Yeah? And what rules would that be, exactly?

Actually, Cyberware Suites is pretty much the way to go.

I think he is speaking of the Implant Interconnectivity Rules, pg. 46 Man&Machine.

The full extend of those rules are made possible by the description under the header of Cyberware in the main book gear chapter: Implants can be wired to each other. Disable wireless, and you are back to SR3.

I think he was more referencing the essence discounts you got for having cyberlimbs when getting bone lacing. I think this is best replicated using the cybersuite rules.

and the big bad spider catches the fly

I think - therefore I fail

the interconnectivity part was one hell of a bitch to do propperly . . even for someone who in RL works in the computing/networking business x.x . .
routers, even with 10 ports were not enough to connect the important bits to each other . . so you would have to cascade the routers . . and then draw up networking topography of your character on the back of the char-sheet . .

Thanks for the answers guys, i greatly appreciate your input. I wasn't really sure about the cybersuits and thought that some boni were too meager, but after doing some examples it kind of worked out.

I guess i will handle synergy effects as cybersuites then.

At first i considered the 10% discount as a little small for some implants. Combining spurs with muscle replacement (2) , bone lacing (plastic) and dermal plating (1), for example. Installing a spur onto a heavily modified bone surrounded by synthetic muscles and almost artificial skin and still paying 0,27 essence for it seemed like a lot. Then again, all mentioned implants got that discount (spur, bone lacing, muscle replacement, dermal plating cost a total of 3,3) which in turn makes the spur a freebee - so it kind of adds up.


There are two other question i have.


1. Bone Lacing. Ceramic, Aluminum, Plastic and Titanium are augumenting "the cellular structure" of the bones while kevlar bone lacing "weaves a protective ballistic mesh around the individual’s bones". Are they mutually exclusive or can i combine plastic (and other) bone lacing with kevlar bone lacing? Maybe i don't understand the concept of it properly, so i'd like to to know what others think about it or how they handle it.

2. Cyberlimbs. What happens with bodyware (i.e. dermal plating/sheath, bone lacing, muscle replacement etc.) once i chop off a leg and replace it with a cyberlimb? Or the other way around? Since dermal sheath is incompatible with cyberlimbs does that simply mean a cyberlimb can't be installed while a person has a sheath and vice versa? And if it can be installed does some one with 3 cyberlimbs get only a cybersuite style 10% discount on muscle replacement? I know that some of the answers seem pretty obvious, but i'm interested to know how others gamers handle it.



How do you apply the discount for somone that has 3 cyberlimbs and gets bone lacing? Does that person get a discount on already implanted cyberware or how do you suggest handling it?



That might be a little over the top but i know what you are talking about. I actually liked it that way. Maybe i'm insane, but then again, i liked the SR3 matrix rules too.

never mind...

Bone Lacing is exactly that - lacing to increase the bone's strength, regardless of its type. It does absolutely nothing to "the cellular structure" of the bones, & is mutually exclusive from other forms of lacing.

Restated question:

Are the Articulated Weapon-Arm and the External Mount retractable or are they actually intended to turn destroy the user's subtlety?

There were retractable versions in the third edition and I would dearly miss them. Would make cyberlimbs a little more versatile and suck less.

Considering the amount of Capacity they take up, I'd imagine they were retractable. Somehow I can't see physically strapping a device to a limb as eating up very much Capacity. But that's just me.

I would agree. An always-extended version would be worthless, and take much less capacity. Maybe a question for the FAQ.

Loathe as I am to dig up a dead topic, let alone have three posts as the most recent, I don't want to start a new thread.

So, Léonization. I can't help but notice it doesn't have an essence cost, but it states in the text for it it has a significant impact on the holistic health of the body. Is this a mistake, or does it just do really nice things to the body rather than horrible unnatural things?

..an appropriate plotpoint for any campaign running over hundred years that is.

Given how Léonization improved within 20 years, it could as well be a non-issue by then.

I know about the small matter of death should it take place too many times, but it seems like something as invasive as resetting your genetic code is likely to have a few effects on your essence.

Except resetting is not invasive at all. It is altering, or implanting foreign parts, that is invasive. Anything restoring your body to the original does not cost essence.

Fair enough. Settles the argument with the GM, then.

Of course, knowing our dear, blindingly cruel gm, the elf getting the treatment is likely to go into cell death or grow extra eyeballs on his feet for giggles.

I couldn't read the whole topic, can anyone tell me if a "dice pool" before the "modifier" at the PuSHeD transgenetic implant was left out on purpose or not? That would make it the only implant of this categorie that doesn't modify the dice pool and modifies the skill rating instead of that.

Does the Orthoskin Electroshock Upgrade allow the use of the Cyber-Implant specialization of Unarmed Combat, like Shock Hands?

What are the costs for second-hand bioware? (Aug p.61) Same as second-hand cyberware?

By common sense, i think it should.




Yes, although there are some additional limitations.
No 2nd hand cultured (read = neural) bioware, no 2nd hand ware at all for Type O System characters.

I'm having some trouble with the search, so my apologies if this has been asked before.

If I buy a Rating 3 Dermal Sheath, can I purchase Chameleon Modification for it, or do I have to buy the Ruthenium Polymer Coating first?

You have to buy the Ruthenium first. The sensors for the chameleon option are on top of that.

Wow, really? 24R Availability just for some fairly crappy invisible skin?

Availability 22R to make your heavily armored skin able to make you invisible, or give you any skin colour you want. Yes.

But it's not really invisibility, unless you're naked (thus only having 4 ballistic armor from the skin) and standing still. Hardly seems worth it when a chameleon suit gives you 6 ballistic armor, gives you a better bonus, and costs a fraction of the amount. I thought the whole point of cyberware was that there was some benefit to having it? Other than someone who really, really loves Ghost in the Shell, who else would benefit from something like this?

Assassins and other intrusion specialists come to mind, plus escape situations. You are armored and able to hide even when you are naked. The option is only really useful in a limited type or situation, but then the +4R is fully justified. Cyberware scanners will just detect the Dermal Sheat, which is in itself is legal. And the base price is easily justified by the basic armor bonus.

It is certainly not a must-have option - the ruthenium alone will do - but it has uses.

The +4R is one thing, but having to add the other +2 for Ruthenium seems needlessly punitive, especially when the build isn't all that great to start with. Why would an assassin want to be naked on a job? Wouldn't it be better to ust wear a chameleon suit, have the same "invisibility" bonus, MORE ARMOR, and save tens of thousands of nuyen and months of surgery?

Because a chameleon suit might bring unwanted questions for someone who is supposed to be a surfer (one example), as might in fact any clothing that covers the full body. Someone who captures you and takes all your gear will not leave you with any kind of decent armor. If you go to a certain kind of party/club, naked is not THAT far from the truth either.

If you look at the whole implant as just a source of chameleon capabilities, it is way too expensive. On the other hand, if you want the dermal sheath for it´s protection, adding that last option for stealth might be interesting. There are two types of users, those who simply want "even more" protection, and those who would be looking at "the only armor I can bring, plus chameleon option".

As for the +2/+4R: Sheats with ruthenium are rare compared to basic sheats, and sheats with chameleon option are highly restricted - and even harder to get. Since we are talking an availability of 16 base, there is little reason to care about smallish mods on top. IMO. (Try an aquisition dp of 12+.)

What sorts of drugs can be put into an auto-injector? I've seen mentions of liquefied trauma patches, nanite from the Savior Medkit tied to a biomonitor, distillate of Immortal Flower, to a cocktail of Antibac Biomed + General Antibiotics + Universal Nanidotes applied in a single shot. What are the limits?

Dermal sheathing doesn't look like regular skin though; that's orthoskin. Anyone who gets close or touches you knows that you've got a dermal sheath. If your goal is concealable armor in an emergency (a worthy goal, particularly for a face), then rating 3 orthoskin makes a lot more sense.

Technically there are not limits, but I would like an answer too.

I'd personally say 3. 2 gives you options, 3 expands your options, but 4+ just gets silly. Plus, 3 would be fairly minute doses of the drugs to begin with, but still theorhetically enought to give you the punch you need. 4+, the individual doses would be too small to work properly.

Don't forget about the rules for increasing the Addiction test by Speedballing...

It more or less turns from a "how much can I put in" to a "how many drugs can I afford to be addicted to."

Due to cyberware scanners, they can easily know you have the sheat anyway. There is no reference for the touch aspect (as far as I know, and I searched back to cybertechnology), but I understand where you are coming from. I consider orthoskin (bio-sheating) and dermal sheat (advanced polymer sheating) about equal regarding bulk - you should be able to catch them with a perception test, but it is not obvious.


Auto-Injectors can carry up to six doses of (whatever), IF you buy the additional capacity. Combine as you want, use in the order you want. (So you would store Antibac Biomed + General Antibiotics + Universal Nanidotes (3 slots, so maybe two doses each), and release them in the order and at the time you want. "All at once" is possible, as is "as specified by my bio-monitor".)

The poster was talking about loading speedballs into the different injection tubes. Like Psycho and Jazz in one injection.

I wouldn´t handle it that way, because I´d then be out of a limit on the individual speedballs.

If someone wanted more capacity than six doses, a cyberware suite of (biomonitor, Autoinjector(6)*3) could deliver. (And if you want that for "recreational" drugs, consider if 50k¥ for the invoked memory stimulator are a good idea.)

Orthoskin is just a mesh under your skin; it looks normal, because it looks like your skin. And because it's bioware, it won't show up on a scan. Dermal Sheathing is still artificial stuff attached to your skin; it just looks better than dermal plating.

A few quick questions.

I'm trying to create a cyborg PC, but am unsure how to go through the process. I know the procedure is in the Augmentation book, however it is not very clear.

Could someone provide a quick step by step using the OTOMO anthroform drone body from Arsenal pg.120 I would really appreciate it.

Also, does the cyborg simply count as having 4 cyber limbs, cybertorso, and cyberskull when it comes to modifications? Or does it follow different rules?

It states to use the cyborg's body in place of the strength attribute. would that mean I would only have to modify its body attribute to get the effect for both, or do I have to modify the strength of each of the cyberlimbs seperately?

Cyborgs use *completely* different rules. Take the character's brain, flush the rest of his body down the john, put the brain in a jar, dump it into an adapted drone.

"Full-conversion 'borgs" a la CP2020 are more than doable with cybersuites, alpha- or beta-grade cyberware replacing 4xlimbs + torso + skull + eyes + ears, and Adapsin and/or Biocompatability if you feel like it. Getting your cyber-essense mod down to x0.5 while loading Alphaware is amusing That's not what "cyborgs" were presented as, but you can make 'em pretty easily with the existing rules.

Thing is that the skull and torso are shells on top of the existing biomatter, not full replacements. So your much more human that way then when going borg...

So then lets say I wanted to modify the anthroform drones body, or agility. Would I just use delta cyberlimb mods and do it limb by limb? There's vehicle modifications in the arsenal book, but the only mod on the list which I need is the (concealed) armor mod. There are no physical attribute mods. Are these drone modification rules in another book or am I just not finding them?

Yes, I could do full cyber-replacement, but that is not what I am going for. It's part of the story that I'm writing, which is why it is necessary he be a full borg and not a full cyber-replaced man.

A cyborg in an anthroform drone uses the drone rules. You're basically rigging yourself. You don't use any cyberware rules or mods. You don't use the regular skill rules for humanoid characters. In fact, you don't even have an agility attribute, just as you have no actual reaction attribute (and you strength is of mostly anecdotal value).
Take a look at the drone combat rules, there's a table telling you what values rigged drones use instead of those attributes for different tasks.

Ok, I get the part about the drones following drone rules in combat.

My main question is, can I improve a specific drone's physical/mechanical body? Is there a way to take the stock OTOMO with base body attribute of 6, and increase it, thus retroactively increasing its strength?