-pg225 says the reciever of encryption needs a key.
-pg 226 Encrypt says it can be used to secure communications BETWEEN nodes...

@dire thats where our individual commlinks come into play. If they know our Access ID's they know exactly where to look. We all need agents and spoofing software asap so we can be changing our numbers frequently.

Use the Love Machine. You're in it. Which Sledge knows.

And most likely any signal from inside the Love Machine would be relayed through the vehicle node anyway.

Yeah, the part they gloss over or ignore is how annoying constant spoofing would be for everyone else.

Imagine trying to have an IM conversation with someone who keeps logging off, changing his user name, coming back online, rerequesting to be your "buddy", adding one more line to the conversation, and logging off again. Might be super secure if anyone was watching any of those accounts, because they would only get one message-worth of information... but probably more trouble than it is worth to talk to your paranoid friend.

I think, between conversations, and CERTAINLY between runs it is a good idea for us to all "clear our caches" and spoof away our previous datatrail. Doing it mid conversation should probably be reserved for times when we have reason to be paranoid (like we're about to log into the FBI public node to talk to someone).


The rules for hacking, decrypting, and otherwise foiling attempts to be secure are always easier than the amount of effort it takes to maintain security in RPGs like this. Shadowrun has even gone out of their way to say that they did it on purpose, so that hacking would be viable and cinematic. We could drop 100K on each of us to outfit ourselves with rating 5 commlinks with the best security software available, and a starting level 400BP hacker would still get in, eventually, because its easier to get in once than it is to keep everyone else out, forever. Johnson has a pretty pimped out commlink (even if he is no hacker, himself), but I would still expect that any real hacker could get into it, if properly motivated.

I'm not saying your rating 1 metalink with no programs is anywhere near secure enough for real Shadowrunning, but for what we're talking about now, I think our current stop-gap solution is workable. Just don't go using our real names or anything.

@Adamu Where should we say what programs we are using? In the header with our PAN? an OOC note? Your keeping track of it all in your notes??

Cerberus's comm:


We have to remember to start grabbing drone corpses lol to try and get free programs and agents.

In a perfect world, everyone's up-to-the-minute program loadouts would be on the wiki.
I have gotten more in the habit of looking there first for things before asking (so it's in everyone's best interest to make sure things are up-to-date, so I don't go to make a secret suprise roll or something and shortchange you!).
Actually, though, I have hard copy records of everyone's core stats and gear, which I reference for anything really important.

But like money, constantly changing program loads are too much bookkeeping for me to do it in hardcopy myself, so I count on each of you. And since I won't want to warn you if you get hacked, and what programs - Analyze for instance - are running when you get hacked is of huge importance to you, I strongly encourage you to have at least your "unless otherwise stated" load on the wiki - not to your benefit to make me guess...

Hmm....I think I will make a section on the equipment page. Under currently Equipped will be something like Current PAN whats hooked up, what programs are active... atleast on my page.

Hmmm I think I may play around with a mechanics page revamp. I think your health, your current gear, your current pan should be all on one page.....

I will let you know when i actually make the changes so everyone can check them out.

Dude - you're a saint.

Such things could be very convenient for players that choose to use them. Alternatively, they can do their own formatting as they wish.

lol IM a saint ?? Just for suggesting that information from different pages all be present on one page? Anyways here is a rough draft of what I came up with for a PAN/Active Program section to the mechanics page.. I made three options. Personally I think I really like #3.

http://hittingbottomdsf.wikispaces.com/MechanicRevamp

Current Gear section wasnt messed with but I envision a normal standard text list of your shit that your carrying and then a table to give the stats of your weapons and gear that you might use. Im thinking of trying to make a single table that everything can be squished into so there isnt a bunch of seperate tables. But that might look fugly.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Teir 2 PAN", but I think you mean if someone has multiple commlinks, and has one connected to the other.
I think, in that case, the PC could just create two "PAN" entries, and list one has being in hidden mode (or with wireless off) and make sure both appear on each other's linked devices.
For an internal cyberware network, it would be jsut as important to track how many devices are actively connected, what programs are running, etc, as it would with an external one.

Other than that, it looks great. I'll especially find the Edge tracker useful, as I have (for some reason) moved to using a notepad on my google homepage for that sort of thing, instead.

Dude the edge tracker has been there since day one lol.

What I mean by "Tier 2" is a network of devices that are all connected but not to a commlink 24/7. For example all of cerberus's cyber and smartlinks. I could use the datajack as a hub and when I want to hook up with my main pan for whatever reason i just connect my datajack to my commlink. Thats just an example.

But yeah you could just copy paste one of those to make a second pan section for a hidden network. I just did it very quickly and didnt try to think of everything =P

Abbandon - all of those look useful and easy to read.

But since I won't be using them myself, I will leave it to player consensus which to use (or mix and match, whatever).

Abbandon, were you going to put one for each character all on one page, or attach them to each player's mechanics page? Whatever - both cool.

The conversation above inspires one suggestion - how about adding a small "comments" space to the format?
Seems like everyone is (commendably) doing some sort of tricky arrangement to protect themselves (dummy comms, mostly skinlinking, whatever). It would be helpful if those were noted.

Basically everyone, the MOST important things you want to keep listed on the wiki are whatever will be relevant to NOT getting hacked or otherwise electronically compromised. Things you do actively, I can just ask you for clarifications. Things that are sneakily being done to you, well, the more accurate my info on your precautions, the better things will be for you.
Won't be in the mood to hear "but I am always offline when going to the bathroom!" after the fact if it wasn't posted somewhere.

Added a place to describe your Network description,, hmmm How does Matrix Protocol sound? I wont mess with other people's wiki's until i finish revamping the mechanics page into something I like. I want to mess with gear to. Once I get a final version sure i can edit them in to everyone's wiki no problem. ( I will paste in the new version and move the old version further down the page and leave them both on there so people can fill them in on their own or copy/paste stuff or whatever).

@anyone You can change the colors of the cells in a table cant you ?? I really would like to get into that. Is there an easy way to make alternating colors by row or column ?

Dunno about the coloring. I might update my wiki with this stuff today, between meetings, and I'll let you know if I figure anything out.

Since we slipped onto page two, I thought I would give us a bump. I'm figuring Angel just gave us the green-light we were waiting for, so AFAIK Sledge has the mic.

Also, just so I know, do we see Fortunato's comm online (in this conversation)? If not, let me know, and Johnson will fire off a buddy-invite, or whatever.

Ah, the forum-game vs. set piece stand-off.

Well, I guess if everyone is bored long enough someone will step up and actually do something.

In the meantime, JD and I have time to finish the maps (the hold up has been on my end, actually), so no worries here.

HOUSE RULE UPDATE

This is just for you addicts out there -
My previous rules was that if you fail three resistance checks against taking your drug in a row, your addiction escalated a notch.

Someone just pointed out to me some real flaws with that system.

So from now on, it is every 10 times you take the drug - either dice-forced or RP-voluntarily - every ten times in a row without ever succeeding in a resistance test and turning down the drug for 24 hours. So ten times taking the drug in a row with no successful resistance jacks you up an addiction notch.

Addicts, we'll start this now, so if you could please keep a tally yourselves on that (resetting every time you resist, of course) I would appreciate it.

Use an addiction 10 times with no resist = upgrade
Use an addiction <10 times with 1 resist = reset to 0, and maintain
?? = downgrade

downgrade = use karma to buy off the disadvantage? I don't really know, since I don't have a addicted character (yet ), but that seems to make sense.

Well so far we have to beat it RP wise, then we can buy it off.

At least thats how I was understanding it.

JD

I have an extensive RP/dice process written down for breaking addictions. It's pretty tough, as JD can tell you.

The bad news is, I'm not detailing it here.

The good news is that (1) it really does have a concrete end-point, and (2) if you get through it, you don't have to pay any karma.

Hey cool, I thought I was still going to have to pay for it.

Of course I'm not sure how long its going to take me to get through it.

Oh well, we all make choices and have to live with them.

JD

OK, some ?'s for people out there to maybe spur some conversation.

Adamu, 1st map is ready and I'm just waiting for the next one.

JD

Yeah - sorry to keep you waiting on that - but then, it's not like it's been needed.

But I know you want to get started on your end of it, so I will really try to get it to you this weekend.

Wow!!! *golf claps* I've been sitting around waiting for Dire to make some awesome thorough plan sending the whole team into action and advancing the story since this whole thing is centered on his character and his character would know exactly what the hell needs to be done and all i get for my patience is insulted ooc and ic lol. When i finish laughing and crying I will get an IC up.

Log 3 + Civil Engineering 4 (7d6=25)
3 hits

log 3 + Hirotomo Building 4 (specialization: foundation & infrastructure +2). (9d6=28)
1 hit

Reroll Failures for log 3 + Hirotomo Building 4 (specialization: foundation & infrastructure +2). (8d6=31)
4 hits

Ummm - is there a question to go with that...?

Be fair, Abbandon - Cerberus wasn't insulted (other than being referred to as a Trog - which, people have pretty much been doing since day 1), Sledge just said she knew what to do with you, and that it was simple. That's probably a good thing, you wouldn't want some big complicated plan where Cerberus has to disarm a bomb, or anything complicated, right?

To be clear.

IC Sledge clearly has and will continue to insult trolls, and Cerberus in particular, either directly, through actions, or through tone and attitude. It is an established character flaw. If in doubt, assume it was insulting IC.

As for OOC insults, I have not intended any, and if you do feel so, then you have my apologies.

In PM.

There was 20,000 in certified cred given by the Feds. Depending on what all we need to make this go smoothly, that might be plenty, or way too little.
I figure, we might be able to pull this off without spending anything, but our odds are slim. Our odds go up as we dump more money into it, and, for the sorts of things we have in mind as favors, I don't think any of us would think that a few measly thousand nuyen is too large a price to pay if we thought it would make the difference between us getting our favor, or not... the question is really how much people have on them - which I suspect, for the majority of us, isn't a whole lot.

In any case, I thought I would toss the idea out for group discussion. I doubt anyone is going to want ot drop a lot of money on it if other people put in nothing... but who knows.

I'm good with spending what we need of the new funds.

But I gotta wonder what we would need for this that would end up costing us more than the 20K we have.

Plus Rocky is looking to sue what he's got to cover his make over and a place to sleep other than the back of the Van.

JD

yeah, I dunno what we could get, either... but let's say anything was available... if we had the best gear money could buy, a disposable getaway vehicle... some construction drones, etc... I'm sure there is a way that more money could be directly tied to an increase in odds of success. We just wanna find the sweet spot.

Ok, I can see that.

JD

Cerberus isnt expecting or counting on getting any of that 20k. If we have any left over then sure it would be nice to divy it up. Otherwise Cerberus is tapped out of cash. I have 2250 or something like that and 250 is going for VR games, 2000 for a new apartment.

I cant bring this up IC because Cerberus wouldnt have this information but would it be possable to have Fortunato summon a spirit to dig the corpses out. This chick in an SR novel cleared away a bunker entrance with an earth spirit and it sounds like it would work great here. If Fortunato doesnt have that kind of IC knowledge about his powers either then whatever but I think that would be a great way to get the bodies out.

I'd like to see some of the 20k sunk into the love machine. It's a useful team resource and if it doesn't go through a chop shop at some point in the near future it is going to be very, very impounded very, very quickly.

We could also use it for a more lasting safehouse. Which would be pretty useful on this run. Carving a little place out of the barrens isn't a horrid idea.

We'll probably also need to buy some shovels. They're pretty cool.

Fort can summon a spirit to do the digging (assuming adamu counts digging as an earth elemental power). It hasn't crossed his mind yet, he'll probably think about that sort of detail much later if at all.

All of those ideas sound good. Another thing that I expect to be expensive, is getting ahold of gear. Given that we only have a day before we need it, which means that if we need anything worth more than $1000, we're at the mercy of circumstance, more than Johnson's social etiquette, or connections. Doesn't mean we can't find it, but we'll probably have to pay through the nose.

Having Arsenal available would make deconspicufying the van, other than a good paint job, and new registration papers/plates I'm not sure what we can arrange with BBB. At the very least, getting the bullet holes out, adding new paint, and getting a hold of new fake licenses would be a good idea (and should fall within the range of thigns we can get by the weekend).

PF: MegaCorporate Security (Logic) 2 + Logic 3 (5d6=21) 2 hits

Expected security on the site on the pre opening weekend.

From the recording of the meet provided by Cerberus:

But I strongly advise you to go in this weekend, when there is no one around. And the simple reason is that at this time, security is minimal. There is simply nothing there to protect. No inventories, no work stations, no people, no data. As far as management is concerned, there is nothing to make the building a target. So for now, there is only remotely operated passive security, and one guard for the whole place. And of course the little fact that the neighborhood is thick with Lone Star mercs. Come twelve-oh-one Monday morning, the sec teams come in and set up shop, and by start of business day they'll have the place wrapped up tight in the physical, digital, and mystical arenas. And the neighborhood will still be thick with Blue Crew thugs."

I am open to any specific questions, but you might not get a lot more detail than provided above for two successes.

Ah, I KNEW that question was going to come up.

Alas, there is no such power specifically listed in the RAW. There is certainly a simple physical servie - "You are big, so dig." - but most Earth spirits aren't much stronger than the two trolls you've got with you.

However, I will say that there are some listed powers that leave a lot of room for interpretation - so much that I am still turning some things over in my head.

But before I have to commit myself, I wonder if Fort really is that intimately aware of what might be possible.

I would encourage you to pursue this, if it continues to interest you, in either or both the OOC and/or IC arenas.

OOC could start with a careful reading of the RAW, or an appropriate knowledge skill test. IC could be formal research or a conversation with a fairly smart spirit.

Or whatever else you can think of. Players usually come up with much cooler proposals than I can come up with myself anyway.

Fort's making a force 5 ward for his apartment -- should be done at 10:30 PM. I'm assuming light conversation is allowed during the process -- adamu, feel free to shoot that down if you want.

OTHER PLAYERS: Note that it's five hours before anything else in this post happens. Fort's going to be mostly in the game for a while.

After that he's going to take a break, drink some fluids, use the bathroom and summon a force 6 earth elemental (picking up concealment and fear as optional powers if they're available).

# dice: 11 :: 4 5 6 5 5 6 1 5 5 3 5 -- 8 successes
# dice: 6 :: 1 5 6 3 5 4 -- 3 successes
# dice: 12 :: 6 1 3 2 6 1 4 3 4 5 5 6 -- 5 successes

That's one box of stun and 5 services.

Auto-success three, two-hour watchers, one to warn him if anyone approaches his body and one to warn him if anyone touches his door. The final one will accompany him

Wipe all spirit signatures.

Then he's going to look up street directions to the building of interest, memorize the proper series of right and left hand turns and try to follow them there. We'll address him getting lost when it happens.

@adamu:

Unrelated, but given Fort's education it's in fact probable that Fort doesn't know the extent of his spirit's abilities. We'll deal with it IC sometime in the future, I'll check RAW when I get around to it. I suspect that one could read movement such that the spirit allowed movement through the earth as it's domain, but I'd have to check.

@pragma - no problem just chatting into any sort of hands-free doohickey while warding, though I'd discourage any heavy, detailed planning/analytical activities.

Everything else looks hunkydory.

I looked through spirit powers the other day and I didnt really see any that could help manipulate things like we want. It would be cool if spirits had a power called "Control Domain" where they can manipulate anything relating to their domain, for example an air spirit could make wind or create a vacuum, a fire spirit could make a fire go out or turn it into a raging inferno, seperate fire, a water spirit could change the current, create tidal waves, rip tides, raise and lower the water, seperate water, an earth spirit could cause mudslides, earth quakes, sink holes, upheavels, move the earth around.

That would kind of suck to have those powers turned on us though, Imagine we are driving along in our van thats had its movement jacked up and an enemy spirit races ahead, materializes and creates a giant rock walls to pop up or a sinkhole = death. I guess we would have a small change of taking out the spirit or attacking the "power"?? before we slam into the obstacle? Technically we can already face something like this from a barrier spell.

Or we could use an earth spirit to make a ramp to jump the wall/sinkhole and use guard on us so the vehicles land safe and sound? heh. From a GM perspective its a nightmare cuz none of that crap is defined.
----------------

Argh!!! I hate SIN's and Licenses!!! I dont want to connect the bike to my good SIN because then if I ever get spotted or picked up by somebody then my good SIN will be blown like i thought the FBI guys had done initially. I dont want to tie the bike to a Throw-Away SIN either though because as soon as I am done with a job I would have to switch and if I dont have the money for a new T-A SIN then I will be unable to use the bike. I can't have some random third SIN just for the bike to register with because I wouldnt ever be using that SIN while im driving it making it look like I Stole it.

If vehicle's didnt have to be registered that would solve everything but that doesnt make sense, cops would want to see who a vehicle belongs to if it was in a crash or spotted with a camera doing something ilegal or just checking for stolen vehicles by matching vehicles tags with their drivers. Still it be cool if the only thing a cop would see when a person is driving their vehicle is the person's SIN and if that SIN claims that vehicle as theirs, because then it wouldnt matter what SIN you were using as long as you registered the bike on each one.

@Adamu I didn't forget about my bike but I was gonna wait till after the mission to pick it up lol, thanx for throwing a monkey wrench into my plans.

Errr shouldnt the Love Machine be registered to somebody??

It is.

And, as soon as that somebody is legally deceased (probably a week ago, the day after we killed him) that vehicle will be flagged as a stolen vehicle, and every traffic light we pass will put the Star on our tail.

A new rating 4+ license for it is high on my list of things to get...

A license would be great but it wont match what the registry for the van says(aka dead guy).... How do we even go about changing the registration?

@ Adamu/everyone Ok check out my mechanics page and see if you like the layout for the active pan and gear section
here

Personally I think the "Active PAN" section might also look nice over on the equipment & resources page as a replacement to the commlink sections. I would think Adamu would love having your health/ damage dealing stats/ and PAN layout on one page though.

Ignore the rolls section, It probably looks fugly but I wanted all my dice rolls layed out like that so i could just copy and paste when i need to. Now Im gonna screw around with coloring tables lol. Coloring tables could be really awesome. Imagine a really simple gear list with green and red rows to show what you have equipped and what you dont. And then below that all the stats for the crap in the list.

I am getting prices off pg 304 of BBB. motels(24 hours) = 100, hotels = 200. I am thinking two rooms at each location for 4 days to last until monday night. Cerberus could try to schmooze the desk manager into not using SIN's. I dont mind using my Robert Nevall SIN for one. Its gonna take a shit after the run is over anyways.

@Adamu


@Adamu: While trying to look up Karma transfer rules, I ran across an old thread where you were offering karma for somebody to guess what movie a quote you used with Higgins and Lowell came from. What movie was it from ? lol. Ahh crap all I remember is that it was a portion where Higgins and Lowell were talking to each other and saying something about having to do all the work or something.

@Abbandon -

The wiki chart looks keen, thank you very much. The only part I don't understand is where under All Programs you list Default Programs. What are the default programs - is there a list of those somewhere else? Didn't see it elsewhere on your gear sheet.

As for the Contact rating change system, your ideas look really cool. However, as I have said before, I use no system for that (beyond chargen - where a number provides a starting benchmark). Human interactions and affections and loyalties just go so far beyone money and tangible favors - all PC-Contact interactions are recorded or at least referenced on these pages. It is up to me to determine any contact's true attitude towards any PC on an ongong basis. And it is up to the PC to try to gauge that on their own, just like in RL. If people have applicable skills for gauging that, they are welcome to roll dice for advice - though in those cases it would be better just to say what you want to roll and let me do it.

The movie - sorry - that didn't seem to garner much interest - partly too obscure, and partly because it was likely an incorrect paraphrase anyway. "Dammit, that's just one more thing I gotta do today," whined by Harry Dean Stanton's trailer park manager in Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me, is perhaps the defining line for Lowell. It's always been in my head, and I wanted to base a character on it. And since the picture I used for Lowell is from Wild at Heart, and both are Harry Dean Stanton in movies directed by David Lynch, I thought if there were any other Lynch fans out there someone might make the connection.

Okay - regarding the data that Sledge attached to the end of her last message to the team -

specs shmecs - that's fluff.

but she attached a map of the building and the grounds, which we do need.

Now what that really means - since she can't work up a schematic of an entire skyscraper - is that she sends a map of the subbasement, which she can do from memory.

That, unfortunately, I have not done yet, but I will get it to JD tomorrow, and since it is relatively simple, he hopefully won't be too long rendering it.

And by rendering, I mean - wow - any of you can easily pull up a super 2070 version of Google Earth for the site, which I assume is what Sledge means when she sends a diagram of the grounds. So JDragon - you can go ahead and post the link to your outside map - he's been eager to get it out there, and if I were him I'd be proud of it too!

Search and Confusion might be useful Powers. Before, during and after.

Heh never seen those movies or even know who those people are =). Default programs are just whatever programs come with a default store baught commlink which the stupid book isnt specific about. It only actually talks about like one of the programs coming with a commlink. I think every commlink should come with atleast all common use programs at rating 1 except for reality filter. Or maybe all common use programs (except RF) at a rating = to the average of all of its stats or system??? A shitty commlink would come with rating 1 programs but like the nicer commlink I have would come with rating 3's? Anyways I didnt know what they come with so thats why i said default lol. I havent baught any programs for my commlinks yet.

As far as I know, they come with scan 1 (all wireless enabled devices do), but nothing else.
Think of it as building a computer yourself, vs. paying Dell extra to install an OS and a bunch of programs on it for you.

You effectively bought all of the hardware for a commlink (hard drive, screen, optical connections, GPS, etc) but unless you buy an operating system to go with it, you don't even get THAT. You certainly don't get a lot of other programs for free, as the commlink, natively, cannot even run them.

Probably, nobody buys them this way, but that is how the prices are broken down in the book. It is far more likely that some company or another lets you design your own commlink package, where you pick all the shit you wnat on it, and they total it all up, build it for you, install everything, and ship it to you... or, there might be particular models ("Transys Inspiron 3000") that come with pretty typical software packages, but they would cost at least the sum of hteir parts, if not a little extra to cover the convenience fees.

It could also be thought of as buying a iPhone, without signing up for the plan through AT&T. Without some slicker hacker moves, you have a very expensive paperweight.