Hiya Guys, am i missing something, or is there no way to add specialisations?

I kinda can´t figure why a sheat of such complexity wouldn´t have that feature... I am missing it, right?

To the right of a skill, there are columns for bp rating (for use with bpgen), rating (for karmagen or improvement after character creation), max, bpspec (bpgen again), and spec (karmagen or spec gained after creation). Put an X (or anything else, actually) in bpspec if you're using bpgen, or spec if you're using karmagen or modifying a character in play. Then enter the spec in the row immediately below the specialized skill.

Thanks.
I knew I had overlooked it somewhere.

Anytime ^_^

Huh, a couple other things I just noticed in 1M.

• Explosive arrows are listed as 75¥ each, with an availability of 8. Arsenal p.19 lists them as being 10¥ each, availability 9.
• Barbed, hammerhead, incendiary, and screamer arrows are not present. Arsenal p.19 lists costs and availability for all four of these, though the Arsenal errata changes Hammerhead arrows to Availability 5 and are 5¥ each.
• Stick-n-Shock arrows cost 13¥ each, according to the Arsenal errata. Considering that SnS bullets are 8¥ each, this will require a new entry for SnS arrows.

How do you set the magic for Mystic Adept?

If you mean the Spellcasting magic, it's in the adept powers list on the Magic tab. I think it's called adept spellcasting - look at the very top.

First off, love this sheet. What a great resource for GMs and players. Thanks for putting this one together. My team and I have been using it since I was directed to it by Draco18 on this site, and its a huge help.

Two quick things.

1) Adept powers that ordinarily don't have ranks (Killing Hands for example) allow you to put ranks in the "Level" column and then increase the costs proportionately (so you can take Killing Hands at rank 5 for 2.5 Power Points). Is this intended?

2) When you purchase a skill group, and then want to increase only one skill within the group, you are charged full price for the skill. For example, if you take Conjuring (Group) at 4 ranks, and then buy Summoning at 5, it should cost 4 points but it costs 20. Is there a way around this?

I think so. There's not really anything that "checks" to see if a power has "ranks" or not.



There's a box up near the total point calculation for "breaking skill group BP refund" that allows you to fix that.

Alrighty, and thanks for the catch on that skill thing. Love this builder. Makes building a character easy and fast.

1. The adept powers were not checking against the MAX value in the Adept_Data tab. Thanks for pointing this out. I went ahead and fixed it in version N.

2. There are two cells on the Main_Sheet below your 'Build Points' Total (cell AD14 and AD14). When you expand out a skill group into individual skills, you dont want to pay for all of it. You can figure out how much you are overpaying and enter the value in the 'Skill Group Expand BP' or 'Skill Group Expand Karma' cells, and it will subtract that cost from your total.

An alternative method which involves entering negative values into the skills rating.. or skill group rating or something. I do not recall exactly what it was, but you can find it buried in this thread somewhere (I think Bobson pointed it out?).

Those two methods work with version m. After you pointed this OLD OLD problem out, I decided to go back and give the attribute cost calculations another look, and using my aged spreadsheet skills I figured out a way to have skill group costs removed automatically. So in version N of the sheet, you can simply add BOTH the group and the individual skills into your sheet and it calculates what the cost would be, assuming that your skills were raised above your group rating. The sheet will also highlight as an error any skill rating where the skill value is lower than the group's value.

The only situation this does NOT work for according to RAW is when you have a skill group, raise an individual skill above the group, then raise the skill group. In that situation, according to the book, you will have ended up paying for raising the individual skill above the group's level AND paid for the raising the group.

IE. You have Athletics group of 2, costing 20 karma. You then decide to raise your Gymnastics to 3, which costs you 6 more karma, for a total cost of 26. Later down the road you decide to raise your Athletics group up to 3. This costs 10 more karma, for a total cost of 36. You end up with an Athletics of 3 and Gymnastics of 3 for more than just the plain cost of getting Athletics of 3.

According to the book, you are supposed to just be screwed out of that 6 karma. (Seems fair to me).

Since the sheet does not know what order you raise your skills (And barring a dedicated Skills tab with historical Skill changes it never will) then it assumes that you Raised your Athletics to 3 and THEN broke out your Gymanstics of 3, so it only charges you 30 for the group.

Some groups will be ok with this. If your group is not, then simply put a -6 value in the 'Skill Group Expand Karma' slot to give yourself a -6 karma penalty.... or Put a -6 karma entry on the Karma_Log page, with a note for the reason.

I think alot of people yearn for this auto-skill group calculation, so I am looking to publish version N soon. (As soon as I catch up with all the Price updates yall pointed out!)

On a side note:

I spoke about a Calendar a few months ago. I have spent some time working on it and it is coming along... but I quickly decided that a good Shadowrun calendar is going to require its own spreadsheet. I will continue to develope the calendar alongside the Character Generator, and when it is done I may import a miniature version of it into the Character Sheet.

Currently the Calendar has an Overview tab where you see a list of all months in the year you are examining, then each month on the calendar is a clickable link which takes you to a sheet dedicated to that specific month. There is a settings page where you specify the starting year and month, then the sheet dynamically calculates the Months/Years for the 12 month period starting at the month you defined. Running this through testing I have seen it work perfectly with far future dates, such as 2072.

I am developing the Calendar in a general format currently. It has nothing Shadowrun specific on it yet. I am working on adding a task sheet that then triggers a display on the months for each task, marking them from start to finish. Once it is in a usable state, I will publish it here to get the Dumpshock community opinion then I will begin specializing the sheet for Shadowrun usage.

In the mean time, expect version N within a week!

DamienKnight, I assume you hear it a lot, but you are awesome. This is a great project, and for you to go to all this work, and make it accessible to thousands of people you don't know and will never meet, is beyond great.

Hats off to you.

Well put. Seconded.

Yes, on the Main sheet the 'Base','Raise' and 'Modified' columns show your stats in human form. The 'Dracoform' column shows your stats in your Dracoform, with your MODIFIED stats in braces.

The printable character sheet on the 'CharSheet' page shows Cyber/Magic modified stats in Brackets, then Modified Drake states to the right in Parenthesis.

This is actually bogus in some cases, where cyberware should not be allowed. Technically Cyberware only works in Human form, and becomes useless in Dracoform.

In all cases I have seen, Drake players are not cyber-characters. If you decide to do a Drake Sammy, then please note the bogus stats. If it becomes a real issue, I can always change the spreadsheet calculation, but I really like the way it works now (where it is based off your averaged attributes from the Cyberparts page) and would rather not rework the formulas just for one odd character.



Fixed in N. This inspired me to run a spell check on the page, it should be all straightened out.

People do say it alot, but I cant hear it enough. The truth is if I did not have the dumpshock community's help through bug finding, feature suggesting and encouragement, I would never have gotten past the first beta version.

It has been fun work, and beneficial to me professionally. I am an Analyst and spend most of my time designing, programming and fixing data transportation scripts. When I started I only knew a minimal bit of excel, but found myself learning fast since the Company I work for had most of their reporting done out of Access and Excel. I learned a bit of excel on the job, but knew I needed to be better. When I found the spreadsheet by Arturkis/Blakkie I saw great potential, and began changing the sheet to fit the needs of my group. After my group quit, I wouldve stopped working on the sheet except for all of the response I got on the forums.

The sheet has been a boon to me, training my excel-fu so that I am better at my job, and keeping me interested in SR through the RP dry patches. Mostly though, it has just been fun to see the sheet get better and better through the months (actually years I guess, since I started this in 2008).

So again, I think I have gained much more from the community than have gotten from it, and I appreciate every ones input on this thread.

You sly cutters are the real deal, and can run with me anytime.

For Simdeck, where the book says 1000+ without specifying a definite range of values, I decided to set the price to a base of 500 + 500 per rating. This comes out to 1000 for rating 1, 1500 for rating 2, 2000 for rating 3, etc.

This is a rough estimate that will allow you to pay as much as you want for a simdeck. If anyone finds more specific prices/examples in a future book, please post it.

Thanks so much for all these prices. I have FINALLY put them all into the sheet. I must say it was a big help, and seeing all the work you put into that post I was inspired to spend some more time on the sheet!

That is a far more elegant solution than I came up with, which was just to use the build-your-own-item spaces and fill in GM-supplied information.


Glad to help!

It does not work that way by RAW. If you raise an individual skill in a skill group you already have, the skill group ceases to exist. In your example you would not have Athletics 2 Gymnastics 3 but Gymnastics 3, Climbing 2, Running 2, Swimming 2. To be able to raise the whole group you would have to raise all other skills to 3.
I'm pretty sure there is also a quote about raising individual skill to the same level and making it a group, but I can't find it right now.

Great, so if you follow the rules and never raise your Skill Groups once you have broken out the skills, then the new calculation follows the rules perfectly! Thanks for pointing that out Dakka!

In my group we had houseruled that groups and skills can be raised in any order without breaking synergy. In my personal opinion, I think they created the 'If you break the skills out the group is gone' rule because of the incremental way stat raising goes on paper. When you raise a stat on your character sheet, you are only concerned with that individual stat raise, so you dont want rules that require calculating in discounts.

When the sheet has a skill changed it recalculates the skill and its group in their entirety with 0 effort, allowing for skill group synergy to exist no matter the order of stat raising.

Also, if I say have Athletics 2 and raise Gymnastics to 3, I may not want all of my individual Athletics skills to spread out onto the skill list... I just want to know that all Athletics are 2 except Gymnastics which is 3. Version N of the sheet allows for this... or you can add all of the individual skills to to the sheet.

Just remember this... if you break out all of a skill groups skills, and then REMOVE the skill group, the sheet no longer has any idea that you shouldve had any kind of discount, so you will end up paying full price for the skills.

This is where the 'skill group expand' cells will still come into play. If you want to remove the skill group after breaking out ALL of the skills in that group, then you will have to add the karma/BP saved into the 'Skill Group Expand' cells.

The great thing about the automatic calculation of group/skill bp/karma discounts WITH the Skill Group Expand option is that you can use the sheet to calculate the savings for you.

For example (using the Karma build system for simplicity).

At character creation you buy Athletics (Group) 2 for 20 karma.

Later you decide to raise your Gymnastics to 3 for 6 more karma.

Now according to RAW (as Dakka Pointed out), you need to LOSE the Group and break out all individual skills:

Add Climbing, Running and Swimming all to your sheet at rating 2. The Karma cost should be 0, and version N of the sheet will reflect that.

BUT, now according to RAW you need to REMOVE the Athletics (Group).

One option is to move the Athletics (Group) to the bottom of your skill list as a Note showing why you should have any discount, and allowing the sheet to know that you had the group so it will calculate costs appropriately.

The other option is this: Look at your total karma, then delete the Group. What is the difference?

It should be 12 karma lost:
-20 karma cost for removing the group
+8 karma cost for raise 4 individual skills to 2 = +32 karma
-20 + 32 = 12

But we dont need to know the exact math... just watch your karma before and after you remove the group and note it (12). Now go and add 12 to the 'Skill Group Expand Karma' cell (Main_Sheet!AD15).

OR

Add an entry in the Karma log:

Karma Award 12, Reason: Broke Athletics 2 into individual skills

My personal preference is to leave the group and only add the skills that are raised beyond the group for a nice succinct skill list, but if you would rather see the individual skills you will now have an easy way to do it.

Wonderful as always, DK!

Verion N is now available.



Updated Damage and Reach calculation for Drake Forms. Changed default drake Breath Weapon to fire.
Added the possibility to Glitch when using the 'Efficient Dice Roller'.
Added prices to many items in Gear list, fixed several typos in Gear
Skill Groups now reduce the BP/Karma paid for individual skills from that group
Added 'Additional Echoes' section to Technomancer for Optional rule allowing Immersed Technomancers to purchase echoes for 15 karma each
Added Immersion Tasks for Technomancers
Fixed various spelling errors on the Background tab

Just did some quick peeks and I must say I'm liking it, though I still had to make a few edits for the cyberware grades to work in Excel 2007 (same as before). Since I've got an older copy of Excel installed on another computer now I can actually try to see what can be done to resolve this for good.

Added: Actually found how to fix this DK, and left you a message with the details.

DK's been getting a lot of love lately, and I just wanted to say I (and I'm sure the other users of the sheet) haven't forgotten the other people working on this. I (we) really appreciate the few people who have the skills to go into excel and figure out fixes who actually do so and help us all thereby. Noticing bugs when I'm building a character is easy; actually going in and fixing the code is something else entirely. Thanks!

I did not realize that an excel workbook could have duplicate names via a Tab Instance vs the Workbook names. Crazy!

Deleted like 20 duplicated names. I re-uploaded the file under the same name and have updated all the links.

If anyone is using Excel 2007 and having errors on the Cyberware page, you may want to re-download version n.

Thanks for the help SpellBinder. I dont have excel 2007 to verify the fix works, so please post here if you find the new version is working properly.

http://www.filedropper.com/sr4cgdk1n_1

Just did and I am having no issues with the cyberware grades now. I'd call this pesky issue resolved.

Now I just wish I had gotten off my backside with the older version of Excel to figure out how it worked differently from 2007. Only put it on my other computer last week to verify the backwards compatibility of a Warmachine roster sheet I've been working on.

As always, Fantastic Work, DK.

Due to one of my games being a Paladium Heroes Unlimited game, I'm considering doing a similar project for that character creation system. I've only just started and have already come to realize the scope of just what you had to do to make this sheet. I am in awe, sir. Thank you.

Keep in mind that he started with Autarkis and Blakkie's sheet, and we're on pages 76 of bugtesting, feature requests, and moral support ^_^

Not to say it wasn't/isn't an incredible accomplishment for which he deserves much laud. I just don't want you scaring yourself into not trying.

LOL I'm still considering trying it. I've gotten to the point where formulas no longer suffice and I'm delving headlong into VBA. Worse, it's Paladium. Just looking at the books induces madness. It's just not as clean as the SR4 system (all things considered).

The SR4 sheet does not require macros to work, and that is very intentional. Originally this sheet used macros to show and hide pages based on your Magic selection. If you were mundane it hid the magic and technomancer sheets... but then revealed them if they were needed. The sheet also originally used buttons to trigger your Optional Rule settings.

What I quickly found out was that macros do not port well between different versions of Excel, and don't work at all in Open Office, which uses its own scripting language.

There are alot of things in the sheet that would have a smaller footprint (like every list which contains a ton of formulas that would be more efficient with simple looping scripts) or things that just would've been a million times simple if not in formulas (Ahem... Armor, Armor upgrades and Armor outfits.) But you have to look at your target audience. If half of your users are using Open Office, thirty percent are using Excel 2007, and twenty percent Excel 2003... then with an audience of 2000 users, you are alienating hundreds of users by making your sheet primarily compatible with a single program.

Finding solutions within formulas that serve your needs can be a brain bender, but most everything can and should be kept out of Macros. I would be happy to discuss any problems you are facing. Send me a PM or start an Excel Character Sheets help thread. We can discuss tricks with Conditional Formatting, Obfuscating code via Names in Data sheets, creating character sensitive selectable lists and even Matrix math!

Oh, and macros can be your friend so long as users don't need to execute them. I use a VB macro to switch the sheet between developement and Production modes easily, and it saves SO much time hiding data sheets, column headers, and resetting a sheets cell focus. Its really a must have for large sheets that get frequent updates.

Using version N, which I just downloaded less than an hour ago.

First off...nice work!

Now, I'm fiddling around with things, and in one of my experiments, I created a human magician with a magic of 6. So far, so good. Seems to be calculating everything properly.

Then I add "Vampire" just to see what'll happen. (I work with the Infected a lot in my writing; it's an occupational hazard.) At this point, I get yellow warning boxes on Charisma (which was a 2) and Magic (which was a 6). The 200 BP that had been devoted to stats suddenly became 120, and the 65 which were spent on Magic became 40.

Have I missed something, or is something seriously wrong that I'm not explaining too well? This is in Excel 2003, by the way.

Vampires, as per RC, have maximum Magic of 5 (pages 77, top right hand column; true of all infected). Also, Vampires have their minimum/maximum Agility & Reaction & Charisma attributes increased by 2 (which is why your Charisma of 2 got flagged, it's too low), and their minimum/maximum Intuition & Willpower attributes increased by 1. The cost of your attributes changed because of the change in minimums, and the magic also changed because you exceeded the maximum and the sheet doesn't calculate the extra 15BP like I thought it would.

And on a side note, something I had not noticed because I really have never messed with the infected, they all have a starting Magic of 1, not 2 as what actually shows on the sheet (the max Magic also doesn't show correctly, though the error is proper). Also, starting infected have an Essence of 5 (again, going from RC, page 77).

Fresh bug from 1N in Excel 2007:

BP Creation - Skills: Having Mechanic (Group) and any vehicle skills (Gunnery, Pilot Ground Craft, etc) will negatively affect skill point calculation and skill list display.

• If the rank of the vehicle-class skill(s) is less than the rank of Mechanic (Group), the rank cell for the vehicle-class skill(s) will highlight.
• If the rank of the vehicle-class skill(s) is less than or equal to the rank of Mechanic (Group), the BP cost for the vehicle-class skill(s) will not be added to the Active Skills BP total regardless of their ranks.
• If the rank of the vehicle-class skill(s) is greater than the rank of Mechanic (Group), the BP cost will be calculated incorrectly. The math is behaving as if the rank of Mechanic (Group) is the zero-point for the affected skills, and determining BP cost based on the difference between the two numbers - for example, Mechanic (Group) X and any vehicle-class skill at X+1 is returning a total BP cost of (X*10)+4, rather than (X*10)+[(X+1)*4].

Adding the Vampire quality after initial chargen, though, shouldn't affect the stats or anything like that. HMHVV doesn't lower the character's Magic rating (per Running Wild). And adding 2 to an existing rating of 2 shouldn't flag any warnings, either.

Will continue to play with things....

If you're doing it after chargen, you need to go to the settings tab and set Character Creation to false, so it stops flagging things for you.

Thank you! All the things I've been fiddling with, and I never bothered to go look there...damn, I can be a dumbass sometimes....

Just remembered to check the sheet when I saw this. There's a box you can put a character into next to where you choose your flavor of HMHVV infection for getting it after character generation. It would probably be best to put an X in that box if that is the case for the character. Doing it this way clears up the otherwise error notices for the Charisma and Magic that were mentioned earlier.

And I noticed that the BP count for a post creation infection is erroneous here too, as at a starting Magic of 6 pre-infection is 65 BP, but then drops to 55 BP for a post creation infected (didn't check all of them via the Main_Sheet).

Page?

AWay from my books, but I'll get you the page reference tonight.

No argument that a character's Magic attribute doesn't change if infected after creation. The entries for HMHVV II & HMHVV III in RC, page 83, state this quite clearly; personally I think it's a typo that HMHVV I doesn't say the same thing, and would argue it's the same for this strain as well.

However, page 77 of RC does state that infected characters at the time of creation have an Essence of 5, Magic of 1, and can increase their Magic to a maximum of 5 + Initiation Grade.

DamienKnight: Running Wild, page 68, first column, in the description of the disease stats for HMHVV I.

For characters who become a Infected AFTER character creation, their magic should be reduced to Their Essence + Initiation Grade (as per the Magic Loss for Infected with Essence Loss in Runners Companion). For Ghouls, this means Essence 5 - wares + Initiation Grade.

For a vampire, this means 1 + initiation.

Ie.

Fizzle is a human magician with a 5 magic rating. He is NOT initiatied.

He becomes a vampire. He gets 1 essence and 1 magic OR his existing magic attribute, which is 5. So magic 5... but then the rules for magic loss for characters with Essence Loss comes into play. Since his essence is 1, his magic rating is reduced from 5 to 1.

Now if Fizzle had been a grade 2 initiate with a 5 magic rating, he would have a 3 magic rating after becoming a Vampire.

The sheet does not reflect this currently. I will update this to apply appropriate magic loss based on reduced essence.

The sheet will still assume 6 essence for those with essence drain, and 5 for other infected, but Magic Rating after infection will be reduced based on initiation grade.

Love the generator, but I've encountered a slight problem.

I created a Human Adept with a Magic of 6, but I tried to set Improved Combat Ability to 6 and I got an error that said I was trying to put the power above my Magic rating.

You cannot improve any skill beyound 1.5 times its natural rating. So at a natural 6 you could have a maximum of 6(9), which means Improved Combat Ability 3.
Te error message is misleading even though the flagging is correct.

This problem actually occurs with with any skill that is not a part of any skill (group) already.

Huh, didn't think to check that. Other affected skills, bearing in mind that I didn't go through one-by-one:

• Arcana
• Armorer
• Artisan
• Assensing
• Astral Combat
• Chemistry
• Demolitions
• Diving
• Dodge
• Escape Artist
• Exotic Melee (weapon)
• Exotic Ranged (weapon)
• Forgery
• Heavy Weapons
• Instruction
• Intimidation
• Locksmith
• Parachuting
• Throwing Weapons

Using version N. Got a character completed. Turned off character creation mode. Added some karma. Went to raise some knowledge skills. Raised them, but it didn't deduct from my available Karma. Am I missing something?

That statement is not 100% correct...Aptitude will allow you to have a base skill of up to 7 thus making the the Max 10 instead of Nine

I've noticed that the character generators Seem to be Missing the Trust Fund Positive Qualities

It's a bug, that I posted about right after the latest release was released. There is an error in the math for the formula in cell AW8. If you remove the -Free_Knowledge_BP from the formula it works properly, but I've not tested it enough to see if doing that breaks something else.

No, they're there. You can enter a Trust Fund quality by typing out it's exact name, or you can meet the requirement of the Trust Fund quality and choose a SINner negative quality first.