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Synner
Rather than hogging the Augmentation thread and sprinkling replies to questions that are coming up in 4-5 other threads, I thought I might as well open a topic and concentrate doubts and questions here. It'll also give the authors and myself the chance to offer some answers to your questions about the book (within reason, of course) without having to follow a bunch of different thread.
Demerzel
QUOTE (Synner)
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jul 27 2007, 11:16 PM)
Hm. Is it just me, or are there no actual rules concerning the detection of Genetech, though Masking has an option of increasing the threshold by 1?

The absence of DNA scanners is at least partially an unfortunate result of the change in the release schedule. Arsenal will contain such forensic devices, we had expected it to be out first. Those who need a rule can use the Diagnostics rules in the Medtech chapter.

QUOTE
And what exactly does the 'free' of the Genetic Heritage quality mean? No Nuyen? No Essence? Both?

"Free" refers to the nuyen cost only.


So a being can be born with less than 6 essence? That's interesting...
Ravor
Although not a purely AUG question, is it legal to install ultrasound, radar, datajacks, ect into a cybereye system ala Third Editon or are cybereyes limited to "eyeware" selections?
Sterling
Now I feel silly for opening up my whole 'cyberlimb melee damage' thread.

Is there any official update to the unarmed damage a cyberlimb does in melee?
Ol' Scratch
None that I saw. It's an oddity that's (not?) been found those rules for a good long time, asside from a mild Power boost in 3rd Edition.
Chaucer
I have a couple of questions concerning the Type O System positive quality.

1. Does purchasing a bioware grade that is above "off the rack" quality give any benefit to someone with this quality? In other words, do the essence reduction bonuses from alpha and better grade bioware stack with the 0.5 reduction bonus granted by Type O System?

2. Do the benefits provided by Type O System have any effect on cultured bioware?

Thanks!
Synner
QUOTE (Ravor)
Although not a purely AUG question, is it legal to install ultrasound, radar, datajacks, ect into a cybereye system ala Third Editon or are cybereyes limited to "eyeware" selections?

Cybereyes are indeed limited to "Eyewear" options. Datajacks are now mostly redundant in that function what with wireless links and both Ultrasound and Radar sensor require more than simple visual sensors in SR4.

QUOTE (Sterling)
Is there any official update to the unarmed damage a cyberlimb does in melee?

No, and that's actually an oversight on my part. It was left out of Tweaking the Rules by accident and will likely appear in future errata. The suggested Optional Rule is Strength/2P. With the new customized limbs and the option of redlining Strength that can be quite powerful.
Ravor
QUOTE (Synner)
Cybereyes are indeed limited to "Eyewear" options. Datajacks are now mostly redundant in that function what with wireless links and both Ultrasound and Radar sensor require more than simple visual sensors in SR4.


Fair enough, although the Bounty Hunter sample character needs an errata because he has ultrasound installed in his cyberyes.


If you are using an implanted smartlink what else do you need to be able to issue mental commands to your gun? Just a Datajack/Trodenet or an actual sim-module? (In fact is a sim-module needed to issue mental commands to your non-implanted gear in general?)

Also how does your answer affect people using smart-glasses instead of the implanted version?

Thanks,
Tarantula
Quick answer from someone not official: Implanted comes with a DNI, so you need nothing. Smart-glasses you'd need a datajack/trodenet and a connection between the two (wired or wireless).
Rotbart van Dainig
Eh, let's ask anyway: What happened to implanted medkits like the Med-Alert and Guardian Angel?
Large Mike
The Penile Implant has capacity. That's not a question, just an observation.

Also, shark skin would kinda ruin your sex life, no?
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Jul 27 2007, 07:54 PM)
Eh, let's ask anyway: What happened to implanted medkits like the Med-Alert and Guardian Angel?

I saw a few references to them, but none of the ones I saw approach the (nearly overpowered) Guardian Angel system of old. Which is a good thing considering how First Aid works in this edition.

They got rid of the brand-names of a few other implants (Kid Stealth Legs, for example; a name I always hated as there's nothing stealthy about a God damn cyberfreak with chicken legs... bah!), so I'm sure those various implanted medkits are filling the given role of a GA system. ie, an implanted Medkit.

Keep in mind that standard medkits in SR4 have a limited AI and can function independently if hooked up to someone.
Fortune
QUOTE (Large Mike)
Also, shark skin would kinda ruin your sex life, no?

Depends on the nature of your sex life, wouldn't it? wink.gif biggrin.gif
Tarantula
Only if they don't have dermal plating. wink.gif
Large Mike
Speaking as someone who likes it as what would be defined as 'rough', yes. Ow. It'd be like whiskerburn that scrapes away layers of skin *everywhere*. I don't think anyone is into that kind of grating, indiscriminate pain.

Unless someone wants to step forward and expand my horizons.
Ol' Scratch
There are fetishes out there for getting your testicles trampled. Somehow, I have very little trouble with Sharksin in that kind of a world. Especially since there's other implants out there to help protect against any minor damage from such activities, magical healing, and etc.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Chaucer)
I have a couple of questions concerning the Type O System positive quality.

1. Does purchasing a bioware grade that is above "off the rack" quality give any benefit to someone with this quality? In other words, do the essence reduction bonuses from alpha and better grade bioware stack with the 0.5 reduction bonus granted by Type O System?

2. Do the benefits provided by Type O System have any effect on cultured bioware?

Thanks!

Take this with something of a grain of salt, as the last time I saw the Type-O System quality in galley proofs it erroneously stated that you were a universal receiver rather than a universal donor, so I haven't seen the final wording yet.

But conceptually, being a Type-O system would leave you perfectly matched to the standard bioware that is off-the-rack (since you're actually one of the people they use to make off-the-rack bioware). Thusly, a standard grade platelet factory would have the same relationship to you that a delta grade version would to anyone else - already laboriously genetyped and matched to surface protein expectations of your own body.

As such, delta grade bioware would have no meaning to you - really it would just be a way to flush money down the toilet because your body is already matched to the stuff that they keep in refridgerators in case someone needs a transplant in a hurry.

---

Cultured Bioware has to be made to your body regardless (as the nervous system quite importantly does not follow exactly the same pathways in different people and is not transportable as a distinct organ), so there really isn't an "off-the-rack" model that they can just throw into you. So it'll still take time to grow you one to your specs.

A good argument can thus be made either way. But if Type O costs anything like what it did in galley proofs, having it apply to cultured ware as well is reasonable. The standard cerebral booster shell has to be grown and contorted to fit your brain - but once it is attached it happens to fit your system as well as one that was custom fitted by a delta clinic to a person with the random and unique protein markers one normally finds.

-Frank
Zen Shooter01
Could we talk less about testicle trampling?
WearzManySkins
Why does a penile implant take up capacity in a Cyber Torso, while a cybernetic balance tail does not?

Why does cyber eyes take up capacity from a cyber skull, while cat's eyes and troll eyes do not?
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (WearzManySkins)
Why does cyber eyes take up capacity from a cyber skull, while cat's eyes and troll eyes do not?

...they don't. In fact, the rules are pretty clear otherwise unless it's hidden in some flavor text somewhere. Implants that take up Essence but don't have a [ Capacity ] listing are not installed in a cyberlimb, but in the "meat body" instead.
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jul 27 2007, 08:48 PM)
Why does cyber eyes take up capacity from a cyber skull, while cat's eyes and troll eyes do not?

...they don't. In fact, the rules are pretty clear otherwise unless it's hidden in some flavor text somewhere. Implants that take up Essence but don't have a [ Capacity ] listing are not installed in a cyberlimb, but in the "meat body" instead.

Again the example of the cybernetic balance tail, by what you have said it can not be installed on a cyber limb. biggrin.gif

Again this is beginning of another case of Text Wars of RAW.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jul 27 2007, 08:54 PM)
Again the example of the cybernetic balance tail, by what you have said it can not be installed on a cyber limb. biggrin.gif

Again this is beginning of another case of Text Wars of RAW.

Because it can't. It's not a cyberlimb accessory. You pay Essence to have a Balance Tail installed whether you have a Cybertorso or not. Just like Wired Reflexes, Dermal Sheaths, or Bone Lacing. The last two probably aren't very good examples, but you get my point. Same goes for Cybereyes, single or paired.

See the rule mentioned above. It basically says "if it costs Essence and doesn't have a [ Capacity ] rating in braces, you can't install it in a cyberlimb."
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jul 27 2007, 08:54 PM)
Again the example of the cybernetic balance tail, by what you have said it can not be installed on a cyber limb. biggrin.gif

Again this is beginning of another case of Text Wars of RAW.

Because it can't. It's not a cyberlimb accessory. You pay Essence to have a Balance Tail installed whether you have a Cybertorso or not. Just like Wired Reflexes, Dermal Sheaths, or Bone Lacing. The last two probably aren't very good examples, but you get my point. Same goes for Cybereyes, single or paired.

See the rule mentioned above. It basically says "if it costs Essence and doesn't have a [ Capacity ] rating in braces, you can't install it in a cyberlimb."

OK cyber eyes and cyber ears can not be installed in a cyber limb also then, they have capacity but take up none. smile.gif Also the same for the single cyber eye.
Ol' Scratch
You got it. smile.gif
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
You got it. smile.gif

That is a CROCK.
Ol' Scratch
...
WearzManySkins
When one has a cyber skull, the RAW say you can not remove the eyes and replace them with cyber eyes.

But to have a cyber skull the surgeons have to remove all of the bone in the skull at least the outer portions. But those same surgeons can not remove the eyes and replace them.

That is a CROCK of Sh*t.
Tarantula
Hmmm...
Ol' Scratch
Where are you finding these rules?

As previously mentioned, Cybertorsos and Cyberskulls (as written and as has always been the case) are not full replacement limbs. They're just shells that basically replace your bones and skin (for obvious ones) with chrome. All your organs (of which eyes and inner ears are) are still fully intact and can be replaced just as easily as they could be before. Using exactly the same rules, meaning Essence loss. There's also a lot of spare space inside both parts of your body, and those two cyberlimbs let you fill the void with various gadgets.

Maybe you should step away and go back and read over the rules a bit. I know they can be confusing at times, but most of your concerns have already been addressed either in the core rulebook or Augmentation if you take the time to look for the answers. smile.gif

EDIT: I think I found the part that's confusing you. When it says "cyberlimbs cannot hold..." they're specifically talking about the Capacity ratings of cyberlimbs, not that you can't install those implants as well. It's just going to cost you Essence instead of Capacity, whereas if an entry has both ratings you only have to pay the Capacity instead of the Essence.
WearzManySkins
Aug page 38 Quote
Single cyber eye.
"on the end of a tail (be it a balance tail"

Cybernetic balance tails have no capacity but a cyber eye can be installed on it.?!?!?!

By what you have said, cyber limbs can not have anything installed upon them that does use capacity.

The same can be said of a cyber torso it is not a complete replacement of a torso alot of meat is left. Then why does a penile implants and breast implant take up capacity of a cyber torso? Could they not be attached to the remaining meat?
Tarantula
"Cyberlimbs cannot hold any bioware, nor any cyberimplants that take up Essence rather than Capacity."
Cybereyes and cyberears take up essence, not capacity. Therefore, they cannot be held in a cyberskull, or any other cyberlimb.

A balance tail works. It is not a cyberlimb (so it can have cyberimplants in it), and thusly you can install a single cybereye (paying with essence) into it. You pay with essence, because a single cybereye does not have a capacity rating, and can only be installed by paying essence.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (WearzManySkins)
Cybernetic balance tails have no capacity but a cyber eye can be installed on it.?!?!?!

Does your meat skull have a Capacity rating? No? Can you install a cybereye into one? Yes? What's the cost? Essence instead of Capacity? Yep.

Same difference. You can install a Single Cybereye anywhere you want on your body. Even in a cyberlimb. However, it doesn't subtract any Capacity from that limb, but instead eats up a little more Essence because it's having to be wired into your meat system just like everything else.
WearzManySkins
Interesting one side of the Text War says that cyber eyes and cyber ears can be installed in a cyber limb, the other sides says no.

Again my statement to the beginnings of another Text War on RAW. smile.gif
Tarantula
I've figured it out. Funks way ahead of me on this one. Skulls and torso are NOT full replacements. Legs and arms are. Thusly, no 'ware costing essence can ever be put into cyber legs/arms. However, since a torso and skull are shells, there is still meat inside. Putting 'ware into the cyberskull/torso will cost capacity not essence. Putting ware into the meat that the skull/torso is covering costs essence, and not capacity.

Bada bing bada boom. If you get a full limb job, the only places any ware can go that costs essence is your torso or head, since those are specifically NOT full conversions, there is still meat in them to put the ware into.
WearzManySkins
Why would a single cyber eye take up essence installed upon a cybernetic balance tail.

AUG page 29 quote
"If you’ve ever had cybereyes, you know what I’m talking about. Cybereyes are essentially trid cameras. Fully wireless-enabled, tricked-out, low-light, image-linked cameras—but cameras nonetheless."

Why could the single cyber eye not use the wonderful wireless link?
Tarantula
Because, its still going to cause you to lose some of that overall "you"ness. Why? Cause you have a stinkin' eye in your tail!
Buster
I can see being able to install cameras and microphones in cyber body parts. I guess there really wouldn't be much difference between a cybereye and a camera, either tech wise or game balance wise. The only advantage a cybereye gives you over a camera in the back of your head would be to just give a mage the ability to target enemies behind him. A mage should just be able to install a DNI linked endoscope in a cyberlimb and that'd let him target enemies behind him and around corners. Hmmm, that gives me a great idea... Igor, follow me to the cybertechnology lab!
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (WearzManySkins)
Interesting one side of the Text War says that cyber eyes and cyber ears can be installed in a cyber limb, the other sides says no.

Again my statement to the beginnings of another Text War on RAW. smile.gif

The key here is that being installed "in" a cyberlimb has two distinct meanings.

The first meaning is where an object is physically located - which can be anywhere if it's a wirelessly active device.

The second meaning is where the device is installed as part of the cyberlimb and thus does not cost any essence. And that's limited to things that don't require some sort of neural modification to make them run.

---

So your cybereye has a whole section in your brain which is used to translate the images from the camera to your visual cortex and your occular motor nerve to the focusing mechanism of the camera. So it can't be installed "in" your cyberlimb for the purposes of using up capacity - it still uses Essence because it's still hooked to your brain on its own lookout.

But the actual camera portion of the cybereye, that can be literally anywhere. It can be on the back of your head or in places we don't talk about in polite company. It can even be "in" your cyberlimb if you really want it there.

--

Damned English Language and its vague prepositions!

-Frank
jmecha
Léonization....is it safe to say that if you have Léonization performed on a person they will loose all other Gene Treatments they have recieved since they were 21?

If Jack had his DNA scanned at the age of 21 and then gets Genetic Optimization treatment around the age of 42, and then gets Léonization at the age of 72......will Jack be reverted back to the 21 year old body that never had Genetic Optimization treatment?

If Jack is now Un-Optimization what happens to that point of Bod, Agi, Str, etc... that he had before his Léonization?

Would Jack just need to get Re-Optimized and repay for that maxed out attribute point again?

Personally I think having to get Re-Optimized and repaying the Karma is more then fair since Jack has an entire second life time to do so thanks to Léonization...but I figured is was grey enough to warrent asking the Devs.
Marwynn
Question on the Drone Hand, pg 46 AUG

It says that the Drone Hand may be controlled by a rigger normally via wireless. This also means the Remote Control option instead of "Jumping In" to the Drone Hand right?

Also, you can upgrade the Drone Hand with a Small Drone's capacity for Sensors correct?

Buster
Frank explained the cybereye/camera solution better than I can.

From my perspective, if I want my mage to be able to target people behind him or around corners, and to not have to take some sort of multitasking ability to pay attention in multiple directions at once, I have to pay essence for my cybereye. If I just want to have another monitor I have to watch with my image link (and split my attention), I can just buy an essence free camera.
WearzManySkins
Frank, some interesting points.

Back to an original question, why does a breast implant and penile implant take up capacity on Cyber Limb ie torso.

I do not know about your penile implant but mine has some serious neural connections, and seems to take up a large part of my brain. rotfl.gif

Since the Cyber Limb ie Torso has lots of meat left in it,,why does it take up capacity from the Cyber Limb ie Torso? In most cases it merely replacing something that is already there like in the case of the cyber eyes in the Cyber Limb ie skull. Which does not take away capacity from the Cyber Limb ie skull.
Tarantula
It doesn't have to Skins. Since a PI has a listed cost of .25 essence and [1] capacity, you can choose to install it to a cyberlimb at a cost of 1 capacity (including skulls, torsos, legs or arms), or, install it regularly for a cost of .25 essence. Its up to you how you want to put it in.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Tarantula)
Its up to you how you want to put it in.

No comment.
Tarantula
eek.gif twirl.gif
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (Tarantula)
It doesn't have to Skins. Since a PI has a listed cost of .25 essence and [1] capacity, you can choose to install it to a cyberlimb at a cost of 1 capacity (including skulls, torsos, legs or arms), or, install it regularly for a cost of .25 essence. Its up to you how you want to put it in.

Damn it Tarantula such elegant and simple solutions/interpretations are not to be allowed. rotfl.gif

One good response/answer. smile.gif

Now since a cyber implant can have another cyber implant,,could KK's breast weapon equipped character be possible?

Implanted Breasts "using capacity" of the Cyber Limb ie Torso, with a gland full of neat drugs, with implanted fangs. Would the additional implants cost essence? smile.gif
Tarantula
Gland is bioware. Bioware always costs essence. If you want breasts with glands in them, you have to pay essence for the breats, otherwise they are a part of the cybertorso (because you paid with capacity) and thusly you can't put glands in a cyberlimb (and they are in the cyberlimb because of the aforementioned capacity cost).
So, you can do it if you pay essence for the whole shebang, otherwise, you can't.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Jul 27 2007, 10:05 PM)
Damn it Tarantula such elegant and simple solutions/interpretations are not to be allowed. rotfl.gif

One good response/answer. smile.gif

About five different people explained that to you multiple times, mate.

QUOTE
Now since a cyber implant can have another cyber implant,,could KK's breast weapon equipped character be possible?

By default, it's assumed all implants are working together however you want to reasonably explain them. If you have both a pair of cybernetic breasts and the cybernetic venom sac or whatever it's called now installed into a cybertorso (thus making it a single item all working together), sure, you could have the venom sac "routed" to the breasts if you really wanted to.

You'd probably get further if you tried using less sophomoric examples, by the way. I think it was a mistake including sexual organs in the main rules for that very reason.

QUOTE
Implanted Breasts "using capacity" of the Cyber Limb ie Torso, with a gland full of neat drugs, with implanted fangs. Would the additional implants cost essence? smile.gif

If the implant doesn't have a [ Capacity ] value, then yes, you have to pay for it with Essence instead. None of that really matters after the fact. You're a single entity and everything you have installed is now part of you. As long as you describe how everything is working together and it's believable, it's only up to the GM to decide if it's viable. The rules themselves allow it for the most part.
Ravor
QUOTE (Tarantula)
Gland is bioware. Bioware always costs essence. If you want breasts with glands in them, you have to pay essence for the breats, otherwise they are a part of the cybertorso (because you paid with capacity) and thusly you can't put glands in a cyberlimb (and they are in the cyberlimb because of the aforementioned capacity cost).
So, you can do it if you pay essence for the whole shebang, otherwise, you can't.


Short of one of the devs stepping in and saying that was the intent I have to disagree, as long as you have the implants installed it doesn't matter how you manage to pay for them, if you really want poison dripping cyberbreasts then you can have them, although I wouldn't expect to get your moneys worth out of that combo.
WearzManySkins
QUOTE (Tarantula)
Gland is bioware. Bioware always costs essence. If you want breasts with glands in them, you have to pay essence for the breats, otherwise they are a part of the cybertorso (because you paid with capacity) and thusly you can't put glands in a cyberlimb (and they are in the cyberlimb because of the aforementioned capacity cost).
So, you can do it if you pay essence for the whole shebang, otherwise, you can't.

My mistake I was referring to the Cyber Gland not the bioware one.
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