@Squirreldude
Thanks for the honesty, I had not realized that (and thought of the subduing rules)
In that case I'll just ignore the dice throw and go full defense to enter the flat

Full Defense: 25d6t5 7 (Agile Defender)

@Volker
There is a Parkour maneuver called rolling cloud that allows you to fall better and reduce damage by one DV, otherwise no, except for the glider armor with parachute in Street Lethal.

@Luckace

Yeah, technically spirit powers aren't affected by astral wards - which is stupid in my opinion. But them's the breaks. What is affected though is perception on the astral. But as we established, materialized spirits can see and hear just fine, so it isn't affected by blind fire penalties.

That brings us to the Guardian Spirit: It dematerializes and appears upstairs next to the mist and gilga's spirit.


Defense: 16d6t5 4
Spending his second point of edge for rerolls:
Defense reroll: 12d6t5 4
Evades spirit attack.

Mage: 34 (goes to mist form - declares full defense)
Anna: 30 (shoots to disarm, commands spirit)
Battery: 29 (His Kamikaze just kicked in, lowering his wound mods to 1) (Kills Undiel - loses shield)
bnc: 27 (charges through door into corridor)
Assault: 26 (goes full defense and enters flat using his complex action to retrieve a backup weapon)
Aeraziel Spirit Team 25 (Attacks battery)
Anna's Spirit: 23 (Attacks Mage)
Guardian Spirit OP-Force (in Flat): 23 (Dematerializes and moves to assist mage)
Nova: 22
Bound Spirit OP-Force (Astral): 21
Sharkboy: 20
Wraith: 13

Sharkboy to 15 after the interrupt attack and Assault should be down to 1? -10 for turn -15 for full defense?

Full defense only is -10 to ini and the -10 will affect him after his turn is over, but yeah, I'll amend that

Mage: 34 (goes to mist form - declares full defense)
Anna: 30 (shoots to disarm, commands spirit)
Battery: 29 (His Kamikaze just kicked in, lowering his wound mods to 1) (Kills Undiel - loses shield)
bnc: 27 (charges through door into corridor)
Assault: 26 (goes full defense and enters flat using his complex action to retrieve a backup weapon)
Aeraziel Spirit Team 25 (Attacks battery)
Anna's Spirit: 23 (Attacks Mage)
Guardian Spirit OP-Force (in Flat): 23 (Dematerializes and moves to assist mage)
Nova: 22
Bound Spirit OP-Force (Astral): 21
Sharkboy: 15
Wraith: 13

Alright, new try to do something about Battery, I guess.

EDIT: ... or not.

Bye
Thanee

Full Defense should reduce the mage to 24

For next round Initiative 20.
Stunbolt F6.
Stunbolt: 13d6t5 6
drain Vs 3: 15d6t5 5

Need to resist the spell with willpower, damage 1 stun per net hit.

Would you think that the gun can be effective now? I think he still got very high soak.

As mentioned, I'll adjust all Full Defenses in the next ini phase.
He still had his ini action at 34 first (going in mist form) before using the interrupt to go full defense

Mage: 34 (goes to mist form - declares full defense)
Anna: 30 (shoots to disarm, commands spirit)
Battery: 29 (His Kamikaze just kicked in, lowering his wound mods to 1) (Kills Undiel - loses shield)
bnc: 27 (charges through door into corridor)
Assault: 26 (goes full defense and enters flat using his complex action to retrieve a backup weapon)
Aeraziel Spirit Team 25 (Attacks battery)
Anna's Spirit: 23 (Attacks Mage)
Guardian Spirit OP-Force (With Mage): 23 (Dematerializes and moves to assist mage)
Nova: 22 (Shoots Battery)
Bound Spirit OP-Force (Astral): 21 (Attacks) Aeraziel)
Sharkboy: 15 (Punches Battery)
Wraith: 13

Next round


Anna: 20 (Stun Bolt at Battery)
Battery: 19
bnc: 17
Aeraziel Spirit Team 15
Mage: 14
Anna's Spirit: 13
Guardian Spirit OP-Force (with Mage): 13
Nova: 12
Bound Spirit OP-Force (Astral): 11
Assault: 6
Sharkboy: 5
Wraith: 3

I think, Assault slipped your attention, didn't he? Should be 16

Nope, as you can see in the next phase table, he is down to 6

aaah

Anna: 20 (Stun Bolt at Battery)
Battery: 19 (Strikes Spirit)
bnc: 17
Aeraziel Spirit Team 15
Mage: 14
Anna's Spirit: 13
Guardian Spirit OP-Force (with Mage): 13
Nova: 12
Bound Spirit OP-Force (Astral): 11
Assault: 6
Sharkboy: 5
Wraith: 3

Soak: 6d6t5 3

Battery takes 3S for a full 11 Stun Track
Autoinjector activates Stim 6

Compex action: Battery strikes Aerziel: Strike Spirit: 18d6t5 9
Spirit defense: 16d6t5 5
Soak: 4d6t5 2
Spirit disrupted
Moves into flat, blocking entrance

What what?! Please explain what just happened?

Why wouldn't the spirit go full defense or something?

Oh, Stim Patches actually remove stun damage again... In SR4A they only gave you "High Pain Tolerance".

That's quite handy. Nova should get herself a few of those, too, just in case.

Bye
Thanee

Because it would have lost the ability to counter attack? But just for the sake of argument: Full Defense: 6d6t5 1, the spirit would have been still disrupted.

As for what happened: You filled the merc's stun track, which triggered the bio-monitor wired to an autoinjector to release a dose of Stim into the mercenary.

About the spirit: Or perhaps Wraith wanted to use edge, to keep us from losing yet another spirit? You seem to be overly eager about its demise.

So he lost consciousness, the biomonitor discovered it so quickly and the response happened so quickly - and then the drugs affected his body so quickly that he did not even lose his action, or collapse to the ground or something? This seems like a legitimate interpretation of the rules to you?!

When every other healing attempt is measured in combat turns which makes it ineffective in a middle of combat. Now I am not going to argue about that, because this entire combat feels like one rule lawyering after another.

I am going to say that there seem to be another issue here, you seem to use every trick in the book, every rule abuse to make it hard on us. I admit that this level of sophistication makes it much less fun for me and that I feel like the aftereffects are bad for us. When we'll be pressured toward high firepower (how much higher can you go from a sniper rifle with ADPS? which is not effective).

This kind of things makes this entire scene frustrating. Knowing that you'll use your mastery of the rules to undo anything we do accomplish. Or that the opponents will just edge it if we actually get a good strike. I don't like this level of sophistication like the auto injector-biomonitor steam - and your interpretation of how well they interact with one another.


Or even the shield walk that seems to me like it is much more powerful than any other maneuver in the small unit tactics. Coupled with a shield which is much stronger than any other shield.
Let's have these things in mind and make a discussion about the kind of game we want to play. Previous high-level opponents were not that sophisticated. I do not want to play a game of who read all the books and found the best exploit of the rules. In fact, I'd rather avoid an arms race with the GM. It seems strange to me that should we make it out alive, the next thing should be to go shop autoinjectors with stim patches and a better armor.

You are facing opposition, real opposition this time. They are prepared and they are trained to deal with a situation like this. You are dealing with agents of a megacorp that can spend incredible amounts of resources to get what it wants. This is both part of the story I want to tell, as well as a chance for the team to grow into a more cohesive unit.

A few of the things I'm using here, are experimental for me since they are from the most recent books - when else am I going to see how well they work? Beside that, you found counters to them - using cold damage to get rid of the shield hadn't occured to me and is quite valuable data both for me and for you. The reward for that would have been the equipment they lost and for you the ability to replicate those tactics (SUT aren't new, they exist since R&G and yet I see very few people using them. It seems to me that demonstrating their use is the best way to make them more popular and add an interesting element to the game)

By the way: I already gave you a hint about the autoinjector method IP. You found the Lazarus Combo in the Vienna safehouse, but never wondered how it got there or where it came from.

That said:
This fight is meant to be hard - but it's not like you are losing. The mage is on the run and with him his bobyguard spirit. The two mercs have lost their primary means of attack and defense and are also retreating now that there boss has gone. Likewise, your Stunbolt was very effective. Battery now runs on borrowed time.
And if you wanted to end the fight now, you'd have the opportunity. Just reread this post http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...t&p=1342748 and this post http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...t&p=1342883

Edit:
Besides all that: This fight was entirely optional. No-one forced you into this confrontation.

I think you are overly generous with the ability of a biomonitor to detect and apply the treatment, and for the drugs to affect him so quickly. He basically did not notice that he went unconscious, did not lose his balance, and even completed a melee attack as if nothing had happened. I'd imagine having dropping like a rock and rise from the dead after a round or two as very powerful (and problematic). Though, what you are suggesting making me think if there is a tactical advantage in continuing to bash the man.

Of course, our characters know nothing so we'll continue.

The Shield smashing is your doing, not us - Battery was so armored that you had him strike an aura spirit and he ignored all the damage from it. The spirit was unlikely to ever touch him - with the kind of defense he rolls. Which makes me think if I should even try to attack him with my meager pistol (and James/bnc). Even if we fill his stun again, he'll just reawaken again, so yes bad for him in the long term... but is there any tactical advantage to continuing?


#OOC - Yes it is not clear to me why we are fighting these guys, to begin with. Though, if you placed say ten (even ordinary) guards - we would have been much more careful. I think that some of the charging is due to the fact that we seemed to have more of everything. More mages, more combatants and so forth. Water under the bridge

For me, Anna just hopped off the scaling after Sharkboy not wanting to miss out on the fun, and not wanting to let him go fight a mage without magical protection. I did not feel like we gave this combat much thought but it did not appear half the menace that it really is.

To be fair, though, with average rolls, I would do damage to him with every shot (not a whole lot, because he is super-maxed-out on just about everything, it seems, but he would be down by now). It was just that luck was a bit in his favor here.

What I mostly dislike about Battery is, that this shield gives zero hindrance for dodging attacks. That just seems completely wrong. This thing must be heavy and unwieldy. But it isn't. At all. It's how the rules work, no argument here, just weird (kinda like that end-of-the-round suddenly no interrupts are possible thing).

One more thing, which I think is wrong. Battery just retreated into the flat. He simply should not do such a thing. He is on Kamikaze right now. He has no survival instinct whatsoever, anymore, and feels invincible and everything (which is, pretty much, the description of Kamikaze). He should act like that and not like a carefully planning professional currently.

Just one of those little things about him, that make him feel completely "gamey" and not like an actual person.

Bye
Thanee

Ingame, however, I think we have to re-negotiate with Nacl. With this level of opposition, there should be one more "0" behind our paychecks.

Bye
Thanee

IC I would agree, but at least bnc (and to a degree Anna) are in a very weak negotiation position. bnc probably wants her sister rescued regardless of the pay. Anna is doing it mainly to support her, and would likely not ditch the job because 'it is not worth the pay'.

The shield is unwieldy - you need STR 9 to use it without any penalty to your agility. Battery has STR 7 (now 9 with Kamikaze) and suffered one point penalty.

As for Kamikaze: RAW there is no compulsion to act like that - unlike Kali. Battery has drilled maneuvers with his partner for quite a while and acts without thinking.
But if you all think it should have, I'm all to glad to implement that as a rule change and add the Berserker negative trait to it like a Shark or a Bear shaman has.
In that case him taking a step back is only the precursor to a charge attack.

@gilga
Biomonitors are that powerful: They do track how much damage you have taken and combined with an auto injector can immediately apply a drug when a preprogrammed event takes place. That's RAW and it applies to your characters just as it applies to your foes. You all didn't mind that bnc could fix a severed artery during a fight either.

I build Assault and Battery as Prime Runners - a three man runner group (the hacker is the third - called Jaywalker) with a very specific skill set, namely acting as highpowered bodyguards for a very important, powerful ritualist mage.
Complaining about them being overpowered is akin to attacking Damien Knight and complaining that he is protected by an army.

Just read the Kamikaze description and it surely feels a bit wrong to act defensively while under its effect, don't you think?

It's more a fluff/roleplaying thing, I guess, as there is no hard rule.



Them being powerful is fine (to me, anyways). It's not like we are completely outmatched or anything. We are still doing pretty well, despite somewhat bad luck with the rolls.

Bye
Thanee

Nope. Spirits don't have edge (CRB 304). Wraith could, however, spend edge in its stead.

regarding the stimpatch:
I might be wrong, as I was a hundred times before, but then, considering how often we argued about something, there surely was about a dozen time where I was right, so...
I assume that you treat a stimpatch as a drug with Speed Immediate (technically it's not even a drug or chemical which would disallow to use it in a auto-injector but I guess we all agree that it makes sense to see it as a drug with Speed Immediate).
Still, "Immediate means the effect is applied at the end of the same Combat Turn in which the victim is exposed" (CRB 408). Since Anna took Battery out in phase 20, he is out for the rest of the combat. There's no room for interpretation in this regard, it's clearly defined that there is no chemical in the whole Shadowrun world that works faster than "end of the combat round".

Just out of interest, though:

I couldn't find any reference that biomonitors can truck boxes of damage nor how fast they react. I guess it would react pretty fast but vital signals do need some time to drop after damage has been dealt to a body. I'm talking split-seconds not seconds, but still all the vitals a biomonitor can track (heart rate, blood pressure, temperature, ...) do need some time to drop after something impacts a body, as far as I can tell. But I'm not arguing here, just interested in the source of your RAW info.
Ah, and just to be fair: You must admit, however, that fixing the artery did take several combat rounds in which I was unable to do anything else. That doesn't necessarily make it more realistic, though ^^ it was definitely the most romantic event in my whole SR career, however

Anyway, I think that it's okay to face real opposition. So far, most of our opponents were just beyond average. We are quite advanced. Two of us have received about a million of nuyen to spend, and Jack was quite generous in how we were allowed to spend it. I can remember, for example, that he granted you, gilga, to convert the money into karma although there is no rule that would allow you to do so. This was a huge jump in your character's career he just gave you as a present. In my case, he helped me quite patiently (note quite patiently, but with angelic patience) to optimize James, sometimes answering four to five pms a day. So I guess it's fair that we bite a bit of granite here. We're not playing Disney fairytales but Shadowrun here. Even so and with a bit of bad luck, we are winning and have by far not exhausted our possibilities. So far, none of us even got harmed as far as I can tell.

I would agree that there's some ground to discuss the "rule knowledge race with our GM mastermind". I sometimes felt the same - when NPCs can do things I haven't even known there exist, e.g. Or when rules are interpreted in a way that feel very contraintuitive to me. This is one thing. But I don't think we should whine about overpowered NPCs. We're quite overpowered ourselves and I'd rather play SR challenging than boring.
Besides: We were idiots, and deserve a punch in the face.

About the power level, I feel that it puts pressure on over-optimizing for combat, and I don't like it.
I think that I'd like the shield walk to not increase defense, as it seems broken to me. (and they did not even use full defense on top of that...). Getting +10 armor (or even +6) seems like enough of a bonus for a free action.

About the autoinjector stim patch combo - again it seems to work WAY too fast. No other form of healing works instantly. E.g., heal spell and medic kit heal 1 box per combat turn. Bnc needed multiple combat rounds to work on the artery. She did not do it in a single pass, and then shot - and dodged in the same combat round. Schmidt did not just instantly recovered without the damage having any mechanical effect. So it is not the same thing, (and yes both are not realistic), but instant healing in response to being knocked out just takes the edge out of being knocked out. I don't want to exploit it - I don't want it to exist.

Is there a point of attacking Battery? (sure he might die after the combat from an overdose of drugs) but can we do anything to actually incapacitate him while in combat? With a pain editor (which is VERY powerful) in comparison, the extra stun is converted to physical. So if we keep hitting him, he'll fall down eventually. (providing we survive long enough to do so). Now whenever his monitor is filled he'll be healed. (until he runs out of stim patches?!) Is it necessary to make the point of them being highly trained? Would the combat be 'easy' if stun damage can incapacitate a person?

Because to me, it seems like your design has left no way to actually incapacitate Battery (and perhaps Assult has a similar shtick). Their armor is too thick for physical damage, and stun does not seem to affect them while in combat. Perhaps spells could be used - but Anna does not know anything like it. It is a bit frustrating to me that we fight a combat where the opponents cannot be incapacitated while we fight the combat.

Or am I missing something? Because to me, the implications are that the opposition can simply ignore our damage, (and we cannot ignore their damage). Is there a way to win? It seems to me that all we CAN do is have them apply more steam patches. (are there any restrictions on how many times he can repeat it? ) Now all the problems I see would have been solved if the healing was not instant.

For example, we'll be surprised at their miraculous recovery the first time we incapacitate them, but the second time we can make sure they don't revive again. The problem is that the healing is instant - and Battery is not helpless even for a brief moment.

Hmm... That is a good point, actually.

I just re-read the part about drugs and they use the same rules as toxins, so "immediate" really means end of combat turn.

Also something to keep in mind when using drugs like Jazz.

Bye
Thanee

Gee, quite a lot of stuf to answer, so excuse me if I miss something:

@Stim
It's not a conventional drug described in the drug chapter, but part of the equpipment list of medical supplies like the Trauma patch. It's true that it normally should only be available via patch - it's a house rule on my part to allow any kind of drug to be applied via injection. I'm basing my interpretation of injectable Stim on Crash from Bullets&Bandages. Crash is the injectable form of the trauma patch. For obvious reasons this has to work immediately to prevent someone from dying through overflow damage. So both patches are exempt from the "have to wait til the end of the round" rule of other drugs.
As for it's weaknesses: Using more Stim has diminishing returns. And you already know what the Lazarus Combo contains: One dose of Stim. That's it.

@Biomonitor
The Pain Editor explains that a biomonitor is needed to inform a user about the extend of damage he has received. Likewise the Defiance Ex Shocker has as it's wireless function the ability to inform you about the target's basic health and Condition Monitor (just by sending to darts into you). I extrapolate from that, that biomonitors do tell you exactly how much you've been hurt.
And I'm not counting the argument that it needs time to register things like dropping blood pressure: Humans also need time to register that they have been hurt and don't necessarily collapse immediately. It's abstracted rules were the biomonitor holds an action in the event of major trauma.
Looking at the Ini table both Anna and Battery acted almost in the same instant. If we start to disect how much reaction time each and every piece of equipment should have, the whole system will come crashing down.

@Kamikaze
"Kamikaze users are near-crazed, filled with a feeling of imperviousness and invincibility, exhibiting almost no regard for their own well-being."
I don't think that that implies Battery has to blindly attack - especially not considering that isn't running, but blocking you from attacking Assault. Instead he is still stemming the tide against four attackers.
Compare this to K-10, which does have the Berserk effect:
"Users of this dangerous combat drug automatically go berserk when wounded, in a manner similar to Bear magicians. [...]In the years since, it’s become an infamous source of obituary-linked headlines, from psychotic gang rampages to civilian massacres in distant countries by mercenary troops who have “Tasted the Blood.”"

@Attacking Battery
It certainly makes sense. His defense is down without the shield, his armor is reduced to 6+16 dice and despite everything else Battery has not gone full defense.
If your combat morale has taken a hit by seeing him shrug off your attack, his tactic succeeded.

@power level
All things considered it's me who has operated under lower power level so far. Using those toys has merely leveled the playing field somewhat, preventing you from steamrolling your opposition. And even that didn't prevent that Sharkboy neutered their offence in the first round through a close combat disarm (still a brillant move which I honored by not questioning if a sling would impede the desired result)
As I said before: This fight was optional. Even if it was too hard, there is nothing stopping you from retreating.
You don't have to upgrade your gear, you already have all necessary parts to take them down.

If I had wanted to present you with an impossible fight I'd just have taken 15 mooks with Ingrams, performance enhancing drugs and an itchy trigger finger (which by the way you still might face if you cross a mob of Crusaders)

i have no clue what you're talking about. B&B explicitly states "When using Care Under Fire, the application of a trauma
patch or administration of the drug crash (see New
Drugs, Toxins, and Pathogens, p. 19) allows an injured
character to make a Stabilization Test using their Body
attribute at the end of each Combat Turn."

I don't know how the rules could be any clearer about trauma patches working at the end of the turn.


I'd agree in every other point but considering how seldom we get a single clear rule, you can't simply ignore two explicit wordings because it would make your combo impossible. I also don't understand what these obvious reasons would be.

The stabilization test occurs at the end of the round, but the effect of the drug has to occur before that, otherwise getting overflow at the end of the round couldn't be halted.

I'm refering to this part:
"In addition, Stabilization Tests can be used to negate the effects of Wound Modifiers, described below. This represents use of pain medications and stimulating combat drugs to get the injured character back on his feet and into the fight. To stabilize an injured runner, the character rendering aid must succeed on a First Aid + Logic (variable, Complex Action) Extended Test."

That shows that with only one complex action you can get someone back into fighting condition, thanks to the drugs working immediately. In my interpretation that's the one (held) complex action the biomonitor+autoinjector performs to apply the stim.

Why not? En contraire, there is no other time except for the end of the round where the drug can work because before the end of the round, there is no overflow that can be halted.

Forgive me saying so, but this is plain ridiculous. You cannot ignore two passages that distinctly and explicitly state that all drugs (the one we're talking about given as a specific example) only work at the end of the round because there is one special rule in a sub rulebook the fluff text of which seems to imply that drugs and stimulants don't work according to the explicit rules. If anything, the only thing you could derive is that the effects of the Stabilize action only work at the end of the round (which is, by the way, not defined).
Sorry, it's not even a question of realism (and yes, your interpretation is unrealistic), there's just no room for interpretation in the rules in this regard.

@Jack but with the instant healing you describe, lets say we fill Battery's stun again - won't he be saved by the bio monitor again? (and again, and again...?) Which is why I question if there is any way to disable the man by causing stun damage (in the combat time). Note that stun has no overflow - so he just need to heal 1 stun to keep going.


Now if we are debating the rules...

To be fair the passages Jack cite are not in conflict with what Volker said.
Though, I think that that passage does not imply what Jack suggests.

Applying pain medication is an extended test with complex action threshold so you can apply medication within complex action.
It still does not mean that the effect of the medication happens before the end of the turn. (it does not says when the effect happens). For comparison, a healing spell is a complex action, yet healing takes effect at the end of the combat turn. (and even then, 1 box per turn) I think that applying a medic kit is also a single complex action - yet the effect is only at the end of the combat turn. (and even then, 1 box per turn).

In the autoinjector case, you do not even need a complex action to apply medication. It is a free action (or even no action) if you have a bio-monitor -(that has 0 response time). However, just because you applied treatment very quickly (my image is injecting morphine) does not mean that the drugs take effect as quickly.
A paracetamol is a complex action to take - yet takes about 30 minutes to work my headache. Each drug has a different duration all detailed within the rules, and the fastest duration in SR seems to be the end of the combat turn.

Not sure where you got that from, but I am pretty sure that is not how it works with healing spells.

AFAIK, you cast the spell and immediately (actual immediately) remove the damage.

You have to sustain the spell (and if you drop it, the damage comes back, also immediately).

Once you sustained the spell for (Force) combat turns, the healing becomes permanent and no further sustaining is necessary.

Bye
Thanee

Oh wow, did not know that. (perhaps not the best example then) though, somehow I never played it like that with heal.

Guys, I'm no longer in the mood for this. I'm spending my limited evening time discussing with you about something that is neither worth it, nor generating goodwill. You seem to feel that I'm treating you unfair and the game suffers for this as seen by the no posting in the IP threat.

In my SR world an autoinjector with a dose of stim works like the adrenaline gland bioware.

"Adrenaline pump: [...] you can trigger it as a Free Action. While the pump is active, you ignore injury modifiers and don’t fall unconscious, even if your Stun Condition Monitor is filled.[...]"

If you insist that no drug can work that fast, then I won't change your mind.
I say fine: Have it your way.

Edit incoming

Yes, well... Let's get playing again.

Who's turn is it anyway?

I think it is bnc's turn, I copied the last initiative from Jack - and moved Battery to 0 initiative. (As we already OOC know that he'll rise from the dead soon.

Anna: 20 (Stun Bolt at Battery)
bnc: 17
Aeraziel Spirit Team 15
Mage: 14
Anna's Spirit: 13
Guardian Spirit OP-Force (with Mage): 13
Nova: 12
Bound Spirit OP-Force (Astral): 11
Assault: 6
Sharkboy: 5
Wraith: 3
Battery: 0 (on the floor).

You know, every once in a while you could just admit that you, too, can be wrong. We all admire your knowledge and your intelligence but I think we all would feel a little bit more comfortable if you wouldn't act as if you were absolutely infallible. I cannot remember a single argument in which you let yourself be swayed by reasoning which I find frustrating. Of course, it's always the GM's call but I think everyone who has ever GMed knows that sometimes mistakes happen and it would be awesome if you could just admit these rare cases and don't force your opinion on us. I don't want to wake memories of bnc stupidly shooting at an armored van for no reason - I'm just saying that I as a player would feel more comfortable if I wouldn't have the feeling that I have to surrender to each and ever whim of my GM, especially if it creates absurd situations that should not happen IC.

And I did not post in the IC thread because the situation was unclear and you taught me quite memorably to never ever again submit a post until the situation is 100 % clarified.

EDIT: by the way, adrenaline is not a drug, especially if it's not inserted by an auto-inserter but produced by the body itself.

@all players

Please keep in mind that none of our characters have the least clue that this guy can (and will) raise. To us, it's a fallen enemy and never have given them much consideration. To eliminate Battery now or take specific precaucious steps would be a strong IC/OoC interference and very bad roleplay. The lazarus combo should still be a powerful combination and should give Battery the possibility to surprise us or even get in our backs.

Yes, well I am not sure that Jack did us a favor... but we'll see

I think it shouldn't be about doing us a favor. It just should be right.

Yeah, this actually puts me in a bit of a weird situation right now.

My plan is and was for quite a while already, to have Nova put a bullet through his head from point blank, the moment he goes down (just to be sure). She is a little vengeful after all.

At this point, it just seems a little "oh, he will be back up soon... make sure that does not happen."

Bye
Thanee

I freely admit that I can and am wrong quite often. But there is no objective truth about how to handle Stim. We both are looking at different parts of the rules to extrapolate what Stim does, because the RAW neglects to so. I relinquished my GM prerogative to decide which interpretation we use to accomodate you all, but that's the extend of my patience in this regard.
I explained at every junction why I do what I do, revealing information that you actually had no need or right to receive. I did that because I thought it benefited everyone to gain more insight in the rules compared to the benefit of keeping the pacing and tension of the story high. Now it seems I could have saved me some energy since you obviously did either not read or follow my explanations.
Also, I bent the rules quite a few times in your favor and yet you still seem to think I'm owing you something for the pleasure to GM a story tailored for you.

Having to juggle my world building, balancing encounters and keeping the story on track is not helped by the fact that I do have less time to post due to a job change. This added stress is not what I want to spend my precious free time on.

In short: That's it. The game is on hold until further notice.

If someone else wants to step in as GM, feel free to do so, I'll share my notes.


Answer to your edit: by the way, adrenaline is the original trademarked name for the drug by Parke, Davis & Co used as medication for a variety of conditions - as I'm sure you already knew, considering it's part of emergency doctors' kit.

Please, don't mix together different things, the storyline and the rule thing. I very much appreciate your storylines and gametelling, and I repeatedly said so.
Also, it wasn't me who brought up this debate, I just provided the rules which mention both the specific drug and the specific rule we were arguing about. But if you really are so sensitive about that, I will solemnly vow that I will never again question you. I will start with your decision and wait for you to find the time and will to carry on without any remark or question.

Emotions seem to run high.
No offense intended.

I meant to share that I am a bit frustrated with the combat, but alas with it. I am sorry to hear about your decision, it was really fun to play with you.


By the way, most of the progress in the combat was tactical mistakes. The two prime runners could avoid the spirits, and Anna's magic (or force her to give up her augmentations) simply by stepping into the apartment. In that case, we needed to face the guardian spirit in addition to having no spirits of our own. (or the mage could leave with it) So the little progress we did made is purely by (what I feel) where tactical mistakes. (Striking aura spirit, astrally perceiving etc) This is why I think that the combat is so intense, and exactly how/when Battery recovers is just icing to the cake. Nullifying the little progress we did make by tossing everything we had on them.

It is striking me how we have such vastly different views on this issue.

I hope you come back after taking the time to destress, Jack.

It's one of the first combats that (because of some tactical blunders) it's felt like everything has been riding on some clutch dice rolls. We're 100% dead if I don't spike dice and knock the gun out of assault's hands (and that was by 1 success). That auto-shotty shreds us. The mercs clutched their resists fear rolls, Nova hasn't been able to land a clean hit on anything, and since that first disarm Sharkboy has been one or two successes away or totally whiffed every major attempt to swing combat.

We put ourselves in a position to lose, and we're losing.

Nah, we aren't. The fight is tough but exciting. The mage is fleeing, Battery is down, Assault exposed and so far we didn't even get a box of damage! We wouldn't play SR if we'd want to pet unicorns.

Nova has 6 boxes of stun damage (thanks to 0 hits on the Edge roll).

Anyways, I hope, when the waves have settled a bit, that we can find some common ground to continue here.

I must admit, that I can see Jack's point. Especially you, Volker, come across unnecessarily harsh at times, when discussing rules topics.

You really should consider your words a bit more carefully sometimes.

I don't think you mean any ill here at all, just to be sure, but it's not always about intent, but how it is received.

Bye
Thanee

Thanks for the feedback. I know that I can sound harsher than I intend sometimes. I grew up in a quite rural area as the offspring of honest yet somewhat, well, rural parents with two bigger brothers who didn't really help my mother who was trying to teach me manners nonetheless. This is not supposed to be an excuse, perhaps an explanation, but I guess not even that. I really do try hard to adapt the cautious, polite and "safe" way most people I know nowadays talk. Maybe luckace, who knows me personally, can confirm that struggle. But I have to admit that I have a hard time doing so as I was socialized in a completely different manner. Before I was 20, I knew nobody who communicated in the fashion. Since then, I'm trying to learn, but especially if emotions are involved, I'm still facing difficulties.

That said, I'm sorry if I insulted you (or someone else). This was never my intention. For me, this was a rule debate, and little more. I'm sorry if it felt different to you.

Alright, I had a week to calm down and decompress a bit.
I'll resume GMing when I get home tonight.

Meanwhile, don't feel pressured not to cap Battery if that is what your char would do.

I really mean what I wrote. It's not just a "some time has passed and now I'm cool enough to wrote sorry though I don't mean it." Maybe the first part is true, however...
If situations like these arise, I am welcome to feedback. I can not only deal, but also take.

As for Battery: bnc certainly wouldn't have thought about that. And to be earnest, no matter who we fought til now, none of our team ever has. Nova's new, of course, so that's up to Thanee.