Damien,
I don't know if this is one of the errors you mentioned above, but I just noticed that Row 46 is not included in some of the calculations.

Examples would be helpful.

It looked like you inserted a row and did not update the references. For example, the concatenate functions does to gather the list of skill names and ranks (including language skills) I think it's also the same way qualities.

I don't know all the calculations that reference row 42. References to the range should be fine (ie. G15:G43) but where each cell is referenced individually (such as in the concatenate function) are likely to be in error.

Thats more helpful cabral. Yeah, I would very much like a different method for concatenating them than that one big statement. It seems like there should be a built in function for cacatenating all items in a range... If anyone knows of one please enlighten me.

Added missing columns in to concatenate function for version Beta8.


I am not seeing this problem. Maybe I fixed it earlier and forgot to reply or make note of it.

On this topic though, I am working on the cyberparts page and need some help figuring out the rules. I noticed that according to the Core book p. 335 each cyberlimb adds one box to the Physical Condition Monitor. Does this only apply to Full Limbs... or does it also apply to lower limbs, or hands/feet? I assume only full limbs, but cant find that specifically in the text.

Oh, and thanks to Damaleon, who has designed a modified cyberlimbs sheet for adding multiple spare modular limbs, which I am working to integrate into version 8.

Melee_Weapon_List in Gear_Data should only go to A68, not A71
Amor_List in Gear_Data should only go to AF84, not AF92

A couple quick google searches doesn't turn up any range-based concatenate functions in excel unless you build your own using a macro. Of those there appear to be a number of them available on the web simply by searching for 'excel concatenate range of cells'. I have no idea how that would translate over to use in OpenOffice.

Anything can be accomplished in Macros, but since they are often incompatible on OO, I have been avoiding them whenever possible.

Having it go a little beyond is handy, if you want to add your own items to those lists. For example, there are a couple of armor options missing from Arsenal (Auto-Injector, Gel Packs, etc.) but I just added the oens I wanted onto the table and did not have to change formulas anywhere. Handy in my opinion.

In excel 2003, whenever you perform an insert inside of a range it extends the range. I changed these ranges to reach down to just one blank space after the list (i think in these instances they were going into the next list). If you are customizing any data sheets, you can 'Insert->Names->Define' and find the name of the list you are looking at, then click in the range definition and it should highlight the range as it is used by the formulas. From there you can tweak the range to fit your new values if necessary, or hopefull, if you are inserting into an existing range, it will have extended with your inserts.

Now this only applies to Excel 2003. I am not aware of what other versions of Excel or OO have the auto-range-extending feature.

Also, this depends on your using the 'Insert' command. Simply adding entries to the end without inserting spaces within the range for them will not extend the range.

Well currently Melee_Weapon_List includes a baseball (throwing weapon), so that can't be right

I threw all of these at the email address I found in the credits page. The version I have is from early October, so I don't know how many of these are still floating around (doing a quick check now), but...


1) Oriental Drakes are attributed a +2 Reaction in dracform, which they do not get, they get +2 Strength (which the sheet says they don't get). RC page 76
2) Fixed
3) Can't add an external smartlink to a gun to make the "this mod needs a smartlink" error to go away (and does a Gas Vent system actually NEED a smartlink? Runner's Companion even mentions that it takes a standard action to turn it off if you don't have a smartlink). Arsenel page 152
3b) Smartlink is not listed as a mod in the mods list, despite being an accessory-slash-mod (internal doubles cost, external is $400). Core page 311
4) Custom weapons costs aren't subtracted from total cash. Half-fixed. The BASE COST is subtracted, but not the TOTAL COST.
5) Adept power descriptions could be updated to say +2 [text] when you have 2 levels of it because each level gives you a cumulative +1 (otherwise why on earth would you ever get Mystic Armor 4 if you don't get any bonus past Mystic Armor 1). Confusing if nothing else. Core page 188
6) Can't find the rules right now, but armor mods (please increase the number of slots by 1 to 4 total) have a limit of, I thought, the higher times 1.5 (so an armored jacket has 12 "slots" (8 + 4) not 14 as indicated by the sheet).
6b) Using the (mods) base item listing it grants a whopping 0 total mods allowed, resulting in an error when mods are added.
7) Manuevers have a limit to the number you can know ("Only two maneuvers may be learned/purchased per level (5 BP) of the [Martial Arts] quality") Arsenel page 158
Additional Clip may have a rounding error, when I did the math on paper (extended clip and additional clip, extended is explicitly rounded up) I got 48, the sheet says 47. Arsenel doesn't say if Additional clip rounds up or down, but.... For SMGs that last 1 bullet does make it an even 3 for burst firing, so.... Arsenel page 149 and 150
9) (minor and annoying--not checked for this post) Some comment boxes aren't large enough or are oddly shaped:
a) Type of Awakened on Magic sheet (too narrow, words broken across multiple lines).
b) Earned after char gen checkbox on Contacts on Main Sheet (both), also Qualities "earned after"
c) Karma System on Optional rules.
d) Languages (last word cut on unseen line).
e) Base Magic square (last line and a half unseen).
f) Max bound spirits
g) Adepts powers (both boxes--comment box seems to have been shrunk horizontally to 0 pixels)
10) Fixed
11) Negative Qualities doesn't complain if you go over (under?) the maximum of -35 points (in normal games the limit is 35, this 800 BP...thread doubled everything, so we're using 70, which is why I ran across it).
12) Paid (under the debt) could maybe use a comment indicating that this is where you put money that has been put towards paying off the debt. Up to you, I just saw it and went "I think I know what that's for, but..."

I think I found it, if you haven't yet. Cell P11 is referenceing O10 instead of O11, so it's using your karma-raised edge as your karma-raised magic value

Fixed drakes. Added top mount and underbarrel Smartgun Systems.
3b: Yes, its listed as 'Smartgun System' as stated in the book. Even in versions prior to 8 adding Smartgun System doubled the base cost of your gun and made your gun compatible with smartgun enabled mods.
This is true of the first custom weapon (the second and third were being added correctly). Fixed the first custom weapon in 8.
Added formulas that will replace '+1' in description with the actual rating when the rating is greater than one. Changed description for Power Throw to '+2 Str per rating...'
Not having read the rules, I was setting the limit at Ballistic + Impact (3rd Edition rules). Changed SUM(H,I) to MAX(6,ROUNDUP(MAX(H,I)*1.5,0))).
6b: As it seems you have guessed, (mods) is there to give you the option of having 6 or 9 mods on one piece of armor. Made the slots/MAX cell blank when mods was selected. If you are going to use more than 3 mods to one piece of armor, this facilitates that but you will have to track the slots yourself.
Fixed.
It was set to ROUND, which should round up on .5, but changed to ROUNDUP just to be certain.
d,e-Fixed in 8. Rest... I must have fixed these in a prior version.
Conditional formatting was referring to row 8 instead of 9. Fixed.
Fantific suggestion. Done.

Add Sign Language to languages. It's the only one a drake could use in dracoform (only oriental, probably), which is why I found it was missing.

And great on the fixes.
6b: yeah, you'll have to do it yourself, I figured as much, but at least it's not throwing meaningless errors.
3b: Ah! There it is. I scoured all over for it and kept missing it.

Thought I had another thought. Guess not.

I just had a thought, not exactly sure how complicated this would be though... I've been using this sheet to make up NPCs; notable people, other runners my players might run into to either run along side of or against, etc. It would be kinda cool to have another sheet in here somewhere that would list out common dice pools. Things like Dodge, perception, melee and ranged attacks. Just so you wouldn't have to keep adding the attribute and skill together every time their turn came up. You'd just have the sheet open, and there you go. They need to dodge? Roll 20 dice and keep on going

Adding Sign language. By the way, after your huge list of fixes (very helpful, thanks for that) I was inspired to change my signature


Thats not a bad idea Ehleric. I think it warrants a new sheet in the workbook. I am focusing on getting the xml output working, but if anyone would like to create it, it can be easily integrated. Just design the sheet how you like, then create a list of cells on the right with labels for the base contributing attrbutes (Perception Skill, Intelligence, Dodge skill, Reaction etc.), and let all your formulas point to those cells. When I import the sheet I will replace the numbers that you use for testing with name variables that point to the attributes in the sheet.

It is important to have a sheet only contain references to itself if I am going to import it, or else Excel will add on file paths to the original workbook which I will have to manually delete (pain in the butt).

If anyone has any ideas for new sheets, just whip em up and toss them into www.mediafire.com and PM me a link. If it seems to fit in the Generator nicely I will include it in the next release.

Actually, one of the best ways to do that would just be to grab the Active Skill list on the main page, copy it, figure out the attributes, list both numbers, then have a cell show the total.
If you wanted, you (DamienKnight as opposed to a generic reader) could pick out some of the skills you consider the important ones and have a space for them in such cases as the player doesn't remember to take those skills. What? Didn't take dodge? Well, here's what you roll anyway.

Hum...actually, there's an idea. List all the common ones regardless of character (perception, armor, dodge, etc.) then allow the user to tick individual skills that they have that they consider common (Hacking for the decker, spellcasting for the magician, etc.) and have that second sheet pull those instead of just everything.

And your welcome on the fixes. Given the complexity of the sheet, I'm not surprised that there are errors and you always need help finding them.

I am too lazy to go back through the list of errors to see if this has been reported yet, but I noticed on CharSheet cells P7 and T7 both refer to "Toughness",Main_Sheet!$U$33:$U$46,0 and it should be "Toughness",Main_Sheet!$V$33:$V$46,0

(sigh) Or it could be I loaded the wrong version by mistake...

DOH! Nebbe mind!

Ooooooookaaaaaayyyy...

It was an error on the old v6 and was continued onto the 7b sheet shifted over by one column.

CharSheet cells P7 and T7 both refer to "Toughness",Main_Sheet!$V$33:$V$46,0 and it should be "Toughness",Main_Sheet!$W$33:$W$46,0

Using it right now. Noticed you can't add/house nanohives or magnetic systems in a cyberlimb.

Maybe this is a question for another post, but the modular cyberarm rules confuse me. Basically, is the plug 'meat to metal', or is the plug 'metal to metal'? That is, in order to get a modular cyberhand do you have to purchase the whole lower arm, and the lower arm is fixed but the hand can be taken off? or do you just put the hand on a stump?

Same for lower arms, one joint up.

The default modular cyberlimbs are set to replace the full cyberpart. Detaching parts of a limb would require some houseruling regarding capacity limits IIRC.

So the RAW version is always a stump, metal-to-flesh unless we are talking full limb replacements on a character with cybertorso.

The way I understood modular cyberlimbs was like Cyborg in Teen Titans: it's metal to metal, but the metal on the limb is just enough to act as a connector: you don't have to reattach nerves every time.

Metal to metal.

I noticed when building characters that making a piece of 'ware Alpha increases its availability by 2. This makes sense to me, but I can't seem to find the relevant passage in the core book.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that makes alpha-deltaware harder to come by than basic ware is the restrictions on why kind of setup can install them. (p122 Augmentation)

Arsenal 165, there is no availability modifier on ANY cyberware except secondhand (-1).

Correct, the increased availability of higher grade wares is not in the rule books.

According to the Core Book, "Alphaware is more Essence friendly than standard cyberware, but is more costly as well. Betaware and deltaware are even more Essencefriendly and expensive, but are also harder to acquire and are not available to starting characters."

It seems that in the interest of simplifying things, SR4 removes availability modifiers for Cyberware Grades in the Core Book, and simply said 'Starting Characters Cant Have Beta/Delta at start". This is an unnecessary and inadequate simplification, which is apparent in later books. When they added a new Grade in the Augmentation book, 'Secondhand', they decided to go against their simplification and add an availability modifier.

And then in the Runners Companion they added new qualities, one which raises the 12 availability starting limit to 16, and another that allows players to purchase one Item at availability of 20 or less. Since the Core book was assuming a 12 availability limit, it simply said Beta/Delta is a no-no... But if you pay for a quality that allows you to get hard-to-get items at start, why shouldnt you be able to apply this to Cyberware?

The simple answer is, you should not be able to because the Shadowrun rules dont specifically allow it. My group's answer and house rule is to facilitate it through using Availability modifiers on Otherwise unattainable goods.

The modified availability is not a mistake, but a house rule. I could add a switch as other house rules, but it is not in my interest to add switches for every Optional or every house rule, especially when they are not affecting the usability of the spreadsheet. If you do not like the modified availability of Different Grades of Essence, simply dont get Beta/Delta ware on your starting character, and ignore the modified availability of Alphaware.

I appreciate the clarification. This makes much more sense to me than does the "core" ruleset, and works nicely with Augmentation. Thank you!

Actually, if your house rule makes cyber/bio that is normally available at chargen by RAW (ie, Alphaware Cyber Torso) appear unavailable, it is impacting the usability of the spreadsheet.

For those that don't want to use Damien's house rule, unhide Sheet1 and find the Grade table (named cell reference of Complete_Grade_Table)
You can reset the values to RAW (0,-1,-1,0,0,0) or something else more to your liking. (Maybe you liked old school costs and want to make alpha-delta cost x4, x8, x10.)

Are there any other house rules incorporated into the sheet?

It'd be hugely complicated, but it might be nice to just have a "House Rules" sheet, where things like maximum BP worth of positive and negative qualities, starting BP, Availability of 'ware grades, etc. are all listed and editable.

I don't know if this has been noted already, but the sheet doesn't know how to calculate the average of limb attributes when you have a partial cyberlimb.

Also, I noticed that when I got muscle toner 2, Agility went up by 1... 3, by 2... 4, by 3.

Often when I enter something into active skills (and a few other places) it puts spaces (usually 2, sometimes more) before the entry. This does not appear to be related to whether or not the entry in question is a specialization.

I think most or all of my other complaints have been handled above.

[edit]: The Availability of the Obvious cyberskull should be 16, not 6; the Obvious cyberskull with casemod should be 20, not 10. Pages 336 core (basic availability) and 165 Augmentation (casemod availability modifier).

Yes, if the availability of your Alphaware is raised by two, and the cell turns yellow, requiring you to mentally subtract 2 to determine weither it is actually available in RAW... I can see how that would make the sheet unusable. I mean, a cell... in yellow. Mentally subtracting 2 from 13 or 14... jeez, I am so sorry for causing this huge problem.

Ok, I done being sarcastic. Added 'Wares Availability House Rule' to the option rules list. Click it to turn it off and use the broken RAW rules. Yay for Used Alphaware! Who will ever want to get Standard grade again, since used alphaware is easier to get, same price, and lower essence. In fact, I am just going to remove standard grade from the sheet, because why would anyone ever want to use it under the super-awesome RAW wares availability rules?

Alright, I guess I wasn't done being sarcastic. Sorry. Look for the new Wares switch in Beta 8.

Its not hugely complicated. There is already a section for house-rules and optional rules on the main sheet, it would simply require moving this section to its own sheet and adding a couple of variables to it.

The question is, is there a need for it? Currently I very much like having the switches on the Main sheet. Its nice and easy to update. Adding a sheet for changing the BP is insufficient reason. Cell AB12 is unprotected. Simply change the value there. If you have a houserule that allows a different Quality limit, simply Ignore the Conditional Highlighting on Qualities. If there becomes a list of house rules/variables that is long enough, I will examine the possibility of moving them to a separate sheet.

You are sane like me, and I appreciate that.


Every man is wise when attacked by a mad dog; fewer when pursued by a mad woman; only the wisest survive when attacked by a mad notion.
- Robertson Davies

Correct, the sheet does not distinguish between partial and full limbs. It also does not facilitate modular limbs, nor does it increase your hit boxes for each full limb. These problems are remedied in version 8.


I would have to know your race, BP put into agility, and number of cyberlimbs and associated agility augmentations if I were to identify the problem. What I see is this: Muscle Toner raises agility by its rating. If I get enough cyberlimbs (which have base agility 3) they can pull down the average agility, which could cause you to see a lower return on Muscle Toner.

Think like this: If you have two cyber legs and two cyber arms, the only place muscle toner would help would be your torso and head, so 3 points of agility bonus in the torso and head would not add 3 to your overall agility.

There was a problem with the averaging in Beta 7, in that it was Rounding the average, when it needs to be Flooring it. Fixed in Beta 8.


Oh, if only I could figure out how to add spaces in front of specializations. I tried very hard in the Custom Formatting setting to come up with a way for this, but alas I could not. There should be two spaces in front of any Active skill that could potentially be part of a skill group. If you could list any active skills that have more than 2 spaces, I will promptly fix them.

I find that the spaces makes it alot easier to identify the Group relationships. If your remove them, formulas that check for a certain skill (like max # of spells) will fail, so dont do it.

Were you to fully subscribe to the philosophies of your signature (which are very clever btw), you might instead say "Besides the issues noted above, it seems our hard work has really paid off, as the bugs I have previously reported are resolved."

As you have aptly noted, I have duly complied. Corrected in Beta 8.

Well, I started off thinking of it as a whole page with large amounts of house rule specification, but then I got bogged down and ran out of ideas. Mentally, it's the difference between having a checkbox to specify "Use custom 'ware availability" and having four fields to specify what those four custom numbers are. I do admit to choosing poor examples. :/

We have AIs added in yet? I went to start on this one idea and noticed that AI wasn't selectable.

I'm sure it'd take a lot of rewriting, sadly (no physical attributes, etc). :-\

I said impact (particularly for those who don't memorize availability), not render useless.
I actually prefer going over to Sheet1 and monkeying with the costs myself ... easily done with or without your switch

(" "&Cell reference) doesn't work? It should. Is Excel auto-trimming the leading spaces? It works in OpenOffice (but I still can't get the char(10) to work.

Nope, not yet. I actually played with an AI sheet just a few days ago. All you really need to do is manually set the physical attributes to 0 in the X/Y section (which requires unprotecting the sheet), then kill any errors that causes. Set Edge maximum to the average of the four mental stats, then set your total BP to 290, and otherwise treat the character as human

That sounds very easy. If that is all we need, I can setup the cells to respond accordingly if AI is selected for race. Isn't there more to it though... like selecting from a different skill list? By the way, I realized that List Validations can utilize very complex functions, which inspired me to redesign part of the cyberparts page. Cant wait for everyone to see it

Well, they do have 2 special attributes: Firewall and...shoot, one of those other comlink ones (the other two are the same as the node they're in).

There are a few funky things but I'm not sure how they work (programs and whatnot).

AIs have Mental Attributes, Edge, Rating (average of 4 Mental Attributes) and used as maximum for Edge. System and Firewall is derived from Mental Attributes. An AI's home node's 4 matrix attributes are improved by the AI's Mental Attributes.

They are also restricted on what qualities they can buy and have 2 AI only qualities.

I think they have all the normal skills, but they can't use any physical/combat/etc skills unless they're running a drone that can do it, so they're not the smartest things for the AI to buy (that's what autosofts are for).

Thank you for that clarification. I was wondering why I had max spells zero!


That's what I meant; in my defense, I was tired and in much pain at the time
I very much appreciate the work you've done here, and look forward with much anticipation to the next incarnation of the sheet.

I've been collecting odd quotes for years; those are just a few of the ones which touch me the most. I'm glad you like them.

Oh, and I think this has been mentioned before, but just in case... the Magic final attribute seems to be referencing Edge, regardless of what you pay for in the Magic box.

[Edit]: I just tried to put an internal silencer in a Hamerli 620S, and the entry (for Silencer) turned yellow. The only other modification on the weapon is Electronic Firing. I can't seem to find a rule which makes any of these things incompatible.

This is a great spreadsheet Damien, I really enjoy working with it. Here are a few things I've noticed:
* Media Junkie negative qualities from Unwired are not listed
* Replacing the vehicle armor should take up Mod slots: 1 for normal, 2 for Concealed or Smart
* The GMC Bulldog Step-Van should get 4 additional Mod slots

Great work on this. I hope you get all the bugs worked out!

Nanohives are not listed in the cyberparts tab (for those of us who want to spend Capacity, not essence).

Also, I was thinking you could treat it like a limb and give it space on that screen for adding nanite colonies (just like adding augmentations to cyberlimbs).

My 2 cents.

[Edit]: I just noticed you don't have auto-injectors listed in cyberparts either. Zero capacity cost ftw!

I just noticed that selecting an infection doesn't unhide the magic attribute. The essence bit was mentioned before, so maybe this is already being worked on. The infected should be able to increase their magic attribute (RC p77).

Great job so far! We have houseruled the skill costs to 50% (ala Frank). I changed the cells to reflect this, and everything works great :)
Huge thanks from Finland!

Trid Phantasm has a listed Drain Value of (F ÷ 2) 3 instead of (F ÷ 2) + 3 (missing plus sign)

[Edit]: The heavy crossbow is just listed as "Heavy".

[Edit 2]: When I create a SURGE III character in Karmagen and choose SURGE III in the Negative Qualities section, it starts giving me Karma after 15 (as if I was using BP) instead of 30 (the proper Karma value) points of negative metagenic qualities.

[Edit 3]: PPP Leg and Arm Casings should have the option of only wearing one or the other (and possibly a houseruled reduced price for same) for +0/+1 instead of +1/+1 (for if that extra +1 is putting you over limit)

[Edit 4 (Yes, I've been doing a lot with the chargen tonight)]: The harpoon gun's ammo should read 5m (Arsenal 18); Light, Medium and Heavy crossbows should read 4m (306 core).

[Edit... screw it, when is someone else going to post?]: Natarki (and anyone who picks Shiva Arms) need 2-4 extra limbs in the "cyber parts" tab.

Menehune should have dwarven stat modifiers


Just to clarify, I'm not complaining. This generator is awesome, even with all the bugs, and most of them are fairly easy to work around. I just want to help you make it even better

Might want to change "Infection" to "Race" or sumsuch where the point costs are displayed (to the right of the attributes) It was confusing trying to figure out why the elf character I'm building listed a 30 point "Infection" cost.

So at what point do we plan a Run on DamienKnight for this mythical Beta 8?

Give him a break!! It Christmas almost.

Anyway, I was just using The latest version 7B for an NPC and I noticed when I tried to add Mobility II to the SWAT Armor it did not take up capacity, it does add capacity if I use the rating and setting it to 2 but only uses 2 points of capacity (should be 4). So I don't think it is WOAD, but I could be wrong.