Muspellsheimr
Dec 8 2008, 07:22 PM
You should be unable to add Mobility to SWAT Armor to begin with; it is a Milspec upgrade, & thus only available to Light, Medium, or Heavy Military Armor.
TitanMachine
Dec 8 2008, 07:53 PM
Word on my VPN is that LordTorgo has version 7d. Experimental and unfinished as it may be I would like to scan it. I promise not to hate on any gliches.
Cabral
Dec 9 2008, 04:25 AM
QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ Dec 8 2008, 01:36 AM)
Give him a break!! It Christmas almost.
I seem to recall him being in school as well so he would have finals to worry about to ... Though I could be mistaking him for someone else.
Caadium
Dec 10 2008, 07:11 PM
Deleted due to later revision of this correction. See post #261.
DamienKnight
Dec 11 2008, 06:08 AM
I still exist, just as version 8 exists. Rumors of my demise during finals were exaggerated in a largely Buller-esque fashion, much to my amusement.
I am not a student currently... started working as a programmer after I got my bachelors and haven't resolved to a masters program yet.
I have an 8 week old son, but Netflix on Xbox360 and frustration with XML are more to blame for my slowness. I had previously resolved to have character export/import ready for 7, then I promised to have it for 8. Once again, I am thinking of renigging, and not making such grand promises anymore. I just keep getting distracted by fixes, or by other neat ideas for the sheet (*cough*cyberparts*cough*).
After completely rewriting one of the pages, I found the sheet full of REF errors, and have been working furiously to correct them, adding names to important cells wherever I can (to facilitate the EVENTUAL implementation of Exporting...)
I wont promise a release date (game developers have embittered me to the concept) but I will say things are looking nice and nearly releasable.
I did get the chance to finally use the spreadsheet (first time I have actually sat down and used it since version 3), and made a Goblin Black Magician. Great fun, and gaming with my laptop in front of me instead of a character sheet was nice. (Edit: Oh yeah, and playing on the Ultimate Gaming Table was AMAZING! Holy Crapola it was AWESOME. All hail the Charleston Gaming Group, and LordTorgo and their other skilled advocates. You guys r0x0r my b0x0rz) When I left the game (I was just visiting) I got a chance to use the print feature and was very pleased with the charsheet output (used option 2 since Goblins have so many darn Qualities!). All in all it was enlightening and enjoyable. I came to the conclusion that a big revision needs to be made to the Gear sheet. Digging through the books for each piece of electronics equipment, and each POS little medkit etc. was very tedious, and unnecessary considering the excellent tools Excel provides. I will save that for version 9 I think, since it seems folks are anxious to get a less broken version into circulation.
Oh, btw, do not download any versions called 7c or 7d out there. They may have been made by me, but their distribution is dubious and unwarranted *big grin at Titanmachine*
betterwatchit
Dec 13 2008, 10:42 PM
You should add the advanced contacts rules from Runner's Companion.
Immortal Elf
Dec 14 2008, 09:37 PM
Having just found this particular item, I must say it's very useful for generating characters and I like it quite a bit. I think I'm missing something though and I thought I would ask. There seems to be a Karma log, but is there a way to log improvements to skills/attributes/qualities through Karma usage with the sheet? When I try to use the Karma section on skills, it does nothing to raise them so I'm thinking that must just be for Karma build? And when I try to increase attributes with the Raise box it does nothing to increase them.
Haven't really had the chance to dig too deep into it right now, since Im at work, and I thought maybe by shouting here I could get an answer on if this is something that isn't yet supported or I am doing something wrong.
Bobson
Dec 14 2008, 09:44 PM
QUOTE (Immortal Elf @ Dec 14 2008, 04:37 PM)
Having just found this particular item, I must say it's very useful for generating characters and I like it quite a bit. I think I'm missing something though and I thought I would ask. There seems to be a Karma log, but is there a way to log improvements to skills/attributes/qualities through Karma usage with the sheet? When I try to use the Karma section on skills, it does nothing to raise them so I'm thinking that must just be for Karma build? And when I try to increase attributes with the Raise box it does nothing to increase them.
Haven't really had the chance to dig too deep into it right now, since Im at work, and I thought maybe by shouting here I could get an answer on if this is something that isn't yet supported or I am doing something wrong.
You need to put in the new value that the karma is raising it
to, rather than the number of points you want to raise it
by.
Immortal Elf
Dec 14 2008, 10:18 PM
QUOTE (Bobson @ Dec 14 2008, 03:44 PM)
You need to put in the new value that the karma is raising it to, rather than the number of points you want to raise it by.
Cool, thanks:)
Cadmus
Dec 15 2008, 05:07 AM
Hello, I was wondering if any one has noticed a diffrence with the numbers in this version compared to the older spread sheets,
By what I mean is, I am playing with making a mage with cyberwear, he had a magic of 5 which ofcourse gets droped to 4 after 1 point of essence is used, but the numbers on the main page that show your total counts seems to be adding magic points, What I did was add in second hand alpha pain editor and damage comps, it took my number for magic from a 40 to aroudn 70? like I had added more points to my magic stat, Any other people having this issue?
Caadium
Dec 16 2008, 06:24 AM
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Nov 11 2008, 02:37 PM)
I put in 6 (Cell bpMagic) for 65 BP shown in Cell AA5, the modified magic Attribute (modMagic) is 6 as well. After I added a synaptic booster, modMagic is 5 as it should be, but AA5 is at 40 BP and P11 is at 6 and red. If you enter 5 in bpMagic after the 'ware AA5 increases to 55 but modMagic at 4?!
A couple of days ago I suggested a way to fix this problem, but it would appear that my fix didn't account for a situation like the one Cadmus is asking about. My first fix worked for characters whose cyber lowered their modified magic from max to something lower, Cadmus has the opposite problem of being assessed the 15bp cost when his bought value equals the reduced 'maximum' magic. I've cleared my post from the other day and am submitting a new fix that should correct both the original problem and the one presented by Cadmus.
The error occurs because of the way that the sheet recalculates your maximum magic attribute. Simply put, it factors the bp cost after lowering the max rating due to implants. In order to correct for this while limiting the chances that I'd interfere with other calculations later I chose to use cell AL11 which is normally blank, but technically in the racial min/max section for magic. The solution below corrects BP costs without changing the sequencing or formulas for other calculations.
Disclaimer - This may affect formulas that I've not found yet. If you find that it does please let me know and I'll look for another solution.
There are two steps to correcting the above problems:
1. Change the blank cell AL11 to the following: =FLOOR(IF(Is_Infected,5,6)-modEssence,1)
2. Change the formula in AO11 to the following: =IF(N11>0,(N11-1)*10+IF(N11=FLOOR(modEssence,1)
+AL11,15),0)
I underlined the change that I made to the original formula.
Ehleric
Dec 16 2008, 12:58 PM
I just noticed this one last night, and you'll have to forgive me if it's been mentioned already. On the Hacking sheet, the cost of agents wasn't being summed up with the rest of the prices.
Deus Innomen
Dec 16 2008, 04:51 PM
Man was I glad to find that somebody was updating Autarkis's spreadsheet. It was a great start but lacked so much. I'm finally getting a chance to get into a SR4 campaign starting next month, and was looking for something exactly like this.
Here's my observations regarding the character sheet page, using Beta 7b. This is all using Excel 2007. Forgive me if anything here is a repeat, I scanned the posts a few times before registering and replying:
1) The Notes/Description field for weapons seems to have nowhere to live on the actual character sheet, thereby not actually showing me what mods/enchancements are on my weapons.
2) The Mods box for armor on the character sheet is too small. It allows for three mods but the text gets cut off pretty quickly. (I can see the first mod and rating fully, and only the name of the second mod.)
Also, the comments on the Main Sheet at AD13, AD32 and AD33 are unreadable due to the popup bubble being tiny. I have no idea if this is just Excel 2007 being dumb, though.
I'm not sure if the Character Sheet is one of your "when I get to it" projects, as I can understand some other things having higher priority. For now I'm just scribbling the missing info on my print-out.
Thanks again!
Muspellsheimr
Dec 16 2008, 09:49 PM
QUOTE (Caadium @ Dec 15 2008, 11:24 PM)
A couple of days ago I suggested a way to fix this problem, but it would appear that my fix didn't account for a situation like the one Cadmus is asking about. My first fix worked for characters whose cyber lowered their modified magic from max to something lower, Cadmus has the opposite problem of being assessed the 15bp cost when his bought value equals the reduced 'maximum' magic. I've cleared my post from the other day and am submitting a new fix that should correct both the original problem and the one presented by Cadmus.
I think you may be misunderstanding the issue. Being charged the additional 15 Build Points is for when you increase an attribute (including Magic) to it's Natural Maximum, & Essence Loss reduces the
Natural Maximum of a character's Magic attribute. Being charged for that is correct. Further, Essence Loss reduces the
current Magic as well (including during character generation), so it should always cost 65 Build Points to begin play with maximum Magic, regardless of what that maximum may be due to Essence reductions.
DamienKnight
Dec 16 2008, 10:29 PM
Version Beta 8e is now available!Includes:
- Many Fixes, especially to skill spec costs, magic, and essence calculations
- Revamped Cyberparts page.
- Organized data pages a bit
- Revamped selectable Qualities. Now the drop down will only display valid qualities, and wont be full of spaces in the middle.
- More room for Active and Knowledge skills
- A mild makeover
Things I am aware of:
- No Modular limb support yet
- Milspec still not fully supported
- No Free Spirits
- No Character export. I removed those pages for the public release. XML output is still on the agenda, but a stable working sheet is needed first.
- AI is incomplete. Right now it just mods your primary stats a bit. It is totally experimental and probably non-functioning.
Please check out version 8 and let me know what you think. Thanks again to all of the community who have helped with Beta Testing, and who have been so patient for this latest release.
Werewindlefr
Dec 17 2008, 12:31 AM
Hi and thanks for all the awesome stuff you've been doing, Damien Knight.
I have a small question: how do I access the data tables containing the item list/spell list/etc...? I would like to edit them to include my house rules (would make things easier for my players
) but haven't found where the tables can be accessed. For instance, I can't find "Complete_Spells_Table".
I am using Office 2007.
Thanks again, DK!
Draco18s
Dec 17 2008, 01:28 AM
They're in some hidden sheets.
Which can be accessed by...
On the Format menu, point to Sheet, and then click Unhide.
In the Unhide sheet box, double-click the name of the hidden sheet you want to display.
You'll be wanting Sheet 1
Caadium
Dec 17 2008, 04:01 AM
QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Dec 16 2008, 02:29 PM)
Version Beta 8a is now available!http://www.mediafire.com/file/tddnodx1jml/...aded_Beta8a.zipPlease check out version 8 and let me know what you think. Thanks again to all of the community who have helped with Beta Testing, and who have been so patient for this latest release.
I'm having errors with the cyber/bioware. A datajack is giving me 0s for many values (while the table is correct), but most things are giving me #N/A errors in the lookup fields. If you've got a quick fix, that'd be great. If not, I'll see what I can come up with.
Thanks for all the hard work.
Caadium
Dec 17 2008, 04:08 AM
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Dec 16 2008, 01:49 PM)
I think you may be misunderstanding the issue. Being charged the additional 15 Build Points is for when you increase an attribute (including Magic) to it's Natural Maximum, & Essence Loss reduces the Natural Maximum of a character's Magic attribute. Being charged for that is correct. Further, Essence Loss reduces the current Magic as well (including during character generation), so it should always cost 65 Build Points to begin play with maximum Magic, regardless of what that maximum may be due to Essence reductions.
Since I'm having issues with 8a I don't know if this was corrected there or not yet. That being said, let me better explain the problems that previously mentioned fix corrected.
Before my fix:
A magically active character buys magic of 6, this costs 65 bp. If the character then took any cyber or bio, the reduction to their magic score caused the bp cost to drop to 50. It's been established that the bp cost should remain at 65 even if you take 5 essence worth of cyber and have just 1 magic left.
My fix corrected this problem and kept the bp cost for base magic of 6 at 65 bp no matter how much cyber you put in. The first fix I submitted also fixed this, however then Cadmus presented the following:
Cadmus was making a magically active character but only bought magic of 5. This should, and originally did, cost 40 bp. However, he then put a small amount of cyber into the character. This reduction lowered his max magic to 5. Since 5 is also what he had put in, the bp cost jumped from 40 to 55.
The posted above corrects both of these issues and charges the correct bp for magic no matter how much cyber/bio, if any, you put into your character.
DamienKnight
Dec 17 2008, 05:01 AM
QUOTE (Caadium)
Since I'm having issues with 8a I don't know if this was corrected there or not yet. That being said, let me better explain the problems that previously mentioned fix corrected.
Look at 8a before posting old issues. The was corrected. I even mentioned in the notes that Magic and Essence has been fixed.
If you are having trouble making meaningful posts, here is a quick guide:
1. Read
2. Think
3. Type
I hope that helps.
QUOTE (Werewindlefr)
I have a small question: how do I access the data tables containing the item list/spell list/etc...? I would like to edit them to include my house rules (would make things easier for my players biggrin.gif) but haven't found where the tables can be accessed. For instance, I can't find "Complete_Spells_Table".
I am using Office 2007.
That is an excellent question. The 'Complete_Spells_Table' is the name of a Range, which is now stored in the 'Magic_Data' Sheet. Follow the instructions from Draco18s to unhide the Magic_Data sheet, then goto 'Insert->Names->Define'. Find the Complete_Spells_Table name, then click in its range definition at the bottom of the Name Manager window. It should highlight the Complete_Spells_Table. Also, once the Magic_Data sheet is revealed, you can browse through it for the spell list.
If you are using excel and have macros enabled, you should be prompted when you enter a name not on the list for a skill, language, or quality. Havent added a script for spells, since many seem to be using Open Office and hate on my vbscripts. Someday I will setup a USB version of OO and do some testing, maybe make some Open Office Basic scripts.
QUOTE (Caadium)
I'm having errors with the cyber/bioware. A datajack is giving me 0s for many values (while the table is correct), but most things are giving me #N/A errors in the lookup fields. If you've got a quick fix, that'd be great. If not, I'll see what I can come up with.
You win the golden egg! It seems I did not use completely absolute range references when redefining the 'Complete_Ware_Table' named range.
Grab the fix.
Caadium
Dec 17 2008, 05:47 AM
QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Dec 16 2008, 09:01 PM)
You win the golden egg! It seems I did not use completely absolute range references when redefining the 'Complete_Ware_Table' named range.
Grab the fix.Lets see if I can upgrade that to a Platinum Egg then.
On the Cyberware/Bioware page, cell I33 (total cost) the range is set to through row 24, not 32. It should be =SUM(I3:I32).
Narse
Dec 17 2008, 07:18 AM
Regarding the 8b release (was also in 8a...)
Some of the accessories for the cyberparts seem to be missing. Theoretically most things with a capacity cost can be added to cyberlimbs, yes? I understand that most of these aren't under cyberlimb acessories in the book, but it makes sense that you could install a foot anchor in a leg or retractable climbing claws in an arm.
What I noticed (missing):
Cybereyes seem to have everything they should have
limbs, torso, skull: orientation system, radar sensor
limbs (& torso?): magnetic system, single cybereyes (I get that this would be hard to do as it would have its own sub capacity), all the augmentation cyberweapons & cyberweapon mounts
legs: Foot anchor, grip feet
arms: retractable climbing claws
Cybertorso: Balance Tail
Just noticed: the cyber ears seem to allow the addition of headware & other cyber that takes up capacity, I normaly think that cyberears can only accommodate earware (it seems odd to have a large smuggling compartment in your ears, or an internal air tank for that matter) but I suppose I could be wrong, or it could be advantageous to allow the users to choose these options. [actually I just ran across the large smuggling compartment entry, it seems that it is cyberlimb specific, p336 SR4]
Thanks for the great tool, I eagarly anticipate an even less buggy release.
Ehleric
Dec 17 2008, 01:27 PM
I noticed the same thing Narse did, when playing with some cybereyes I noticed the first row of accessories is eyeware, the rest of the drop down menus seemed to refer to the cyberlimb lists though.
Also, I didn't get the metagenic quality options when I picked a metavariant character.
Awesome work so far Damien, keep it up!
DamienKnight
Dec 17 2008, 03:17 PM
QUOTE (Ehleric @ Dec 17 2008, 07:27 AM)
I noticed the same thing Narse did, when playing with some cybereyes I noticed the first row of accessories is eyeware, the rest of the drop down menus seemed to refer to the cyberlimb lists though.
You will have to describe what you have done to the sheet, because I cannot recreate this issue. In excel 2003 after selecting Cybereye Rating 1, the area called 'Eyes - Cybereye Rating 1 (Standard)' has accessory dropdowns that only display eyeware. Maybe its an Open Office thing?
QUOTE (Ehleric @ Dec 17 2008, 07:27 AM)
Also, I didn't get the metagenic quality options when I picked a metavariant character.
Read the rules on this. Lord Torgo pointed out to me that only Surge characters have access to all metagenic qualities. The only Metagenic qualities that Metavarients have access to is the ones that are specific to their race, which are not optional. Those will be listed on your Charsheet, without you having to pick them.
QUOTE (Cadium)
Lets see if I can upgrade that to a Platinum Egg then.
On the Cyberware/Bioware page, cell I33 (total cost) the range is set to through row 24, not 32. It should be =SUM(I3:I32).
Consider yourself upgraded. Well done... I had not made any characters with enough wares to notice that glitch. Good catch, it is fixed now and 8c is coming soon. Also, Kudos on not flaming me after my sarcastic post earlier.
QUOTE (Narse)
Some of the accessories for the cyberparts seem to be missing.
Good list, I will look into it.
Everyone... thanks for finding the flaws. A wise marriage counselor once said to me, "For every criticism, you should give at least 5 compliments." The forums are certainly not so dynamic a relationship however I think the spirit of the advice applies to many facets of life. While I absolutely want to hear every issue, and am glad to fix them all, I am human. I am (perhaps childishly) slightly wounded that so many posted about everything that was wrong, and no one commented on the redesign of the cyberparts page. Its a tricky bit of design that I felt (overly) excited about. I really want some feedback on it. Right now I understand it has the issue that if you pick 1 cyberpart and load it with gear, then later add another part that is prior on the list, it can displace your parts and require a 'Copy, then Paste Special->Values' operation to move your already selected gear to the new part. But aside from that, it has cleared a lot of clutter from the page and achieved a more dynamic sheet without employing scripts.
Also, the qualities drop down... it was an issue that plagued me for 7 versions... how can I create a dynamic drop down list in excel without scripting? I figured it out, and suspect I am quite clever, and would love to have my suspicions confirmed or denyed. Has this technique been discovered by someone else and is well known throughout the spreadsheet community.. or am I the king of spreadsheets, that all other designers should bow down to, and that will likely face a righteous demise for his haughtiness at the mouth of a hungry divinely driven worm plague?
Deus Innomen
Dec 17 2008, 03:30 PM
QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Dec 17 2008, 09:17 AM)
You will have to describe what you have done to the sheet, because I cannot recreate this issue. In excel 2003 after selecting Cybereye Rating 1, the area called 'Eyes - Cybereye Rating 1 (Standard)' has accessory dropdowns that only display eyeware. Maybe its an Open Office thing?
I can confirm I have this same problem with Excel 2007 actually, with or without Macros enabled. This is on a brand new sheet (beta 8b). I picked "Cybereye Rating 3" and then "Cyberears Rating 3", then moved down to pick accessories. Both accessory areas demonstrate that behavior: the first line is appropriate for the area, the remaining lines are for cyberlimbs. (If I pick a cyberlimb, all of its accessory lines are correct.)
I do like the cleaned up look of the new Cyberparts page, though. If you can get it fully functioning as expected, it will be leaps and bounds cleaner than the old system.
Ehleric
Dec 17 2008, 05:45 PM
QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Dec 17 2008, 03:17 PM)
Read the rules on this. Lord Torgo pointed out to me that only Surge characters have access to all metagenic qualities. The only Metagenic qualities that Metavarients have access to is the ones that are specific to their race, which are not optional. Those will be listed on your Charsheet, without you having to pick them.
Hmm.. I'm going to have to read over those rules again I guess... I'll actually have to SURGE my minotaur to get him his mood hair then...
I do like what you did to the Cyberparts sheet, makes it nice and clean if you've only got a few bits of 'ware. Unfortunately I didn't get a whole lot of time to play with it last night to check out all the reorganization in depth. I just tried to transfer my one guy over to the new sheet and that is what stuck out when I got into work this morning to throw a quick post up here. I'll post more when I get the chance to look at it better.
Narse
Dec 17 2008, 06:18 PM
Yeah, there is some very strange behavior of the cyberparts acessories listings when adding or removing other cyberparts. I got the eyes, ears and skull to display the limb lists (the limbs always display the limb lists) at various times by adding other cyberparts, for some of them, they then switched back to the intended list, when yet another part was added or removed. Very unpredictable.
Anyhow, I think that the new cyberparts design is certainly cleaner that the other versions of the sheet I have (v8 is the first I have tried of the ones you've released) but in some ways I think I like the other layout with everything always visible more. Certainly it is mainly a cosmetic issue but I suppose I just like to be visually reminded of all my options.
Could you explain the new functionality of the qualities drop down, I didn't notice any difference.
I also noticed that there are quite a few entries throughout the sheet that are missing the tag for the book they are from, e.g. "(sm)", but this is a really minor nitpick, as I know where they are in the books I have, and if I don't know what they are they are obviously not from a book I have (e.g. all the qualities from runners companion). And really, the fact that they work right is way more important.
Just noticed that I left out the nanohive from my previous list of possible cyberpart accessories that seemed to be missing.
Well I haven't had time to try them out yet, but I'm really looking forward to using the custom weapons, vehicles, hacking, and new (for me) gear sheets.
[edit]: all this is under OO in case it matters.
Tyro
Dec 17 2008, 11:57 PM
I noticed that Black Market Pipeline: Vehicles still fails to give a 10% discount on vehicles purchased at character creation. The following modifications should be available to melee weapons; all page numbers refer to Arsenal:
Ceramic/Plasteel Components (150)
Chameleon Skin (150)
Custom Look (150)
Easy Breakdown (Judgment call; 150)
Exchangable Weapon Modification (For underbarrel weapons; 150)
Gecko Grip(152)
Metahuman Customization (152)
Personalized Grip (152)
Pilot Upgrade (152)
Powered Slide Mount (For underbarrel weapons; 152)
Propulsion System (So you can call your axe to your hand; 152-53)
Reduced Weight (153)
Skinlink (For communicating with underbarrel weapons, flashlights etc.; 153)
Tracker (153)
Underbarrel Weapon (Gunblades!; 153)
Voice Activation/Response (153)
Gecko grip is very nice if you don't want to be disarmed, chameleon skin is required if you want the full benefit of a chameleon suit, and personalized grip specifically gives a dice pool bonus by RAW. And so on.
Also:
QUOTE (Narse @ Dec 17 2008, 10:18 AM)
<snip>
Just noticed that I left out the nanohive from my previous list of possible cyberpart accessories that seemed to be missing.
<snip>
I've already mentioned the missing nanohive cyberpart on at least one occasion.
QUOTE (Narse @ Dec 17 2008, 10:18 AM)
<snip>
[edit]: all this is under OO in case it matters.
OO?
Werewindlefr
Dec 18 2008, 02:24 AM
Any idea on how to implement cyber suites? Maybe by just having a box to tick which would set a piece of cyberware as part of a suite (multiplying its essence cost and cost by .9?)
And thanks for the replies about the hidden sheets. It was really helpful
.
QUOTE
OO?
Open Office.
Jimson
Dec 18 2008, 05:24 AM
I would like to commend your work DamienKnight! This has been a great tool for me. It has allowed me to create many characters at my work. I do not have much time at home to prepare for Shadowrun, so having an excel character generator is perfect! Thank you.
Tyro
Dec 18 2008, 08:33 AM
Could you give an option for free Knowledge skills as per the BP system rules?
Also, does anyone know why this wasn't included in the Karma system in the first place? RAW just encourage less well-developed characters, and someone with no knowledge skills just doesn't make logical sense. I've taken to buying many of my knowledge skills as knowsofts to save Karma at character creation.
Xerxos
Dec 18 2008, 10:57 AM
QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Dec 17 2008, 04:17 PM)
Read the rules on this. Lord Torgo pointed out to me that only Surge characters have access to all metagenic qualities. The only Metagenic qualities that Metavarients have access to is the ones that are specific to their race, which are not optional. Those will be listed on your Charsheet, without you having to pick them.
I don't think so.
QUOTE (Runners Companion p. 110)
Metagenetic qualities are special Positive and Negative
qualities that can only be taken by characters with the appropriate
genetic background. Only characters that have bought a metavariant
metatype (pp. 70-72) or the changeling quality (p. 73) may
choose qualities from this section.
(emphasis mine)
Ehleric
Dec 18 2008, 01:26 PM
Yeah, that is what I thought as well Xerxos based on that paragraph. Last night I read over the section again and there is a place before that where it states that only SURGE characters pick from them, metavarients just get the innate ones due to their variations. I don't have my book here so I can't quote the page number though.
DamienKnight
Dec 18 2008, 03:53 PM
QUOTE (Runners Companion, p. 96)
The Metagenetic qualities presented later in this chapter are
only available to characters who have first taken the Changeling
quality (see Creating a Changeling Character, p. 73) and as innate
abilities to various metavariants.
I believe this is the statement that has led many to believe Metavarients cannot select any old Metagenetic qualities. I can see why there is confusion, because the quote from p.110 suggests that Metavarients can 'Choose' qualities.
Its possible that when the book says 'Innate' on p. 96, what it is saying is that while Surge characters can have qualities that manifest after character creation (Dormant Surge), Metavarients must choose their qualities at character creation. Its a weak argument though... and merits an explanation from an official source.
Bottom line though, this thread does not exist to discuss or debate rules, but to discuss what the sheet should have. With that in mind, I am going to add a control option for 'Metavarients may Choose Metagenetic Qualities', which can be flipped on if you desire to use this house rule.
If you want to discuss this rule further, I have
started this thread in the Shadowrun Discussion Forum.http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=24680
barrelv
Dec 18 2008, 04:44 PM
QUOTE (Narse @ Dec 17 2008, 01:18 PM)
Yeah, there is some very strange behavior of the cyberparts acessories listings when adding or removing other cyberparts. I got the eyes, ears and skull to display the limb lists (the limbs always display the limb lists) at various times by adding other cyberparts, for some of them, they then switched back to the intended list, when yet another part was added or removed. Very unpredictable.
It looks like the logic for the dropdown 2 - 8 isn't the same as the logic for the 1st dropdown. I copy-and-pasted the 1st dropdown over the other 7 and it seems to work correctly now.
Tyro
Dec 18 2008, 11:18 PM
[Edit]: Double post.
Tyro
Dec 18 2008, 11:18 PM
When I purchase foci in the Magic tab, it doesn't look up the Availability and price, and if I bind one with Karma it doesn't deduct the Karma on the main page.
Mäx
Dec 19 2008, 09:35 PM
Nice sheet, but i have few request
-Main page doesn't have enought room for active skills, i have lots of specialities so i ran out of space.
-Fiberoptic hair seems to be missing from ware list
-Custom weapons stab is nice, but it should have at least four times as many places for weapons and would it be possible to include a option to have multiple similar custom weapons( a cell where you input how many of the weapons in quesion the character has)
DamienKnight
Dec 20 2008, 06:28 AM
Thanks to the excellent support of the community,
Version 8c is now available.Fixed some problems with Foci
Added, Removed and Adjusted some Cyberpart Accessories
Adjusted Qualities_Data so the drop down on the Main_Sheet will not have white space trailing the qualities list
Added Control for Metavarients Surge House Rule. When enabled, Metavarients can select Metagenetic qualities without having the Surge quality.
A few other minor tweaks.
Tyro
Dec 20 2008, 06:32 AM
QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Dec 19 2008, 10:28 PM)
Added Control for Metavarients Surge House Rule. When enabled, Metavarients can select Metagenetic qualities without having the Surge quality.
Could you just make a checkbox to make those Qualities available to everyone? Some Qualities, such as Neoteny, could be plausibly had by non-changelings.
DamienKnight
Dec 20 2008, 06:37 AM
QUOTE (Tyro @ Dec 20 2008, 12:32 AM)
Could you just make a checkbox to make those Qualities available to everyone? Some Qualities, such as Neoteny, could be plausibly had by non-changelings.
No, but feel free to manually enter any qualities you want. Also, you can modify qualities on the Qualities_Data sheet. Simply change the 'Standard' Column from 'N' to 'Y'. Once they have 'Y' in the Standard column, they will be available in the list regardless of Infection or Changeling status.
QUOTE (Mäx @ Dec 19 2008, 03:35 PM)
Main page doesn't have enought room for active skills, i have lots of specialities so i ran out of space.
Good point.
Here is experiemental version 8d. Everyone who is so inclinded, please check it out and let me know if you like the revised Main_Sheet
I have added a Freeze pane, and added alot more spots for knowledge and active skills. Also, I changed the solid borders to dotted lines inside lists. Havent tested it much, so parts may not work, but I am mostly posting this to see if everyone likes the new style before I proceed with it. If you like the classic page better, please give me your opinion.
Brazila
Dec 20 2008, 11:57 AM
Damien you ARE the spreadsheet master. Don't let these guys get you down, this character sheet is the best community made project I have ever seen, you clean it up a bit and it's gonna be good enough for someone to buy it off you man. I am working on some of the gear things we talked about and an email is headed your way soon. Let me know whatever I can do to pitch in with my limited knowledge. I can't wait for you got get the basics done so we can start mad tweaking things. Oh and there is always a seat at the UGT for you bro!!!!
Deus Innomen
Dec 20 2008, 03:59 PM
Oh yeah, I definitely like the Freeze pane idea, it's fantastic to be able to see the base stats and remaining BPs and whatnot without scrolling up and down. Spot on.
Mäx
Dec 20 2008, 11:13 PM
I just don't know partly i agree with Deus Innomen about the freeze pane, but IMHO it just makes the main page look little funky.
But i definedly like the extra space for skills.
Oh and what do you mean with no specializions for langueges. as the page 129 of the BBB has this under the language skill
QUOTE
Specializations: Read/Write, Speak, By dialect, By lingo
Why does the cyberlimb customization cost capacity, it shouldn't.
Where are all the geneware hiding.
Some cyberskull accessories should be availebul withouta cyberskull too, like horns and fibreoptic hair.
Tyro
Dec 21 2008, 12:04 AM
QUOTE (Brazila @ Dec 20 2008, 03:57 AM)
Damien you ARE the spreadsheet master. Don't let these guys get you down, this character sheet is the best community made project I have ever seen, you clean it up a bit and it's gonna be good enough for someone to buy it off you man. <SNIP>
For the record, I agree. I know I've posted a lot of issues I've found with the sheet, and I'd just like to say I do so in order to help the sheet. I love this generator, and look forward to each new incarnation with great anticipation. It's all I use anymore.
[Edit]: I like the new style.
Bobson
Dec 22 2008, 02:31 PM
Lots of changes since I last downloaded a copy. Keep them coming!
Feedback:
Freeze pane: Useful, but feels a bit weird if your window is small enough that you have more lines frozen than moving. Not much you can do about that, though, and I think the utility is high enough to be worth keeping.
Cyberware_bioware tab: I miss seeing the stat columns, but I can always unhide them. The "Notes" field is populating with the price currently.
Cyberparts: Takes some getting used to, but I think I can learn to like it. The behavior when you add a new cyberpart higher up is weird, but again, there's not going to be anything you can do about it, and it's easy enough to fix (yay copy/paste
) Also? I'm not sure you should be able to put breast/penile implants on cyber arms/legs.... On the other hand, I kindof expect that someone, somewhere has a use for that, which kindof scares me
Once you get to it, you might want to consider applying something like what you did with Cyberparts to the Armor section of the gear sheet, since you can easily load armor up with a lot more than three mods...
Keep it up!
DamienKnight
Dec 22 2008, 04:51 PM
QUOTE (Bobson @ Dec 22 2008, 08:31 AM)
Lots of changes since I last downloaded a copy. Keep them coming!
Feedback:
Freeze pane: Useful, but feels a bit weird if your window is small enough that you have more lines frozen than moving. Not much you can do about that, though, and I think the utility is high enough to be worth keeping.
Cyberware_bioware tab: I miss seeing the stat columns, but I can always unhide them. The "Notes" field is populating with the price currently.
Cyberparts: Takes some getting used to, but I think I can learn to like it. The behavior when you add a new cyberpart higher up is weird, but again, there's not going to be anything you can do about it, and it's easy enough to fix (yay copy/paste
) Also? I'm not sure you should be able to put breast/penile implants on cyber arms/legs.... On the other hand, I kindof expect that someone, somewhere has a use for that, which kindof scares me
Once you get to it, you might want to consider applying something like what you did with Cyberparts to the Armor section of the gear sheet, since you can easily load armor up with a lot more than three mods...
Keep it up!
Freeze pane: Thats a good point. I work on a laptop with a very high res. I think I should put a note on the front page (where the frozen pane is the largest) with a comment that explains how to remove a freeze pane.
Cyber/bio tab: I didnt realize people were using the stat mod table on the right. I will show it again... it doesn't really harm the appearance at all, I was just experimenting. Oh, and Notes will be fixed in my next incremental release prior to 9.
Cyberparts: I am considering writing a vbscript to move data when you add parts and displace like that. For people who want to see every part regardless of whither it is cyber or not, I could put placeholders in the selectable cyberlimbs list... something like 'Natural Arm'. That would allow you to fill up all limbs prior to entering any accessories. Personally, If I have a character with just a cyberskull, I dont want to have to scroll down the page looking for it, which is why I enabled the new functionality.
I added a comment to the armor area that should explain how to add more mods to a single piece of armor. You can have more than a dozen mods on a single piece of armor, you just have to put them on the next lines, and select '(mods)' as the armor for that line. I did it like this mostly because of the way I am displaying armor and mods on the Charsheet, and partly because it takes alot less room and makes sense to me.
DamienKnight
Dec 22 2008, 04:58 PM
QUOTE (Mäx @ Dec 20 2008, 05:13 PM)
I just don't know partly i agree with Deus Innomen about the freeze pane, but IMHO it just makes the main page look little funky.
But i definedly like the extra space for skills.
Oh and what do you mean with no specializions for langueges. as the page 129 of the BBB has this under the language skill
Why does the cyberlimb customization cost capacity, it shouldn't.
Where are all the geneware hiding.
Some cyberskull accessories should be availebul withouta cyberskull too, like horns and fibreoptic hair.
Good points all around Max! Keep your eyes open for the next version, I will do my best to address these issues.
bernardo
Dec 22 2008, 05:15 PM
I've been using your spreadsheet for a while and have to say that you are doing an excellent job with it.
Just downloaded the latest version and I may have found a bug in it. When you select a knowledge skill specialization the sheet discounts one point from the knowledge skill points (which is correct) AND discounts two BP from the total (like if it was also discounting the value from a normal skill specialization). I'm not sure if it is a real bug or if it's just my Open Office that misunderstood some xls calculation.
Another issue with Open Office are the selection boxes of the house rules that are dislocated several cells to the right, but that I can fix myself.
Keep up with the good work!
Mr_lynch
Dec 23 2008, 02:20 PM
i've ben playing with the chargen and its great. thanks for making it and making it user friendly.
i need a bit of clarification
when im putting in stats its giving me a point less than i'd expected(i maybe doing it wrong)
e.g i was making a dwarf
the base stats read
2/7 bod
1/6 agi
1/5 rea
3/8 str
1/6 chr
1/6 int
1/6 log
2/7 wil
it has always been an asumption of mine that the first stat point is free as you can't start with a 0 stat. For metatype chars you pay for the points associated with the race. the dwarf being 25bp
therefore every point i add should put the attribute up from the base score.
but if i put 2 in the boxes for the stats it reads
3/ 7
2/ 6
2/ 5
4/ 8
2/ 6
2/ 6
2/ 6
3/ 7
to me this means i'm paying for something i should be getting for free
'Purchase Attributes
As mentioned in Game Concepts, normal attributes range
between 1 and 6. A character’s metatype may adjust the maximums
higher or lower. Augmentation (either through technology
or magic) can allow a character to exceed their metatype
maximum to a certain point.
All characters start with the minimum attributes as noted for
their metatype on the Metatype Attribute Table. Characters also
start with a value of 6 in Essence, 1 in Edge (2 for humans), and a
value of 0 in Magic and Resonance. Initiative is a derived value and
is not calculated until after attribute values have been finalized.'
can someone explain to me why i'm wrong, if indeed i am.
thanks
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