Actually what seems to be buggering the mods (at least for what I'm doing) is that the Complete_Vehicle_Mod_Table cell range stops at Nitrous Injection so I get an error for Rigger Adaptation

Good observation Cabral. Fixed in 7.


Yeah, orcs lifespan is so short and their intellect so lowly, I did not figure any of them would live long enough to actually beat a new language into their thick heads.

Erm...no, no meta hating here. Or'zet added in Beta 7.


14 is the range code for light pistols. Where is this number showing up at? I am not seeing it on the CharSheet. Are you on a version prior to beta 6?

See the earlier discussion on attribute raising in this sheet. When you enter a value, that is your desired attribute base, before modifying it by race. If you set it to 2 edge for troll, your modified edge is 2. If you set it to 2 on human, who get +1 racial modfier on edge, it will be 3, and you will pay the cost of raising it from 2 to 3 (instead of 1 to 2). If you have a different suggestion for how the sheet should work, please provide a mock up of agility on a new spreadsheet, and allow the user to select troll/elf/human. If it works better than the one Arturkis created, I will gladly use it in the next version of the spreadsheet.

Now I know you are on an old version, as this problem does not exist in Beta 6.

I agree about contacts. I think there should be a whole page set aside for them, and will work on this for version 8 or 9. Any suggestions on what to include in this sheet are much appreciated.

Yes, skills dont have an attribute column. There is no place to mark off used ammo. These are cosmetics on the CharSheet. Its not that I do not want to improve the CharSheet, I just need inspiration. How would you like to see marked off ammo recorded on the sheet? Does anybody else want an attribute column on skills?

Personally I don't have any trouble remembering which attribute is linked to which skill seeing as they are fairly sensibly assigned, so that always seemed like a waste of space to me. I can change the formatted sheet though, if enough in the community are interested in it.

Also, I never mark ammo off on my char sheet... its a sacred sheet that shouldnt be scribbled on. I have yellow sticky notepads for junk like that. Again, if enough are interested in this I will look into it.

Personally I would like to see CharSheet style areas for all of the details of a character sheet. Rather than dumping all of those into the Character generator, I would like to get the save to text file option working, then start a new project for formatted character sheet design which can import characters from any generator, not just this one. See the discussion on Standardized Character Formatting

The name on the version I used was: SR4Chargen_Upgraded_Beta6.xls
The time stamp for the file was Thursday, October 23, 2008, 11:03:00 PM


The CZ120 error is just showing up on the first row (Columns DEF on Charsheet) of the ranged weapons table, I added another CZ and it showed up as Light pistol. It was also showing up numbers for SMGs, Assault rifles and so on.


The minute I've updated skills and stats on my characters I tend to reprint them, so scribbling all over them is not such a big deal for me. The character sheet I use for myself has a sheet listing skills and attributes, edges, flaws and augmentations, a sheet specifically designed for combat (ammo tracking and damage tracking are on this sheet.), a sheet for the PAN, a sheet for the vehicles, a sheet for contacts and a sheet for character notes and it is in excel.

While I'm thinking it could easily be meshed (via internal links) with the character generator you're working on, other formats would have some difficulty(Mac users in particular). I uploaded a copy of what I have here: http://www.mediafire.com/?myuhdb7yjfb

Actually, I checked it over and realized the attributes were off. I tweaked many of the functions here and it is now working properly in 7 for races with racial modifiers less than -1.

Keen insight. Indeed the Additional clip needs to only lose capacity for pistols. I changed the datapage to have a pistol and non-pistol version of the Additional Clip mod. I do not double clip sizes... they stay the same, with a note at the bottom that it has two clips.

Astute observation. The formulas were correct but the data page was not. Corrected in 7.

Negative Cabral. Epic perception failure! Since the attributes are totaled separately from the race the limit should stay at 375.

Sure. Standard Races Cost is calculated, you are correct. This field is then multiplied against the BP cost of the race to determine the karma cost. Basically there are 3 options for standard races karma cost. It can be normal, which means it follows the standard 2xbp cost. There is reduced, which is 1xbp cost. And then there is Free, or 'Standard Races Cost' = 0.

Other Races are handled seperatly from standard races. In one of the gaming groups I designed this sheet for, they have reduced cost for standard races, and full cost (2xbp) for non-standard with the karma system. I programmed this seperation into the sheet to serve their house rules.

You can simply rename the fields to TRUE or FALSE to manipulate them. I should probably highlight them in blue or something.


Great idea! I think I will copy the data straight out of this post and use it in the sheet. Thanks for the suggestion!

edit: By the way, anyone copying/pasting in their skills from an old sheet is going to need to add two spaces in front of any skill names that are part of a group, as I am using spaces in the name for indenting as above. So much more readable!


I added a cyberlimbs implant category for skull and added fangs, horns and hair after our previous penile discussion.

Interestingly, Mysterious Implant was left out of the negative qualities. Apparently, I can add it myself, but I wasn't sure if this was by design or simply an oversight.

Very awesome work, though!

How mysterious.

In standard Karma Build. There is no Racial cost. See step 1 and Step 3 on page 42, RC

Lol, cheesy ... and I like it!


I believe you are experiencing a chain of botched perception rolls here. Race cost is free if you set it to free. This sheet is built to serve the community and therefore is engineered to handle different house rules, which you can decide on. Please see my discussion on the optional rules and TRUE/FALSE switches just a few posts ago.

He does have a point. By RAW, race costs are free. You probably should just make that toggled to true by default, and then people can uncheck it based on house rules.

No, I think, what he wants to point out is the following:
As RAW state, race costs are free - and your maximum Karma spent on attributes during creation is half the Krma you have PLUS twice the BP-Cost of your race as it WOULD cost, if it weren't free.
Hope, I got it as it is to be. =)

Mishra has it.

I think you are referring to This Post, if not could you direct me to the post in question?
If so, it does not clearly state how to achieve a "RAW" state in the spreadsheet. (I always say understand the RAW and houserule from there, so I'd like to know how RAW works in this sheet before I let the monkeys loose )

Well it seems it took a team effort, but finally I have seen the light. The limit on attributes in there so that Trolls with giant minimum attributes, who are going to be paying up the wazoo to raise their attributes, are allowed to spend more karma on attributes. It totally makes sense, but I just wasnt going to grasp it until:


Alright, fixed with Beta 7. Thanks for your persistence in enlightening me Cabral. It seems I am the one who has rolled badly (or maybe my Logic attribute is junk).

DamienKnight.

I love what you have done with the sheet. I have only run into one major issue at the moment with using it, and I know it has to do with the version of Excel I am using. In Excel 2007 when I open the file I get the following message



If I click on NO, Excel closes the document.

If I click on YES it converts the document and the following things I have noticed.

Optional Rules checkboxes are gone but has the text there. If you Type the correct text value it still works but it doesn't look as pretty.
The Resources drop down list is empty. This may not be related but I just wanted to make it known.
Once the macros are enabled the text in the optional rules box vanishes,



Other bug But not related to this is There are only 4 levels to Martial Artist not 7. Unless this is some house rule that I have not seen.

If you do not have access to Excell 2007 I will be glad to try and help with fixing the sheet but I will admit that I don't know excel that well and may be asking some questions for coding help.

I am using Excel 2003. I cannot hardly believe that names would be removed in a latter version of Excel! They are so much more robust than actual cell refrerences, especially when working through multiple spreadsheet editors. Shame on you Microsoft!

The resources bug has been mentioned and is fixed in 7.

They only mention 4 levels of martial arts in the books, I assume meaning you can get up to level 4 in one style, but couldnt you get level 4 in one style, and 3 in another? To save space (and because it makes sense) I have allowed up to level 7, which would be 35 BP (the max qualities allowed), which represents 35 points worth of Martial arts, divided however you like amongst different styles (which is handled in the martial arts section next to qualities on the main page). If you do not approve of 7 levels, then feel free to delete the extra levels from the data page, or simply dont use them.

Edit:

Beta 7b is released!

Added Nanoware to Cyberware/Bioware page
Added Mentor Spirit Selection on Magic page (must select Mentor spirit quality)
Added aliases for various cell references
Add top 30 world languages to language list, fixed Italian
Added Character Data Mapping sheet and Ini/Xml output pages, sample only (pages are hidden but workable)
Fixed various bugs on vehicles, cyberware, cyberparts, and charsheet, thanks to help finding the bugs from the community
Added Symbiont and missing Cosmetic cyber modifications
Added Bobson's quick and pretty Skill Group savings (just use negative values in BP column for skills that are part of groups)

I agree. I labels are very handed, particularly when combined with defined lists. It's like C++ no longer supporting comments.

... And there was much rejoicing!

Hey there, again something from me =)
Looks like there's a little mistake in the calculation of at least one attribute for at least one race ^^'
Or perhaps two little mistakes - with the charisma for the elf.
Minimum is stated as 2 points with a maximum of 8 - but I believe, it should be a minimum of 3 points, shouldn't it?
And, when I enter a value for charisma, it doesn't show this value +2 in the appropriate column, but just the value itself (so while I should get a charisma of 6 with entering 4, I just get 4).
Hope, I'm pointing it out clear enough and can be of some help again
Best regards - and thanks so far
Mishra

Attribute calculations are a bit difficult to understand...

What would be nice is if I could just enter either

1. how many stat points I wanted to add to the base state and let the sheet calculate the BP or Karma costs

2. What value the stat should be and just use the minimum and maximum for the race to figure out the BP.

ie. setup a table on a hidden sheet with each race and the racial mins and maxs for each stat, use VLOOKUP to get the info.

I figured out how to do group-breaking in a workable (although not entirely intuitive) manner.

Three steps:

1. Change validation of column D to allow for values down to -4
2. Wrap column AN in a MAX(....., 0)
3. Replace column AQ with =IF(E29>ABS(D29),IF(ISERROR(FIND("(Group)",$A29)),
   VLOOKUP($E29,Complete_Karma_Math_Table,3,FALSE)-VLOOKUP(IF($D29="",0,ABS($D29)),Complete_Karma_Math_Table,3,FALSE),
   VLOOKUP($E29,Complete_Karma_Math_Table,6,FALSE)-IF($D29="",0,VLOOKUP(ABS($D29),Complete_Karma_Math_Table,6,FALSE))),0)

Then, when you want to say that a skill was raised to X as part of a group, you buy the group as normal, and give the skill a value of -X. Then the karma costs for raising beyond X are calculated appropriately.



Also, More than Metahuman (uw) is missing from the positive quality list, and the bioware/cyberware costs seem to have reverted to an older version, or something - they aren't halving the lesser of the two any more.

Yes, the charisma formula is wrong. Fixed it, will release 7a soon. Charisma should be very similar to Agility calculation, if anyone is impatient and wants to fix this themselves.


The sheet currently employs method 1. There is a hidden sheet called 'RACE' which it does lookups on.

.

No it doesn't... and that's what's confusing.

Take the sheet, make a Dryad... put a 1 in the Base for Charisma. If it employed 1... the Charisma of the Dryad should be 3. But it's still 2.

What's worse, is it costs 10 BP to set it to 2 if I put 2 in the base column... The base for a Dryad is 3... But even so... if I put a 2 in the Build column it should be 2 - Racial minimum (which is incorrectly 2) = 0 * 10 = 0 BP, in Beta 7 it shows 10.

Each attribute's cost formula should be IF(Value = Max,25 + 10*(Value - (minimum + 1)),10*(Value-minimum))

Try looking at an attribute besides charisma. Refer to my previous post:

Well ok so I played with Agility.

If I put a 1 in for the Base Agility... it stays at 2. Which contradicts what I said above... If I want to add 1 to the base stat for a Dryad it should be 3.

If I put in a 2 for the Base Agility.... it goes to 3... When it should be a 4 if your operating on the type 1 I have above.

The stats are just counter intuitive... Adding tons of explanation to the sheet still leaves them so...

That is simple and elegant, and passive so that it is inherently optional. Fantastic!

Fixed Charisma, several missing qualities from unwired, and the bioware/cyberware essence costs.

Version Beta 7b

Great. Now I need to go move the character from sheet to sheet a second time in the same day. You're too productive. Shame on you.

Great sheet so far Damien. I'm trying to make a magician with 7a though and I keep getting an error in the Magic sheet on cell I24, where it is trying to calculate max spells known based on the Spellcasting skill. I'm running it in OpenOffice, is anyone else having this problem, or is it just me?

Hey there,
and me again - sorry for always having a new point ^^'
This time it's the calculation of karmacost with the attributes again.
Whenever you raise an attribute with a natural Minimum of more than 1, it calculates the karmacost as if the minimum was one lower. So if I raise Charisma for an Elf to 2, resulting in a value of 4, it should cost me 12, but it does cost 9+12=21. For raising Agility to 2 what is 3, it equally costs an additional 6 karma. Tried this out with Orks and their Konstitution/Strenght, getting the same results.
Hope, this helps
Best regards
Mishra

Yeah, your right. Fixed in 7b.

This is because it is searching for Sorcery/Ritual spellcasting, but I have added spaces to their name so it is not finding them. Fixed in 7b the max spells formula to search for sorcery/ritual sorcery with spaces.

Sorry to have another incremental update, but these are major bugs that need fixin. Grab 7b here.

Just downloaded 7b and I must say that I am quite pleased with the Generator...very good work!

I have run into a problem dealing with cyberlimbs. If it has already been reported, my apologies.

It appears that there is something not working right in the calculations dealing with the Bod, Str and Agi associated with cyberlimbs. In beta7 selecting a cyberlimb would give you #VALUE in the spots at the top of the page (Cyberparts!I4 for example) and would end up giving similar results in the CharSheet. In beta7b the error #VALUE no longer appears, but the numbers never change.

I've looked around a little to see if I could figure it out, but I think I have exceeded my meager programming skills with Excel at this point. I'm using the sheet on an XP Pro machine with MS Excel 2003 SP2 in case that is useful.

Okay, me again. Same problem I did some more digging this time around though and it may just be an Open Office problem. In the formula on the Magic tab Cell I24, the VLOOKUP function is being used to pull in the value for your Spellcasting skill for Build Points, then for Karma Points. The problem I am seeing is that when building a character with just build points the first function works fine and I get the value I have for Spellcasting. When it does the second check however, it finds the skill but the points column is empty. It returns an empty value to the formula... which then promptly falls apart. I'm not sure if Excell handles the function differently or not. If it's empty, does it return a 0? Is there some way to tell it to do that? It seems to me that would solve the problem... but unfortunately my Spreadsheet programming skill isn't quite high enough to figure it out yet.

DamienKnight

Thanks for the refrence fix.
But I am still having issues with the main page. When I open the document macros are disabled and I can see where the optional rules are. I also found the diagram where the check boxes are in cells BO14 through BT23

When I enable the macros the box moves over but the check boxes do not. When I go over to them I can check them. Although if I check the Karma system the options for the races show up in the box correctly.

I am sure that this is a bug with Excel 2007 but I don't know how to fix this one.

Dice Roller work just fine.

I think you have done a excelent job with this sheet.

not sure if you noticed, but on sapient critters it won't let you raise magic unless your a mage/mystic adept/physad

In Z3 you should probably have: =IF(AND(Standard_Races_Free;Karma_Build_System);"Infection";"Race")

Also, one tweak I tend to make is setting resources equal to the minimum of 250000 and 5000 * the number of build points remaining. This removes what I regard as a superfluous decision.

First of all great work on the character sheet!

I have found some minor problems with it:

1. In Office 97 for some reason the Magic and Technomancer sheets are hidden. Even if the appropriate quality is selected they remain hidden. Otherwise the sheet works.
2. The sheet does not work correctly with OpenOffice 3. Are there plans to reintroduce OO compatibilty?
3. There doesn't seem to be a way to break up groups during character creation with the BP-method, though this is not completely illegal.[Edit]It does work if you remove the protection from the sheet and manually enter the suggested amount from cell AB13 into cell AA13. Also the Comment on the latter cell is misleading, as it speaks of breaking up the group after character creation.[/edit]
4. Reducing essence and subsequently magic with cyber- or bioware screws up the BP cost. MAG 5 in a character with essence loss between 0.1 and 1 point should be 65 not 40. Or is there a mistake on my part?
5. The Code of Conduct quality seems to be missing.
6. The modded weapons page does not seem to support weapons that have stock options for accessories, like the Ruger Thunderbolt with or without Smartgun System.
7. There is no way i see to modify melee weapons. At least plasteel components and personalized grip would make sense. Weapon commlink and Weapon personality are debatable but another Lilarcor or Enserric could be fun.
8. I have discovered some problems with the calculation of recoil compensation. Optional RC like from a folding stock is not calculated correctly. Adding a gas vent to a weapon with a folding stock is shown as 3(1) instead of 3(4).
   Replacing a stock gas vent 2 system with level 3 still takes up two slots.
   The underbarrel weight is not cumulative with a gas vent, which it should be.
9. There does not seem to be a way to remove built in modifications from a weapon
10. What does the Alt: field (L6) mean?
11. Mystic Armor and maneuvres do not show up on the character sheet

I'm using OpenOffice 3. I haven't seen any problems yet, but I've only just upgraded and haven't monkeyed as much as when I first grabbed the sheet. Where are the problems?

First of all OO claims that there are links to other files and asks if i want to update them. What other files?

On the Main sheet the Check Buttons for Karma or BP Creation do not exist.

The Martial Arts Advantages are red on yellow background even though the appropriate quality was selected.

Also the different skills and qualities on the CharSheet are not sorted right. It looks something like this Skill ASkill B   12 instead of
Skill A   1
Skill B   2

That's just what I found with a quick look.

Oh i found some more things (in excel):

1. Specializations for knowledge skills cost 4 BP if you are over the limit of (LOG+INT)*3 or 2 of those points
2. Attributes improved by Cyber- or Bioware are listed as total on the CharSheet not as Natural Attribute(Augmented Attribute)
3. Specialized skill ratings should be listed like this 1(+2) not as 1(3) as the specialization does not improve the skill rating but adds two bonus dice.

I have noticed some of those problems as well Dakka.

I think the skill list one is just a formatting issue, if you put a specialization in a skill so that it lists SkillA 4(6) all of the rest of the numbers will line up properly with their associated skills. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the parentheses turning it from a numeric quantity to a string.

Since it's not RAW-legal, and it'd be a pain to support (it took long enough to come up with a way to support breaking up groups afterchargen), it probably won't be implemented, although that's always DK's call. I think for minor rule breaking, unprotecting the sheet and changing it by hand is sufficient.


Did you put in that you were buying 5 magic, or was your magic rating 5 after taking essence into account (i.e. you put in 6)? (The final values show up a few columns over). If the former, it's certainly wrong, if the latter, that's intended behavior - you put in your base stats, and then they get adjusted for racial modifiers, essence loss, and so on.

I asked about mystic armor - the response was that since it listed under powers, it didn't need to add in to armor as well.

I've noticed this too. I've never noticed any difference no matter what I pick. It's a bit odd, though.

As i corrected myself it does work. But for some reason the cell is protected. Btw what counts as RAW? The FAQ state that they advise against it but they don't forbid it either.

I put in 6 (Cell bpMagic) for 65 BP shown in Cell AA5, the modified magic Attribute (modMagic) is 6 as well. After I added a synaptic booster, modMagic is 5 as it should be, but AA5 is at 40 BP and P11 is at 6 and red. If you enter 5 in bpMagic after the 'ware AA5 increases to 55 but modMagic at 4?!

I just realise that there is no list for the 'ware on CharSheet. OK, but both the list and the calculated mystic armor would be nice.

I believe this may be due to the way Excel wraps sheet references in single quotes when the sheet name has spaces in it. The new character data mapping sheets were like this. I changed the spaces in their names to underscores and corrected related 'Names'. Hopefully this will fix it, but I only have Excel 2003 which does not get that error.

They do in excel 2003.

I am not seeing this problem on my sheet. Which Styles/bonuses etc. did you choose? You must select a style for each advantage, so you cannot just put Aikido Once, then select two advantages. Each advantage must list AIKIDO next to it. I did notice that cell AE33 was empty when it should have a formula similar to the cells below, but that would only affect the first martial arts advantage slot. BTW, AE33 fixed for next version.

Nope. Looks great on Excel 2003. If you would like to create a charsheet that works nicely in OO, I will include it in the list of selectable charsheets to print. Hopefully when the data outputting is completed this will be a moot point.

I dont know about that, but I changed the way those are calculated so they don't count towards the free knowledge skill limit.
Interesting. Perhaps this will be addressed in the future.
yes, lets use the format suggested by the book, it does make sense. Fixed in next version.

I think you misunderstood me DamienKnight. The four issues you quoted first work fine in microsoft office 97 als well, but they are a problem with OpenOffice.

As for the martial arts, when you open the sheet in OpenOffice cells AJ33:AJ39 are already yellow. Once you select one of the martial arts positive qualities, AG:33AG39 abnd the maneuvre cells become green, but even if you select a style and a corresponding advantage, AJ33:AJ39 remain yellow with red letters.

There is a reference to a location within the workbook (Workbook#location) which it handles as an html bookmark. That's the only "external" file I know of. It's a reference to the same workbook but it's handled as an external link.

In Open Office, you modify Cells AG14:AG16 and AG18:AG22 directly.

There doesn't seem to be any error checking for the Martial Arts.

Ah. It doesn't seem to be registering the char(10) in the formula for the skill value. Odd. Near as I can tell, it should work

I was messing with a character using the spreadsheet in OpenOffice last night and noticed the skills being listed wrong (on the charSheet) as well. It seemed to be doing this:

Skill 234
Skill
Skill

instead of:

Skill 2
Skill 3
Skill 4

If I added a skill with no skill rating the display generally started to work right. Sometimes once the display was correct I could add a number as the rating for that last skill and the display on the character sheet would stay correct, but not always.

Weird. Now it seems to be messing up on the skills list too. SkillSkillSkill 234.

I suspect the problem is related to OpenOffice's difficulty with large updates. though, that's not the entirety of the problem. If it were, it would update properly after a moment. Interestingly, including a specialization causes the skill names to line up (ratings are still wonky)

I'll see if I can massage the formulas to work properly.

i was wondering can you add something that will allow me to add program options to complex forms?

also when looking at immersion for Technomancers there is a place for Mesh (groups) but no place for an Ordeal thus the cost is to high

i noticed in P11 it states "=IF(L11<>"",MAX(N11,O10,1)+AM11,0)" and it needs to be "=IF(L11<>"",MAX(N11,karmaMagic,1)+AM11,0)"

and one last thing, when you select a technomancer shouldn't the living Persona info show up on the CharSheet under Commlink?

First of all, thanks for all your hard work on the character generator. This is an incredibly useful program.

I've only run into one rather curious bug so far. I'm using Excel 2000, and everything seems to work fine in BP Gen mode. If I switch to Karma Gen, I'm having an issue with the magic stat. If I choose a Magician, Adept, or Mystic Adept, the Magic attribute is not being calculated properly. If I fill in a value for magic before all other stats, the stat stays at 1 no matter what value I put in for magic, though the karma cost is calculated and deducted from my karma point total. Once I fill in a value for the Edge attribute, Edge overrides Magic and is used instead. If I give a character an Edge of 4, suddenly magic changes to 4 in all relevant fields.

that is due to a cell refrance being wrong. came across this with my technomacer it links to the edge cell not the magic/resonance.

First I want to say, Thanks to Dakka Dakka and all those OO users who help me make this sheet more compatible with the wise OO users.

Now some rambling:
If I did not already have Excel provided by my work I would bite off my left hand before I paid microsoft for something I can get for free from a community established by Sun. My father worked for Sun for a decade and has convinced me the wondrous wisdom in Open Source. As a professional programmer I feel I must make a note that there is a difference between sharing knowledge and stealing it, and if you pirate software you are stealing food from the tables of hardworking people. That said, knowledge increases at a much quicker rate if techniques are shared freely, rather than lamely protected with copyrights.





No, I do not misunderstand you. I know you are on open office. When I look at a problem and say 'It works on Excel 2003' I am saying, that is my only test environment and that is all I can guarantee. I do work to make things compatible with OO, but its difficult without having it to test with.

The first quote about external references... I was aiming my reply at OO users. The problem never manifests in Excel so long as there are not any actual outside references. I theorize that the problem has to do with single quotes in the 'Names'. I think this is fixed, we will see when 8 gets tested on OO.

As for the comment about skills not displaying correctly... I checked again and found some issues, and have them mostly worked out.
Nope, this appears in the Technomancer page, which is the perfect place for it.
Yeah, the relationship between essence and magic is messed up and I am going to have to fix it. Thanks to those who pointed this one out to me.