Dumpshock Forums > Chummer Character Generator

Nebular

Apr 26 2012, 01:27 PM

QUOTE (ShadowWalker @ Apr 25 2012, 09:59 PM)

Well I can no longer reproduce the problem.
May be it was related to the weapon having been added before the changes to add grenade launchers to weapons that have them as a default.
But all seems to be working correctly now.

I was wondering though. Was there not a change a while back that added the ammo's location as part of the reload window?
I noticed while I was trying to reproduce this problem that my ammo wasn't showing it's location. Is it possible that this is because I have the ammo linked to spare clips?
Makes it easier for me to keep track of how many clips a character has, and how much ammo is in each one as the clips are swapped.

It does show the Location, just not if the Ammo is contained in something like a Spare Clip. I'll have this added in the next update. It will show both the container's name and Location (if it has one).

Nebular

Apr 26 2012, 01:30 PM

QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Apr 26 2012, 01:30 AM)

In making a new character I found something that I'd call an error in mechanics. The character was planned on having a holdout pistol in a hidden arm slide. Now I know that holdouts are listed in Arsenal as being unable to mount any accessories, but would it be possible to group a few non-mounted kind of accessories in another fashion? A quick-draw holster, concealable holster, and hidden arm slide are some that seem would be quite natural to use with holdout pistols.

I've updated the Weapons file so that all Holdouts can mount Accessories, provided they don't use an actual slot (so things like Holsters, Slides, etc. are now available to them).

SpellBinder

Apr 26 2012, 06:34 PM

Thanks a bunch.

ShadowWalker

Apr 26 2012, 07:09 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 26 2012, 09:27 AM)

It does show the Location, just not if the Ammo is contained in something like a Spare Clip. I'll have this added in the next update. It will show both the container's name and Location (if it has one).

Cool, thanks.

SpellBinder

Apr 26 2012, 07:13 PM

Oh, any chance to restore the ammo so you can buy less than 10 at character generation?

Nebular

Apr 27 2012, 02:06 AM

QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Apr 26 2012, 02:13 PM)

Oh, any chance to restore the ammo so you can buy less than 10 at character generation?

Yup! I'll have it in the next update. Probably put out the next one tomorrow before my game night. It'll be a small one, but a it'll have something new at least.

Vilda

Apr 27 2012, 03:27 PM

First: great work!

Second: I don't know if it was already reported, but during character creation, armor lists capacity correctly, but after purchasing it shows zero everywhere.

Nebular

Apr 27 2012, 03:31 PM

QUOTE (Vilda @ Apr 27 2012, 10:27 AM)

First: great work!

Second: I don't know if it was already reported, but during character creation, armor lists capacity correctly, but after purchasing it shows zero everywhere.

In order to actually put the Armor Capacity stuff to use, you need to turn on the Optional Rules for it. Go to the Tools menu and select Options. Click on the Optional Rules tab. Put a check next to Use Maximum Armor Modification (AR 44) and Use Armor Suit Capacity (AR 44). Click OK, close and re-open your character, and you should be set!

Vilda

Apr 27 2012, 03:41 PM

aaaah, got it. Somehow I've missed that in options, thanks.

SpellBinder

Apr 27 2012, 09:31 PM

A couple of new things I've found. One, the Targeting and Maneuver autosofts no longer asks for additional text when selecting them. Two, pressing the Delete key to remove a vehicle sensor (like a drone's installed camera) sometimes throws an error that can recurs when you try to delete something else (the same sensor, or something else), and when it does persist the character has to be reloaded to clear it. Sadly this is inconsistent.

And a thought for a little expanded functionality of the program, how about an option to directly reload a character sheet without closing and re-opening it?

Nebular

Apr 27 2012, 09:40 PM

QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Apr 27 2012, 03:31 PM)

A couple of new things I've found. One, the Targeting and Maneuver autosofts no longer asks for additional text when selecting them. Two, pressing the Delete key to remove a vehicle sensor (like a drone's installed camera) sometimes throws an error that can recurs when you try to delete something else (the same sensor, or something else), and when it does persist the character has to be reloaded to clear it. Sadly this is inconsistent.

And a thought for a little expanded functionality of the program, how about an option to directly reload a character sheet without closing and re-opening it?

Agh. The Targeting/Maneuver thing has to do with Improvements not actually being applied to Vehicles. There was a problem before where if you added something that typically gives a Character a bonus, like a Hot Sim, then the character would receive the +2 IP even though it's being added to the Vehicle, not the character. I'm going to have to think about this one. I can't seem to get that other bug to happen either. I'll keep an eye out for it.

In Career Mode at least, the character sheet automatically refreshes every time the character has a change. I'll add this for Create Mode as well.

Nebular

Apr 27 2012, 09:43 PM

Build 377

Ammo in a container such as a Spare Clip now shows its container's name and Location (if applicable) in the Reload window
added a Pets and Cohorts tab to the Street Gear section so that character can create links to any pets or other companions they might have
Gear such as Ammo that is typically sold in stacks of 10 can now be purchased at a quantity lower than its stack size (must enter the number manually
the up/down arrows increase/decrease by the stack size)

New Strings

Tab_Pets
Button_AddPet

ShadowWalker

Apr 27 2012, 10:38 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 27 2012, 05:40 PM)

Agh. The Targeting/Maneuver thing has to do with Improvements not actually being applied to Vehicles. There was a problem before where if you added something that typically gives a Character a bonus, like a Hot Sim, then the character would receive the +2 IP even though it's being added to the Vehicle, not the character. I'm going to have to think about this one. I can't seem to get that other bug to happen either. I'll keep an eye out for it.

In Career Mode at least, the character sheet automatically refreshes every time the character has a change. I'll add this for Create Mode as well.

Targeting and Maneuver should really have you select the skill instead of text. Targeting should be one of the weapon skills, including the melee ones.
Hmm after reading the description of Maneuver it says vehicle type, and then gives examples as ground vehicles and anthroform. So maybe that one should stay as free form text. Although I would probably do it as the pilot skills, or maybe as the items listed in the specializations of each of the piloting skills. May be have it as a drop down that includes the pilot skills specializations, but also allow for the ability to enter your own entry? The Targeting would need to include text entry as well, since it's possible the weapon being used is an exotic one. Just like the ability to select something from the list rather than have to type it in.

ShadowWalker

Apr 27 2012, 10:43 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 27 2012, 05:43 PM)

Build 377

Ammo in a container such as a Spare Clip now shows its container's name and Location (if applicable) in the Reload window
added a Pets and Cohorts tab to the Street Gear section so that character can create links to any pets or other companions they might have
Gear such as Ammo that is typically sold in stacks of 10 can now be purchased at a quantity lower than its stack size (must enter the number manually
the up/down arrows increase/decrease by the stack size)

New Strings

Tab_Pets
Button_AddPet

Going along with the ammo in a clip, would it be possible to be able to select the weapon instead of type it in? Clips are supposed to be weapon specific, and that's what the request for text is for, but it would be nice if it included suggestions in a drop down. Then when you reload it could include just the clips that are associated with that weapon.

As for vehicles, and characters, make vehicles a character, like critters, but with different types of stats. Would probably make the character sheet for them easier to do.

Mister Shed

Apr 28 2012, 02:33 AM

Upgraded to latest version, having a problem printing when a character has a pet/cohort entry. Tried it with several different characters, same error each time.

Error message:

[ Spoiler ]

Additional request: when printing, if a weapon has the additional clip mod, would it be possible to show the ammo info for both clip slots instead of just the 'active' one?

Thanks for all the work.

Nebular

Apr 28 2012, 09:56 PM

QUOTE (Mister Shed @ Apr 27 2012, 08:33 PM)

Upgraded to latest version, having a problem printing when a character has a pet/cohort entry. Tried it with several different characters, same error each time.

I've updated the language file to correct this. Just run the update, grab the new file, and you should be good!

Mister Shed

Apr 28 2012, 11:13 PM

Looks like that fixed it. Thanks!

SpellBinder

Apr 29 2012, 03:07 AM

Just found a conflict in the Options during character creation. If you're using a rule set that has "Characters can spend any number of points on Nuyen" enabled and you set the BP/Karma to 0 (zero) for the purpose of creating an open ended character, you then actually cannot spend any points at all on nuyen unless you also checked the "Ignore Character Creation Rules" box. On top of that, if you try to edit the character file to change the <nuyenbp> value, the character sheet errors out at loading.

This can be fixed by putting the <ignorerules>True</ignorerules> tag directly into the character sheet's code, and also seems to fix the load error if the <nuyenbp> value was changed.

CaptainHairy

Apr 29 2012, 06:50 PM

A couple of quick ones, if I could, centring around cyberlimbs.

Firstly, I think the display for the dice pool of a cyber-holdout is erroneously using the pistols skill, instead of the Exotic Ranged Weapon (Holdout Pistol) that it should.

Also, I wanted to ask if there was any way to set a skill or piece of equipment to only use the stats of an augmented limb when calculating its dice pool, other than just using custom improvements for everything? This especially makes sense when calculating the dice pools of cyberweapons that are literally impossible to wield with any other limb.

ShadowWalker

Apr 29 2012, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (CaptainHairy @ Apr 29 2012, 02:50 PM)

A couple of quick ones, if I could, centring around cyberlimbs.

Firstly, I think the display for the dice pool of a cyber-holdout is erroneously using the pistols skill, instead of the Exotic Ranged Weapon (Holdout Pistol) that it should.

Also, I wanted to ask if there was any way to set a skill or piece of equipment to only use the stats of an augmented limb when calculating its dice pool, other than just using custom improvements for everything? This especially makes sense when calculating the dice pools of cyberweapons that are literally impossible to wield with any other limb.

The copy of my book has the following on page 316:

QUOTE

Hold-Outs
Use the Pistols skill when firing a hold-out pistol.

SpellBinder

Apr 29 2012, 10:51 PM

Check the Exotic Ranged Weapons skill in SR4a, 122. It lists cyber-implant guns specifically.

SpellBinder

Apr 30 2012, 06:32 AM

Came across an interesting glitch in the program. Working with a character file in career mode, and selected a specialization for a skill in a group. I cannot recall where I clicked off, but first said "No" because it would break the group, but later went back and did it again, and not only did the karma not get deducted but the program believes that the skill group is intact. I was able to do this a second time, first saying "No" at the karma expenditure, went back and set a specialization, and clicked in the Skill Category dropdown, and again the specialization was applied without any cost or consequence.

Tashiro

Apr 30 2012, 09:57 PM

Free Spirit PCs and Power Points
Free Spirits have a Power Point total equal to its Edge. It can also get Power Points through initiation.
For some reason, when a Free Spirit increases Edge in Chummer, it doesn't get the additional Power Points it should. :\

Neko Asakami

May 1 2012, 05:42 AM

I have run into a something odd. I've created an adept with 5.21 essence and a Magic of 5. When I have the "Essence loss only reduces MAG/RES maximum" checked I have 10 BP, but when that house rule is not checked, I lose that 10 BP (meaning I have 0 BP left). At first, I was pretty sure it was just some math I wasn't getting, but when I lower the MAG from 5 to 4, I gain 25 BP either way. Not entirely sure what's going on here, help?

SpellBinder

May 1 2012, 07:23 AM

House rule disabled, your magic range is 0-5.

House rule enabled, your magic range is 1-5.

The point difference between 4 and 5 in this case is 25, just like for maximizing any attribute.

Leoric

May 1 2012, 10:18 AM

In the spell tab, could you make the Drain resistance pool take into account the selected spell? If the spell is "limited" by a fetish, it should add +2 to drain resistance pool.

Neko Asakami

May 1 2012, 03:18 PM

Took me a few minutes to get what was happening there (my starting point of Magic from Adept was being lowered to 0 by the Essence loss), but I got it! Thank you!

Nebular

May 1 2012, 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Tashiro @ Apr 30 2012, 03:57 PM)

Free Spirit PCs and Power Points
Free Spirits have a Power Point total equal to its Edge. It can also get Power Points through initiation.
For some reason, when a Free Spirit increases Edge in Chummer, it doesn't get the additional Power Points it should. :\

I can't seem to reproduce this behaviour using either the Free Spirit Metatype or Free Spirit Critter using the current version in both Create and Career Modes. Do you have a save file you could send me where this is happening?

Nebular

May 1 2012, 04:24 PM

QUOTE (Leoric @ May 1 2012, 04:18 AM)

In the spell tab, could you make the Drain resistance pool take into account the selected spell? If the spell is "limited" by a fetish, it should add +2 to drain resistance pool.

Absolutely. I'll have this in the next update.

Nemo

May 1 2012, 08:12 PM

Hello Nebular,

the Cyber Saftey Firearm Accessor from Augmentation p.40/41 is missing.

SpellBinder

May 1 2012, 08:47 PM

QUOTE (Nemo @ May 1 2012, 01:12 PM)

Hello Nebular,

the Cyber Saftey Firearm Accessor from Augmentation p.40/41 is missing.

The one that also makes a non-wireless connection to a smartgun? You'll wanna make sure the "Augmentation" book is enabled, and search for "Cyber Safety" in the Cyberware and Bioware tab via "Add Cyberware". It's in the "Bodyware" category.

Nemo

May 2 2012, 06:13 AM

QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 1 2012, 08:47 PM)

The one that also makes a non-wireless connection to a smartgun? You'll wanna make sure the "Augmentation" book is enabled, and search for "Cyber Safety" in the Cyberware and Bioware tab via "Add Cyberware". It's in the "Bodyware" category.

The Cyber-Implant is there, but the corrosponding Weapon-Modifikation is missing. You need both Components for effect.

SpellBinder

May 2 2012, 07:33 AM

Yeah, found it.

CeeJay

May 3 2012, 08:34 AM

Hi Nebular,

I'm still having problems adding program options to Autosofts. Maybe I'm just to dumb to puzzle out how chummer works...

Anyway, here's what I did:
- I bought Targeting autosoft rating 3 in tab gear in creation mode. The autosoft comes with Copy Protection and Registration program options and has a capacity of 0 (0 remaining). When I buy for instance the Ergonomic option as a plugin the capacity goes to 0 (-1 remaining) and I get an error message when I want to save in career mode.
- The same happens when I buy Targeting rating 3 hacked. Now the autosoft comes without any options but still has 0 capacity and goes to 0 (-1 remaining) when I add an option.

So, how do I add a program option to an autosoft?

Oh and one other minor thing. When I buy Targeting autosoft as a drone plugin in tab vehicles, I can't specifiy which weapon type the autosoft is for. That's also the case for Maneuver autosofts.

-CJ

SpellBinder

May 3 2012, 09:44 AM

Ergonomic isn't allowed to Autosofts, and also isn't necessary as Autosofts don't count towards your running programs on a node, nor are limited by a node's ratings (means Optimization is useless). The only options you'd really want to add to an Autosoft are Crashguard and Viral Resistance.

Chummer also doesn't appear to track the number of options you can add to Autosofts at all. Tested, but didn't get any error when saving with a funky Autosoft in a drone.

It's also odd in the Targeting Autosoft in that if you add it in the gear section first you're prompted for a value, but not if you directly add it to a vehicle. If you move the program from the vehicle to your gear inventory, you'll be prompted for a value. Then you can just move it back to that vehicle and the value will carry over.

CeeJay

May 3 2012, 11:21 AM

QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 3 2012, 11:44 AM)

... and also isn't necessary as Autosofts don't count towards your running programs on a node, nor are limited by a node's ratings (means Optimization is useless)...

???
Source for that?

-CJ

ShadowWalker

May 3 2012, 01:09 PM

QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 3 2012, 05:44 AM)

It's also odd in the Targeting Autosoft in that if you add it in the gear section first you're prompted for a value, but not if you directly add it to a vehicle. If you move the program from the vehicle to your gear inventory, you'll be prompted for a value. Then you can just move it back to that vehicle and the value will carry over.

That must be new behaviour as I've added Targeting to vehicles before and it's asked me for a value. Not done it recently though.

mister__joshua

May 3 2012, 01:32 PM

This could just be me being stupid but here's my question.

When creating a character I had purchased one weapon and one vehicle.
After buying my SIN I tried to purchase a fake license for the vehicle. I didn't want one for the gun as it isn't gonna be carried around regularly. When I purchased the fake license it automatically set the value to be the name of the gun, and I couldn't find a way to change it. If I purchased multiple fake licenses they all came out being for the same gun. Is there a way to change this?

Cheers

CeeJay

May 3 2012, 02:02 PM

When you buy a fake license the pop-up box suggests restricted gear you have already bought, in your case the pistol. Most likely the vehicle isn't restricted and therefore isn't in the list. But that doesn't matter at all as you can simply delete the suggestion and fill in your own text.

-CJ

mister__joshua

May 3 2012, 02:37 PM

QUOTE (CeeJay @ May 3 2012, 03:02 PM)

When you buy a fake license the pop-up box suggests restricted gear you have already bought, in your case the pistol. Most likely the vehicle isn't restricted and therefore isn't in the list. But that doesn't matter at all as you can simply delete the suggestion and fill in your own text.

-CJ

Ah, cheers. Mine didn't sound like that so I've tested it. It is a niche case I'll admit.

Bug: When buying a fake license, if the character only has 1 piece of restricted gear the license automatically creates itself for that item and doesn't allow a manual text entry.

SpellBinder

May 3 2012, 06:53 PM

QUOTE (CeeJay @ May 3 2012, 04:21 AM)

???
Source for that?

-CJ

More like sources.

Unwired, page 114, Ergonomic: Listed allowed programs are Common & Hacking only. The Unwired errata does not change this.
SR4a, 246: "Autosofts are specialized programs that assist Pilot programs in undertaking tasks that their basic Pilot programming does not cover. ..."
Unwired, 112: "Autosofts are specialized programs that expand options and capabilities of Pilot programs. ..." It's also only under Agent Autosofts, but "... these subroutines are adaptive add-ons ..."
SR4a, 232 to 234 lists programs, with an additional note again about processor limits. Note that Autosofts are listed on 246 are a category of their own, and there's no mention about processor limit.
Unwired, 111: New programs are listed. Again, note that Autosofts are listed separately on 112 to 113. No mention about processor limits either.

And an example:
Arsenal, 117-118: The Cyberspace Designs Dragonfly is a drone with a default device rating of 3 and Pilot of 3, yet has Targeting (Close Combat) 4 no options attached to the autosoft. There has been no errata to say the Autosoft should be reduce to 3 in any way, or that it is optimized in any way, shape, or form. (This is a reference for Optimization being useless for autosofts). Oh, note that the Arsenal errata changes the type of Targeting Autosoft, not it's rating.

I've read through the books several times trying to figure if Autosofts impact (and are impacted by) an agent/drone the same way other software does, and haven't found anything reliable to say it does while there's more to suggest they don't. All I can find in the way of programs that'll impact a node's attributes besides the Common Use and Hacking programs are Agents/IC. Now if Ergonomic were to list Autosofts as something to be added, the Dragonfly had Optimized Targeting, or any mention at all that running too many Autosofts can degrade performance, then I'd believe it. As I see it, it's like Autosofts are to Agents/Pilots as plug-ins are to browsers; little, nearly inconsequential programs that enhances the core program.

SpellBinder

May 3 2012, 06:54 PM

QUOTE (ShadowWalker @ May 3 2012, 06:09 AM)

That must be new behaviour as I've added Targeting to vehicles before and it's asked me for a value. Not done it recently though.

Yeah, I know it's worked before but now it doesn't. Can't trace back to when that was, unfortunately. At least there's a workaround to use as a temporary fix.

Nebular

May 3 2012, 08:00 PM

QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 3 2012, 04:44 AM)

Chummer also doesn't appear to track the number of options you can add to Autosofts at all. Tested, but didn't get any error when saving with a funky Autosoft in a drone.

It's also odd in the Targeting Autosoft in that if you add it in the gear section first you're prompted for a value, but not if you directly add it to a vehicle. If you move the program from the vehicle to your gear inventory, you'll be prompted for a value. Then you can just move it back to that vehicle and the value will carry over.

I'll take a look at the Program Options limit. I thought for sure I had added that in, but it's entirely possible that I didn't.

I'll have the Vehicle bit fixed in the next update. The problem was that if you added something like a Hot Sim to a Vehicle, the character was receiving the Improvement, so I stopped that which also stopped it from asking for text values.

Thanks for addressing some of the questions that have come up as well! Despite being on vacation, I've been stupidly busy talking to recruiters and potential employers in an effort to move back to Calgary, looking for potential places to live, getting things cleaned up to move, and so on.

I've been trying to keep up with everything here but it's been tough and I may have missed some things.

I'll hopefully have the next update available a little later this evening.

SpellBinder

May 3 2012, 08:26 PM

NP. I figure that there are those, like me, who appreciate a fast response.

Nebular

May 3 2012, 09:41 PM

Build 380

added support for <selectweapon /> to the Improvement Manager which asks the character to select one of the Weapons (or enter text if being applied to a Vehicle)
print window (when open) automatically refreshes when the character is modified in Create Mode
Weapon printout XML now includes <ammoslot1 />, <ammoslot2 />, <ammoslot3 />, and <ammoslot4 /> to show which Ammo is loaded in each Ammo slot
Weapon printout XML now correctly looks for Ammo anywhere on the character/Vehicle
characters that are built with unlimited BP/Karma and have the Character can spend any number of points on Nuyen House Rule enabled are no longer forced to having 0 points in Nuyen
Limited Spells now include their +2 DV bonus in their displayed DV when selected
fixed an issue where canceling a Skill Specialization for a Grouped Skill in Career Mode then re-entering it would cause the Skill Group to remain intact and the Specialization to cost 0 Karma
Gear that require a value to be selected now correctly ask for this information when added to a Vehicle
Complex Forms now enforce the number of Program Options they can have

New Strings

Message_ConntAddComplexFormOptionLimit

CeeJay

May 4 2012, 08:24 AM

QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 3 2012, 08:53 PM)

More like sources.

Unwired, page 114, Ergonomic: Listed allowed programs are Common & Hacking only. The Unwired errata does not change this.
SR4a, 246: "Autosofts are specialized programs that assist Pilot programs in undertaking tasks that their basic Pilot programming does not cover. ..."
Unwired, 112: "Autosofts are specialized programs that expand options and capabilities of Pilot programs. ..." It's also only under Agent Autosofts, but "... these subroutines are adaptive add-ons ..."
SR4a, 232 to 234 lists programs, with an additional note again about processor limits. Note that Autosofts are listed on 246 are a category of their own, and there's no mention about processor limit.
Unwired, 111: New programs are listed. Again, note that Autosofts are listed separately on 112 to 113. No mention about processor limits either.

And an example:
Arsenal, 117-118: The Cyberspace Designs Dragonfly is a drone with a default device rating of 3 and Pilot of 3, yet has Targeting (Close Combat) 4 no options attached to the autosoft. There has been no errata to say the Autosoft should be reduce to 3 in any way, or that it is optimized in any way, shape, or form. (This is a reference for Optimization being useless for autosofts). Oh, note that the Arsenal errata changes the type of Targeting Autosoft, not it's rating.

I've read through the books several times trying to figure if Autosofts impact (and are impacted by) an agent/drone the same way other software does, and haven't found anything reliable to say it does while there's more to suggest they don't. All I can find in the way of programs that'll impact a node's attributes besides the Common Use and Hacking programs are Agents/IC. Now if Ergonomic were to list Autosofts as something to be added, the Dragonfly had Optimized Targeting, or any mention at all that running too many Autosofts can degrade performance, then I'd believe it. As I see it, it's like Autosofts are to Agents/Pilots as plug-ins are to browsers; little, nearly inconsequential programs that enhances the core program.

Okay, thanks. I see where you are coming from. Basically, it's a lack of concrete information about the behaviour of program types beside Common Use, Hacking and Agents with regard to impact on response and system. Following your logic, I could load and run every Autosoft in existence without ever reducing a drone's response... My point of view until now was, that every running program has an impact on response regardless of its type. So this includes running tacnets, sensor softs, autosofts and even lingua softs.
But your right of course, that the point of Ergonomic option for Autosofts is moot, since this is explicitely not allowed.

I will see what my GM says about your approach...

-CJ

Hellfire

May 4 2012, 09:12 AM

QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 3 2012, 07:53 PM)

...

I've read through the books several times trying to figure if Autosofts impact (and are impacted by) an agent/drone the same way other software does, and haven't found anything reliable to say it does while there's more to suggest they don't. All I can find in the way of programs that'll impact a node's attributes besides the Common Use and Hacking programs are Agents/IC. Now if Ergonomic were to list Autosofts as something to be added, the Dragonfly had Optimized Targeting, or any mention at all that running too many Autosofts can degrade performance, then I'd believe it. As I see it, it's like Autosofts are to Agents/Pilots as plug-ins are to browsers; little, nearly inconsequential programs that enhances the core program.

There is one reference in the FAQ on the official SR4 website from catalyst:

"Do “flavor” programs like Wallspace, Virtual Person, etc., affect Response?
No. Programs that aren’t given a rating take up no appreciable space and little to no memory to operate, and thus do not impact your Response rating."

this allows the conclusion that every program that has a rating does indeed reduce the performance of the device (response) when running. However having a response of 0 does not prevent you from running any more programs:

also from FAQ:
"Does a reduction in Response from running more programs then the System rating also result in a reduction in System?
No. The System is limited by the base Response rating; if the processor limit (p.222, SR4A) is reached, the Response is temporarily reduced but the System rating is unaffected."

this would therefore still lead to the conclusion that you may run all the autosoft, linguasoft etc. you want on you comlink as long as you are not involved in cybercombat that is completely irrelevant for the comlink/device performance, as the only time response is important is during cybercombat.

Hellfire

May 4 2012, 09:16 AM

detected bug:

when trying to add weapon accessory with the "add&more" button the program shows an error:

Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

adding the accessory with the "OK" button works perfectly however.

best regards
Hellfire

Hellfire

May 4 2012, 09:24 AM

QUOTE (CeeJay @ May 4 2012, 09:24 AM)

Okay, thanks. I see where you are coming from. Basically, it's a lack of concrete information about the behaviour of program types beside Common Use, Hacking and Agents with regard to impact on response and system. Following your logic, I could load and run every Autosoft in existence without ever reducing a drone's response... My point of view until now was, that every running program has an impact on response regardless of its type. So this includes running tacnets, sensor softs, autosofts and even lingua softs.
But your right of course, that the point of Ergonomic option for Autosofts is moot, since this is explicitely not allowed.

I will see what my GM says about your approach...

-CJ

see FAQ:
Does the maximum program rating limited by the System rating apply to Firewall?
No; System does not limit the ratings of Firewall since it is a Matrix Attribute. Agents, Common Use, Hacking, and all other types of programs running on the device are limited by the System rating.

also the cyberspace dragonfly may be a security drone with a device rating of 4, but what is most likely: Catalyst has (again) made an error. Where?... it is your choice (or your GMs)

CeeJay

May 4 2012, 01:15 PM

Aaaand here's another little thing I just recognized about drones in chummer that doesn't sound right with me:

When I buy a drone (let's say a Doberman) the stat block reads System: 3 ... Pilot 3 etc.
Looks like chumer thinks these are two different entities. I can also increase the System rating of a drone indepent from it's pilot, which is also not correct.

For reference, here's the entry from SR4a:

QUOTE (SR4a p. 245)

PILOT PROGRAMS
Drones, vehicles, and some other (semi-)autonomous devices have a special System program called a Pilot program. Similar to an agent’s Pilot program, Pilot programs are a special type of OS featuring semiautonomous decision-making algorithms and special programming specific to the device on which it is installed. Pilot is for devices that must be able to assess situations, make decisions, adapt, and possibly even function independently of a user, sometimes for extended periods.
The higher the Pilot rating, the “smarter” it is. A Pilot program is basically a System program with extra features, and so is used whenever the drone’s System rating would be. It also stands for a drone’s “Mental attributes” when called for (usually Intuition and Logic, and sometimes Willpower).

So the pilot essentially is the drone's system. Drones do not have a separate system rating.

-CJ