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Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Synner)
The fact that neural ware is essentially cultured bioware doesn't mean the reverse is true.

Sure. But it means that any Bioware that is described as modifying the neural system as integral part of it's function must be Cultured Bioware.

QUOTE (Synner)
You're honestly trying to tell me that Tailored Phermone's are not linked up to the user's central nervous system?

We'll never know, as it doesn't say so in it's description. nyahnyah.gif
Actually, you don't have control over the effects, i.e. can't shut them off... so it may be very well just a gland mod like it says.

QUOTE (Synner)
Or that Cat's Eyes replacements don't have nerves up to the brain?

Well, there's a difference to Enhanced Pheromone Receptors:
Cat Eyes don't state in it's description that the neural pathways to/in the brain are boosted, too. EPR does... in fact, that was the point of the Social Skills Bonus.
So, strictly speaking, as long as it is described that way, it would be Cultured Bioware.

QUOTE (Synner)
Or that the Adrenal Pump (which is triggered by stress and emotional states) is not linked up to the emotive sensors of the brain via the nervous system?

Yes. The Adrenal Pump in fact is triggered by hormones, not neural linkup.
Talia Invierno
Thanks, Rotbart van Dainig and the_dunner. Overlooking a page or two like that is what happens when a PDF keeps crashing a computer.

I'd disagree on cost-benefit when there is a greater than 1% chance of the benefits becoming permanent at no ES cost, and in the past I've found that a months-long cancer seems to be no deterrent at all to most players: but that's a matter of personal taste.
Ravor
Talia Invierno we are talking about Genetic Infusions correct? If they become permanent it costs 0.4 Essence.
Rotbart van Dainig
..which really sucks, because there is no way to avoid it, even if it kills you: You can't use Edge on the test.
Ravor
Besides, with a possible debate on the merits of "Sideways" combined with an implanted Biomonitor none of the Genetic Infusions strikes me as anywhere close to being worthy of 0.4 Essence, even if it doesn't kill you in the process.
Talia Invierno
And missed that again. Thanks, Ravor.

(Sorry for the dumb questions: I've been wrestling a cranky computer and printer all morning. Now it's the printer that's choking on the file size.)
Rotbart van Dainig
Actually, Endure is better than Neo-EPO concerning Dice per Essence.

..of course, that means that you are now Tyler Durden.
Ravor
Yeah, the downside just doesn't outweigh the upside on that one. At least in my opinion, even for the Pink Mohawk Crowd in most cases. cyber.gif


*Edit*

Err, strike and reverse what I just said. cyber.gif
Ravor
Ok, here's a question that I've had for awhile, can you "turn off" bioware like Synaptic Boosters or do you forever have a harder time sneaking past Motion Sensors?
Rotbart van Dainig
Indeed.
Rotbart van Dainig
BTW... what dice are you actually rolling when using the Radar Sensor?
Rating?
Rating + Perception?
Intuition + Perception?

And why exactly is it (and Ultrasound) affected by lighting conditions? Both are active systems that bring their own 'light' source...
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Ravor)
Ok, here's a question that I've had for awhile, can you "turn off" bioware like Synaptic Boosters or do you forever have a harder time sneaking past Motion Sensors?

As far as I know - no. Of course, moving slowly to get past a motion detector is the sucker's way. Real ninjas use a bed sheet.

QUOTE
And why exactly is it (and Ultrasound) affected by lighting conditions? Both are active systems that bring their own 'light' source...


Both are systems which superimpose themselves on your normal vision. The more information you get from the visual spectrum, the less you need to rely upon them. Relying upon an ultrasound sensor or radar sensor alone is a -3 penalty versus seeing normally. And if you can kind of see what's going on, the penalty is a little less.

-Frank
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Relying upon an ultrasound sensor or radar sensor alone is a -3 penalty versus seeing normally.

That should be noted somewhere. Arsenal, perhaps.
Because that has huge implications when shooting people through walls or invisible mages... or even seeing them at all.

But my main question remains - what dice are rolled when using the Radar Sensor?

FrankTrollman
QUOTE

But my main question remains - what dice are rolled when using the Radar Sensor?


It's a visual perception test. We know this because it provides a modifier to visual perception tests (a "visibility modifier" as it is called in the radar sensor description).

-Frank
Rotbart van Dainig
So the Rating is only used to determine max wallstrengh and finding guns?
The Jopp
Several questions today. First:

Modular cyberlimbs. Do i even calculate a new capacity or is for example a Drone Hand integrated into the arm and I still have the 15 capacity on an obvious limb or do i reduce it by (Obvious Hand) cap? It seems like excessive book-keeping to keep track on a full cyberlimb who suddenly is a full modular cyberlimb minus hand. Besides, one already pays for the limb to be modular AND the drone hand upgrade.

Second, will the Drone hand have the same physical attributes as the limb? (Body 8 drone on a troll arm for example. Or strength for that matter.)

The Radar System. It says in the description that:

"It can penetrate its rating x 5 of cumulative barrier Structure ratings"

Now, that DOES mean that a lvl 4 radar can penetrate eiither up to 4 rating 5 barriers or up to one rating 20 barrier structure?

Or is it limited to rating 5 walls? Would be kinda fun to see through concrete walls...
Cursedsoul
Adding on to the drone hand train of thought, what are the thoughts on capacity space for cyberlimb plug-ins?

For example, I'm thinking of a guy whose basically a swiss army knife. He'll have a pair of cyberlimbs, one basically combat oriented and one with all the sensors and gizmos.

What I think'd be cool is to have say, the grapple hand attachment with a shockhand upgrade. Same with the drone hand. Probably especially with the drone hand because thoughts of a cybernetic Thing from the Addams family tugging on a guy's pantleg to get their attention and then zapping them is amusing, not to mention I think potentially handy.

Same with stuff like perhaps a magnetic system or adhesive whatnots so it can climb walls.

Now I know a typical obvious hand has 4 capacity which is basically enough for only one or two things but a lower arm has 10, which is much more.

Additionally, if I want my cyberhand to have an autoinjector with a hypodermic needle attached to it in order that I can jab someone with and inject them with the contents, does that necessitate a fingertip compartment?

Furthermore, is a fingertip compartment only the fingertip or is it as I'm imagining, the entire finger is hollowed out and modified? I think it'd be just dandy to have a guy with a pneumatic jack in his hand that'd store a cigarette in a finger, pop it up on command and then be able to light it with a lighter concealed in the thumb.

Probably a GM call on this one, but do smuggling compartments consist solely of what is more or less a hollowed tube and little more or does it include a device for snagging, inserting, and retrieving the object?

Same example as above except instead of a cigarette the guy has a cigar stored in a smuggling compartment. He'd command it to open up and pop the cigar into his hand, similar to a cyberholster and he then lights it with the aforementioned thumb lighter.

I suppose all that really involves is buying and modding the compartment, but I'm still curious a to how the whole operation works because if I get a large one installed and stuff it with a grenade or some throwing knives, it'd be cool to be able to rig it to slide'em into my hand or make it so that it'd pop it out and I can drop it into my palm.
The Jopp
Another thing with the radar. How would you describe the visual representation in a characters POV?

I mean, I've got this character with a Drone Hand with MAD scanner, Motion Sensor and the character got a Radar rating 4 and a cyberware scanner.

According to the descriptions he would gain an X-Ray visual of anyone he looks at and see guns, gear, cyberware and what brand of undies that hot little gunbabe is wearing among other things.

That not just a handy piece of ware it's pure gold when looking for hidden equipment, or for a pickpocket no less to know where the wallet is hidden...

Oh, and another thing. Although one can control the Drone Hand as a drone when it pops off there shouldn't be anything against using its onboard sensors through mental command while it is attached right?
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (The Jopp)
Another thing with the radar. How would you describe the visual representation in a characters POV?

I've always used the descriptive terminology from Snowcrash for this device. When it pulses there is a density and metal echoe that the sensor detects - represented visually by various hues and intensities of green until the pulse fades away. YMMV of course, but the device was literarily handled well by Stephenson so there's no reason not to just copy it and run.

-Frank
The Jopp
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)

I've always used the descriptive terminology from Snowcrash for this device. When it pulses there is a density and metal echoe that the sensor detects - represented visually by various hues and intensities of green until the pulse fades away. YMMV of course, but the device was literarily handled well by Stephenson so there's no reason not to just copy it and run.

-Frank

True, the classical radar pulse would work but after that there is no problem with having the software keeping that data in your visual field, effectively giving you a clear image without the radar "pulse" so to speak.

Im starting to imagine this as those new "x-ray" cameras that can see through clothes.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (The Jopp)
True, the classical radar pulse would work but after that there is no problem with having the software keeping that data in your visual field, effectively giving you a clear image without the radar "pulse" so to speak.

Actually, hwith those wavelengths, there is no problem in pusling fast enough that the user never notices the pulses.

QUOTE (The Jopp)
Im starting to imagine this as those new "x-ray" cameras that can see through clothes.

Those are passive and aready implemented - see Cyber Scanner.
Buster
New question (maybe already answered): Does the Genetic Heritage positive quality also apply to bioware-as-genetech or just the genetech listed in Augmentation (starting on p72)? In other words, can I start the game with a Synaptic Booster 2 for 10 bp?
neko128
For how Radar is presented in the character's POV, I can't think of a good reason why it wouldn't be highly customizable. The whole thing is processed and then fed as data to your visualization controller (be it glasses, cybereyes, or a sim module) anyway.

For myself, when thinking about ultrasound in older editions, in my head I always saw it as kindof a featureless grey blob (like an objected rendered by a 3D application with no texture applied) inserted into the field of vision, since it wouldn't have any color information associated with it. I'm leaning towards thinking of Radar Sense the same way. Another option, though, could be wire-frame overlays, as if things were glowing through the objects hiding them; or maybe even user-controlled "depth of view" so that it shows you what you would be able to see at a specific distance - guessing at colors, or just assigning grayscale. Or maybe "fading", so that it makes things closer than the range you've set it to to be semi-transparent...
Cthulhudreams
QUOTE (Buster)
New question (maybe already answered): Does the Genetic Heritage positive quality also apply to bioware-as-genetech or just the genetech listed in Augmentation (starting on p72)? In other words, can I start the game with a Synaptic Booster 2 for 10 bp?

And whether or not this is true, is it bound by the availability limits? Ie can I get 'Genewipe' with my genetic heritage.

neko128
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams)
QUOTE (Buster @ Aug 8 2007, 07:45 AM)
New question (maybe already answered):  Does the Genetic Heritage positive quality also apply to bioware-as-genetech or just the genetech listed in Augmentation (starting on p72)?  In other words, can I start the game with a Synaptic Booster 2 for 10 bp?

And whether or not this is true, is it bound by the availability limits? Ie can I get 'Genewipe' with my genetic heritage.

I think the much more important question is "Can I get Synaptic Boosters III" or "Can I get a Suprathyroid Gland" with the heritage one, myself. But whatever floats your boat!
the_dunner
QUOTE (Buster)
New question (maybe already answered): Does the Genetic Heritage positive quality also apply to bioware-as-genetech or just the genetech listed in Augmentation (starting on p72)? In other words, can I start the game with a Synaptic Booster 2 for 10 bp?

I'd say just the Genetech from that chapter. To be more specific, going through my notes, it looks like a name may have been changed in one place, but not another. Genetic Heritage really should just refer to Transgenics (p.90-93).

PlatonicPimp
Cyberlimb questions answered (but be warned, these are semi-official house rules based on previous conversations in this thread):

The capacity for your cyberhand is already figured in the main book. So if you get a drone hand, it effectively takes up the capacity that your hand normally would. This capacity depends on whether your arm is synthetic or obvious.

You can figure out how much capacity is in the lower arm by taking the value from the main book and subtracting the value for the hand.

You can figure out the capacity for the upper arm by subtracting the value for the lower arm from the main book from the full cyberlimb.

I'd make a table but I'm at work. Actually, I'll make it later when I get home and post it.

As far as capacity upgrades to obvious limbs: You can get up to 4 per limb. I'd rule that in the case of arm: 1 is added to the hand, 2 to the lower arm, and 1 to the upper arm. In the case of legs, I'd add 1 to the foot, 1 to the lower leg, and 2 to the upper.

I'd let you use the sensors from your drone hand when attached. It does not have the body of the limb, it has the body of the walker drone from the book.
Marwynn
Question: Trid Phantasm vs Radar

My reading of this is that Trid Phantasm creates the illusion of physicality. In other words, it seems real. Camouflage and invisibility spells can be seen through by Radar, which after all would just bounce the pulse off you regardless of how light isn't bending around you, but what of Trid Phantasm?

Or Physical Double Image?

It says that it's insubstantial. So I'm guessing the Double Image will just be plain ignored by Radar?

Cthulhudreams
QUOTE (the_dunner)
QUOTE (Buster @ Aug 8 2007, 07:45 AM)
New question (maybe already answered):  Does the Genetic Heritage positive quality also apply to bioware-as-genetech or just the genetech listed in Augmentation (starting on p72)?  In other words, can I start the game with a Synaptic Booster 2 for 10 bp?

I'd say just the Genetech from that chapter. To be more specific, going through my notes, it looks like a name may have been changed in one place, but not another. Genetic Heritage really should just refer to Transgenics (p.90-93).

Check out 'Transgenic Alteration' on page 93, specifically the stuff under animal features, which says you can get bioware as genetech.
Ol' Scratch
...for the purposes of gaining functional Animal Features and nothing more.
Rotbart van Dainig
After reading it, I now truely hate the Biosculpting rules.

Cosmetic 'cybernetic' modifications don't cost essence. Now suddenly, 'bio' versions that should integrate better by fluff cost essence.
But hey - Fiberoptic Hair is listed as one of the essence-free mods in the main book... and in Augmention, it suddenly does.

And, what mods:
Breaking and resetting bones now costs essence?
Sanding down troll dermal deposites does so, too?
Oh, and getting cybernetic cat ears costs no essence, but getting biological dog ears is a moderate modification and costs 0,3 points.

Great. When does cutting your nails will cost essence?
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Marwynn)
Question: Trid Phantasm vs Radar

My reading of this is that Trid Phantasm creates the illusion of physicality. In other words, it seems real. Camouflage and invisibility spells can be seen through by Radar, which after all would just bounce the pulse off you regardless of how light isn't bending around you, but what of Trid Phantasm?

Or Physical Double Image?

It says that it's insubstantial. So I'm guessing the Double Image will just be plain ignored by Radar?

In general, "multi-sense" illusions will fool Radar and "single-sense" illusions will not. Double Image will allow bullets and sonic death rays to go through, but it will nonetheless appear to ultrasound and radar recorders as if it were a real person.

So yeah, Trid Phantasm, Chaotic World, Bugs, Dream, and Vehicle Mask would all fool a Radar Sense.

-Frank
Ancient History
Incidentally, single-sense illusions geared toward technological senses can be absolutely hilarious. It works best when the magician can't automatically tell people it's an illusion, but it fucks with players' heads something fierce to have something that registers for one sense but not others.
Marwynn
I'm trying to convince my GM to let me have technology only spells. Hah, thought you could hide behind an invisibility spell did you?

Thanks Mr. Trollman, that just gives my poor Mage something to use against this Bounty Hunter I designed (yes my GM is that twisted, sending NPCs against me that I minmax). Astral Sight, Spirit Knack (Air), internal GPS, Radar, and Ultrasound with cyber eyes and ears is one tough bloodhound to ditch.

I knew I should've taken Interference.
Jérémie
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Incidentally, single-sense illusions geared toward technological senses can be absolutely hilarious.

I'm not sure one can design such a global single sense spell. Technological sensor can use quite a large array of various sensors.
Ancient History
I mean you'd have a spell geared toward a single technological sense. An illusion that only worked for radar sense, for example, or an illusion that only worked for ultrasound vision.
PlatonicPimp
Like, say, a spell that makes you invisible to cameras but not to people. This is the exact opposite of the normal situation, where someone casts a mana-illusion that the people see but the camera picks up. YOu want all versions of these spells. Why? Imagine if you are the spider at a facility. YOu are getting visual reports from the guards in one location, but nothing shows up on camera. Meanwhile, you see something on your camera somewhere else, but the guards report nothing. Which of these do you send the reinforcements to? Most security people will be aware that typical illusions work on people, and the the better ones also work on camera, but who's ever heard of an illusion that worked on sensors but not people? I'd say at least 75% of the time the security would go for the group on camera.

See how useful it can be?
Synner
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Aug 8 2007, 10:58 PM)
Cosmetic 'cybernetic' modifications don't cost essence. Now suddenly, 'bio' versions that should integrate better by fluff cost essence. But hey - Fiberoptic Hair is listed as one of the essence-free mods in the main book... and in Augmention, it suddenly does.

Whoa. Actually that is a slip in the organization of the main book, not Augmentation. The vast majority of cosmetic implants listed under Cyberware/Bodyware in SR4 are actually what under the advanced rules are identified as biosculpting modifications or cosmetic bioware and not cyberware (with the notable exception of Fiberoptic hair). This will be addressed in upcoming errata/FAQs.

The one mistake in Biosculpting rules (p.61) is that a redirect that should have been to p.126 is noted as p.33 instead (kind of obvious since p.33 does not, in fact, contain the Cosmetic Surgery/Biosculpting rules but rather Cosmetic Cyberware). This has been detected and is listed for upcoming errata.

QUOTE
And, what mods:
Breaking and resetting bones now costs essence?
Sanding down troll dermal deposits does so, too?

As part of a moderately complex procedure such as reshaping the face or lengthening leg height then yes., breaking bones and resetting them differently does indeed cost 0.1 essence from your bioware total. Sanding down all the dermal deposits on a troll's body and head to give him a clean-skinned appearance and performing whatever procedures are necessary for them not to regrow does indeed cost all of 0.1 Essence from your biototal.

QUOTE
Oh, and getting cybernetic cat ears costs no essence, but getting biological dog ears is a moderate modification and costs 0,3 points.

Getting fully-functional, nerve-rewired, parabolic, full motion range-enabled, new muscular groups-grafted dog ears does indeed cost 0.3 to-0.5 Essence (from your bioware total) depending on how much work the GM thinks the mod requires. Same for putting your eyes on a pair of 3 inch, prehensile stalks on your shoulders btw.
Eleazar
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
QUOTE (Marwynn @ Aug 8 2007, 04:49 PM)
Question: Trid Phantasm vs Radar

My reading of this is that Trid Phantasm creates the illusion of physicality. In other words, it seems real. Camouflage and invisibility spells can be seen through by Radar, which after all would just bounce the pulse off you regardless of how light isn't bending around you, but what of Trid Phantasm?

Or Physical Double Image?

It says that it's insubstantial. So I'm guessing the Double Image will just be plain ignored by Radar?

In general, "multi-sense" illusions will fool Radar and "single-sense" illusions will not. Double Image will allow bullets and sonic death rays to go through, but it will nonetheless appear to ultrasound and radar recorders as if it were a real person.

So yeah, Trid Phantasm, Chaotic World, Bugs, Dream, and Vehicle Mask would all fool a Radar Sense.

-Frank

With one caveat. You must beat the object resistance of the device. In this case I believe it is 4. So you must cast these sort of spells at Force 4 or higher and get 4 or more hits.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Synner)
Actually that is a slip in the organization of the main book, not Augmentation. The vast majority of cosmetic implants listed under Cyberware/Bodyware in SR4 are actually what under the advanced rules are identified as biosculpting modifications or cosmetic bioware and not cyberware (with the notable exception of Fiberoptic hair). This will be addressed in upcoming errata/FAQs.

As long as you don't errata the main book, you got Augmention contradicting the main book.
And if you can errata the main book to make Augmention stop contradicting it... what about fixing som other issues?

QUOTE (Synner)
As part of a moderately complex procedure such as reshaping the face or lengthening leg height then yes., breaking bones and resetting them differently does indeed cost 0.1 essence from your bioware total.

..so if Joe Average breaks his Arm and never sees a doctor because he can't pay, it grows together crude and he lost 0,1 points of essence. No... just... no.
That stuff is done routinely today. If you start down that road, artificial hips will start cost essence.

QUOTE (Synner)
Sanding down all the dermal deposits on a troll's body and head to give him a clean-skinned appearance and performing whatever procedures are necessary for them not to regrow does indeed cost all of 0.1 Essence from your biototal.

You should emphasize the latter part in Errata.

QUOTE (Synner)
Getting fully-functional, nerve-rewired, parabolic, full motion range-enabled, new muscular groups-grafted dog ears does indeed cost 0.3 to-0.5 Essence (from your bioware total) depending on how much work the GM thinks the mod requires.

But getting fully functional cybernetic Cat ears is still free?
Dashifen
I don't think Synner is saying that average Joe with a broken arm loses essence. But if average Joe goes to a street doc who breaks his arm, adds length to it in a surgical process, and heals it so that Joe is now quite literally a knuckle-dragger, then Joe loses essence.

Rotbart van Dainig
But that got nothing to do with Bioware - it's already done today.

And honstely, if the main book goes 'Sure, cosmetic stuff is essence free - go and style up your character whatever he wants', then Augmention telling us '..but expect to pay a steep price in Essence for it' is a major problem with Augmention, not the main book.
BattleJester
Ok, I hope I'm not a repeater of questions, I've scanned the Augmentation forums. Here are some questions of mine:

Below are costs that don't match up from the tables on p.89 and p. 173 of Augmentation.

Phenotype adjustments:
Genewipe 60k/ 45k
Shuffle 30k/ 40k

Transgenics:
Adapsin 30k/ 40k
Daredrenaline 25k/ 40k
Dynomitin 25k/ 30k
Hyper-Glucagon 20k/ 25k
Neo-EPO 25k/ 35k
Qualia 25k/ 40k
Reakt 30k/ 45k
Synch 30k/ 40k
Vasocon 25k/ 30k

Which costs are the correct ones?

I assume that if you have the Exceptional Attribute quality (for Strength, Body, or Agility), your Customized Cyberlimb (Augmentation p.44) will be able to start at the modified natural attribute maximum. Am I correct? For instance, an Orc with Strength 9 (from Exceptional Attribute), can also make his Cyber Arm have a starting Strength of 9.

If you take the Genetic Optimization (Augmentation p.89) as a starting character, can you pay points to increase your attribute? For instance, a Troll with Body 10 (65 points) who takes Genetic Optimization and spends 10 more points to make it 11.

When Sync, Augmentation p. 91, refers to Combat Tests, this means both Ranged and Unarmed AND on the attack and on the defense, right?

Thanks for your responses.
Synner
QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Aug 9 2007, 12:10 PM)
QUOTE (Synner)
Actually that is a slip in the organization of the main book, not Augmentation. The vast majority of cosmetic implants listed under Cyberware/Bodyware in SR4 are actually what under the advanced rules are identified as biosculpting modifications or cosmetic bioware and not cyberware (with the notable exception of Fiberoptic hair). This will be addressed in upcoming errata/FAQs.

As long as you don't errata the main book, you got Augmention contradicting the main book. And if you can errata the main book to make Augmention stop contradicting it... what about fixing som other issues?

Catalyst is continuously fixing what we think needs fixing. We will continue to issue errata (for the corebook and Unwired) when and if it's necessary.

QUOTE
..so if Joe Average breaks his Arm and never sees a doctor because he can't pay, it grows together crude and he lost 0,1 points of essence. No... just... no.

Somehow I don't see how that qualifies as either cosmetic surgery or biosculpting as defined in the book but have it your own way...

QUOTE
That stuff is done routinely today. If you start down that road, artificial hips will start cost essence.

"Cosmetic surgery" and "biosculpting" imply by their very definition voluntary cosmetic changes to the way things look as well as how they function. If we had intended it to apply to hip replacements we would have called it "remedial surgery" or "trauma surgery."

Cosmetic surgery and Biosculpting rules are only intended to be used when someone walks into a clinic and asks to have cosmetic work done on them. Does that mean that it covers disfigured burn victims? Yes. Though since we didn't give a value for that its up to the GM to wing it.

QUOTE
QUOTE (Synner)
Sanding down all the dermal deposits on a troll's body and head to give him a clean-skinned appearance and performing whatever procedures are necessary for them not to regrow does indeed cost all of 0.1 Essence from your biototal.

You should emphasize the latter part in Errata.

Why? The cost is what the cost is. Errata won't change that and wordcount is always at a premium. We might clarify something to that intent in a FAQ if a lot of people bring it up.

QUOTE
QUOTE (Synner)
Getting fully-functional, nerve-rewired, parabolic, full motion range-enabled, new muscular groups-grafted dog ears does indeed cost 0.3 to-0.5 Essence (from your bioware total) depending on how much work the GM thinks the mod requires.

But getting fully functional cybernetic Cat ears is still free?

I reiterate, in case you didn't get my previous point. There are was never an intention of introducing "cybernetic cat ears" (and if there were they'd be a mod on normal cyberears - like the cybereye mod - and the ear itself would have an Essence cost). Those and several other mods in the same entry were erroneously grouped under Cyberware / Bodyware when they should have been Basic Bioware (and the Cosmetic Modifications in Cyberware / Bioware should technically have contained small metal horns, spikes, studs and pins (as well as the fiberoptic hair previously mentioned).

Hopefully in the next errata for the BBB, relevant entries on the tables will be updated to read Essence 0-0.5.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Synner)
Catalyst is continuously fixing what we think needs fixing. We will continue to issue errata (for the corebook and Unwired) when and if its necessary.

So there is still hope. nyahnyah.gif

QUOTE (Synner)
Why?

Because as it is now, it sounds like if a Troll maintains body hygiene with an orbital sander would make him lose essence. wink.gif

QUOTE (Synner)
Somehow I don't see how that qualifies as either cosmetic surgery or biosculpting as defined in the book but have it your own way...

Because biologically, it is exactly the same as elongating or straightening your legs by breaking them and make them heal.
Synner
QUOTE (BattleJester)
Below are costs that don't match up from the tables on p.89 and p. 173 of Augmentation.

Phenotype adjustments:
Genewipe 60k/ 45k
Shuffle 30k/ 40k

Transgenics:
Adapsin 30k/ 40k
Daredrenaline 25k/ 40k
Dynomitin 25k/ 30k
Hyper-Glucagon 20k/ 25k
Neo-EPO 25k/ 35k
Qualia 25k/ 40k
Reakt 30k/ 45k
Synch 30k/ 40k
Vasocon 25k/ 30k

Which costs are the correct ones?

The prices on p.88 thru 94 are the correct ones. We adjusted gene treatment costs late in production and we must have missed updating the charts at the back of the book that were already finished. One more for errata.

QUOTE
I assume that if you have the Exceptional Attribute quality (for Strength, Body, or Agility), your Customized Cyberlimb (Augmentation p.44) will be able to start at the modified natural attribute maximum.  Am I correct?  For instance, an Orc with Strength 9 (from Exceptional Attribute), can also make his Cyber Arm have a starting Strength of 9.

This is correct. The limbs are customized to the individual user's stats.

QUOTE
If you take the Genetic Optimization (Augmentation p.89) as a starting character, can you pay points to increase your attribute?  For instance, a Troll with Body 10 (65 points) who takes Genetic Optimization and spends 10 more points to make it 11.

Technically yes, if you fork out the 45000Y at chargen for Genetic Optimization you also raise your racial attribute maximum and get one more attribute point in at 10 BP. As always check with your GM though, he might rule it differently.

QUOTE
When Sync, Augmentation p. 91, refers to Combat Tests, this means both Ranged and Unarmed AND on the attack and on the defense, right?

Yes.
otakusensei
Key point of the physical changes (limb extension, replacement hip, nose ring) is the fundamental physiological change. You have to ask if there is a tranhuman difference in play.

If you have bits of graphed skin and fake cartilage surgically attached to the top of your head to look like cat ears... you're a bit odd but you aren't losing essence. No more than someone who has a hair transplant. If you have bioware car ears grown and surgically attached, with a rerouting of nerve endings and motor control, then and passage through your skull and rerouting of middle ear functions... that costs essence.

If your troll sands down his rough bits Hellboy style? No essence, but a massive headache. If he has his genetic makeup modified so that they will not grow any further but allows skin to replace them, that's essence right there.

If you get a tongue stud, it costs you financially and socially. If you have a shock pad implanted into your tongue with a DNI trigger, that costs essence.

Pins in you arm to help set a broken bone? That's a good question. Born with one limb 2cm short than the other so you have it broken, seperated and allowed to heal so it matches the other? That's a question too.

Edit: Those last two are really essence cost theory questions. If that sort of thing comes up in your game you need to back off a bit.
Penta
Synner: Would it be wrong to say that Essence, as portrayed in Augmentation, is based somewhat off of the Aristotelian concept of the 'forms'?

(It's been way too long since Political Philosophy for me to explain it in any coherent way, hopefully someone gets what I mean...)
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Synner)
...and wordcount is always at a premium.

Good thing we got those much-needed rules for cybercocks and cybertits, then.
the_dunner
QUOTE (Penta)
Synner: Would it be wrong to say that Essence, as portrayed in Augmentation, is based somewhat off of the Aristotelian concept of the 'forms'?

While I can't speak to how Synner envisions it, that's how I've always looked at it.
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