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adamu
Dire

Since your whole purpose is looking for stuff, you obviously get the +3 for actively looking. I rolled them for you. See next IC post.
adamu
Konsaki & pragma

You guys basically finished your second hour of rest. Did you make your next checks for healing stun, and apply the results. If not, go ahead and do so.
Abbandon
*cerberus quickly runs out of the barn and hammers a sign to the front, it reads "No armor piercing rounds please". He thens runs back inside*

We should empty out the van and send it out as a decoy. We never did sweep it for bugs. Then while the bad guys are chasing the van we could go someplace in a taxi or something. Realistically i dont think it would be a good idea to stand and fight.

news "There was a massive explosion at a farm house in the rural area tonight. Firefighters think it may have happened when a propaigne(sp?) tank exploded blowing up the house and everything around it. The body count was 6 men and 1 woman, no survivors. Now back to Greg at our newsroom to go over tonights sports scores."

@Konsaki do you want me to try and get Caittie to talk. It looks like it might get interrupted or something if we start talking now?
Konsaki
@Abbandon
Have Cerberus do whatever you think he would do based off the stimuli at hand. All the 3 in the barn know is that Caittie asked a question, one that would confuse some people, and Fort answered. It's still sorta open right now, but if we get interrupted, so be it.

I wont be able to throw up an IC for a couple of hours, but I'll look back then.
Konsaki
Our mage is time traveling again... The Paradime doesnt take kindly to time magic, Fort gains 'paradox' points. biggrin.gif nyahnyah.gif
pragma
Great Scott!

Drove a car from an eariler edition of Shadowrun at 88 mph and fixed the problem.

On grand strategy: I agree that hightailing it out of there is a good idea. I would rather hold onto the van. I can mask it to try to get it out of the area unnoticed. However, until such a time as Fort is told of the problem he plans to keep on talking.
BlackHat
Shit yeah we're gonna try to keep the van. What else are we going to drive through the wall of Rudolphos?
pragma
Also, I'm not convinced that it's bugged. Why would the runners give the mob information to track the runners down if need be? And cue ball was doubtless good enough to check for bugs.

More likely that either
A) we were magically tracked or they had drone coverage the whole time OR
B) we stick out like sore thumbs and they found us with legwork.
Konsaki
Well the 'Shadowrunner INC" sign on the side of the van might give us away. biggrin.gif

Maybe they had a watcher spirit follow us or something? Maybe they stuck a RFID tag to the van during the getaway?
Caittie can check for those, but not at this second due to obvious IC issues.
Konsaki
Hmm... thinking about it. Didn't that Doc know Burnhouses and Roscco? Could the Mob have gotten his address from the Doc? I mean the Doc was in cahoots with one faction of the mob and all...
DireRadiant
Going to post IC, but there is a question of whether or not there is a relay for the signal. Sledge has signal 3 built in, which is good for 400m, but the farm is 2 km away.
Konsaki
What is the signal rating of your bike and what is the signal rating of the van? If they BOTH are 5 or 6 then there shouldnt be any problem.
adamu
Dire

This is far from a dead zone, though thanks for asking. Pastoral though it is, it is also valuable, well-supported real estate. There are repeaters around, and there is usually no more than 300 meters between houses if you stay on paved roads. It's not the Midwest - think Oregon Willamette Valley or ....Everett Washington.
Abbandon
Plan C (erberus)

Fort throws an invis spell on me and rocky(by his own means or with the help of a spirit) and we haul ass out to the car and ambush those guys troll ninja like. I'd be willing to go alone. I'd get Sledge involved but I dont see how without them having guns aimed at her to begin.

If all goes well we could have another vehichle and perhaps more goodies.
Konsaki
It's a SUV right? Might I suggest this as Plan Delta.

Caittie sends a sprite to hack into the SUV and it controls the vehicle at high speeds into a crash. Troll ninja or whatever goes in to mop up by snapping their necks while they are dazed/unconsious. (It happened during the crash! Honest!)
DireRadiant
Just wanted to clarify, but there actually were people outside the barn?
Konsaki
As far as I know; Caittie, Fort and Cerberus were inside the barn with the doors open. Johnson and Rocky were inside the house, I think.
BlackHat
Plan Echo: Close your eyes and go back to sleep. smile.gif

They're not messing with us right now. (Granted, they are probably just keeping eyes on while 100 other vehicles head this way.) But if we interrupt our resting to rush out there and kick some ass, I don't wanna hear any more belly-aching about not getting a chance to rest. This is exactly why Adam wanted to attack sooner rather than later. No matter where we hide, people are gonna find us and make us fight them.

More reasonably... Plan Foxtrot: We get in the van and get out of here.

It will be a lot easier to lose one SUV than it will be to fight our way out if a bunch show up. If you guys wanna take this one out before we run away, that's cool. But this place still is no longer safe to rest at.
Konsaki
I'm up for plan Echo and Foxtrot at the same time. I would be up to getting that hour ride to fully clear out Caittie's stun. (2 boxes left)

One problem I have, though, is the fact that everyone is equating resting with sleep. This isnt D&D and you dont need to sleep to rest. Just sitting back and relaxing is enough, hell you could chat in light conversation with no problems.
DireRadiant
Could also be some friends of "Gabs" come to keep an eye on her...

or not.
Konsaki
I'd just say we wore out our welcome. Better to leave her alone now and not bring her any more trouble than her wounded husband.
BlackHat
QUOTE (Konsaki)
I'm up for plan Echo and Foxtrot at the same time. I would be up to getting that hour ride to fully clear out Caittie's stun. (2 boxes left)

One problem I have, though, is the fact that everyone is equating resting with sleep. This isnt D&D and you dont need to sleep to rest. Just sitting back and relaxing is enough, hell you could chat in light conversation with no problems.

Agreed. Though summoning sprites and doing the troll ninja plan would definatly mean ending "rest" mid-hour. We could start a whole new hour on the road, that's fine by me - but if we could somehow avoid that, then the last half-hour of rest wasn't wasted. Of course, there is a very little chance of us driving away from here without that SUV (or its friends) pulling something that causes you guys to become "un-resting". biggrin.gif

Hmm, good call about the Gabs thing. I'll put something up IC asking her if she knows anything about it - and offer to take care of it for her if she doesn't.
pragma
Need to point out that I know mask and not invisibility. Also need to point out that spirits don't do quite the same thing.

I'm game for foxtrot -- we can still smoke most physical tails assuming I can shake off astral pursuers.

As a note to the GM: I'm perceiving at the moment so if there are astral pursuers, I'd hope to be in the know.
JDragon
Rocky will go for any plan at this point that does not him just running out and getting shot for no reason.

JD
BlackHat
QUOTE (JDragon)
Rocky will go for any plan at this point that does not him just running out and getting shot for no reason.

JD

Well, there will always be a reason. You double-crossed a mob-boss. biggrin.gif
DireRadiant
Adamu
[ Spoiler ]
adamu
QUOTE (Konsaki)
It's a SUV right? Might I suggest this as Plan Delta.


Read the IC post one more time.
adamu
QUOTE (DireRadiant)
Just wanted to clarify, but there actually were people outside the barn?

Well, Sledge only quickly passed the small break in the blackberries, so she couldn't really see.

But for the record, reviewing the IC posts, Rocky went out on the front porch and then apparently back into the front room, from where he is keeping watch.

As for the barn, I ICed the doors being closed remotely by Gabs, but as people got out there were suddenly some doors open. I will say that it's a big barn and there are multiple large doors. The doors facing out onto the road that the van pulled into are closed, but some other big doors at the rear were open. Right now, Cerberus, Angel, and Fort are outside the van but in the barn.

Of course Smith is upstairs with Gabs.

And I think it is relevant to your question that this was your first sweep of this particular road, so you don't know how long that car has been there....
adamu
QUOTE (pragma)


As a note to the GM: I'm perceiving at the moment so if there are astral pursuers, I'd hope to be in the know.

Noted.

But until I hear otherwise, you are in the barn. Even if you leave, you are in the middle of some wide open, astrally lush spaces - need a good perception test to spot a spirit that wanted to keep a low profile and was not in the immediate vicinity.
Konsaki
QUOTE (adamu)
QUOTE (Konsaki @ Apr 3 2007, 11:20 AM)
It's a SUV right? Might I suggest this as Plan Delta.


Read the IC post one more time.

Ah... my bad. I read 'a black s...' and my mind read suv and not sadan...
adamu
DireRadiant

[ Spoiler ]
DireRadiant
QUOTE (adamu)
DireRadiant

[ Spoiler ]

Ok, that's what I needed to know Adamu. Thanks.

Now to think on it.
Konsaki
I'm going to work on an IC post after I wake up. work ran a bit late for me today.
pragma
Astral Perception: Int + Perception -1 wounds + 3 actively searching # dice: 9 :: 2 3 4 4 2 6 1 5 3 -- 2 successes

Astal Infiltration: Log + Stealth -1 wounds: # dice: 3 :: 1 6 5 -- 2 successes

I'll assense anyone in the car (assuming I'm not under fire as soon as I stick my head out). Reassense anyone with zero successes once.

Some assensing:
# dice: 7 :: 3 4 1 1 1 4 2 -- 0 successes
# dice: 7 :: 2 5 2 2 2 4 1 -- 1 success
# dice: 7 :: 3 1 5 5 6 3 4 -- 3 successes
# dice: 7 :: 6 6 1 6 5 6 1 -- 5 successes
# dice: 7 :: 1 4 2 4 2 6 1 -- 1 success
# dice: 7 :: 2 2 5 4 6 1 1 -- 2 successes

@Konsaki
Sorry to cut you off. I tried to leave room in the post for you to finish what you were saying before Fort dropped into a stupor.
adamu
pragma

Should I assume you will make best use of cover to approach and then...???...poke head into car? Let me know how you want to do it.
adamu
Cross-post fun.
Okay, you go out far, then come back in close at the line of blackberries - that let's you get right up on the car.

Inside are a human in drivers seat, and dwarf riding shotgun.

There is a Watcher in the car, humming quietly to himself, but he is easy to avoid if you keep shifting around to where you are behind him as he casually looks around in a lazy 360.

You get nothing on the human.

The dwarf is mundane, healthy, excited and tense, but in a calm way like excited and tense are been-there-done-that for him.

You can IC.
pragma
@adamu
[ Spoiler ]
adamu
pragma

How kind of you to conceal my carelessness in a spoiler.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake - I missed that line of your post.

So - based on a correct reading of your instructions - what you got on the dwarf stands, but on the human -

He's mostly healthy, though he suffers from high blood pressure.

He has some alphaware in his eyes and head.

He is Awakened, with a Magic and Essence rating both lower than your own.

He is carrying something magical.

He is delighted about something, annoyed about something else.

I suppose you'll want to change our last IC post - sorry about the hassle.
Konsaki
@Adamu

[ Spoiler ]
adamu
Konsaki

I'm gonna just put this out there, since I want everyone's input.

Here we are after a bit of a hiatus back in the world of evil computers.

Now, the rules say the nodes in question have to be within each others' signal strength (and the car is 2 km away, twice your signal strength), but they talk about leapfrogging through nodes - I just assume that people walking around with signal 1 and 2 off the shelf comms have no problem since there are so many open nodes around to leapfrog off of in most urban environments.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that just sort of happens for free, you don't have to hack anything? And it doesn't impose negative mods in the target node for having done that???

(And where IS your persona during all that? In your own head just getting signals from the other node? In the other node, projected there by your own signal??? I hate this shit - they need to write these rules for non-computer literate people like me!)

Anyway, like I told Dire earlier - there are plenty of repeaters out here, so if my assumptions about THE WAY THINGS WORK is correct, then you won't have a problem.

And knowing where it is, it's easy to spot - only thing in that location is a car with an openly broadcasting PAN declaring it is a rental, name of agency, etc etc, everything it is legally required to be broadcasting. However, you can see no connection between that ARO and the car's actual systems, and can't find a node for them either (sussing that out might actually require steps, but those are boring, and I'll give them to you).

Two more nodes are in hidden mode. They are in the car.
Abbandon
QUOTE
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that just sort of happens for free, you don't have to hack anything? And it doesn't impose negative mods in the target node for having done that???


Think of cell phones. Thats all commlinks are. They transmit stuff to a public satelite and then the satelite beams it down to the right cellphone. The satelite doesnt stop and screen calls(unless they make it do that), so you dont have to hack anything and there woud be no modifier for going through other nodes because how would they know who to prevent from sending data? The satelites would have to be military or corp run or something.

QUOTE
And where IS your persona during all that?


Uh...I would think it would have to be at the location of the thing it is trying to affect. Unless of course Caittie was sending instructions to an agent or something and then the agen would be at the target. The agent or icon is just data flying through the air. Think of a music file that moves from one place to the other. Except in 2070 transmission speeds are insane like downloading a 3 hour movie in less than 10 seconds, probably less than 1 second.
BlackHat
I agree. You would only have to hack your way through all the nodes if, for whatever reason, all of those nodes are on some sort of alert or arn't public nodes. Take, for example, if a group of runners were inside some big Corp complex without public wireless access points - lets say it has wi-fi blocking paint, and the repeaters inside require employee IDs to use. If two team members are on opposite sides of the facility with crappy signal 1 comms, they can't call one another. They COULD hop through a handful of nodes to get teh job done, since they are probably within arms reach of a wireless device, but since their commcodes or IDs arn't in the facilities database ofemployee IDs, they'd have to hack their way through them (or hack to add themselves to the eployee database, but they'd still have to hack their way over to the main computer that holds that information). In any case, in a typical city environment, I think it is assumed that the local telecommunications grid involves a lot of signal repeaters so that your average signal 1 commlink can function anywhere in the city, unless there is some sort of big disaster nearby.
BlackHat
I also think that the SR assumption is that someone DOES screen the incoming calls, but that, as part of your lifestyle, you pay for a cell-phone account (and that its relativly easy to get one with fake data, or none at all - like a pay-as-you-go plan). The point is, when I turn on my Sprint cellphone, I can't send a signal to a, say, Verizon satallite... I mean, it could probably communicate with the nearest Verizon cell-phone tower, but my phone isn't a member of their network, so the call isn't going to go anywhere.

Same thing is bound to be true in SR. With the many many subsidiary corps offering various telecommunication packages, and with lots of shadey dealings to allow the sharing of their hardlines... I can still call my friend if he uses Verizon, even though I use Sprint, and I don't really have to worry about all the handshaking that gets done to get my call over there.

Of course, in real life, it'd be damn tricky to use my Sprint cellphone to somehow discover the phone number or account ID of the Verizon customer sitting next to me on the bus... but that would basically be impossible using now-a-days tech no matter what. biggrin.gif Some of it we can't use real world analogies for.

But its not so much that they set up free-to-use zero-security wireless transmitters all over town... as I suspect it is the case that the Shadowrun Commlink companies have various repeaters and such available for their customers... all of which are tied together at some point, so it basically doesn't matter what little no-name Corp your character pays for service.
pragma
QUOTE (Abbandon @ Apr 5 2007, 10:22 AM)
QUOTE
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that just sort of happens for free, you don't have to hack anything? And it doesn't impose negative mods in the target node for having done that???


Think of cell phones. Thats all commlinks are. They transmit stuff to a public satelite and then the satelite beams it down to the right cellphone. The satelite doesnt stop and screen calls(unless they make it do that), so you dont have to hack anything and there woud be no modifier for going through other nodes because how would they know who to prevent from sending data? The satelites would have to be military or corp run or something.

I think the effect they're going for is not so much a cell network (which is based on towers, not satellites) or a satellite network (which requires your commlink to be able to talk to outer space, a place that is very out of the range of a signal 1 commlink) but a mesh network.

A cell network requires that your phone broadcast to the nearest cell tower. That tower then talks to other towers or satellites which eventually talk to a land line or the recipient's cell phone. This still requires potentially miles of broadcasting distance.

A satellite network requires a clear shot at the sky and a signal strong enough to talk to outer space. I imagine that comm modification called satellite uplink gives you access to this.

In a mesh network every device that talks to the network is running some low level programs to reroute data. Every computer/toaster/other device is designed to talk to any other computer/toaster/other device. The aggregated effect of all of this low level networking is that a piece of data can wind up bouncing through all kinds of devices before getting where it is going, but it the sender only needs to be able to talk to the nearest (longer range) wireless device in order to get better transmission.

In SR4 the matrix is a mesh network with a cell backbone (the repeaters adamu keeps mentioning) and satellite premium service.

In game terms it means that as long as there are a sufficient number of devices in an area to make useful wireless coverage any node can talk, for free, to any other node. Whether or not the other node wants to listen is where hacking comes in.

(As Blackhat pointed out, this could of course be different in high security environments where they might lock down mesh functionality or play some other hacking tricks.)

(As Blackhat also pointed out, providing the mesh software and cell services is big, brutal business. However, in Shadowrun most lemonade stands probably have stables of Shadowrunners at their disposal so it isn't all that surprising to see some throats slit over the network that everyone uses biggrin.gif )
Konsaki
-SCAN-
To my knowledge of current wireless systems, the SCAN function is an entirely passive test. By passive, I mean that the subject performing the scan does not transmit anything for the test, only recieves signal information. It then decodes and identifies any patterns in the waveforms to find the following information: Azimuth of target(s), Frequency of target(s), Commcode information and identification(SIN or other) if available.
The major determining factors of the test is the transmittion range (Signal #) of the target and the distance from the subject performing the test. Example below of two ranges:

CODE
Test 1 - Failed Scan test based off target with a signal 3(400m) at a range of 900m. '>' = 50m, X=target, C=Caittie

X>>>>>>>>400m
                  C-900m

Test 2 - Successful Scan test based off target with signal 4(1km) at range of 900m.

X>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1km
                  C-900m


In the first test, Caittie couldn't see the target at all since the signal wouldnt reach, though could in the second one. If we use our current in game ranges, the car and occupants would have to have a signal of 5(4km) or 6(10km) to reach Caittie. If they dont have that, then she wouldn't be able to pick up a signal from them and the commcode by proxy.
IMO, you cannot gain a commcode by hopping through a repeater unless within direct contact with an icon.
More later when I'm not be bombarded by work.
DireRadiant
Caittie was given access to Sledge's commlink ages ago, so long ago it's a dim and distant memory. But it does mean Angel could "connect" to it through hopping nodes, windows within windows within windows, and use Sledges Device to Scan. Not that much use since Sledge can do that for herself, and her comm is onyl signal 3 (400 m), though it does have nice software on it, scan 4.

However, Caittie could send a sprite to use Sledges Commlink as the device that is in range to scan, which will be fine once Sledge gets within 400 m of that car again (which she isn't right now).

I think ultimately shows one limitation of technomancers, in that they don't need a commlink per se, for themselves, but they definately are totally lost unless there is some device nearby to use.

The differences here is between passing communication along, which most devices no doubt do automatically against using the Scan and detection which in the end always requires a physical device, and that physical device must itself be in range of the scan. The wirelesss signal is in fact detected by a physical device.

I'm jsut putting my two bits in, even though I'm not sure what the discussion is about to begin with. smile.gif
DireRadiant
I think this means that Sledge can act as the host commlink for launching a sprite of Caitties once Sledge is in range.
DireRadiant
Yes, a satellite link is on the shopping list.
Konsaki
QUOTE (DireRadiant)
I think this means that Sledge can act as the host commlink for launching a sprite of Caitties once Sledge is in range.

That was always an option, but I was explaining the mechanics of the Scan test. Just substitute Caittie for Sledge and it would work the same.

IC now though, I dont have to worry about the Scanning anymore since Adamu gave me the info I need, which means they should have a signal 5-6 on thier hidden commlinks. Now I can perform my matrix actions through a repeater with no problem.
IE - everything is cool right now, I just need to write up my IC post, which would be in 2-3 hours from now, and perform the rolls for the hacking and whatnot.
Konsaki
QUOTE (DireRadiant)
I think ultimately shows one limitation of technomancers, in that they don't need a commlink per se, for themselves, but they definately are totally lost unless there is some device nearby to use.

The differences here is between passing communication along, which most devices no doubt do automatically against using the Scan and detection which in the end always requires a physical device, and that physical device must itself be in range of the scan. The wirelesss signal is in fact detected by a physical device.

I'm jsut putting my two bits in, even though I'm not sure what the discussion is about to begin with. smile.gif

This isn't just a limitation on TM's but all people and things that use the scan test. You cannot use a repeater to perform a scan test unless you have access to the repeater (Hacked/Legal) and use the repeater as the point of test (It is the center of the test instead of the TM/Hacker.

TM's do not require any physical opbject to perform any matrix action. They require the same thing a Hacker requires to perform their digital magic: Their Commlink(TM's use their brain) and another matrix item(Target Commlink or node). The only thing that both would require is the automatic use of repeaters, which are a background item used in communication and datasearches.
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