HeySparky
Jun 21 2007, 10:17 PM
WR
et al
Is this part of town wholly uninhabited so that there aren't any comms except the gangers and their associated NPCs? (If it matters, Badmarsh makes all his girls carry comms with good signals).
And would a hidden comm show up? Guh, why isn't this stuff clearer?
Vegas
Jun 21 2007, 10:26 PM
Concerning Hidden Mode:
Hidden states (p. 211 BBB) Your PAN is invisible to other nodes unless you access or authorize them. PAN users in hidden mode are said to be "ghosting" since there is no way for other users to see them.
Detecting Wireless Nodes (p. 225 BBB):
Locating a particular Passive or Active node within range takes only a Free Action. Finding a particular node in a crowded area might be more difficult. Make an Elec. Warfare + Scan (Variable, 1 combat turn) Extended Test against GM determined Threshold.
Finding a wireless node in Hidden mode however is more challenging. Even if you know what you're looking for you must still succeed in an Elec. Warfare + Scan (4) test. If you're just scanning for hidden nodes in general, or trying to pick the hidden nodes out from the non-hidden ones, made the same extended test noted above, but with a much higher threshold: 15+
(Emphasis mine.)
And that's before Wireless interception, not to mention decryption.
WinterRat1
Jun 21 2007, 10:31 PM
Sparky
My interpretation of Hidden Nodes is that you will not even know they are there unless you succeed in an Electronic Warfare + Scan test per SR 4 pg. 225.
Pretty much the only people out and about right now are gangers, and they'd all be running on Hidden because they don't want their rivals to know where they are or even that they're out there.
Hidden mode allows pre-authorized users to communicate with them per SR 4 pg. 211, so gangers wouldn't need to run on Active or Passive, they could simply pre-authorize their fellow gangers to communicate with them.
I'm having the girls on Hidden right now, because Badmarsh would only want them to communicate with him or each other. Certainly they aren't going to be working right now, things being what they are.
Technically speaking, Leon's commlink would pick up other signals, but since Bockscar wants to get in touch with Hammerpack members, he can just use Leon's pre-authorized list to do so. Yeah, comm traffic is nil right now, but this is the Barrens, that stuff happens.
The fact this isn't clearer is aggravating, but let me know if this clears up anything for you.
HeySparky
Jun 21 2007, 10:35 PM
That's what I understood, both from Vegas and from WR.
So Bockscar wouldn't be able to see the 'other' comm mentioned. I'm guessing that was for Nevada? If he does succeed in detecting hidden stuff, he'd see the girls too. That's all I was getting at.
WinterRat1
Jun 21 2007, 10:38 PM
Correct. Bockscar cannot 'see' Nevada's comm. Nor can he see the girls' comms, since he didn't score enough hits for that.
Rob - For clarity's sake, please edit your post to show only one comm detected, not two. Thanks.
EDIT: And per an earlier request, would you please edit your June 16th post to show the correct location on his time/date/location stamp?
yoippari
Jun 21 2007, 10:42 PM
@Konsaki[ Spoiler ]
I'm assuming you mean 138th Pl NE. 1 Block away.
Reaction Roll: Reaction 4 -> 4d6 -> [6,6,3,4]=2 hits
LinkSoak Roll: Body 3 + Ballistic 6 -> 9d6 -> [6,6,6,3,1,6,4,5,5]=6 hits
Link1st Pilot: Reaction 4 + Pilot(Bike) 3 -> 7d6 -> [1,6,1,4,6,5,2]=3 hits
Link2nd Pilot: Reaction 4 + Pilot(Bike) 3 -> 7d6 -> [6,5,1,5,1,3,4]=3 hits
Link3rd Pilot: Reaction 4 + Pilot(Bike) 3 -> 7d6 -> [6,4,1,5,3,6,4]=3 hits
LinkI guess I get 3 hits on my bike tests. I'm suffering a -1 modifier due to 2 stun damage that is not taken into account with those rolls. Reduces my soak roll by one hit, all others are unchanged.
Edit: color of links changed
rob
Jun 22 2007, 02:44 AM
Fair 'nuff, it's still not a meaningful thing. I'll edit my post to account for that.
I'm going to stick to my guns about the ability to detect signals, though. If anybody brodcasts anything on power enough to overlap my antenna, I should be able to hear it. Just like in RL. Note that this applies to my comms as well, any raider within 1 KM should be able to detect if I broadcast anything with my high power commlink (not leon's, like i'm doing right now) Reasoning is in spoilers for brevity's sake.
[ Spoiler ]
Wow, beginning to see why this rigger/hacker stuff is so complicated to GM.
Even if your node is on Hidden, if you want to communicate you have to broadcast something on the radio. I have no issues with not seeing Nevada's comms, because she hasn't broadcast anything. But if she wants to talk to ANYONE, there has to be some way for the signal to get from here to there. Like the radio. Broadcast anything on the radio, and everyone else (if they're listening on the right frequency pattern) will be able to hear it (including if you're broadcasting among nodes slaved to your PAN, but you'd have to be close to intercept the traffic since they're signal 0. Hence the value of skinlinks). I perceive hidden as being more of a wireless protocol thing and generally minimizing signals, but if you want to use any wireless-radio device you have to broadcast, and others can listen.
Hence the difference between sniffer and scan. Intercepting comms is much easier, since I'm just listening to the radio. Scan looks for commlinks that are active on the matrix or somehow willing to accept INCOMING signals. Sniffer looks for OUTGOING radio signals, and the rating is the number of frequencies and frequency patterns it can monitor. Sniffer would not be able to detect, for example, wireless traffic from a small device to the nearest cell phone tower, unless the receiver's within that small device's signal range. It would be able to detect wireless traffic from the cell phone tower to the device, unless the tower broadcasts on low power to things nearby.
I fully admit the unclarity of the rulebook, but sniffer has to be useful for something; and high power radios have to be useful for communicating directly or there's no point in buying signal ratings.
Meriss
Jun 22 2007, 03:16 AM
@yoippari: Use color tags if you are going to use url tags in spoiler tags
eg [ url=forums.dumpshock.com ][ color=red ] link [ /url ] [ /color ]
looks like this in a spoiler
[ Spoiler ]
yes more typing but less eyestrain.
@rob I'd say wait for Unwired, but that ain't going to be out till 2008, so let's go with what we got and hope somebody gets it right in unwired.
rob
Jun 22 2007, 03:20 AM
@Meriss - duly noted, but still sticking to my guns on this one. I'm not really saying anything that's different from real life. I mean, there's not much point in buying sniffer or ECCM if a rigger can just run all of his drones on hidden mode and never have to worry about them being detected.
Edit, p. 225 of the rule book, top right corner, describes what I'm trying to do.
yoippari
Jun 22 2007, 03:58 AM
@Meriss
I tried using color before and after the url tag but the standard url trumped the color it was sitting in. Thanks.
HeySparky
Jun 22 2007, 04:16 AM
For the record, I agree with rob on this one. His radio signal scanner should be able to detect any outgoing signals (see 325, it acts like sniffer), and unless the comms are encrypted they can just be listened to.
I have Encrypt and I'm gonna take this little moment of meta-gaming to swap out the programs I have active on my comm. From Browse to Encrpyt. Only because it's a blindspot of me as a player to not have that loaded, not Marsh's as a seedy denizen of the Barrens.
If anyone objects, let me know.
Meriss
Jun 22 2007, 04:59 PM
@rob: I wasn't arguing with you.
I agree with you that the Radio Scanner sensor acts as Sniffer At least thats how I read the rules. Which is why my rigger and my burgler Adept have Radio Scanner sensors.. I'm just hoping that Unwired will bring a little clarity to the wireless matrix that we're living with now.
@Yoippari: Yeah, took me three edits to figure that out. url tag then color tag *shakes head* BBcode confuses me sometimes. *sigh*
yoippari
Jun 22 2007, 08:39 PM
@Meriss
It makes sense though. Url seems to have a built in color tag. Tags stack from the inside out. So you need to change color from within the other color tag.
A scanner should pick up anything that can broadcast that far. How it sorts out all the signals is hand wavy but it would at least get something.
Meriss
Jun 22 2007, 08:43 PM
@yoip: That actually makes sense. It explains why links are always the same colour.
@all: The IC thread is going to fall off the front page.
Side note: Emergence is out in PDF check this thread
link
Konsaki
Jun 22 2007, 08:53 PM
@All
I'll be online with enough time to post replies and IC stuff in around 20 hours or so.
WinterRat1
Jun 22 2007, 08:57 PM
My Players
Reminder: Just because I set time/location limits not to go past doesn't mean you can't post. The intention is that you all coordinate to post gradually closer to the aforementioned times and I'll take it from there.
adamu
Jun 23 2007, 02:03 AM
Winter
I know how you feel.
At the moment, I am in a position to IC our trio's arrival back Legion, but didn't want to step over the conversation Doc started with Thumper (which Grack cannot hear over his music).
But if you need things pushed forward before that gets resolved, let me know and I'll link us back up with Legion IC.
Meriss
Jun 23 2007, 02:57 AM
Annnnnd we're off the front page.
Mister Juan
Jun 23 2007, 03:11 AM
QUOTE (Meriss) |
Annnnnd we're off the front page. |
Have faith.
Vegas
Jun 23 2007, 03:21 AM
QUOTE (Mister Juan) |
QUOTE (Meriss @ Jun 22 2007, 09:57 PM) | Annnnnd we're off the front page. |
Have faith.
|
Or just change the number of threads you display under each sub category
Vegas
Jun 23 2007, 03:23 AM
Konsaki
Nova is up on the wiki and ready for review minus a few incidentals (like carried vs. stored gear and a finishing out the takes section).
Vegas
Jun 23 2007, 03:38 AM
@ Everyone
Everyone should have Nova added to their takes pages waiting for each ganger's impressions.
adamu
Jun 23 2007, 03:53 AM
Welcome Geisha!
Glad to have you on board.
Geisha
Jun 23 2007, 04:37 AM
@adamu
Thank you, for the welcome.
I really wanted to play this game, and I am so glad I finally join the gang.
Abbandon
Jun 23 2007, 07:07 AM
@Geisha/Nova , Sparky, and VegasCouple of things i saw when looking his character over...
[ Spoiler ]
#1. Didnt pay for his cyber with essense. You pay full amount for whatever you have the most of and then half off the other type. He has .7 and .7 so that should be around 1 or 1.1 essense total loss.
#2. Geisha you might want to list that your predator gets smartlink for free in your gear list and choose what and how your carrying stuff.
#3. is more for Sparky and Vegas. Somebody loped off the bottom of his mechanics page. (wasnt me hehe).
#4. Oh and to whom i may concern. He has all those stun weapons and I dont know the official damage values for that stuff i guess. I think they changed between the book and the SR4 Errata or something especially SnS ammo. I filled in the book values anyway. So if anyone knows the official numbers they can correct that stuff.
Man Adamu/Grack makes me feel so lazy. While i was filling in my take of Nova I realised I could have related everybody to sim characters or something. I am constantly flip flopping on Fool personality though between crazy about sims to just a fairly selfish almost evil guy. So thanks Adamu!!
Geisha
Jun 23 2007, 07:30 AM
QUOTE (Abbandon) |
@Geisha/Nova , Sparky, and Vegas
Couple of things i saw when looking his character over...
#1. Didnt pay for his cyber with essense. You pay full amount for whatever you have the most of and then half off the other type. He has .7 and .7 so that should be around 1 or 1.1 essense total loss.
#2. Geisha you might want to list that your predator gets smartlink for free in your gear list and choose what and how your carrying stuff.
#3. is more for Sparky and Vegas. Somebody loped off the bottom of his mechanics page. (wasnt me hehe).
#4. Oh and to whom i may concern. He has all those stun weapons and I dont know the official damage values for that stuff i guess. I think they changed between the book and the SR4 Errata or something especially SnS ammo. I filled in the book values anyway. So if anyone knows the official numbers they can correct that stuff.
Man Adamu/Grack makes me feel so lazy. While i was filling in my take of Nova I realised I could have related everybody to sim characters or something. I am constantly flip flopping on Fool personality though between crazy about sims to just a fairly selfish almost evil guy. So thanks Adamu!! |
@Abbadon
#1. I have Sensitive System. So essence cost should be right. (0.7 x 2) + (0.7 / 2) = 1.75 essence cost.
#2. Oh, I do have to do that? I thought it was just automatic (I know it has Smartlink installed as basic option). And since war was going on, my character should carry all the item on the gear list on him.
#4. OMG, there's change in damage? I didn't know that. I'll check errata right now.
Critias
Jun 23 2007, 07:32 AM
Check errata 1.5 (click the link at the top of the srrpg page, not the errata link at the side, the link at the side of the page lists 1.3 as the most recent). I just heard about some damage changes yesterday, myself!
Geisha
Jun 23 2007, 07:48 AM
@Abbadon
I can't see any changes of damage for the shock weapons. Am I not reading it right? Could you point it out for me, if you have chance?
Geisha
Jun 23 2007, 07:54 AM
@everyone
BTW, I do have question about the SnS rounds. If I fire SnS rounds from Predator IV, does AP gets -half only from the ammo or do I get -1 too which is from the weapon itself? And if it does, does -1 AP comes before or after -half AP of SnS ammo?
Abbandon
Jun 23 2007, 10:44 AM
The specific ammo overrides any - ap's the gun itself may cause. Doesnt matter if you shoot your SnS out of a Hammerli light pistol or a panther XXL assault cannon. The AP = half impact armor + electrical resistance mods.
hmm I was going by what i had seen other people talking about but I dont see anything about a change to SnS either and I was looking at the errata v1.5 pdf. They just covered X,XX,flechette, and gel.
Vegas
Jun 23 2007, 03:44 PM
QUOTE (Abbandon) |
@Geisha/Nova , Sparky, and Vegas
Couple of things i saw when looking his character over...
[ Spoiler ] #1. Didnt pay for his cyber with essense. You pay full amount for whatever you have the most of and then half off the other type. He has .7 and .7 so that should be around 1 or 1.1 essense total loss.
#2. Geisha you might want to list that your predator gets smartlink for free in your gear list and choose what and how your carrying stuff.
#3. is more for Sparky and Vegas. Somebody loped off the bottom of his mechanics page. (wasnt me hehe).
#4. Oh and to whom i may concern. He has all those stun weapons and I dont know the official damage values for that stuff i guess. I think they changed between the book and the SR4 Errata or something especially SnS ammo. I filled in the book values anyway. So if anyone knows the official numbers they can correct that stuff.
Man Adamu/Grack makes me feel so lazy. While i was filling in my take of Nova I realised I could have related everybody to sim characters or something. I am constantly flip flopping on Fool personality though between crazy about sims to just a fairly selfish almost evil guy. So thanks Adamu!! |
Abbandon...
1) Yes he did pay for his Cyber, I just forgot to enter it while putting up his sheet.
2) I also was waiting on him to tell me what gear he was carrying (It's all of it) again, haven't had time to put it up yet.
3) Templates do not like things with HR lines in them. everything after them gets lost. I realized this earlier but did not go back to correct mechanics until his character was approved, in case there were changes to be made, saves doing things multiple times
Thanks for looking him over though!
Vegas
Jun 23 2007, 03:45 PM
QUOTE (Geisha) |
#2. Oh, I do have to do that? I thought it was just automatic (I know it has Smartlink installed as basic option). And since war was going on, my character should carry all the item on the gear list on him. |
I'll fix your carried gear list Geisha, but which rounds do you have loaded in your Predator and which are carried? (I'm assuming you're carrying all 60 rounds in clips or clip in a gun)
Vegas
Jun 23 2007, 04:21 PM
Konsaki
Nova should be good to go with clarifications and corrections. Only thing still waiting on is the question to what rounds he has in his gun at game start.
Geisha
Jun 23 2007, 04:52 PM
@Abbadon
QUOTE (Abbandon) |
The specific ammo overrides any - ap's the gun itself may cause. Doesnt matter if you shoot your SnS out of a Hammerli light pistol or a panther XXL assault cannon. The AP = half impact armor + electrical resistance mods.
hmm I was going by what i had seen other people talking about but I dont see anything about a change to SnS either and I was looking at the errata v1.5 pdf. They just covered X,XX,flechette, and gel. |
I don't think it does overrides any -ap's the gun has, but adds to it.
QUOTE (Ammunition @ P. 312) |
The ammunition's Damage Modifier and AP Modifier are added to the weapon's usual DV and AP. For example, an Ares Predator IV (DV 5, AP -1) with APDS (AP -4) would have a modified Damage Code of DV 5, AP -5
|
Also Stick-n-Shock part states
QUOTE (Stick-n-Shock @ P. 313) |
the Stick-n-Shock replaces the weapon's Damage Value with its own.
|
But it does not say it replaces the AP modifiers of the weapon anywhere.
I just wanted to understand it clear so I won't cause trouble when we're in the fire fight.
Geisha
Jun 23 2007, 05:36 PM
@Vegas
Oh, I forgot to mention that I have SnS rounds loaded. Once I knock down the Raiders, I'll put another breating hole in the head, if I survived to stand after fight.
I'm bothering you again, but this is the roll I got for the
starting credit
Meriss
Jun 23 2007, 06:55 PM
@Geisha: Hoi chummer. Welcome aboard
@Vegas: Gremlined his starting cash roll
Abbandon
Jun 23 2007, 09:32 PM
Well i was just guessing about the AP mods. To me SnS is not designed to penetrate into a guys body and then shock him hehe. Could be though. SnS has launched one recent and apparently some in the past conversations over on the sr4 board. Thats where I got that incorrect info of a damage change to SnS.
yoippari
Jun 23 2007, 10:45 PM
There are discussions going on about the ap modifying thing on the board. Right now both versions work though the specific examples (shotguns) support the replacement, not additional, mechanic.
Unarmed
Jun 24 2007, 04:35 AM
@ Grendel
I hope I'm not stepping on toes by having legion standing outside Plastic Sushi. If Legion is actually somewhere else please let me know and I will edit.
WinterRat1
Jun 24 2007, 06:38 AM
Probably no replies from me until Sunday or Monday, just fyi.
And someone else just made it onto my 'PCs with a very short life expectancy' list. I hate Stick and Shock ammo. I hate PCs who use it even more.
Geisha
Jun 24 2007, 06:46 AM
@WinterRat1
NOooo... Question: Why?
rob
Jun 24 2007, 07:15 AM
@All - Some notes from communication discussions with WR available on the Wiki, linked off House Rules (main page). I'm not gonna link them off the main page till they get more developed, but they shouldn't be hard to find.
@Geisha - my (useless) two cents as to why a rational person would hate stick and shock ammo: it don't make no sense. A 5.56mm (for example) rifle round (that weighs about 5 grams) flying at 1500 miles per hour will stick to the target and shock them with the same power as an 11.25 mm (.45 caliber) heavy pistol round (that weighs about 15 grams) flying about 600 miles per hour; and neither will cause any impact damage? nope. No dice. There's a reason they put tasers in the rulebook, and Stick-n-shock sure ain't helpin' it.
But I'm repeatedly cautioned to learn to suspend disbelief, so take or (probably) leave my two cents.
Geisha
Jun 24 2007, 08:54 AM
@rob
No, it's not useless two cents. My perception of SnS is not a round though... Well, it fires from the gun or rifle so it is round of sort, but it does not have (and shouldn't be) regular ammunition head. I was thinking more of 'tag' (therefore it is not for the penetration but to 'stick') of sort with charges to shock people. And also I was thinking the DV of shock weapon includes the damage from the impact. But that was my perception.
Meriss
Jun 24 2007, 05:08 PM
On SnS
I have two theorys on SnS.
1. Similar to a taser dart. but this means that the round is substantially larger than normal. And prolly wouldn't fit in anything smaller than a shotgun.
2. An electrically conductive gel. Think Gel rounds but put a small capacitor and copper dust in the gel. Hence stick n' shock. Prolly wouln't get much juice out of this thou.
Konsaki
Jun 25 2007, 11:32 AM
@AdamuBreaking the Fourth Wall, eh?
Konsaki
Jun 25 2007, 11:35 AM
NOTICE
My work is keeping me extreemly busy and I can only guess that it's going to last for a couple weeks. As such, my ability to post is going to be few and far, but I'll try to get stuff up when I can.
adamu
Jun 25 2007, 01:34 PM
QUOTE (Konsaki) |
@Adamu
Breaking the Fourth Wall, eh? |
Well, you know as well as anyone that I usually don't, but there is actually a justification (and nothing weird like that cool game Hyzmarca is starting).
That's all I will say for now, though I suppose as a GM you have the power to wring it out of me by PM, but that would ruin all the fun....
Konsaki
Jun 25 2007, 02:00 PM
QUOTE (adamu) |
QUOTE (Konsaki @ Jun 25 2007, 06:32 AM) | @Adamu
Breaking the Fourth Wall, eh? |
Well, you know as well as anyone that I usually don't, but there is actually a justification (and nothing weird like that cool game Hyzmarca is starting).
That's all I will say for now, though I suppose as a GM you have the power to wring it out of me by PM, but that would ruin all the fun....
|
I already have my ideas of who the 3rd 'person' is that is writing the passage. I wont ruin it by throwing out my guess here though.
Abbandon
Jun 25 2007, 03:14 PM
I posted this back on the 20th.
Konsaki or
WR1[ Spoiler ]
Ok Fool's intent: He will move east or west to find an opening to the north and back onto the 132nd street and then head for Child's location which I believe is one block up from the 132nd + 124th Ave NE intersection. He should know where an opening is behind him to the west so if its a long ways off he will go east.
Comm chatter back at child in case you post this next IC:
"Roger roger, I will make my way towards your position. Keep your comm on. If you dont see or hear from me in roughly 10 minutes forget about me and just look after yourself."
Konsaki
Jun 25 2007, 11:58 PM
@Trojan[ Spoiler ]
Trojan suffered 3p from that shot. 0s from the fall.
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