This is indeed a quite nifty CG tool, but I've noticed a couple unsatisfactory features:

a) It is not possible to initiate at character generation if you are using karmagen.

b) Tradition writeups do not use the Street Magic errata (e.g. the Norse Tradition should summon Earth spirits, not Beasts, for Manipulation).

I have not seen this issue. What is the problem exactly?

Sorry, my fault, I had been previously unable to get the initiation section to work correctly. On a second, more thorough check, I was able to understand how it works. My apologies for crying wolf about that issue.

My other remark about the Street Magic tradition errata stands, however.

Having gone through the process of figuring it out, do you have any suggestions for layout/comment balloons/fucntionality that may make figuring out initiation easier for new users?

Fixed all of these. Thanks for the list!


Great job with this Artbomb. I have addressed the drain issue now, so version M will be Drain-bug free!


Defaults were set according to my home game on the last distribution. I will get the defaults restored when I distribute M.



1. They already are instead of typing in the contact name, try clicking on the cell and you should see a dropdown. There is actually a contacts table w/ attributes entered in on the datasheet, though nothing has been implemented that uses it yet. Any ideas anyone has for Contact sheet layout, please send me a mockup! I imagine having a printable page with several contacts per page, kinda like they have in the Missions packet. Maybe this is outside the scope of the SR4CG and needs to be a sheet of its own...



Good catch. I will fix this... no wonder my Trolls were seeming understatted in the Karmagen system... I did not notice that rule!

Edit: Actually, I looked and that is already in the sheet. The conditional formatting is based on cell AE3 on the Main page, named 'Max_Stats_Cost'.



It is based on half character creation points, plus whatever you paid for the race. If you are using the option rule to reduce race cost, then this limit is showing less than it would otherwise.

I suppose that if you have extra points because you are not paying for your race, you would still need the extra lee-weigh in Stat points. I will change this in version M to calculate based on race points, without regard for whither you paid for your race or not.

Until version M comes out, I recommend you just unlock the main sheet and overwrite AE3 (cell just right of Stats listing in karma points) with whatever value you want. Or turn off Creation mode, which will deactivate these warnings.

Using BP character generation with 1Lb, plus the "Martial Arts is NOT a Quality" option, it seems like I'm being charged 10 Karma per Martial Arts advantage (in addition to the 5 BP cost).

Hmm... how about using both prices?

In version M I set the prices such that rating 1 = old prices, rating 2 = new prices. Without changing formulas:

Paramedic: Base multiplier 30400. Base ADD = -16000
Rating 1 = (30400 * 1) + (-16000) = 14400
Rating 2 = (30400 * 2) + (-16000) = 44800

I applied this logic to all of the clusters, and increased their rating limit to 2.

Thats because you are, woops! Fixed in version M. Now you will only pay the karma cost if you put an 'x' in the cell next to the advantage while in BP mode, and then you will not pay the 5 BP.


Fixed all three issues in version M. Thanks Tyro.

Fixed in version M. Appreciate the price lookup Artbomb.

There are still a ton of items without prices in the Gear Tab. I will continue to add the prices as they are posted here in this thread. I could look them all up one at a time, but I just dont wanna do it.

What version are you using, Open Office?

Using excel 2003 I cannot find this issue. Has_Adapsin appears on the MISC page, and Complete_Grade_Table does not have a Background page reference. Are you using version L?

I am finally playing shadowrun tomorrow! Yeeeaaaah!

To celebrate, I am releasing a fixed version of the sheet. I am only posting this on this forum for the regulars to download. Please check through it and identify any big errors so I can fix them before the official release. Hopefully avoid anything like the Spell Drain debacle.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/d1882bvghdx3...CG_DK_1mPRE.zip


I would really like people to look at Vehicles and Weapon mounts and tell me how they can be improved. There was an unintelligible post a little while back suggesting there was an issue with them, but it did not really explain what it was.

As usual, thanks to the community for all the support. Every bug found helps make the sheet better and better!

The Motorcycle Sidecar vehicle modification does not increase the body of the vehicle it's applied to by +3, nor does it reduce handling by 1. However, it properly reduces Acceleration and Speed by 20%.

More than happy to help. I've changed my sig to point at your post, to keep people from being confused with different versions floating around.

You're still missing the discounted Common Use Program Suites for new commlinks in SR4A pg 232

Awesome, I'm off to kick the tires...

Thanks, -- N

Fixed now in version M.

it looks like the handling mods were tracked in the vehicle data page, but was not being pulled in to the final values on the Vehicle sheet. This is now implemented, so look for Handling to be modified by other vehicle mods as per the books.

Added in a check for Body mods. So far in the vehicle data table I added the +3 for motorcycle sidecar. Any other vehicle mods add or subtract from the vehicles body?

Not that I'm aware of, but someone more familiar with the rules may want to check.

Sorry, must've had a brain cramp when I posted that. Using Excel 2007 and version L, and probably gonna have to get off my ass to install an older version of Excel to try and track down how to check this.

Also, just downloaded the mPRE version and found the same issues. The whole lines that cause problems with Adapsin are for "Complete_Grade_Table" =IF(Background!Has_Adapsin,Misc_Data!$M$2:$Q$13,Misc_Data!$M$2:$Q$7) & for "Grade" =IF(Background!Has_Adapsin,Misc_Data!$M$2:$M$13,Misc_Data!$M$2:$M$7), just in case it might help.

Tried searching Google for info on Excel 2003 and this, and I'm guessing at the moment that Excel 2007 has a feature I'm using that just doesn't seem to exist in any earlier version. Especially considering the number of corrupted range references that exist (30+), most of which fortunately seem to be ignored and don't cause any problems.

Hey! Long time reader, first time writer...

I just wanted to say that this is an awesome project that you've undertaken. I've been trying to work up characters for shadowrun (dear god it's painful) and you have really helped me out.

I have found a few odd things in it though - I cannot seem to find the Quality Braggart in the Runner's Companion book (or any book) at all - but the ease of use and the quality of the sheets more than made up for everything.

The only thing I thought I'd ask for, would be that there was a more general Statblock that could be copied and pasted, so people could see the stats easier (although technically the mobile sheet could be done for that)

But.. yeah... WOO! You rock!

It's under poor self control on p. 107 of the RC

And welcome to the mad house that is dumpshock.

The Range defined for 'Complete_Grade_Table' has this:

=IF(Has_Adapsin,Misc_Data!$M$2:$Q$13,Misc_Data!$M$2:$Q$7)

Has_Adapsin = Misc_Data!BU120

Honestly, I am not sure why I put that condition in the Complete_Grade_Table. Its true that Adding the Adapsin Genetic Modification would unlock the Adapsin options... but Complete_Grade_Table is a lookup table, not a list used in dropdowns. There is no reason that someone without adapsin should not have their Complete_Grade_Table list all of the options... so long as their dropdown works.

I suppose if you added adapsin, then removed it during character creation... you could have wares with the 'Adapsin' grade illegally on them. This switch causes your selections to invalidate... but that is kinda Ghetto way of alerting users to errors. I would prefer Highlighting the problem, rather than breaking formulas.

Also I noticed that Has_Adapsin does not appear on the name list, although in 2003 it works like any other name. I will delete Has_Adapsin and re-create it. Maybe that will fix the issue.



Welcome!

Thanks Dakka for answering the Braggart question. Rather than listing a single quality for some of the Negative Mental traits, I expounded their choices each into their own quality. It works much easier on the sheet.

About the statblock... what exactly are you wanting to use it for?

OoooooOOooohh... maybe a Statblock that conforms to Forum Post standards, for more easily copying your character summary into Dumpshock posts?

I am willing to create a Statblock type of page... or even revise the Mobile sheet to conform to a reliable standard...

How about if you Dumpshockers post some suggestions here for layout. You could do a Sample Character post.. or link me to a thread if this has already been sorted out somewhere else.

Edit: I deleted the name and it still persisted! Had to use a Macro to remove it. Took the Conditional out of the Complete_Wares_Table list, and added conditional formatting to Grades to error highlight any grade selection that includes Adapsin when Adapsin is not present. Also added a comment to the Grade field explaining how Adapsin selection works.

Yes.. yes... GOD YES! A statblock like the one you have here would make your Generator number one in the world. That would be most fantastic.

You're my hero.

Can someone link me to a thread where there is an official Character Forum Post format discussed?

Not sure if this has what you were looking for, but here's a thread discussing "standardizing output."

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=24150

Edit: Nevermind, that's an XML thread that you participated in heavily.

Under the Ally tab...

Is there a reason that "Flight" is listed as a Spirit Power?

As far as the books indicate, it's a Skill.

Unless there's a critter/spirit power of Flight that I missed.



-k

Is there any chance of getting the pirated software options into the next version of the sheet? Details on P94 of Unwired. Right now, it's difficult to get options that reduce the price of the program into the sheet.

Other than that, great work, superb sheet.

On the same topic - integrating the software packages/suites into the Hacking page somehow would be fantastic. Also maybe some way to list loadouts for Agents/IC?

Seconded. This would be hugely helpful.

The ability to buy more than one commlink would be really nice.

Spirits can use the flight skill if it is appropriate to their form, IE the ally spirit takes the form of a bird. In this case they would simply have the FLIGHT skill.

Certain types of spirits can innately fly while manifested, as denoted by the (flight) tag next to their Movement attribute. If one of your selected types of spirits is Air or Fire, for example, then you can purchase the Flight power for your Ally spirit, allowing them to fly at their base movement, regardless of their form (so an ally spirit in the form of a person could innately fly if they are given this power).

Rather than track which spirit types have the flight ability, the sheet allows you to pick the FLIGHT power for your spirit regardless of what types of spirits you can normally summon. It is the only universal selectable power on the sheet.

The great thing about spirit powers for your Ally Spirits is that if you dont think a spirit should be allowed a particular power... you can just not select that power for your ally spirit!

If you wish to discuss ally spirit's flight power, please post in the General Discussion forum and PM me a link to the discussion. For now the power will remain in the sheet to facilitate those who support it, and can simply be ignored by those who disagree with it.

Also, if a spirit has flight from the innate power, or flight from its physical form, it uses the Flight skill to determine its ability to Run (Dive) or maneuver. A spirit could have the Innate Flight power purchased, but not the skill, in which case they would default to reaction.



Not really. If I add in Pirate Software detailed options, I am going to have to include a way to track software degradation, which is annoying. If you have any great ideas on how to handle tracking of software degradation on the current Hacking sheet, please send me a mockup via a PM and I will look into it.



My group does not really get into the details of hacking much, so I have never spent much time gearing the sheet toward hackers. Currently we assume that all software is eventually copied (because the piracy tests are so easy) and so you only need to track your programs once. I suppose you may want to have multiple customized comlinks... I suggest putting your primary comlink on the Hacking page, then using the 'Custom Gear' section on the Gear tab to track secondary comlinks. Simply put the attributes for the comlink indented on the lines after the comlink name itself.

Again, unless my group decides to spend alot of time on hacking, I dont see spending much time redesigning the hacking page. If anyone has ideas, or has seen Hacking done better on another sheet somewhere, please send me samples in a PM and I will look into it. I dont mind adding new hacking features, I just dont want to have to spend time designing them, since I have never played a hacker and am not up on all of the rules, and do not intend to change that.

Okay, I just wasn't sure if I'd missed some actual book rule.

Was going nuts searching all over the texts for some "Flight" spirit power, but as far as I have been able to find there isn't one. Some spirits can innately fly, as can some ally forms (like the aforementioned bird), but that is not an actual separate power, it's inherent to the form.

I wasn't suggesting a change in the sheet, just trying to understand why its set up that way. If it's more or less a house rule, I can just ignore it.

I'm primarily using the sheet to keep track of Shadowrun Missions characters, and that campaign does not allow house rules at all. I'm not trying to debate anything, just trying to figure out if it'd be campaign-legal to select the power.

Thanks!



-k

Hmm.... I don't have any idea how to handle degredation. This is an in-game thing, and you have to purchase the updates in game.

However, it would be nice to simply get the option of getting software cheaper. So maybe a checkbox for Pirated to get a 90% price reduction for a particular program, and for the common use programs a checkbox for Open Source or Freeware.

On the other hand, you might just add a "Refund" field to manually input the money saved on copied software.

I think you missed my entire explanation of why I included this as a power and not only as a skill.

Some spirits can fly, independent of the flight capabilities of their manifested form. Fire spirts can fly... even if their manifested form is a giant flaming Gecko with no wings. That makes the flight an innate power, which means it should be selectable for Ally spirits.

An ally spirit with this power could manifest as a fat little dwarf, but then fly... without wings... because he has purchased the innate power of flight.


Use the karma log to track refunds for software. Great place to add money w/ a comment.

Software piracy rules are interesting... as a whole. They give you cheap software with a small nuisance. Without the degredation, its too easy to just get all your software discounted... why would any player pay full price?

I dont want to add anything to the sheet that is going to encourage people to abuse a rule. Until I decide to work the whole thing into the sheet including degredation, I will not be adding anything for discounted software.

Oh, no, I got it, but flight is not a power listed under the "power" sections of each spirit, nor in the powers listing in any of the books. It's under Movement Modes, which by strict RAW means it's not actually a "Spirit Power".

Therefore, while it is totally reasonable to add "flight" to the powers list, it's not listed as such in the books, making it a house rule.

(Though you'd also have to come up with movement speeds for each form - I really wish they'd made movement based off an attribute instead of just assigned to each creature, would make figuring out movement for new critters easier)

I just wanted to confirm if "is this in the books listed specifically as a Spirit Power."

It's not, so I can't use it in Shadowrun Missions. All I really wanted to know. Thanks again.


-k

How do you buy a positive quality with karma?
Putting an x makes it crossed out and not show up on the character sheet, with BP being spent, and karma being spent.
So I figure I'm missing something somewhere.

It's something that's been in the sheet for a while now, and unchanged. As a short term solution you can use the Skill Group Expand BP cell to counter the spent BP from a karma bought quality.

I've looked at the code, and after about two hours or so of messing around in more cells than I needed to, I did find a way to make it all work; two separate columns need to have their formulas changed. There's a side effect on the karma build system that you'll be doubling the cost of your positive qualities, but then we all should be keen enough not to hit that box and really mess things up to begin with (before the change, in the karma build system you're tripling your karma cost).

In the AY column where the cost of positive qualities is calculated, change the formula in AY35 from =IF(AF46>0,AF46,0) to =IF(AND(AF46>0,AG46=""),AF46,0); copy AY35 down through to AY52. This will negate the BP cost for a positive quality marked as karma earned.

In the BH column where the list of qualities is lined up for the CharSheet, change the formula in BH21 from =IF(AG46<>"","",IF(X46="","",IF(ISERROR(FIND("<<",X46)),X46&" "&BI21,""))) to =IF(OR(AG46="",AND(AG46<>"",AF46>0)),IF(X46="","",IF(ISERROR(FIND("<<",X46)),X46&" "&BI21,"")),""); copy BH21 down through to BH38. This will keep the name of the positive quality in the CharSheet regardless if tagged as Earned, but negative qualities will still vanish.

The BP cost of your positive qualities just won't show up on the CharSheet if you tag them as karma earned. Doesn't seem to hurt anything after doing some testing on my own. Of course this doesn't change the gray cell and strikeout that still happens on the Main_Sheet.

Huh? Rules responsibilty has and always will be a player responsibility. If you don't trust your players don't play with them. Having a checkbox on the sheet will allow the GM to quickly and easily check back on this, while any kind of on the fly manipulation will usually remain intransparent.

It also doesn't seem to make sense (from a game world or any perspective) to have to buy hacking software LEGALLY, from legal software vendors. Who then KNOW about all illegal activity undertaken with the software.

Now I understand that software cost is mostly a balance mechanism. As are all other costs. But that is and has always been a poor excuse. Cracking the copy protection on software is largely a trivial task. Writing your own programs is largely impossible, simply for time constraints. However, the piracy rules in unwired make it comparatively easy to get what you want pretty cheaply, so....

Going back to request for ideas to track Degredation:

On the Karma log tab, resolve the game date to calculate passed time for all entries. Maybe do this by defining a Game Start Date. Then, write a formula that calculates degredation for each full month passed. Excel does date subtraction automatically, you only need one more (hidden) box for number of days passed. On the hacking tab add a column for effective software grade. Getting it to do updates per program will be a bitch though. I would think a checkbox to update ALL software on the Karma Log would work.

great sheet, thanks for all your hard work.

can't seem to get the cyberparts page working under open office though, anyone have any suggestions, or do I need to track down a copy of MSoffice?

Tracking in game dates is a good idea. The date field currently in the Karma Log is intended for RL dates, but I could add a second field for tracking game dates.

My group has often discussed the merits of an in game calendar, for tracking passage of game time between runs, listing when gear will be acquired, etc. Putting a calendar in the character sheet could be handy for tracking an individual characters time related info.

Can we make a short list of what Charsheet items are time affected?

Here is what I can think of off the top of my head:

Software Degredation
Docwagon Contracts
Lifestyle
Gear Acquisition
Skill Training Times
Building/Artificing
Day Job $

I almost feel like it would be useful to include an option for tracking hourly activities over time.

For certain tasks, Perhaps it could work so that the player enters in a Task Code, Start Date, Hours required for completion, minimum time spent per day, max time spent per day, max break time. The sheet would then figure out when the job would be completed and flag the calendar for that event, assuming the player spends the Max time per day on the task. The player could then add individual time deviations to a specific calendar day, and the sheet would factor that in for final completion date.

This could also add value to wares/powers that allow you to be awake and useful more hours in a day, and help track the real penalty of the Day Job flaw.

This would be a big change, so it will take some design and review time and may not go into the sheet for a bit, but its something that I think the sheet could really benefit from.

First of all nice work.

But there are a few things i noticed
Why is there no living personna stat block on the character sheet
When i buy the stealth program for a hacker in the hacking section, it dosn't list on the character sheet.

Thanks
T

Also i noticed it dosn't give a hackers stats while using the matrix either

Could you be more specific about the problems you are experiencing on the Cyberparts page in Open Office?

That all sounds very useful, but also very complicated to implement. An in-game calendar can do a lot to improve immersion in the game, IMHO. usually it is just fudged on the go.
You definitely get two thumbs-up from me if you manage to implement this.

Seconded. This would be incredibly handy, and very impressive if you pulled it off.

Why does the generator reduce the PP cost of adept powers with an attached geas?

It's an optional rule. -25% cost but can't be used if the geas is broken. AFB so can't give you a page number atm.

Not the same thing as the Geas quality.

Gotcha. I'll take a look around the SM optional rules.

Hello all.

I have recently started playing SR again and this sheet has been a great help. So thanks to all who contributed.

In this spirit, I'll throw my contribution out there. I am currently playing a drone rigger and I noticed a few problems with the Vehicle sheet.

* Standard upgrades are not listed
- fixed; added standard upgrades to Vehicle_Data
* Modification slots maximums; formula not evaluating correctly IMO: extra modification slots are supposed to be added to MAX(BODY, 4) not to BODY, e.g Ferret Drone should have MAX(4, BODY(1)) + 4 = 8 slots not 5
- fixed formula
=MAX(4,IF(C119<>"",MAX(4,F121)+IF(OR(C119="Thundercloud Contrail (ar)",C119="Hyundai Shin-Hyung (ar)",C119="Ferret RPD-1X",C119="GMC Bulldog Step-Van"),4,0),0))

* Sensor rules; a general mess, I'm sure you agree. So here is what I did.
- removed the 3rd modification column from general usage, changed it to Sensors only; added a count (#) column (e.g. Camera 2 6 = 2 x R6 Cameras) and modified the cost calculation column to reflect this change
- added capacity calculation
- removed Sensor Calculation and changed it to manual field
- unfortunately I did not put in general Sensor calculations, due to houserules in my group and my general unwillingness to implement such stupid RAW rule (also not enough time to play with Excel)

Check it out and see if you want to use any of it.
"DL Link (Mediafie)"

Was wondering aboutthis myself. According to Arsenal, it is optional to use the average rating of the sensors in the sensor packager (a poor atempt to simplify things). Howerver, as standard--you use the value of the applicable sensor. So perhaps not having it calculate would be best-or base it on the best sensor (and if that sensor doesn't apply all you'll need to do is refer to the highest rating of one that does).

Side question-if you remove a standard mod from a vehicle, would you get slots for it? I ask cause if you upgrade armor the old armor rating no longer applies and is assumed to be removed.

Normally you don't get slots for removing standard upgrades, but as a GM I've been looking for a reasonable replacement for the armor capacity rules.

Quick Question: Is there a way, to add custom traditions and custom mentor spirits?

cheers
Phoenix


PS: I love this sheet. Its like christmas!

I have used Open Office and found no trouble using the cyberparts page.

Quoting myself from earlier in this topic:

Traditions are in the same tab IIRC.

Thank you very much! Didn't exactly have the time to browse through 70 pages at work ^.^

I am just curious, where can I read the rules for purchasing a quality with karma after creating with BP system? I was not aware of these rules when I setup the quality sheet.

As far as I understand, qualities can only be purchased during character creation. After character creation, you cannot purchase qualities, but only pay off Negative Qualities with Karma, or replace existing negative qualities with other negative qualities of similar cost in special circumstances, such as if you kill off an extra enemy and dont want to pay karma to remove the negative quality, you have to replace that negative quality with either a new enemy or some other negative quality of equal or greater value.

That is what the sheet supports. If you have a negative quality and put an 'x' in the column for Karma, it charges you double the BP cost in Karma and strikes out the negative quality. It was never intended for purchasing new qualities, as I had not viewed that as an option.


Edit: The comment seems to mention ' if quality was bought off with karma'. This meant you bought off a negative quality with karma. I can change the verbage to more clearly state that it is in reference to removing negative qualities.


If you want to get new qualities after character creation, just add them and put a negative karma entry in the karma log. Your BP does not matter once the character is out of creation mode, and you cannot spend Karma in the BP system until the character has already been put into play.