the new books. And to be honest, much of what changed in SR4.5 were things that fans on Dumpshock complained long and hard about.

Now, if you need a comparison: D&D 4e was a financial success. According to what I've heard, it was pulling in $40 million or so in revenue. However, they alienated a lot of older players, and they're trying to woo them back with Next. Even though they made a lot of money, they want even more. CGL and Shadowrun should aim to follow this model-- they should try and appeal to more fans, instead of alienating old ones.


I have over 200 SR books myself and I plane on completing the full SR 4 collection soon too. So I belong to that hardcore fanbase. But I also know that I don't represent the lambda SR player.


About DD4 and DD Next, I imagine that DD4 generated money through it's miniature gamestyle but such a model couldn't carry on generating money over a new edition (DD4 players already have minis).
StealthSigma
QUOTE (Umidori @ Jun 12 2013, 03:21 AM) *
This is why the best NPC weapons are the ones it would be impractical for the Runners to make off with.

A big bad shooting at you with a high-tech prototype shotgun sporting a unique enchantment? Yeah, that's getting looted.

Same big bad instead shooting at you with a heavy weapon built into a military gunship? Unless the runners feel pretty darn confident in their ability to a) hack/take control of the gunship, b) have the skills to fly it, c) escape with it, d) clean it of tags and trackers, e) get it to a secure place, f) successfully keep it hidden, g) refuel it, h) rearm it, i) repair it, j) reuse or k) retail it, and l) live to tell the tale? They're gonna willingly leave it behind.

~Umi


Anything you can't do, Kane can do better.
Cain
QUOTE (sk8bcn @ Jun 12 2013, 01:52 AM) *
I have over 200 SR books myself and I plane on completing the full SR 4 collection soon too. So I belong to that hardcore fanbase. But I also know that I don't represent the lambda SR player.


About DD4 and DD Next, I imagine that DD4 generated money through it's miniature gamestyle but such a model couldn't carry on generating money over a new edition (DD4 players already have minis).

No one might represent the "average" gamer, but deliberately alienating the hardcore fan base is a poor design strategy.

About D&D4e, it wasn't the miniatures but the DDI subscriptions that raked in the cash.
binarywraith
QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 12 2013, 07:36 AM) *
No one might represent the "average" gamer, but deliberately alienating the hardcore fan base is a poor design strategy.


Especially when, to judge from the Shadowrun Returns kickstarter, the hardcore fanbase has money and is not afraid to hurl it delightedly at products that cater to them.
Stahlseele
Remember:
The Hardcore Fans are in their 30's and as nerds usually have paying Jobs as well.
Epicedion
QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 12 2013, 08:36 AM) *
No one might represent the "average" gamer, but deliberately alienating the hardcore fan base is a poor design strategy.

About D&D4e, it wasn't the miniatures but the DDI subscriptions that raked in the cash.


Presumably all the assorted paraphenalia, like the decks of power cards, contributed as well. SR5's primary purpose is to sell about 2-3 books to the curious player, and maybe half a dozen on top of that to the hardcore gamer over the next few years. They could take a DDI bent, but there's always the risk of the player-base resenting a subscription model.
Not of this World
QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 12 2013, 06:36 AM) *
No one might represent the "average" gamer, but deliberately alienating the hardcore fan base is a poor design strategy.


The hardcore was already alienated once with 4th edition. I remember you were there with me making the arguments, but the vast majority of those other names are long gone. Still 4th edition found its own market and survived. I see 5th edition really as a halfway mark (3.5) trying to appeal to a lot of the old Shadowrun players who might back Shadowrun Returns but wouldn't touch 4th edition RPG or Shadowrun Online at all. So 5th edition isn't trying to alienate that fanbase, it is trying to recover it. Because as Shadowrun Returns shows you can appeal to both groups and it is lucrative to do so.
TheOneRonin
QUOTE (RHat @ Jun 1 2013, 05:43 PM) *
On the whole melee/ranged thing: It is a proven fact that a knife beats a pistol inside 21 feet. Additionally, while it only takes 1 well placed bullet to kill a person, it also only takes one well placed stab to kill a person. In fact, because of the tendency of non-hollow point rounds to produce "through and through" wounds versus the tendency of blades (depending in part on sharpness and serration) to tear, knives can actually produce more serious and difficult to treat wounds.



I apologize for coming late to the party, but I've seen this bit of data making the rounds, and it needs some clarification.

The scenario RHat is referring to is known as the 21' foot rule in Law Enforcement circles. The premise is actually that an armed attacker (generally will a knife or other street-common melee weapon) who is within 21' of a police officer can generally close the gap and stab/strike said offer before he can draw and fire his weapon. This assumption is based on several caveats:

A.) The officer does not yet have his weapon drawn. If he does, the attacker will be a pin-cushion before he gets close enough to strike.
B.) The remains stationary. Moving is actually one of the defenses against this sort of scenario...specifically moving in a clockwise or counterclockwise arc away from the attacker.
C.) The attacker has to cross flat, unobstructed terrain, and only has to move in a straight line to reach the officer.

The final bit to this is that given the above, yes, the melee assailant will likely be able to stab said officer, but does NOT automatically win the fight. In most cases Mr. Ninja, after inserting said blade in the torso of said officer, will promptly be shot to pieces at VERY close range, seeing as how it's hard to miss, even with a knife sticking in your belly.
Bigity
It also should be said that knife wounds almost always take a long time to kill someone.
CanRay
QUOTE (Bigity @ Jun 12 2013, 09:16 PM) *
It also should be said that knife wounds almost always take a long time to kill someone.
Unless shock gets them first. (Luckily, I know how to deal with shock, as it almost got me in the accident!).
TheOneRonin
QUOTE (Bigity @ Jun 12 2013, 09:16 PM) *
It also should be said that knife wounds almost always take a long time to kill someone.


Outside of CNS damage, bullet wounds tend to take a while to kill people too. In fact, the main thing that kills you is the blood loss.

Even after complete destruction of the heart, the body contains enough blood to keep a person conscious for about 10 seconds. Think about it...that's 3 full combat turns in Shadowrun.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Bigity @ Jun 12 2013, 10:16 PM) *
It also should be said that knife wounds almost always take a long time to kill someone.


Most wounds take a long time to kill unlss they hit a vital location.
tasti man LH
Nevermind that the knife in question could kill you instantly depending on where you stab and how much penetration the blade gets.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need to get about 3 inches of penetration in the chest area to get a guaranteed fatal wound?
Bigity
Assuming you aren't stabbing down and glancing off a rib or something I guess.

Bottom line, any kind of wound sucks, but in almost all situations, a firearm is better. It's why they replaced swords and lances after all.
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (tasti man LH @ Jun 12 2013, 11:17 PM) *
Nevermind that the knife in question could kill you instantly depending on where you stab and how much penetration the blade gets.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need to get about 3 inches of penetration in the chest area to get a guaranteed fatal wound?


If you go for the chest that is probably right, but with a rib cage its not the best target. We have a ton of arteries on the surface, knives frequently do better as slashing weapons.
CanRay
The quickest way to a man's heart is in and under the Celiac plexus and then moving with an upward motion.
Cain
QUOTE (Not of this World @ Jun 12 2013, 06:24 PM) *
The hardcore was already alienated once with 4th edition. I remember you were there with me making the arguments, but the vast majority of those other names are long gone. Still 4th edition found its own market and survived. I see 5th edition really as a halfway mark (3.5) trying to appeal to a lot of the old Shadowrun players who might back Shadowrun Returns but wouldn't touch 4th edition RPG or Shadowrun Online at all. So 5th edition isn't trying to alienate that fanbase, it is trying to recover it. Because as Shadowrun Returns shows you can appeal to both groups and it is lucrative to do so.

I see them trying to do so (as opposed to thumbing their noses in our faces, a la SR4), but I also don't see them succeeding. They haven't managed to wow us with new and fun rules and mechanics, and even with some favorite elements back (the Priority table) they haven't shown that there's any good implementation (no mundane Human can have an Edge of less than 5, for example).
sk8bcn
QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 12 2013, 03:36 PM) *
No one might represent the "average" gamer, but deliberately alienating the hardcore fan base is a poor design strategy.


Hey, wait. That's your perception of the situation.

We can say we belong both to the fanbase.

You already know that you hate the dice limit system. And you voice it.
I am positively inclined toward this system. But I can't voice it as loud as I still wait what the result would be.


It has yet to be proven that their idea will alienate the fan-base. I'm far from beeing convinced of that.
Larsine
QUOTE (Cain @ Jun 13 2013, 09:13 AM) *
(no mundane Human can have an Edge of less than 5, for example).

That would be "No mundane Human Player Character needs to have an edge of less than 5".

1) You don't have to choose priority D fro mundane humans, although it would be stupid not to do so.
2) Non-player characters are not created by the Character Generation rules.
Temperance
I tentatively like what I see about limits. I don't see it as fodder for "Shadowrun is ruined forever!" Its a rule easily ignored from what we see with the previews, and for me it adds a certain flavor to the verisimilitude. (As much as can be said in a system with MAGIC!) When it comes to weapon/tool limits, I do see the problem of a the best marksman in the world using a crap gun and being limited by the gun more than he should. On the other hand, it's also a common enough trope that a master of his craft can still do well even with crap and shine with the right tools. (The Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon stick fight comes to mind.) As long as it's balanced well and there are means around it when it becomes necessary, I don't see it as much of an issue.

Character limits I am a bit more concerned about. The basics of the formula don't sit right with me, considering everything it applies to. But again, I guess we'll see. And I must have missed it, but I didn't see how personal limits interact with the tool using limits. IE: Do you take worst of your personal physical limits or the gun's limit with shooting someone? Or do you take the better?

In regards to the "offending the hardcore customer", I consider myself casual hardcore. I tend not to pick apart my mechanics unless glaring items crop up (adepts and bioware come to mind), but I tend to buy lots of SR books. I started with SR2, picked up SR3 & SR4 when they came out, and I'll pick up SR5 when it releases. More depending on how much I like it. The 3.x to 4e D&D didn't bother me much, since I liked the jump. Though I can see why others didn't. The advertising was borderline offensive as it mocked people who liked the older style of play. Next is failing just as bad, because despite the promised inclusion, the line dev basically said, "Everyone except the 4e crowd."

Yes, in both cases, winning over the old crowd is good. Keeping the current fans is also good. Attracting new fans is great. (New blood means new creative viewpoints that you may not have had before.) Striking a good balance between change, keeping/attracting old fans, and gaining new ones is the best option. Unlike Next, SR5 seems to be attempting to cleave to that balance. I think it's too soon to be saying, "ruined forever" and "crap mechanics" when we don't even have a full picture. It's easy to see part of a picture an get a false impression of the overall scene. Heck, I've see innocent pictures that when cropped, look X rated. See the full picture and it becomes G rated.

My current stance on all of it: Wait and see how it shakes out in play and how the line develops. Worst case scenario, I wasted $35 due to Amazon's pre-order guarantee and a couple hours with friends. Hanging out with my friends trying something new? Oh, the horror. sarcastic.gif

I am not sure which forum thread I picked this up from, but I think it applies: "We'll see. Also the boy and the zen master." (No, I haven't seen the movie it's taken from.)

That all said, I do appreciate folks' dissection of the rules. It gives me additional stuff to keep an eye on when I do try it in play. So for that, I thank you.

-Temperance
StealthSigma
QUOTE (Temperance @ Jun 13 2013, 08:08 AM) *
I tentatively like what I see about limits. I don't see it as fodder for "Shadowrun is ruined forever!" Its a rule easily ignored from what we see with the previews, and for me it adds a certain flavor to the verisimilitude.


I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. Gear has been balanced and designed with the limits system in place. Ignoring limits means there will be gear that is useless and more importantly since weapons have an accuracy stat which damage is probably balanced around, throws the weapons wildly out of whack. There is no ignoring limits without need to significantly redo gear.
Mäx
QUOTE (Larsine @ Jun 13 2013, 11:37 AM) *
That would be "No mundane Human Player Character needs to have an edge of less than 5".

1) You don't have to choose priority D fro mundane humans, although it would be stupid not to do so.

If you don't then you will have even higher edge, how is that in anyway relevant.
Patrick Goodman
You know, Max, you're not REQUIRED to spend those Special Attribute points.

I'm the guy who made the formal proposal to go back to priorities. If you like them...you're welcome. If you hate them, I'm sorry; you can castigate me all you want. (To be fair, there was general support for the idea, and it had to get past a lot of people, but I'm the poor sap who got that ball officially rolling.)

I didn't expect quite the priority table we got, but I was hella impressed when it hit us for initial review. There's a lot of math that went into making it as robust as it is; in theory, at least, all the columns at any given level are worth approximately the same karma (all the A priorities are worth about X, all the B priorities are worth around Y, etc). I think it's pretty cool, and it offers a lot of possibilities that priorities in SR1-SR3 didn't give you.
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