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Stahlseele
QUOTE (DMiller @ May 6 2013, 09:33 AM) *
In the past it has been considered poilte to warn people if a TVTropes link is included (due to the amount of time wasted on the site).

smile.gif

But the times they are a changing . .
tasti man LH
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ May 6 2013, 01:39 AM) *
But the times they are a changing . .



*looks at Stahlseele's avatar pic*

...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaFT6RVz5w4
CanRay
QUOTE (DMiller @ May 6 2013, 02:33 AM) *
In the past it has been considered poilte to warn people if a TVTropes link is included (due to the amount of time wasted on the site).

smile.gif
Polite, here???
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Tashiro @ May 5 2013, 10:25 AM) *
Or, like me, use all the rules in 4E, and don't sweat it. wink.gif


Pretty Much...
Tyro
Can't wait!
Archaos
I can wait.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Archaos @ May 6 2013, 10:17 AM) *
I can wait.


Me Too... A Long Time, even...
Medicineman
I will have to wait even longer

with a German Dance
Medicineman
Sengir
QUOTE (Aaron @ May 5 2013, 05:23 PM) *
There's no plebtonium necessary. We already do it in real life. All you need is a strictly controlled, tightly regulated network. You know, something draconian and oppressive in its implementation.

So somebody jumped on the cloud bandwagon. While that would explain how matrix uplinks improve image processing, it does not really account for better chemsuits wink.gif


And as I said to RHat, I'd be far more interested in a good reason why a hacker should be able to make people see things by waving his hands...
binarywraith
QUOTE (Sengir @ May 6 2013, 04:00 PM) *
So somebody jumped on the cloud bandwagon. While that would explain how matrix uplinks improve image processing, it does not really account for better chemsuits wink.gif


And as I said to RHat, I'd be far more interested in a good reason why a hacker should be able to make people see things by waving his hands...


Without a resistance test or drain, I might add. rotate.gif
Aaron
QUOTE (Sengir @ May 6 2013, 04:00 PM) *
So somebody jumped on the cloud bandwagon. While that would explain how matrix uplinks improve image processing, it does not really account for better chemsuits wink.gif

Like I said, I should stop posting before I really break my NDA. But if you're going to Origins, catch me there and I'll be happy to explain how I see it. Or come to the Why Shadowrun is Awesome seminar at Gen Con and catch me afterward. Or, if you want to get me in trouble, ask Jason at the CGL booth. =i)


QUOTE
And as I said to RHat, I'd be far more interested in a good reason why a hacker should be able to make people see things by waving his hands...

It doesn't ... hmrrrr ... must ... not ... post ... NDA ... gaaaaaaahhhhhh.......
RHat
Simple: One of the design problems they're after is, quite clearly, poor integration of the hacker into a run leading to the "decker in the basement" thing - it's the same reason for the noise mechanic. Of course, I rather suspect you're mistaken about the particulars of how it works.

And what gives you the idea that there's no resistance test, binary?
CanRay
QUOTE (Aaron @ May 6 2013, 06:57 PM) *
It doesn't ... hmrrrr ... must ... not ... post ... NDA ... gaaaaaaahhhhhh.......
Stay in the light, Aaron.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (CanRay @ May 6 2013, 08:43 PM) *
Stay in the light, Aaron.


Join the Dark Side. We have cookies!
sk8bcn
QUOTE (RHat @ May 7 2013, 03:25 AM) *
Simple: One of the design problems they're after is, quite clearly, poor integration of the hacker into a run leading to the "decker in the basement" thing - it's the same reason for the noise mechanic. Of course, I rather suspect you're mistaken about the particulars of how it works.

And what gives you the idea that there's no resistance test, binary?


Isn't suspension of disbelief an even more important design vector?

While mechanically, it's a good idea, it's a good one for a tabletop game. But I don' t see how it could be credible. There will be flaming about that. As a GM I don't see how to be credible to explain how unwired is styuff is 200% better. Some gear might have an explenation but not everything.


Oh gamewise, people will simply take 2 guns. Wired one and unwired one.

And if Ares want to retake their power after their failure, they could sell a Predator with a wire/wireless switch.


Well well, not convinced at all. Neither am I about why MUST a hacker have an impact on fights. Their previous idea already was a good one to drag them into action. But in fights?
RHat
I'm not inclined to judge the flavour aspect at this point - we simply don't have the information to do so.
Sengir
QUOTE (RHat @ May 7 2013, 02:25 AM) *
Simple: One of the design problems they're after is, quite clearly, poor integration of the hacker into a run leading to the "decker in the basement" thing

Mechanics for getting the hacker on site already exist and will be expanded in 5th (more tiered matrix and the noise mechanic), combat hacking adds little to that. Making hackable devices omnipresent at best has nothing to do with that, at worst it counteracts the whole concept, because what good is a highly isolated PLTG if I'm in ur eyes, reading all ur datas?

@Aaron: If I ever met Hardy, I'd probably be too busy dreadsocking him to ask any questions biggrin.gif
Aaron
QUOTE (sk8bcn @ May 7 2013, 03:59 AM) *
While mechanically, it's a good idea, it's a good one for a tabletop game. But I don' t see how it could be credible. There will be flaming about that. As a GM I don't see how to be credible to explain how unwired is styuff is 200% better. Some gear might have an explenation but not everything.

In that case, it's all good because not everyth... Hey, Bull, what are you doing here? What's with the scalpel? OH MY GOD IS THAT A CORTEX BOMB?! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAsleepy*thunk*
sk8bcn
Hey well, I'm not the kind to burn everything down before seeing it. It's more about what the blog entry explained. If the explanation is good of the gameplay idea and doesn't lower the suspension of disbielief, it's great.
Sengir
QUOTE (Aaron @ May 7 2013, 12:56 PM) *
OH MY GOD IS THAT A CORTEX BOMB?!

Yeah...Cortex...
binarywraith
QUOTE (RHat @ May 6 2013, 08:25 PM) *
And what gives you the idea that there's no resistance test, binary?


Well, gear's not a player, so it doesn't have pools to resist with, just device rating and firewall rating if any. Despite, you know, having been paid for with Essence. love.gif

The thing I find most hilarious here is that even Unwired mentions, both in the fluff and crunch sections, how bad of an idea cyberware hacking becoming a major thing is. spin.gif
bannockburn
You're still assuming current mechanics. And assuming more, based on your personal perception. But that's how the internet works, after all. wink.gif#

'Probably', indeed.
binarywraith
Quote Is Not Edit

Edit : You know, you're right. I'm sure they're going to come up with a logically consistent and rules compatible reason why everything in the world is now mysteriously hackable.

Just about the same time that submarine sails into Bogota.
bannockburn
The point is not that I'm sure of anything.

The thing is that your postings generally (if at all) contain nothing worthwhile, just baseless assumptions, allegations and negativity.
If you were able to package your criticism in a well thought out argument, like others here do, it'd be constructive. Yours is just spite and not really even near the point where I'd call it criticism at all.

I dislike mindless yes-men and fanboys/girls just as much as constant naysayers.
binarywraith
QUOTE (bannockburn @ May 7 2013, 10:15 AM) *
The point is not that I'm sure of anything.

The thing is that your postings generally (if at all) contain nothing worthwhile, just baseless assumptions, allegations and negativity.
If you were able to package your criticism in a well thought out argument, like others here do, it'd be constructive. Yours is just spite and not really even near the point where I'd call it criticism at all.

I dislike mindless yes-men and fanboys/girls just as much as constant naysayers.


I'm not blindly nay-saying anything. I'm saying, as have others here, that the information posted appears to be a bad design choice in action.

You can agree or disagree, but I'd appreciate you getting down off your high horse unless you've got some mechanics up your sleeve to show us how much this isn't based on the existing rules. Otherwise, we're both wildly speculating, and I don't particularly care to be talked down to by someone with just as much information as the rest of us.
hermit
Personaly, I just never understood why an equipment hacker, and definite hackability of al equipment, is such a desirable thing to have, so you have to bend everything around that.
bannockburn
QUOTE (binarywraith @ May 7 2013, 05:31 PM) *
I don't particularly care to be talked down to by someone with just as much information as the rest of us.

The thing is, I'm not speculating.
I say "I don't particularly like the direction of this, but let's see where this is going and judge in context". You can look it up, if you want.

However, from your post history in this thread:
QUOTE
Well, gear's not a player, so it doesn't have pools to resist with, just device rating and firewall rating if any. Despite, you know, having been paid for with Essence

Blind speculation. No basis whatsoever for criticism. Only "It used to be this way, I can't possibly conceive that it will be different". Small minded.

QUOTE
QUOTE
And as I said to RHat, I'd be far more interested in a good reason why a hacker should be able to make people see things by waving his hands...

Without a resistance test or drain, I might add. rotate.gif

Again, you're just _assuming_ that there will be no resistance or drain. I don't know. You don't know. You just talk out of an orifice that's not located on the front of your head.

QUOTE
Sweet. Because adepts needed yet another way to outpace samurai.

Another one of those baseless personal views, just to smash a dev blog. Point in fact, adepts are, point for point weaker than Samurai for a long long time on the Karma curve. Mathematically, based on the rules as written.

I'll hold off on quoting more of your postings where you embarrass yourself, even though I found many, many more examples.
My rebuttal to your request and the point of this posting:
If you don't like to be talked down to, don't act like a spoiled child.
If you act like that, people will call it out.

Oh and finally: If someone _were_ able to address your 'concerns' point by point, you damn well know they'd be under an NDA, so fish somewhere else.

And with this, I'll refrain from further answering to your flamebait.
Cochise
QUOTE (binarywraith @ May 7 2013, 05:31 PM) *
You can agree or disagree, but I'd appreciate you getting down off your high horse unless you've got some mechanics up your sleeve to show us how much this isn't based on the existing rules.


Now while I certainly have my own reservations regarding the info availible, I can't quite understand why you're asking him to come up with a speculation about possible mechanics ...

QUOTE
Otherwise, we're both wildly speculating,


...in order not to be widly specuclating.

QUOTE
and I don't particularly care to be talked down to by someone with just as much information as the rest of us.


That's one of his points: You don't have enough information, yet you continue to draw conclusions as if you had.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (binarywraith @ May 7 2013, 04:44 PM) *
Quote Is Not Edit

Edit : You know, you're right. I'm sure they're going to come up with a logically consistent and rules compatible reason why everything in the world is now mysteriously hackable.

Just about the same time that submarine sails into Bogota.

didn't Bogota! mention Docks?
hermit
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ May 7 2013, 05:58 PM) *
didn't Bogota! mention Docks?

Yes, but you still need to sail the sub into them. If you try to, the result is kind of like this.
Tashiro
I'm just going to assume that they'll explain everything when the rulebook comes out. Until then, they mentioned that some things will have an advantage being wireless, and I can easily fill in reasons why until then. I might be off base, or I might be right, but either way, I can see how such a thing is possible, so I see no reason to fret over it.

Seriously - is there any good reason to get stressed out over this and rant about it? Is it really helping anyone? All I see is it causing arguments which really aren't necessary, since it isn't out yet, and we don't have enough information - and we probably won't get the information until the books come out. Snarking about it isn't going to help anyone have fun.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (hermit @ May 7 2013, 06:10 PM) *
Yes, but you still need to sail the sub into them. If you try to, the result is kind of like this.

That's a beautifull image hermit O.o
Larsine
QUOTE (sk8bcn @ May 7 2013, 10:59 AM) *
And if Ares want to retake their power after their failure, they could sell a Predator with a wire/wireless switch.


I think I can say this without breaking my DNA: Ares will only sell one Predator V
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Larsine @ May 7 2013, 06:51 PM) *
I think I can say this without breaking my DNA: Ares will only sell one Predator V

/me wonders how Larsine would break his DNA with that . . or at all for that matter . .
Larsine
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ May 7 2013, 06:57 PM) *
/me wonders how Larsine would break his DNA with that . . or at all for that matter . .

rotate.gif I might be a proofreader, but spelling was never my strong side wobble.gif
Sengir
Now we are already getting teasers for future teasers biggrin.gif
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/05/s...bout-to-launch/
Neurosis
It is an exceptionally awkward proposition possessing both information and opinions crucially relevant to an ongoing 82 page forum discussion, and being legally obligated to keep my damn trap shut. Professionalism is a fickle and nasty bitch, like trying to ride a dinosaur.

Actually I think Aaron touched on that about exact phenomenon about a page back. Something about Bull, a scalpel, and a cortex bomb...he's been kind of quiet since then.

Hmm...
Freya
QUOTE (Neurosis @ May 16 2013, 11:49 AM) *
It is an exceptionally awkward proposition possessing both information and opinions crucially relevant to an ongoing 82 page forum discussion, and being legally obligated to keep my damn trap shut. Professionalism is a fickle and nasty bitch, like trying to ride a dinosaur.


If it's any comfort, I feel your pain. I have the same "DNA" as Larsine does. grinbig.gif

QUOTE (Larsine @ May 7 2013, 10:58 AM) *
rotate.gif I might be a proofreader, but spelling was never my strong side wobble.gif


As a fellow proofreader, thank goodness for spellcheck. (Yes, I realise that spellcheck is evil and makes people think they don't have to proofread. I need my job security somehow!)
tasti man LH
QUOTE (Neurosis @ May 16 2013, 10:49 AM) *
It is an exceptionally awkward proposition possessing both information and opinions crucially relevant to an ongoing 82 page forum discussion, and being legally obligated to keep my damn trap shut. Professionalism is a fickle and nasty bitch, like trying to ride a dinosaur.

Actually I think Aaron touched on that about exact phenomenon about a page back. Something about Bull, a scalpel, and a cortex bomb...he's been kind of quiet since then.

Hmm...

...sooo if that's the case I guess that there's much more to Wireless Bonuses than presented in that initial preview, and everyone here is just assuming and speculating in the wrong direction?
Freya
It's not that we're allowed to deny things but not confirm them, it's that we're not allowed to say anything at all about what goes on behind the NDAs. If we were allowed to deny things, it wouldn't be all that hard to go "okay, let's throw a bunch of ideas out and look for the ones they DON'T contradict" and figure stuff out that way. So yeah, unfortunately, we can't really add anything to the discussion beyond what's already been posted publicly.

For what it's worth, though, I do think it's a little silly to hype-announce a preview. nyahnyah.gif Kind of reminds me of a comedy skit I saw once that had a faked-up press conference with an empty chair, and the reporters were basically giving a play-by-play about how they didn't know anything and were waiting.
Neurosis
I can neither confirm nor deny anything.

Man, oddly working on Shadowrun is making me sound like a suit.
Critias
QUOTE (Neurosis @ May 16 2013, 05:34 PM) *
I can neither confirm nor deny anything.

Man, oddly working on Shadowrun is making me sound like a suit.

There's a reason I've been calling myself a "company man" for a while.
tasti man LH
Don't think anyone else has posted this...

But Jason Hardy did a chat Q&A with the folks at RPGnet, and dropped a couple more nuggets of information regarding SR5.

QUOTE
Game mechanics will be more universal. If you learn the combat rules, it’s the same basic rules for magic, decking, rigging, etc. This will hopefully level off the learning curve for the game.

The Matrix will be harder to hack, making deckers more unique again since not everyone can try to hack anything like in 4th Edition.

Character creation in the core book will go back to Priority, with other options showing up in the Companion book. You’ll also get karma to spend as well, which spends exactly like karma you get as experience.

Skills can be raised to 12 rather than 6 like previous editions.

Missions Season 5 will take place in Chicago. Other cities that will be featured are Seattle (of course), Denver, Vladivostok, and Boston.

Magic changes: Traditions will be more unique than in 4A with more of the flavor coming through, there will be a new mechanic called “preparations” that allow a spell to be pre-cast and triggered later, and spirits no longer have individual Edge (which fixes a major overpowered rule).

The metaplot will be developed more in sourcebooks than in 4A along with Missions adventures. A plot sourcebook will be released shortly after the core rulebook.

SR5 and Crossfire (the Shadowrun deckbuilding game) “should” be out sometime this summer.
Core rulebook will be more “generalized” in background rather than tied to the timeline, though the core book will not support play in other eras (2050s, for example) out-of-box.

The sub-core rulebooks that give expanded rules and additional gear will be released a few months apart from each other, according to the current plan.

The various Native American cultures will be re-emphasized again.

The first two books released after SR5 (an adventure and a rulebook) will explore the cybernetic body-snatching metaplot introduced in Storm Front.

HeroLab (the character creation software) will be updated for SR5.


-Not sure how I feel about going back to the Priority system for charagen, as I like BP and karma-gen just fine.

-Hmm, Vladivostok and Boston, eh? With Vladivostok, perhaps there's going to be some stuff happening with Evo? Don't know much about Boston, as of right now, so no comment on that.

-More defined magic traditions that actually affect mechanics?! Woohoo!!!! biggrin.gif

-The core rulebook being more "general"...sounds like a potential SR 2050s and/or 2060s setting book(s) could be in the works.

-Ah yes, the lack of any hard-defined updates on the NANs did perturb me a little bit...

Source for the abridged points.
(note: you'll have to scroll a bit down to get to this one)

Source for the entire chat transcript.
(it's a heck of a transcript, so don't bother unless if you've got a LOT of free time)
Shinobi Killfist
I'm curious what the exploit was for spirits and individual edge. As far as I know you could not force them to use it so I don't see the issue. If a spirit used edge I'd think it was mainly against you in the summoning test or in a dramatically appropriate moment the GM wanted to push. Neither of which seem like an exploit, Though I guess group edge or mook edge or whatever they end up with will be about the same as they probably won’t use it often anyways.
tasti man LH
Plus, since the conjurer can't directly control their spirits anyways outside of using services, so the Conjurer should technically not have direct control over their Edge.

(unless if I've been interpreting the rules wrong, I always assumed that it was the GM that played and rolled for spirits, not the players)
Critias
QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ May 23 2013, 12:22 AM) *
I'm curious what the exploit was for spirits and individual edge. As far as I know you could not force them to use it so I don't see the issue. If a spirit used edge I'd think it was mainly against you in the summoning test or in a dramatically appropriate moment the GM wanted to push. Neither of which seem like an exploit, Though I guess group edge or mook edge or whatever they end up with will be about the same as they probably won't use it often anyways.

The exploit (such as it is) is that it never said any of what you just said. It's a perfectly reasonable way to run it (and how most GMs did, I imagine), but that's not what the rules said, so there were always players insisting otherwise.
Grinder
QUOTE
The metaplot will be developed more in sourcebooks than in 4A along with Missions adventures. A plot sourcebook will be released shortly after the core rulebook.


Not sure about the idea to develop the metaplot in Missions adventures. I understand the idea to give them more importance, but dunno if many players outside the forums and cons will notice them at all.
Grinder
QUOTE (Critias @ May 23 2013, 07:41 AM) *
The exploit (such as it is) is that it never said any of what you just said. It's a perfectly reasonable way to run it (and how most GMs did, I imagine), but that's not what the rules said, so there were always players insisting otherwise.


Why not fix the rules text then?
Nath
Because the new edition was not about fixing things. It was about making things different.
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