How do you figure? The rules pretty much state everything you have installed works together in this edition, and implants like the (apparently named) Cyber Gland specifically state that they can be applied to various parts of your body. Of which cybernetic breasts are once you have them installed, whether it was via the Capacity of a Cybertorso or Essence.

Look at it this way. Capacity encompasses all the extra access points a cyberlimb has for you to plug stuff into. Since that cyberlimb is already hardwired to your system, those Capacity-eating accessories don't require any more Essence because they're basically modifying the cyberlimb, expanding the capabilities of the cyberlimb. It's no different than giving a cyberlimb an extra +1 Strength; that extra Strength isn't a separate entity anymore than the other accessories are.

It's all pedantic, really. You're still paying Essence for everything. Cyberlimbs just have a bonus in that they effectively reduce the Essence costs of select implants. But they still function just like they would if you had paid Essence and never had a cyberlimb installed.

Aug page 35

Fine. Make me get my damn book loaded up. One moment.

Cybergland. Augmentation pp. 33 and 36.

I get the point Wearz is making here.

If I subscribe a drone to my PAN, I can have a window open in my field of view that gives me the drone's view. What the drone sees, I can see... with zero essence spent.

The trick here is if a balance tail could be installed with a compartment in it, and in that compartment you placed a Lone Star iBall drone (or just spot-welded it to the end of your tail, that's one way) and subscribed it...

I'm sure any character with iBall drones duct-taped on their hands and the back of their neck would raise a few eyebrows, but the whole wireless (or hell, even skinlink) setup means you could technically have a sensor implant that costs zero essence. If you can subscribe to another's pan and share sensory input (I see what the dwarf rigger sees) then you do open up the floodgates to a character with single cybereyes attached with double sided tape.

This opens up a can of worms. So why couldn't I make a belt with two cyberlimbs bolted to it and control them via my PAN? I'm sure there's some argument about the speed of access, but there's enough in the RAW about access time and response to make the argument in favor. I'm not saying I agree with the idea of an ork with cybereyes stuck to his armor, or his motorcycle having a cyberarm that fires while he drives... but you can see where the argument can be made.

I've often thought of running several microdrones that 'ride' on a character's clothes and drop off when told to, in order to keep tabs on a facility. If the rigger-hacker's got a good enough commlink, he can have tiny insect drones covering the entrance, access corridor, etc. Who needs to hack the building when you have your own mobile security system?

Why not indeed? Igor, bring me my tool belt!

But seriously, why not? The cyberarm belt would just be a partially mobile drone. You could control the arm-drone by diving into it (what a spectacular waste of time) or you could put an agent in there and send commands to the agent. Bingo, you have four arms.

The difference between a cybereye and a camera taped to the end of your tail is that you don't have to multitask to see through the cybereye. The essence cost is paying for the brain/nerve rewiring you need to natively perceive through the device.

With a camera, you have to multitask to see through that device (as per the multiple drone/monitor rules). You'd have to either take your attention off your normal vision and watch the tail monitor and take perception penalties to your regular sight or you'd have to take your attention off your tail camera and receive perception penalties to spotting stuff in your tail camera (unless you had Multitasking).

Oh, I'm not trying to argue the essence cost issue with magic, you're completely correct on that aspect.

I just don't quite understand how a drone that can move on its own independently, yet projects a window of what it sees would be any more or less disorienting than a balance tail (or even a surge fully controllable tail) with a drone duct-taped to the end of it.

I'm also not really serious about this point, I just wanted to illustrate how the wireless drone rules do open up a very difficult position on the old 'to impant cybereyes in non-standard locations costs essence' rule.

Hmm under the Biosculpting in Aug severe modification one could have a tail, stretching it out,,,one could have another arm installed?

Or have two additional arms cloned, then have them attached to the torso of the clonee.

Yes the figuring out how to have a second set of arms including a working skeletal structure and neural pathways/brain work, would require a skilled surgeon etc.

But now you have four arms,,you can replace them with Cyber Limbs ie Arms, so you are with in RAW.

No, and that was my point, really. Unless you somehow slapped the magnetic system in your tail and could 'drop' the drone when you chose to... but that's as far as I'm going there.

I'm just saying that instead of spending essence to slap a cybereye in the tip of your cybertail, why not use the rules about controlling drones to get that same advantage (a way to see behind you, around corners, etc) using a mounted drone?

I'm sure any serious corp has hardened armor for their security guards with 'turreted' drones in the shoulders, that way each guard not only has 360 degree vision, they have a machine pistol on each shoulder that are basically fixed smart firing platforms that provide cover, etc.

The fact anyone with a commlink can control a drone and the fact that drones can move independently does not mean that there is no use for a drone that is slaved to your commlink and cannot move on its own (or is anchored at one spot but can spin and elevate its weapon).

In my game I might allow people to stick a 'remote' cybereye on various locations, but I doubt I would allow it to replace the advantage (and mages wouldn't find it useful for spell casting, but it would help avoid being surprised) of a 'legal' cybereye implanted and paid for by essence.

"This looks like a good place for a stick-up-eye!"

"Wow, it's an air freshener and a cybereye too! You get odor elimination AND can catch Junior raiding the cookie jar and your husband breaking his diet!"


Argh, sorry, I'm totally contributing to a massive derailment of a very helpful thread, I'll stop.

Edit, helping to end what I have started.

Buster had the answer; it's better to implant the eye and lose two dice on the observe in detail/perception test for all your eyes than to have to make a second test for the drone duct-taped to your tail/back when you want to check your six.

Sheesh, I get a good night's sleep and come back to this...

I'm not going to bother with digging up the first of this thread of questions. Frank, Dr. Funk, and several others have answered correctly.

A cybereye costs Essence because it is hardwired to your nervous system and transmits sensory data back and forth to your brain - whether its on your foot, your tail or the back of your neck. This neural link is constantly making minute adjustments to depth perception, focus, etc like a real eye. Cameras/sensors/drones that are not physically wired to the brain via DNI are also available (and more will come with Arsenal) but wireless links are detectable, hackable, subject to jamming, and generally more vulnerable than DNI.

Technically the rules do not allow for cybereyes to be implanted on cyberlimbs because cybereyes have Essence costs and not Capacity (note that both cyberskulls and cybertorsos are shells allowing you to still get bio- and cyber headware and bodyware). In hindsight, this could have been handled differently by simply adding a Capacity to single cybereyes - I'll look into including this in errata. If you really must have them, it is easy enough, have them take up half their current Capacity (load) value as Capacity cost.

Also: everyone who has mentioned that cyberware implanted in a cyberlimb can be connected up any which way you want is correct (and while you can't use a bioware chemical gland in a cyberarm at all, in the case of a torso mounted cyberbreast / chemical gland arrangement that is possible since the cybertorso does not replace the internal organs of the torso and it's only a matter of making a conduit). And yes, we did spend time discussing whether cybergenitalia were puerile.

Finally, I will reiterate my previous clarification regarding a Capacity related issue: only Eyeware and Earware systems may be used in cybereyes and cyberears respectively.

Oh well. Here's to hoping gay, fart, and (more) dick jokes don't become the norm at least.

..what implanted MedKits? There are none, AFAIS.

(The Saviour Medkit is still there, but still no implant...)

That's a point... but unfortunately, it was most likely a marketing decision.

... maybe if it's inhabiting?

EDIT: Ooh! Maybe you could dikote a cybergenetalia and have the ally spirit inhabit that!

EDIT 2: Age old question solved: Yes, you can in fact have sex with a dikoted ally spirit.

It was never really a question of if ...

Ah, you're right. It's the Savior Medkit I saw the few times I flipped through.

Would have been nice, but having an implant that had a good chance of auto-magically healing you several boxes of damage plus having a Trauma Damper and Blood Circuit Control System would have been way too much.

A Biomonitor/Nano-Biomonitor, the two previously mentioned implants and either a standard medkit hooked up to you or a Savior Medkit is already a crazy combo. Is more really needed with the SR4 rules?

Realism? It is certainly adds that.

Also, comedy? I think a "custody battle" based run between bickering divorcees might make a welcome change of pace amidst the gloom and crime. Let's say the wife bought it for an anniversary present and gets it in the settlement. It has emotional significance to the male party and the team is hired to get it back.

It may or may not be of interest to people, but how is it tasteless? I'm a little concerned by the fact that you liken it to fart and gay jokes. The former are childish (to me) whilst sex is an adult thing, And the latter should be avoided as a rule.

I think there is a strong distinction between the US and Europe in this regard. Most of us over here (Europe) just shrug and think nothing much of it. And I'm reminded of a line from the original London sourcebook that talks about the difference between the English and the US regarding sex being primarily oral - "In america, they talk about it more, before, during and after."

This could be an interesting topic for a spin off thread if anyone wants to criticise the inclusion of cyber-genitalia and orgasm in Augmentation.

This combined with nanosymbiotes is why we felt Guardian Angel were ultimately unnecessary with the default rule set. If you really want SR4 stats for them I can try to dig up the writeup I did for nanocybernetics during development (though I would only suggest using them with the alternative (slower) Healing rules in Augmentation).

It's yet another box you carry around. (..and of course, there are characters out there that had them...) It was especially great for the Medic that had no-one to take care of him, and of course, for SpecOp-Types that were thankful for everything that was automatically taken care of.

Sure, I can houserule that you just buy a Nano-Biomonitor, the refills for Savior Medkits and a Nanite Hive to support them once they circle around... then use the Saviour Stats, activating when needed. But that's just a quick&dirty houserule.

Actually, poison/disease spewing cyber-genitalia sound like a fairly interesting concept for a face adept assassin. Seduce target, nail target, implant delayed action poison/virus/nanites/dikoted ally spirit into target, and escape as target dies a grizzly death. At the very least it could make for a fun villain or henchman. As a PC it'd be niche, but the backing exists for it in fiction.
Of course if you go that route you have to get an oral slasher as well. What's her name, from Hardwired?


Oh, and on a serious note, how the hell does the Blood Circuit Control System interact with the Trauma Damper? They both specifically mention interactions with the Platelet Factory, but not with each other. Help?

to the first part: true that, even if it seems its denied strongly in some parts of the world (attempting to prove that belief can move mountains?).

as for the second part: that interesting, and walks right into the old question, should a replacement hip joint cost essence?

I think there is enough of a precedent in the cyberpunk corpus to justify the inclusion of sexually-themed content. The examples that immediately leap to mind are Y.T.'s dentata, "Ghost in the Shell," and the old Cyberspace game.

American puritanism aside, I really think that sex is an important part of a cyberpunk work. One of the questions raised in the genre is, "what is human?" Sex and intimacy are extremely human concepts, and the ability to describe it, express it, or twist it is important in exploring what it means to be human.

Oh man that's an awesome plot. Both hilarious and vicious.

I'll only say one thing about the topic and that's if they DIDN'T put cybergenitalia implants in the game, they would be obvious in their absence. Breast enhancement surgery is the most common cosmetic surgery in the U.S. and as soon as the tech is cheap for all other forms of "those kinds" of enhancements would become extremely common.

This seems odd, considering the variety of weird drone shapes it can jack into without problems.