Nothing I had to do with, then. I wrote "Sleeping With the Enemy" and one piece of shadowtalk toward the end.

Great chapter btw.

Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Seven words that make every Shadowrunner sweat; "Boy, Renraku sure has been quiet lately."

(Found this comis strip about a week, week and a half ago.)
http://allthingsd.com/files/2013/02/googlestore640.jpg
(Appropriate, I think!)

Yes, very much so.

Makes me think of Horizon, but yes, very "Megacorp" Feel there.

I don't think thousand-years old hyperintelligent magical reptiles are capable of being altruistic. Reptiles in general aren't known for it. From what I understand, Dunkelzahn's actions were a bet at establishing human tech as the tool to fight the Horrors when they next come, and he wasn't all too subtle about pushing the metahumanity that way both when alive and after his death. Now, if anything, Golden Snout's usage of metahumans as servants combines perfectly with this approach (well, his and every other Great except for the radicals previously discussed), while Orange Queen's apparent idea of equal treatment hardly does.

Actually, crocodiles are, to a point; they protect their young.

Also, dragons are more like dinosaurs, which puts them between birds and reptiles; and some species of birds are well documented for altruistic behavior.

Dragons also sapient. To relate them to reptiles would be akin to relating us to all mammals. Including naked mole rats and hedgehogs and cows. It's an extremely broad characterization, that as hermit points out, isn't quite accurate.

Dunk did alot for Dragon/Metahuman relations. Ever since he got on the scene the debate on weither he was honest about it, has persisted. Which now, is the exact same debate for Hestaby. "Does she really want better Dragon/Metahuman relations, or is it an act for a long game scheme"

That's canon for the record, before someone argues otherwise.

Dragons protect their young as well, but that and treating metahumans as equals are a long shot apart.

That's a different matter. But they can be altruistic amongst each other. Lofwyr stopped Kaltenstein from getting himself killed once, for instance, even if he didn't have to and it probably flew in the face of dragon impulses and instincts. Kalt now owes him big time, of course.

Sounds like Lofwyr to do something like that so he would owe him big time

Yes, this.

Has anyone ideas/wishes what should happen with JackPoint in 5E?



So who should be in and who not in your opinion? And which new guys (either by name if you know one or function/knowledge/personality) do you want to see.

About the new threat

Ok, with Bull, Slammo and Glitch automatically in...

Netcat, Dev/Grrl, Kane, Frosty, Hard Exit, Kam, Fianchetto, Kay St. Irregular, Man of Many Names, Arete, Plan 9 (( but it's hinted he might be infected, so if so, no)), Sunshine, Wyrm Watcher, 2XL, Smiling Bandit, Pyramid Watcher, Butch, Orbital DK, Rigger-X, Turbo Bunny, Puck, Kat o' nine tails, Rifleman, Glasswalker, Sounder, Picador,Hannabelle,(( but her inclusion could be problematic))

I'd want them in, just off the top of my head.

Clockwork I'd want out, but the thing is, I want someone to kill him to take him out.



Well in Emergence, they said straight up that while people might be afraid of the "I'll just copy myself" AI reproduction, something in their uniquic creation prevents that from being so. I.E. all the free born AI are basicly some sort of random mutation that cannot, at that time, replicate themselves in that fashion.

I say keep the younger ones and kill off the older ones. Sorry, but Bull and Fastjack have had a long enough life, and it's time for them to go.

I actually like Bull taking over. I'd question SlammO a bit, I'd have said Netcat over him but he is said to be skilled inspite of his annoyancefactor.

Bull's cool and all, but maybe it's time for him to be let go.

Slamm-Zero! by the way. Never forget the hyphen, zero, or exclamation mark. That's his username.

Slamm-0! is high on the annoyance factor, but he's an exceptional computer expert for his age (remember, he's only in his mid-20s) and a second-generation Shadowrunner. Yes, he's the primary example of a Manchild, but has proven responsible enough to be a single father and still provide the Shadowrunning services that keep a roof over their heads and food-like substances on the table. Away from the annoying online character, he's quite good at what he does.

Another, RL example, would be... Well... Me. If folks just knew me from the forums, you'd never think I was that serious a person. Hell, I come off as a manchild I bet. In truth, I'm far more mature than I should be for my age (and always have been), and can be trusted with children to babysit. With, um, some provisions, I admit.

Thanks for more nightmares...

I would like to point out, for the moment, that Bull (the Missions coordinator) was not responsible for Bull (the best ork decker you've never met) being in the triumvirate. He actually fought it, as I recall. I can't remember if that decision came from the top, or from someone's pitch, but it wasn't Bull's idea.

Didn't think it was, myself. I was just using him as an example.

Lets get rid of the limited shadow posters completely.

...absolutely goddamn not.

Slamm0!'s not really a single father though is he? Netcat is still around, they're still 'together', an she's still in lil Green eyed, red haired, elf babies life.

Did you mean "House Dad"?

She doesn't seem to spend a lot of time at home. "House Dad" might be more accurate, however, yes.

Slamm-0! is a tad older than that, having broken 30 a bit ago. He just *seems* younger. Maybe some responsibility will grow him up. Then again, it might make him bitter. Who knows?

Of the three, Slamm-0! is the best coder and decker... not FastJack good, but a reasonable fill-in. Glitch is the hardware expert, not as good at code as Slammers is, nor as fast, but his gear is topnotch and he can do server repairs, upgrades, and so on. Bull's the calm head in between the two that smooths things out and gets everyone on the same page. He might be a hiccup behind the times, but he's the glue that binds things together.

Yes, it takes the trhee of them to do FastJack's job. He was that good.

Seems I've guessed almost all teased developments from the hidden fictions..

The book is really good, few parts gave me creeps (in a good way) while reading, and that's a lot. The events are, well, epic, for the lack of better term. Some seem to may as a bit of a U-turn on previous books, but I liked how a lot of things tied up. Of the new chapters, not teased in the hidden fictions, I really liked the japancorp one. My group disagrees with me, but to me cyberpunk is synonymous with japancorps, and their recession (which is only logical considering real world economics) was a sad trend for me. Now they are back in business, and I'm a happy panda!

The first thumb up is for the whole Central/South America chapters. The battle with Sirrurg is grand, and Aztlan coming on top of things is a pleasant sight. I've always said that Aztlan and Aztechnology are one of the iconic parts of Shadowrun, the whole concept is unique and very appealing to people who read the game for the first time. They should stay, and it's good to see they aren't going anywhere for now.

The outcome of the battle between Alamais and Lowfyr was not a surprise for me, I figured that Alamais would die. I would have preferred that Sirrurg died and Alamis got banned, as Alamais clearly has(d) more storytelling potential than 'har-har, I destroyz!' Sirrurg. Still, the write-up was quite a read, a lot of magic and dragon combat, yummy. But in the end it all came to the duel between Alamais and Lowfyr, as it is clear that the power gap between greats and adults clearly places them in different leagues. Hardly Alamis didn't know this, and here is the question - what was Alamais hoping to do with Lowfyr and other Greats supporting him? Was he really thinking he could take on the three greats at once and come on top?

Dragon conclave was a surprise, but in hindsight it should have been expected. But the wording of the text got me thinking. I can imagine Lowfyr stepping down - I'm dying to know why he did it, but considering that he was appointed a Loremaster by Dunkelzahn, I can see him deciding to back down, but as far as i understood, the title is not elected, it's claimed, so the talk about Celedyr being elected is rather strange. Maybe Frosty doesn't know the details, but i expected more of a series of challenges going on rather than voting for the next Loremaster (and it could involve PCs too).

As I already mentioned, I liked the japancorp development a lot, and 'Jack leaving.. well, I've guessed he'll be out, but still it's sad. The funny thing, i agree with Clockwork that 'Jacks' choice of successors is a poor one, but if I was in his shoes, I would have chosen the same people. And I've seen that happen. That's how I got myself my own miniature Jackpoint ))

The only parts I didn't like (save the Seattle chapter which I couldn't bother to read as the city has nothing to do with our games and all the events there are quite local) are Denver chapter and Tir one. The elves are written quite good and my issue with them is not the chapter itself, but that it continues the trend that was set with the country in general. all those nameless telestrians are just a bunch of names and of no real interest, unfortunately. The Denver story... well, there's a line from Aesop: 'Mountains will labour: what’s born? A ridiculous mouse!', and that was the impression I've got after reading the chapter. Through the book some epic stuff happens. Great Dragons die or are exiled, FastJact leaves the stage, a war is concluded, etc. All those actions come to some for of a conclusion, which is rather definite and concrete. The Denver gets a huge build-up, which ends in an open confrontation between Ghostwalker and Harlequin, which comes to a halt after a few words are thrown in. Both back away and nothing happens. Yes, I noticed that Ghostwalker lost his control of Denver and Aztlan moved back in, but in comparison to other events, it seems like nothing. On the other hand, I really liked Puck involvement. He is one of the more straight characters on JackPoint - he has a point (pun intended) and he pushes it. His liberation of Nexus, as controversial and violent as it was, just stems out of his previous actions and statements. That's just great.

And now I'm looking all the way forward to the the fifth edition, at least fluff-wise. There are a lot of hinted developments and unanswered questions in the book, can't wait to see them come to life.

Puck's a personal fave. I always wonder what he's up to.

He's old-school in the good sense. Reading a lot of old sourcebook between the games I can't but notice the change of attitude between Shadowland and JackPoint. SL had a lot of idealism, morality issues, anarchism going on while JP is more a merc professional-slash-blog-slash-chat network. Puck is more a SL type, and the distinction became obvious when he came in with comments like 'hey, you knew these guys are bugs and did nothing about it? And I'm the bad guy here?!' Of course, maybe I'm giving the character I like more credit than he deserves, but he really is one of my favorites.

I'd like to see more of Goatfoot. She's a satyr and you don't see alot of them in the fiction/fluff.

So... Slamm-0! bowls. Really getting into the Picket Fence and a Family thing, isn't he? Wonder if he has a robodog that sits next to him at the fireplace while he reads his virtual paper and smokes his e-pipe?

History will prove him right.

i like this idea, frankly. Keep the core staff, and add others as needed, avoiding everyone being an expert in everything.
Frankly, I don't think that's happenng with Jackpoint as established, alas.

He's going to be proven right as a raging bigot against technomancers? Character types that have been open as PC's for years? They're going to come out with a book that states "Oh by the way, all you people that play technos... you didn't know it the years you've been playing them, but you're all evil, and trying to kill metahumanity" ?

Mmmmm I don't think so. That'd be like making a book that suddenly said all trolls were secretly evil. Even the people that played trolls, were just Manchurian candidates and didn't know how eeeeeeeevil they were.

Or that all Mages are Evil and the PC mages just didn't know it.

Or all any _____ (Fill in your class, or race, or metatype, or species, etc) are.


He's a bigot. He's a backstabber and a traitor. I hope he gets a traitor's death.

I know he had 'use', but Jackpoint can use Rigger-X and others for their drone/military knowledge. Bring in a new guy.

Judas psychotropic effects. It's not like you cannot add those while a mancer is created.


Emotional much? What about Puck, a mass murderer?

Hermit, what actually makes you think that's a likely course of action for them to take?

On all trolls, because trolls are revealed to be secretly planning to take over the world and eat our babies? Sounds like a plan...

The AI used otaku as their servants, just as dragons use drakes. Now, the AI have technomancers. It's actually a story stolen from Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, especially the later two books.


Of all vampires, so you can rage.

Quoting this for truth. Shadowland had a serious leg up over Jackpoint on this side, because it allowed for more nebulous truth in the articles. When you've got known faces going 'yep, this is it', it just isn't as interesting as having people arguing and calling each other commie mutant corp-licking traitors in the commentary. It made the articles feel more real, as well, because everyone knows you can't trust everything you read online...

[citation needed]


Aren't vampires infertile?

The difference being that many runners are mass murderers. Not all of them are betrayers or traitors. There's a hierarchy of offense/evil. On my scale, gross bigotry, and turning on your chummers and trying to give one over to the man, is higher than murder, when your job description often involves killing people who's only fault is guarding where you're trying to go.

To be fair, what Puck did went way beyond that. Compared to him Clockwork is tame.

I disagree. With Jackpoint you get to know the people. You know the ones that are likely to lie or post for self intrest. You get to know the ones you can (Sorta) Trust. You know who's good with drones (Clockwork, Rigger-X) You know the ones that are good mercs. (Picador, Hard Exit) You know the pirate, you know the corp school girl hacker, you know the conspiracy nut. There's a sense of community that you're a apart of. "you" are a jackpointer and you're part of a group of runners that help each other out and look out for one another. Gives you access to information in game that you might not have access to.

Shadowland had it's perks, but it was also full of people posting that you'd never seen before. So you don't know the validity of their posts. It's alot like open forums like here. Sure you get to know the regular posters but suddenly 10 people you've never heard of before can post 10 different things on a topic and you have no idea who those people are, why they're posting, or the validity of their statements.

While this does give the option for 'counter opinion' and story seeds. Those counter opinions can be given by the 'known' posters on Jackpoint with out the negatives.

Jackpoint also had a purpose. It wasn't just some great open board that anyone could get on. Why is this important? Well... they're --shadowrunners--. If you're a criminal that breaks into mega corps, hacks, kills people for a living and what not.... which would you prefer? A "secure" Site of fellow criminals who share their knowledge, and have been vetted by someone you trust (Fastjack) Or.. an open board where people could be cops. (( Would be cops. WOULD BE!!)) and Corp security, and terrorists, and bounty hunters looking for yep.. you.

Now... that explains a great deal of why you'd want to be on Jackpoint... Who in their right mind would post up the information and comments on a non secure board, that could have 100s of cops and bounty hunters and corpsec just waiting for someone to talk about who did _____ last week.

Yes he worked with the eeeeeeevil AI. What he did was bad. He did contribute to the death of people.
Just like when your team hits an Aztechnology lab in Walla Walla and corp sec starts shooting at you and you shoot back and kill them. Those corp sec guys are just 9-5ers looking to make a living and go home to their husbands and wives and eat their soy and catch the next Urban brawl game on the trid. They didn't hate "you" or usually go looking for "YOU". You came into their yard and started kicking over ant hills.

It is a matter of degree on that hierarchy. "Murder in the course of a job" Is one thing. Some won't do it. Some draw their lines further up and what not. Some will. Some go further down. Kane for example.

Still. Betrayal and being a traitor to your own people is bad. I'm -not- saying what Puck did was good. I'm saying I hate bigots and traitors. When most of your group is made up of murderers and killers, the traitor gets worse lumps. Personally I wouldn't have let Puck back in/trusted him. That being said, as a reader, him being there doesn't 'offend' me. I'm surprised one of the white hats hadn't hunted him down yet for his crimes. Clockwork's crimes were against other members of Jackpoint. He didn't just commit crimes against nameless faces or people you didn't know. he went after one of their own. I'm --really-- surprised he hasn't been fragged yet. To be honest... I'm a bit dissapointed in the writers for letting him live as long as he has. (( Yes I know he's the Drone and weapons guy but you have bunches of them, and if not you could make a new one to replace Clockwork once he got geeked.)). Lemme tell ya, if some guy had tried to sell me out to be vivisected, and then made direct threats to my newborn... he'd be drawing his last breaths. And I'm not even a shadowrunner.

It's kinda like in prison, there might be 100 murderers, but the child molester? Whoo he's looked down on, and beat up, if not shanked and killed.

See, that's the thing. The Jackpointers? Same people who were routinely in the comments on Shadowland. We didn't gain anything from this, we just lost the angle of random comments from other people who knew what was going on in levels the shadow crowd doesn't circulate on, be that the corps, the gangers, or even the cops. Not knowing the validity of what they were saying was the entire point, because it means that the opinions of the regulars weren't to be taken as 100% truth.

Shadowland was far from an unsecured board in and of itself. You had to be a damn fine decker, or know one, to even get access there.

Right, because the cops and corps don't have deckers..... oh wait.... lol

Again, you can get the posts that are ambiguous with posters on Jackpoint. You often do. But with out that "Who's this fraker?" "Is he a cop?" And you don't have criminals posting on an open board about their activities where the cops, corps etc could all be watching.

With Jackpoint we've seen that it's secure. We've seen when that security is attacked and what happens. It's a place where criminals might actually 'open up' and talk.

Now, I can't speak for others, but if I ever were a criminal, I wouldn't post on an open board about illegal things. Heck I'd never even type anything remotely illegal into my computer, to ever have a link or history to anything close to what I did, to have it traced back to me.

Shadowland was fun while it was there, but if you ever thought about it for about 10 seconds you'd realize every one of those guys should have been picked up by the cops after their first or second post. It's like the idiot kids that go on facebook or twitter about commiting hit and runs or thefts, and they're sooooooo surprised when the cops come to arrest them.

Jackpoint gives you separation from that aspect. (( And In doing so you have to allow for the fact that a group of criminals would 'trust' the founder enough to feel safe enough to open up and talk. In this case, that's why Fastjack was the one that 'founded' it, and why it was important that he was a 'good guy'.))

I know of a few open forums where this is the case, people are usually very smart about not posting things that can be directly incriminating and practice internet security paranoia though
and the internet isn't as monitored as they would have us believe.