Fear isn't 'a bit scared' it is blind unreasoning terror! But just to be safe I'll get a second opinion from my fellow GMs!

So since we were not on the same page, atleast let me burn edge to undo it. It is not fun to give up any control of the one character that I am playing. She is terrified, but she is not stupid - she quickly understands that running is not an option for her. No hope of escaping and just let the same dogs she handled very well before bite her to death? Does she really become helpless ?

What happens with her Shark mentor ? When she takes physical damage she gives in to battle loses herself and sees only blood in her eyes and take no concern of her physical safety - can she even do that with this interpretation of fear? I burned Dana with the lion to reflect that.


Would you make her behave the same if she was in a locked room? Just sit there and take it? It is a sad way to go.

4.1 finishes with Dana with 4 physical boxes - She attacked the ubber one(the first one that attacked her) Figured its more reasonable as self defense rather than seek combat.


Initiative: 12+4d6 24
Some rolls:
IP1: Unarmed: 13d6t5 7 * (no killing hands so no -2 from BGC)
Defense test: 14d6t5 4 (
3 more dice due to no mutagen: 3d6t5 1

hit +2, damage resistance:
Damage resistance: 10d6t5 [b]4[/

Ubber guy takes 8 physical damage.

Jack seems to be with you on the fear effect so I will let you strike at the dogs in round 4...but a random target please, no tactics or careful weighing of better targets. As soon as you are wounded Shark will override the fear effects and you will be free to butcher at will...although I'm reluctant to let you be Full Def and Beserk...so not sure how to play that one! I'm assuming you were rolling Full Def to dodge all those hits

As Adam pointed out, there are mods for attacking while running (although not listed in the melee modifiers table) it is in the charge description so I think a -2D mod is appropriate as you can't fight like you would normally...

Go figure if she will actually be hit in 4 because she might be before Radhound... just saying.

Sorry, not sure I followed that? Let's have your initiative for 4, that's the earliest you can attack the dogs, select randomly each time and we'll work from there. If you take out a hound I'll adjust the rolls I made... reluctantly, took bloody ages to work out that lot lol

Initiative: 12+4d6 24

4.1 finishes with Dana unharmed (I think) I rolled a dice to see what beast she'll attack:
1 for uber, 2 for rad 1 3 rad 2: 1d3 3
So Dana attacked Rad 2 at initiative 24.
IP1: Unarmed: 13d6t5 7 * (no killing hands so no -2 from BGC)
He has just 2-3 hit points so she basically dead.

So Rad2 - did not survive long enough and Rad1 charged Dana instead of 2. (He had 4 less dice due to no teamwork) I rerolled for him because I did not have Aria's roll:
Charge attack: 15d6t5 8 -
Incredible roll but that means he only get grazzling hit against Dana - as she had 8 successes in her full defense.

The IP ends with one less Rad, and Dana is still terrified. She is at initiative 4, with full defense.

Ouch... there's a prime example of RAW not making sense... FD being triggered after your first action so you get bursts of uber def without any limits on first attack... ah well, it would seem to be in the rules

Should have been a D4 for your targets but never mind this round

Rad2 will edge its dodge if possible to evade. Did you take -2D for running?

Can you link your def rolls vs the dog, radhound and uberhound please?

Finally thought of something that Addie can do -- whether or not Sim/Caitlin will follow the request, or if it is in time to matter, I don't know. Sorry that I didn't think of it a round sooner. (if Dana had run vaguely towards the group probably would have had Addie overcome her misgivings to try and use Leadership to bolster Dana, but they've charged off in nearly the opposite direction.)

Also Addie hasn’t been around Caitlin enough to know she is a pacifist she just knows that magicians seem to have spirits who can travel all over the place fast and help fight things, and Caitlin and Sim are magicians, so she is assuming they can do this. As a player I recognize that Addie’s idea may not play out (of course if they don’t/can’t help, that doesn’t mean that she won’t blame them anyway …. )

was wondering when someone will come to that. rrmember teamwork make dream work;) Aria will post all rolls when I am around computer I had them all but then you allowed dana to defend herself and I deleted them trying to figure out how the phase would go.

Pretty sure you are allowed to suggest such things on here. I'm sorry that I'd been focused on what Addie could/couldn't do, and hadn't thought of trying to marshal the other magicians.

BTW, I don't think Addie really knows about astral forms, or she would have been screaming for those too.

Dodge uberhound: 20d6t5 7
Dodge radhound: 19d6t5 7
Dodge dog: 18d6t5 9

FIX: Dana did take 4 physical boxes - I was working from memory sorry for missing out! - I thought I got less hits with 15 dice than Aria got with 19
Lets see if the edge saves mister rad hound:
Defense radhound: 8d6t5 2
reroll failures (Edge): 6d6t5 1
Damage resistance: 10d6t5 2

Rad hound takes 8 + 4 net hits -2 damage resistance = 10 physical boxes and is wiped away beyond overfow.

@Aria I did substract running but I figured that given the situation, Dana would deactivate killing hands and critical strike to avoid payin BGC -2 on her negative, so her dicepool is 17-2 wounds -2 running = 13. (and only 8 physical damage per hit - but well I am trying to have her survive somehow.)

@Beta well it took me a few days to understand in just how deep shit Dana was and how determined her oposition was. Until yesterday I thought she could just flee by turning to a bird, now I doubt she'll survive the next initiative phase. Her only hope (again) is if someone finishes the spirit and the movement power of the dogs ceases. By the time they get another spirit in the summoned manifested and accelerating them, Dana is long gone. If that spirit stays - then 1-2 more hits and Dana lies in a bloody peddle.

I was thinking that F12 lighting ball will make the remaining dogs back down reconsider... afraid maybe - I did not expect seeing half their comrades being exploded will just make them do absolutely anything in their power to retaliate and butcher Dana. This obviously was much more than a pack of dogs... I am kind of curious to learn what there story really is.

I mean if Aria allowed Dana to cast a spell she'd just bird it and escape flying or at least try to. Now my hope is to somehow survive until the fear ends to finish the spirit myself but - well without edge she is one bad roll from dying and these hounds get to extremely high dice pools. (I am almost regretting not optimizing Dana further for combat as our kids seem to need a LOT of protecting.)

Well if you've taken physical damage then you are beserk! So an even chance that you will target the spirit yourself in 4.2! Although no FD while beserk and certainly no running away even if the movement power is gone!

Will probably need to pick this up after the weekend now, sorry, but I think you have enough to write up 4.1, plus someone else can decide what Lindsey's spirit does so I don't influence it unfavourably!

Unfortunately I doubt the other mages will be able to help in time ...couple of rounds to explain, 1 to summon, a few rounds using search power or similar... one way or the other we'll be done...

Looking forward to you lot finding out what is going on...

And surely there isn't much more that you could do to optimise Dana... she's hideous in combat! Not sure she'd be a great shadowrunner but for this game she's awesome! None of the others, even a group, would have lasted long in a direct confrontation!

I'll admit when I conceived these beasties I didn't expect quite the heroics we've seen here

Shape change is a cop out

In all honesty I'm kind of hoping that spirits come anyway -- as a back up, if Dana isn't too deep into overflow (potentially burning an edge point to somehow have survived?), then if the other spirits can drive off the hounds briefly, perhaps Dana can be recovered, and maybe we can keep her alive and heal her over time. I bet Dana would one mighty grumpy patient, mind you, and conditions for healing are terrible, but ... who knows!

(re: shapechange -- I really don't think that spell should be in the game in its current form. In my home game there is only critter form, and it has cast time and essence penalties like the permanent health spells do (but still has to be sustained), and it is still a good spell!)

Where/how far is Dana and the fight from Lindsey at this point if Lindsey had stopped running away once the Beast spirit started laying into her spirit? Realized that's actually relevant to her character and could make the fight more interesting.

Edit: As a reminder Aria, Lindsey has Spirit Bane: Beasts.

Remember that Lindsey has bound spirits - so she can interfere with them - and since she has a summoned spirit at the location they do not need the search power, the bound spirits can just follow the summoned spirits, I think that Lindsey should indeed be able to interfere if she likes to.

Note that I updated this message.

As we didn't specify let's say 'however far is dramatically appropriate' with the caveat that no IC should be retconned. Bear in mind that Dana has moved like shit off a shovel while under the movement power! And away from you all, but the combat has only lasted a few seconds!

Well there is but I think she was strong enough, but I know plenty of ways she could have improved (e.g, magic 7 would have made her elemental body touch = death.
Couple of more points in the unarmed and after we started I figured how to crumb yet another pair of strikin calluses for slightly better damage. The beast way (was there any doubt) for another +1 to damage, agility boost combat senses, higher body. She could be made more vicious - but well I try not to go there - she gets that almighty feeling without actually being immortal. I think Dana is in a good place in that regard. This is why I spent her karma working on social,survival and athletics, I must admit that I did not anticipate the game being so combat difficult but part of it is Dana's personality - that genuienly believes that the monsters out there should fear her and not the other way around.

I planned for her to grab the way of beasts with her interaction with the out doors, pick up melenin control and its enhancement so that she'll turn into a beast when fighting, wolverine like claws and spikes and so forth. Then the grand finale of my vision of her included initiation and taking Apex predator metamagic meaning that beasts acknowledge Dana's greatness and avoid attacking her out of respect or something. I wanted Dana to seriously consider staying in the outdoors as a beast at the end


I remembered when I created her I was considering a super human psychosis but that sounded more suitable for adult Dana rather than the reckless teenage ninja she is.

And here I thought that the guideline at the beginning of the campaign was to be weaker that normal runners. I wonder how Dana could be much stronger. Maya would have died in the opening combat round if these dogs had found her. At this point, I have very strong reservations that the group as a whole can survive given the strength of the lions, the toxic mage that can take over bodies, and these dogs. Were we supposed to have even a chance of making it or is this a planned TPK?

You'll see

Hurm, yeah, with Movement going on everyone else, Lindsey has no way to catch them if they ran away. She does have the bound spirits, but they suffer from that same 2D penalty and that's a limited resource since she has no way to rebind out here in the wilderness (Aspected Summoners not being able to harvest reagents on their own is a giant PITA).

So let's see. 2.1, the spirit notifies Lindsey that a Beast Spirit just roughed it up good. 3.X it uses full defense and dodge and just tries to stay alive and maintain Movement. In the 3 round Lindsey calls up two bound spirits and sends them to 'stop anything from hurting Dana'. Assuming Astral travel is fast, then they should be able to get there in the 4 round? If so, one will chain cast Accident on all the bad guys simultaneously each round (up to 6) while the other will 'physically' try and stop the closest critter to Dana. (I'm assuming they're dual natured and thus there's no need to Manifest).

I'll IC the summoning and sending, let me know if that plan is acceptable based on range, dual natured-ness, etc, and I'll roll that stuff.

They aren't actually dual natured, although the spirit is fair game... so you'll need a complex to manifest

Might I suggest using the 'Fear' power on the dogs for spirit actions. This is not a crunch consideration, I will just admire the irony, of the combat ending with the dogs running away.

I thought all the dog variants with powers were dual natured? No problem then, will manifest.

Fear is single target while Accident hits all at once which raises the chances of at least one success greatly and presumably a glitch while trying to chase Dana will result in tripping or some other variant of slowing them down. Only one of the 3 spirits has Fear anyway.

Edit: Added stuff to the OP fight page. Lemme know if I got anything wrong. If astral travel time takes longer than what I assumed, just move the spirits 3 round to 4.

Oh wow I just read the description of accident I guess I'll wait for Aria - the dogs are going to have some very bad luck... Thanks, if Dana survives she will sure owe it to Lindsey.

Well as I said no retconning let's move your spirits to 4, I will now go and re-read accident

I didn't know what counted as retcon since not much was reflected in the IC thread. No problem with that.

Mostly not having to recalculate bucket loads of rolls

Soon enough for your spirits to cause trouble in 4.1/2

Sorry folks, one of my little ones has been in hospital for a couple of nights, but is home now and on the mend. Normal IC services should resume tomorrow!

Holy moley dude, that is the WORST thing that can happen.

So very happy to hear the kid is getting better!

Prayers and best wishes!

What Adam said. Every parents nightmare.

Nothing nearly as bad, but have been trying to get my kid ready for his freshman Calculus exam ( he got one of those profs who is great... if you already understand the material). Will have brains pace for games again in the next couple of days.

I wish you little ones well.

Ok, back in the saddle more or less... so, I've always been crap at describing suitable glitches...so, in a fit of generosity I invite you players to come up with some please! I've noted the spirit's / dogs' resists after the rolls from Irn0rchid on the OP page...

I think I've got the actions ok...Dana being Berserk possibly complicates things as I don't think you can claim Full Def but should probably still have the initiative penalty...again I throw this open to the rules lawyers for a verdict!

So my read of the current status is Dana kills a dog in 4.1 and goes berzerk, then in 4.2 the spirit is going to fail something miserably, the hound and dog do something poorly, the uberhound will do something then possibly get feared, and Dana will be berzerky. That right? I'll let Gilga describe it since Dana is the main PC there, unless told otherwise.

Dana is Brezerk for 1 combat round (due to her willpower + charisma) roll. I find it harsh that she paid the initiative for full defense but would not benefit from it - but I also find it odd that she would be brezerk for just a single initiative phase. So either we start her brezerk at 5, and she does not 'lose' full defene. Or we start it now and she loses it (I guess?!) I am not very optimistic for her survivability without full defense so I guess it is going to be Lindsey's show quite soon. I just hope that Dana gets to go like crazy on one of these targets.

Well you got the benefit of it for a full phase and that was after you made an attack roll without the initiative penalty so this might just be one of the vageries of the rules that end up not making a whole lot of sense! The pack are now so accident prone that I think you'll live

Will be nice to survive

We'll see!

OP updated but key is: 11 Uberhound: Pre Edge attack on Dana 17D, 8 hits! 6P – 1AP, no full def, damage will be stun due to your armour, we probably should remember to check for knockdown too!

Assuming you live can you still randomise your next target please?

No no randomize, Dana is going after the the beast that harmed her. Before that, she puts elemental body - she understands that there is no way she is going out of that, she just want to take as many of them before she collapses. I'll play her berserk, but please she is my character do not make me roll dice to determine her actions, she was not that strategic in this combat anyhow. (other then the full defense).



Dodge uberhound: 13d6t5 6 So the hound hits with +2 net hits. Dana has 8 armor and the damage baypasses her armor
resist damage: 14d6t5 5

and is physical, she now has 7 physical damage.

still valiant effort but no 8 hits (?!) this is too much for her,
Dana takes 3 physical damage, she has 7 physical and 7 stun. (Ouch!)

+ Complex action Dana activates elemental body -She is going down with a blaze!

---> PS looking at OP - there is a spirit missing, there are 3 of Lindsey's spirits in this combat F4 spirit of man, + 2 F6 spirits (man?)

I am not sure that Dana can be knocked down that easily, her physical limit is 8.

The random was meant to be attacking the closest target but fair enough, the one that wounded you has to be close!

I'm not sure what happened to the Fc4, other than being the target of the crit glitch from the beast spirit... Irn0rchid doesn't seem to have supplied actions for it?!?

I didn't expect you to get knocked down, it's just a rule I frequently forget

So, Dana is in major pain but hardly dead yet!!!

not very far from there, the next hit would drop her from the fight.

The F4 spirit was just maintaining Movement on Dana and using its actions to attempt to not die. Full Defense, Dodge, Run, etc since it's virtually dead. Was giving Dana a way out.

Uberhound used last Edge on that attack right? So at 4.2 init 8 there's a decent chance it gets Feared.

Yes, it will run briefly

It running briefly should let Dana escape, assuming she doesn't chase it.

okay so what else do we need to conclude combat turn 4? Dana is out of actions.

initiative: 12+4d6 31

Btw are wound modifiers cummulative? is Dana at -2 or -4 if the latter initiative should be lower 2 more points.

Yes, stun and physical damage mods are cumulative...

Dana is berserk for all of 5 but I think there are still other targets without chasing any that run...

Should be able to sort the end of 4 today!

I've updated Dog Fight on OP...some resists from Simon please, I rolled Dana's for her against the dog as it didn't seem too critical...but you can re-roll if you want?

https://stormy-waters-2075.obsidianportal.c...wikis/dog-fight

Dana has 17 dice to fight with her fists, -2 background count, -4 wound penalties, +2 touch only attack. She'll target the radhound that wounded her in the first place.
unarmed touch: 13d6t5 6
Dodge radhound: 8d6t5 3
Damage is 12P -3AP, I think he's pretty much toast.