Actually, people in recorded history didn't necessarily keel over in their thirties. Folks that made it past puberty had a good chance of seeing 50 and a fair shot at 60 (if one survived child birth); it was the child deaths that drove the average age down. This was true even in ancient times: Caesar was murdered in his 50s, Archimedes and Kong Fuzi both made it past 70, and Djer reigned for over 40 years. Descriptions and diagnoses of senile dementia were recorded by Ancient Greek, Roman, Byzantine, and Chinese physicians.

Tricky Question . . technically, it should be possible i'd say . . but the devs and the rules haven often pointed out that what i say ammounts to an ant trying to stop a volcano . .

Er ... sort of. First off, water molecules are not absorbed by radar, that's true. Radar and other electromagnetic radiation experiences greater attenuation in water, though. Weather radar works because the wavelengths used are larger, but not too much larger, than what they're intended to find. This causes Rayleigh scattering, which is what the weather detectors look for to find clouds and precipitation.

Most military detection radar uses wavelengths that are much larger than weather radar, and so are not as attenuated by water vapor (it just polarizes the water particles it passes through, rather than scattering or reflecting).

For the radar geeks, weather radar uses the X and C bands, and detection radar uses the HF through S bands.

The only problem is any bioware place into the brain would have any antigens on it it wanted because the imune system is NOT allow in the brain because of the life threatening dangers brain swelling causes. There is a blood brain barrier which prevents the interaction of the two.
So imuno typing is actually a NON-requirement as opposed to a minimum requirement.

With a little effort I can point out the genes required to do many of the fuctions of basic bioware and even cultured bioware, ie muscle agumentation/toner, bone density, digestive expansion, damage compensators, these are all found in the animal kingdom, and should be brought over via transgenomic tweeking.

Thats genetech. Shadowrun tech is only now starting to get that. Deal with it.

So I could spend .5 essence to get the meat mods, but keep the hive on my desk and fill up syringes with nanites and inject them when required? If so, how would this affect the cost of the hive, and or future hives, as I'm not paying for them to be implanted?

Hmm for some reason this line of discussion sounds familiar.

I have such in my SR4 world but the character has to a good back story to cover it.

There has been some long and detailed threads on this subject here.

WMS

Hmm tell that to the FAA when my military radar jammed out LAX for two weeks.

Frequency equals resolution of radar image.

WMS

Present day 2008 tech can do muscle augmentation with some cultured antibodies.

The genetech version would just be a simple gene knockout. If they can make me look Chinese be rewriting my DNA they can turn one gene off.

I agree but since the Devs/Freelancers have yet to have issued anything with this technology, the Canonistas, Cranial Rectal Inversionites, and Hard Liners say you can not have it.

WMS

LAX also uses detection radar, so the military bands would be similar. However, military radar tends to be more powerful, and so could interfere with the airport's return signals. It's kind of like trying to listen to your friend at a concert; the louder signal from the speakers drowns out her speech. Alternately, if the pulses were strong enough, you could actually do physical damage to the waveguides or other electronics.


True, but the higher the frequency, the greater the attenuation, and so the shorter the range. That goes doubly for radar, because you've not only got attenuation going out, but you've got it coming back, too.

Yes and no. I'm sure an actual trained biotech engineer can better explain this, but the chances are very low that it would merely augment your muscles. More likely, it would augment your muscles and give you cancer (the real thing, not the kind that one game gives you).

Actually the FAA uses RADAR for ground approach, IFF for anything beyond the range of the Ground Approach Radar. FYI the RADAR jamming out LAX also had a "new" IFF systems 180 degrees out of the main RADAR beam. Jammed them on landing and made them disappear off their IFF tracking systems.

Now how a 2kw RADAR Beam got focused on that FAA/FCC van mounted feedhorn antenna pier side I do not know. But I still recall the message traffic I had to submit to the FAA on our ships movement and what Freqs were to be used in what US locales. Since I was Work Center Supervisor, I got woken up at O Dark 30 to change the Freqs and report same to the OOD.

Mark 23 TAS 1390-1400 MHz ie 1.39-1.4 GHz ie UHF also L Band
Mark 23TAS
AN/SPS-10 5,450-5,825 MHz ie SHF also C Band
AN/SPS-55 9,050-10,000 MHz ie SHF also X Band
AN/SPS-40 402.5-447.5 MHz ie UHF
AN/SPS-49 851-942 MHz ie UHF
AN/SPS-48 2,900-3,100 MHz ie UHF/SHF also S Band
AN/SPY-1 3,100-3,500 MHz ie SHF also S Band

For those with a self abusive streak here is a link to the Surface Warfare Officers Training Manuel on RADARS.

Electronics Material Officer Course

Also the same can be said of the various implanted bioware and such by today's standards, the risk of cancers caused by this is very great. But if the 2070 BioWare/GeneWare designers can over come the issues with their various published Warez, the risk of induced cancers due to Geneware for Transgenetic Enhancements is minimal, if not non existent, but seems to be vastly overstated. The Big Issue is the design sequence.

WMS

Actually the gene is called myostatin, and limits the upper limits on human muscle development, without it humans actually reach adult primate muscle densities. And I do have a degree in biology and looked this kinda stuff up when attending university. All that would be required to implement it is removing a portion of someone white blood cells and training them to attack the myostatin protein, then collecting the antibodies and reintroducing them into the donor. There are several human recorded with myostatin deficencies, and they have not noticed increased risk of cancer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myostatin

Creating antibody reactions to myostatin is one of the worst ideas I've heard of recently.

There are ways to reduce the myostatin in the body that don't involve triggering an auto-immune response.

-Frank

Since the protein is nonvital, there isn't an issue, in addition the source of the antibodies is external to the body itself so if you ever want functional myostatin again just stop injecting the antibody. I'd just use the individual's own white bloodcells to ensure the antibodies are recognized as self and allowed to do their job. If you can tell me why this would be a bad idea I'd love to hear about it.

Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but I have a question that I haven't been able to find any discussion on:

It seems like second-hand alphaware is strictly better than new off-the-shelf 'ware. I'm fine with this from an in-game perspective, but balance-wise it just seems stupid. In the example they give in the text on page 32, the player is able to buy, for the same price and lower availability, Rating 2 second hand alphaware muscle replacements for only 1.92 essence instead of the 2 it would cost had she bought them new and non-alpha.

That is to say, alphaware is no higher in availability, but second-hand ware is lower, the price either doubles or halves so you can do both at the same time, and the essence cost is 1.2 * 0.8 = 0.96 times what the essence cost would normally be.

Is there a good reasoning behind this or should I just make a rule against second-hand alphaware.

You could go the route of...

Alphaware = 20% discount
Secondhand = 20% markup

Total Discount = 0% aka 100% of base Essence cost.

So secondhand ware...
Normal = 120% Essence
Alpha = 100% Essence
Beta = 90% Essence (assuming you could get secondhand in this grade)
Delta = 70% Essence (assuming you could get secondhand in this grade)

This certainly does seem more sensible, even if it contradicts the in-book example. There's still the problem where, by doing this, you've made every piece of cyberware have 1 lower availability, but that's not so bad.

Thanks.

The inbook example is incorrect and will be fixed in upcoming errata as will several calculations (namely the cybersuites). The discounts/markup percentages should be added/subtracted from one another before being applied.

Quick Question: Where can i find information about used organs? On page 127 the book puts down the prices for type o and cultures body parts. But what if one of my players wants a "used" organ?

Thats where the immuno-suppressants come into play. I´d say use the 50% modifier on cost, but hit them with the Implant-Induced-Immune-Deficiency. It´s not a desireable way in the face of commonly available Type-O implants.

Whats the Implant-Induced-Immune-Deficiency?

If I had to guess, it sounds like a plot device intended to have the same chilling effect on the secondhand implant market that AIDS had on the casual sex/one-night-stand mindset of the early-to-mid 80s.

While I like RunnerPaul's answer, I presume this is the 10 BP negative quality on page 22 of Augmentation. The text says that a few people develop auto-immune problems when they get cyberwear of biowear. Those folks get a -2 modifier on all Body Tests to resist the effects of disease, drugs, toxins, and other compounds (including Physical Addiction Tests and Disease Resistance Tests.)

Joel

To be honest, i have my doubts that a player charakter should get -2 modifiers on all his/her body test when he/she gets a used organ. We are talking here about a 10BP negative quality ... Somehow a touch too much.

I indeed meant the negative quality. And for the record, I assumed that used = from someones starter kit, not used = used Type O. Used Type O organs can use the rules for second-hand bioware IMO, which is basically the same.

I ment "normal" used body parts. I think i will apply a -50% multiple for costs and instead the growth time i will use half of it as provide time.

So...this may be a stupid question, but I'm a little unsure of the cost of customized cyberlimbs and higher grade 'ware costs.

So if I buy a customized alphaware limb, do I first add the customization costs, then double them for the alphaware cost? Or do I double the standard price, then add the customization costs?

Also, on page 46 of Augmentation, the Built-in Medikit says that it replaces the forearm, but on page 47 the built-in Medikit is listed as a hand module. Which one is correct?

i would say that the bump for grade apply after everything else...

why? iirc, anything added to a graded bit of cyberware has to be of the same grade.

that results in anything added gets a grade bump anyways, and it will be simpler to just apply the grade bump after everything else is summed up (unless one is adding stuff after chargen), as bumping individually or the total will have the same end result.

Correct.

Can Autoinjectors with multiple doses hold different compunds? (The rules seem to say so, but it's a bit strangely worded.)

If yes, can the compund be selected as desired or are they released in a row?

Per the text, any combination of doses you desire.

IMO the only sensible function for such a device is dispense-as-selected, but it does not seem to say that explicitly.

In the Nanotech chapter, there are multiple references to Desktop Nanoforges in contrast to Nanofaxes - yet the tables only list Nanofaxes.

What would a Desktop Nanoforge cost?

Page 130 of Arsenal. 15k for a small, and 150k for a lage. With some rules on how they work to boot.

how much for PLANS for the big forge and supplys for the SMALL forge to build the BIG forge with? O.o

Low price of one thor shot.

*puts said things into other characters house*
yes, i know, munchy as hell and back ^^

Uh, no - those aren't Nanoforges.

From the references I guess that the mechanical/electrical nanofax is indeed a Desktop Forge.

They are most certainly nanoforges -- it's right there in their names. They're just not the nanoforge facilities discussed in Augmentation (which cost in excess of ten million nuyen). The desktop nanoforges in Arsenal are basically just universal toolkits and shops for build/repairing equipment.

There's also no reason that you couldn't use a desktop nanoforge to build a nanoforge facility if you had the plans (good luck) and the feedstock (which costs about the same as the final product plus 50% since the Availability of one is doubtlessly over 11). Thus it's a pretty damn futile endeavor. But it's possible if you have the time, money, real estate, and personnel for the job.

No. Those in Arsenal are Desktop Forges, not Desktop Nanoforges.

Desktop Forges use a laser that melts the feedstock.
Desktop Nanoforges use Nanites that build the object.

Oops, my mistake.

The point remains, however, that you can still use one to build a nanoforge facility. But it's completely unreasonable from a player's perspective.

Not really, as there are parts that Desktop Forges can't produce - sure, Desktop Nanoforges are limited to, but to a lesser degree.
Nanofaxes, on the other hand, are not limited by complexity, but specifications.

It's on p. 100 - which mentions that there are a number of models on the market... but there aren't any stats.

I really think there are - read exactly that part of the fluff, and then tell me the difference between a nanofax for mechanical/electrical devices and a desktop forge. Or find a reference for a nanofax that can do that stuff. Conclusion: Wrong name in the table.

The big difference is in limitation: A Nanofax is only able to produce subscription items - a Desktop Nanoforge is able to build to user-specs.

Are the Articulated Weapon-Arm and the External Mount retractable or are they actually intended to turn destroy the user's subtlety? There were retractable versions in the third edition and I would dearly miss them. Makes cyberlimbs a little more versatile and suck less.

I really liked where cyberware was going when i read the Cybertechnology. With Augmentation i feel like the part about interconnectivity is missing. Mixing and matching cybeware was kind of fun with the old rules.

I read through most of the thread and didn't see anyone ask this before. If there is some post about this, disregard this and just point me in the right direction.

Anyway, my question is about cyberware synergies.

Looking at Muscle Replacement and Bone Lacing, i asked myself, why would the bones of a patient need to be reinforced if he/she already had bone lacing? What about a character with Bone Lacing and a Foot Anchor? If a Character with a Move-by-Wire 1 wants to upgrade the skillwire part to level 4 is that done by purchasing a level 2 skillwire or is there need for a whole new Level 4 skill wire? Does a Character with Cyberlimbs get a reduction in essence cost if he /she gets a cyberware piece that is intended for the whole body like Muscle replacement or Dermal Plating/Sheath? A player recently asked me if his samurai would get an essence discount if he would mount retractable horns down his spine which largely consists of Reaction Enhancers anyway (damn freak!)?

While i understand that some of these effects might be too odd of far off it is undeniable that some combinations of cybernetic modifications can have a nice synergy. Right now i simply apply the rules for Cyberware suites, but that doesn't seem right. A character with muscle replacement, dermal sheath and bone lacing should get a spur for a lot less essence since most modifications necessary are probably already made.

How are other GMs handling this? What are the developers thoughts on it? Thanks in advance.

as of right now, there are no such rules as far as i know, but it should be easy enough to adapt and assimilate the rules from SR3 man and machine . .