Well - I suck.
I know this thread has been slow, and I know that one of the problems right now is that people are waiting on this post. And I know I promised. But work was a bitch, and I'll admit I got distracted by some other DS stuff...
and I just don't have time to do this post justice right now.
But tomorrow is Saturday, and I should have a big block of free time in the afternoon.
Thank you for your patience - again.
Full Version: Up from the Bottom
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That's fine. Also, have we heard from Konisaki lately? I think we're also waiting to see if Angel will want to go talk to the ID guy (presumably with Sledge), or wants to get busy on the Matrix.
What Blackhat says, sort of waiting on Konsaki.
Yeah - this is like his third long silence in a row. Hope it's something good like winning the lottery or something. Well, he usually responds to PMs, so I'll try that first to see what is up.
Anyway - time just is never sufficient.
***
Basic law of security -
There is nothing so secure it cannot be compromised with the expenditure of enough resources.
The key is setting up security that requires a greater expenditure of resources to compromise than the value of the target.
Like stock brokers trying to find an investment currently trading at a disparity from fair value - smart criminals try to exploit assymetries of information to find cracks in that equation.
Of course, most criminals are just stupid - going out and shooting craps with their lives and freedom. In theory, shadowrunners are among the smart criminals.
That is just thrown out there because if you know how I think, you and thus your characters know how the world they live in works - in this case, they know some of the basic priniciples upon which the security systems they encounter are designed - be they nuclear weapons systems or the twinkie on the Stuffer Shack shelf.
***
Sledge knows of a big real estate redevelopment project taking place on the site of an old cemetery. She heard there was a lot of hassle about making sure to exhume not only various bodies in the first strata, but also an earlier strata of 19th century graves the current cemetery was built over (hey, it was a scenic site where grandma could overlook the ocean - why waste it on one generation?).
Sledge ASSUMES they are using ground penetrating radar of the sort of sensitivity that they can locate human remains.
She KNOWS that this particular outfit, B&B Contracting, has a standard operating procedure of putting up a big temporary quonset hut at major sites and loading as much equipment as possible into it every night (she also knows this job is not going 24-7). Of course the radar is very expensive, and should be there.
She knows they use live security on the site perimeter, which is fenced, and probably in or around the hut. She guesses there is also some sort of telepresent security, but not what sort or how much of the time.
***
Sledge knows of several active sites that use heavy-duty cement cutters. She knows that at most sites, really heavy equipment is not very well guarded - just enough to avoid liability if someone hurts themselves doing something dumb. This is because most people don't even know how to operate or even move this stuff; those that do tend to be gainfully employed; it is virtually impossible to fence, with tags built and woven into the guts of the gear eight ways to Sunday. The stuff has no luxury market - only major businesses would have any use for it, and they would risk too much accepting hot merchandise.
So at any of a number of sites, she ASSUMES that there are some of these things out in the open and likely minimally guarded, though heavily tagged.
***
Of course stealing this equipment represents a major step towards your goals, and it high monetary value precludes a hand wave. At the same time, it is hardly the main storyline.
It will add some extra time, but we'll have fun doing it - and if actually finishing runs was THAT important, we wouldn't be playing by post!
Hopefully, the following guidelines - for use only on this particular part of the run - will allow us to strike a balance between giveaway and major derailment.
Step 1 - Players present a point-by-point plan OOC to GM.
This need not be the complete plan. You will doubtless ask lots of questions, and some of which may require some work to get the answers to. But you present the plan as far as you can.
The more detailed the step-by-step plan, the better for you (see below).
Each step needs a proposed GAME TIME of implementation, as some characters may have other errands they want to do, and you have a deadline, and all that needs to be accounted for.
Step 2 - I look at the plan. If there are major holes I think cannot be glossed over, I send it back for revisions.
Step 3 - With a complete and partial plan in hand, I adjudicate each step - pass or fail.
Some steps may require one or more abstracted die rolls to "pass." The more constructive detail you give, either in the original plan or at the die roll request, the more bonuses (or penalties) I will give your die roll.
Step 4 - You pass steps until you reach the goal of the mini-run, or you hit a snag.
If you hit a snag, we fast forward to the point of the snag, and go to normal posting/RP mode to resolve snag.
Step 5 - Repeat Steps 1-4 until finished.
Step 6 - IC posts.
At each point that you (1) complete a partial section of plan implementation, (2) hit a snag, or (3) complete the job - the game stops until we get an IC accounting of what has gone by. This can be split between you. It can be fairly brief - a sort of narrative IC summary of events is fine. Between splitting and summarizing, no one should get stuck writing a novel, and with so much already resolved, it gives you a chance to go crazy with fluff and character development if you are so inclined.
For SNAGS, you will write IC for successfully completed steps, but I will write the IC for the snag step, as it will be needed to place you at the scene of the snag as a jumping off point for snag resolution.
Okay, that might seem complicated, but I think if you read it a couple of times it will be very clear. Questions welcome.
I think this will speed the stealing process up quite a bit compared to the regular pace of forum play.
I wouldn't want to play this way all the time, but it'll do for absconding with industrial tools.
All part of my attempt to find ways to make PBP more playable.
Anyway - time just is never sufficient.
***
Basic law of security -
There is nothing so secure it cannot be compromised with the expenditure of enough resources.
The key is setting up security that requires a greater expenditure of resources to compromise than the value of the target.
Like stock brokers trying to find an investment currently trading at a disparity from fair value - smart criminals try to exploit assymetries of information to find cracks in that equation.
Of course, most criminals are just stupid - going out and shooting craps with their lives and freedom. In theory, shadowrunners are among the smart criminals.
That is just thrown out there because if you know how I think, you and thus your characters know how the world they live in works - in this case, they know some of the basic priniciples upon which the security systems they encounter are designed - be they nuclear weapons systems or the twinkie on the Stuffer Shack shelf.
***
Sledge knows of a big real estate redevelopment project taking place on the site of an old cemetery. She heard there was a lot of hassle about making sure to exhume not only various bodies in the first strata, but also an earlier strata of 19th century graves the current cemetery was built over (hey, it was a scenic site where grandma could overlook the ocean - why waste it on one generation?).
Sledge ASSUMES they are using ground penetrating radar of the sort of sensitivity that they can locate human remains.
She KNOWS that this particular outfit, B&B Contracting, has a standard operating procedure of putting up a big temporary quonset hut at major sites and loading as much equipment as possible into it every night (she also knows this job is not going 24-7). Of course the radar is very expensive, and should be there.
She knows they use live security on the site perimeter, which is fenced, and probably in or around the hut. She guesses there is also some sort of telepresent security, but not what sort or how much of the time.
***
Sledge knows of several active sites that use heavy-duty cement cutters. She knows that at most sites, really heavy equipment is not very well guarded - just enough to avoid liability if someone hurts themselves doing something dumb. This is because most people don't even know how to operate or even move this stuff; those that do tend to be gainfully employed; it is virtually impossible to fence, with tags built and woven into the guts of the gear eight ways to Sunday. The stuff has no luxury market - only major businesses would have any use for it, and they would risk too much accepting hot merchandise.
So at any of a number of sites, she ASSUMES that there are some of these things out in the open and likely minimally guarded, though heavily tagged.
***
Of course stealing this equipment represents a major step towards your goals, and it high monetary value precludes a hand wave. At the same time, it is hardly the main storyline.
It will add some extra time, but we'll have fun doing it - and if actually finishing runs was THAT important, we wouldn't be playing by post!
Hopefully, the following guidelines - for use only on this particular part of the run - will allow us to strike a balance between giveaway and major derailment.
Step 1 - Players present a point-by-point plan OOC to GM.
This need not be the complete plan. You will doubtless ask lots of questions, and some of which may require some work to get the answers to. But you present the plan as far as you can.
The more detailed the step-by-step plan, the better for you (see below).
Each step needs a proposed GAME TIME of implementation, as some characters may have other errands they want to do, and you have a deadline, and all that needs to be accounted for.
Step 2 - I look at the plan. If there are major holes I think cannot be glossed over, I send it back for revisions.
Step 3 - With a complete and partial plan in hand, I adjudicate each step - pass or fail.
Some steps may require one or more abstracted die rolls to "pass." The more constructive detail you give, either in the original plan or at the die roll request, the more bonuses (or penalties) I will give your die roll.
Step 4 - You pass steps until you reach the goal of the mini-run, or you hit a snag.
If you hit a snag, we fast forward to the point of the snag, and go to normal posting/RP mode to resolve snag.
Step 5 - Repeat Steps 1-4 until finished.
Step 6 - IC posts.
At each point that you (1) complete a partial section of plan implementation, (2) hit a snag, or (3) complete the job - the game stops until we get an IC accounting of what has gone by. This can be split between you. It can be fairly brief - a sort of narrative IC summary of events is fine. Between splitting and summarizing, no one should get stuck writing a novel, and with so much already resolved, it gives you a chance to go crazy with fluff and character development if you are so inclined.
For SNAGS, you will write IC for successfully completed steps, but I will write the IC for the snag step, as it will be needed to place you at the scene of the snag as a jumping off point for snag resolution.
Okay, that might seem complicated, but I think if you read it a couple of times it will be very clear. Questions welcome.
I think this will speed the stealing process up quite a bit compared to the regular pace of forum play.
I wouldn't want to play this way all the time, but it'll do for absconding with industrial tools.
All part of my attempt to find ways to make PBP more playable.
Sounds like a good plan and works for me.
Now the trick is the plans.
* * * * * * * * * * *
So if I under stand correctly we are expecting to need to "borrow" these two pieces of equipment to meet our time line for the primary job.
For both items I think the first thing to do is make sure that they are there before we cause our selves a lot of headaches to not have what we need there.
I have two ideas on that part....
Have Angel check the work orders/ equip lists to see whats been sent to the sites (maybe part 1)
Have Fort do a few astral flybys to verify they haven't already been stolen and get an exact location.
As for information, they both can help provide details on security, layout etc.
Second we need to know whats needed to transport the needed equipment and make sure we have that available.
Since we know these items will be tagged up the wazzoo do we have a way to stop those from transmitting, or do we think they will not be noticed till Monday morning and will not have to stress the tags?
AS for the actual pick up the equipment, it doesn't sound like these items are going to be small enough to sneak them out, correct me if I'm wrong here. Which means making some noise when we go to get them. That noise will bring the guards, which then brings up the question of do the rules set by the FBI for the original job apply to this part. (I'm guessing no, but its something to be thinking about.) And how as a team are we going to deal with that?
Its really looking like our biggest crunch is going to be on time. We now effectively have 3 jobs to get get done in the weekend instead of 1.
I'm guessing that Rocky's make over is going to need to wait till after the job, which is fine just the nature of the life.
JD
Now the trick is the plans.
* * * * * * * * * * *
So if I under stand correctly we are expecting to need to "borrow" these two pieces of equipment to meet our time line for the primary job.
For both items I think the first thing to do is make sure that they are there before we cause our selves a lot of headaches to not have what we need there.
I have two ideas on that part....
Have Angel check the work orders/ equip lists to see whats been sent to the sites (maybe part 1)
Have Fort do a few astral flybys to verify they haven't already been stolen and get an exact location.
As for information, they both can help provide details on security, layout etc.
Second we need to know whats needed to transport the needed equipment and make sure we have that available.
Since we know these items will be tagged up the wazzoo do we have a way to stop those from transmitting, or do we think they will not be noticed till Monday morning and will not have to stress the tags?
AS for the actual pick up the equipment, it doesn't sound like these items are going to be small enough to sneak them out, correct me if I'm wrong here. Which means making some noise when we go to get them. That noise will bring the guards, which then brings up the question of do the rules set by the FBI for the original job apply to this part. (I'm guessing no, but its something to be thinking about.) And how as a team are we going to deal with that?
Its really looking like our biggest crunch is going to be on time. We now effectively have 3 jobs to get get done in the weekend instead of 1.
I'm guessing that Rocky's make over is going to need to wait till after the job, which is fine just the nature of the life. JD
IC stuff
Ok, I didn't do us getting there since I'm not sure how much longer the drive will take and not sure with the new developments if Sledge will get in touch with us before I get there.
Adamu, its your call on how you want to continue, you can drop the needed info on me OOC and I'll add it to my current post or you can take control as you see fit. Either one works for me.
JD
Ok, I didn't do us getting there since I'm not sure how much longer the drive will take and not sure with the new developments if Sledge will get in touch with us before I get there.
Adamu, its your call on how you want to continue, you can drop the needed info on me OOC and I'll add it to my current post or you can take control as you see fit. Either one works for me.
JD
@JDragon - way to get the ball rolling on planning.
As for the clinic - I am not sure we have a consensus on moving from slow (talking) time to fast (travelling) time.
Dire kind of vetoed that last time I threw it out there with some valid concerns about unresolved issues.
So let's reopen that - if we are going to have some active online planning, great - keep it up.
If we are going to have long silences, I will indeed just jump forward to peoples' arrivals at their destinations
Could I have sort of a roll call, including:
1) where you are on the planning mode vs. doing things mode
and
2) if you were in doing things mode, could you state for the record your current destination or activity?
@Konsaki - great to see you are back with us.
I notice you have agreed to go somewhere with Johnson, but you are currently riding on the back of Sledge's bike. How do you guys want to handle that?
As for the clinic - I am not sure we have a consensus on moving from slow (talking) time to fast (travelling) time.
Dire kind of vetoed that last time I threw it out there with some valid concerns about unresolved issues.
So let's reopen that - if we are going to have some active online planning, great - keep it up.
If we are going to have long silences, I will indeed just jump forward to peoples' arrivals at their destinations
Could I have sort of a roll call, including:
1) where you are on the planning mode vs. doing things mode
and
2) if you were in doing things mode, could you state for the record your current destination or activity?
@Konsaki - great to see you are back with us.
I notice you have agreed to go somewhere with Johnson, but you are currently riding on the back of Sledge's bike. How do you guys want to handle that?
I was under the impression that Sledge was up for tagging along too - but I could be wrong, though.
If that's the case, Johnson can swing by and pick her up if need be (at the speed time has been going by, she is at most 5 minutes out of the way).
ROLL CALL!
1) IC, ready for doing things, since a lot of the plan so far hinges on getting some SINs soon. After that, ready for more planning, or action. OOC, the whole stealing stuff idea hasn't been brought up in character at all yet - it'd be good if that was, but once that is done, I'm not sure I need a lot more discussion about it.
2) Destination: Dirty Dick's.
Back to OOC planning. Stealing stuff sound pretty good - mostly because it takes some of the pressure off of me to find this equipment (that my character knows nothing about) for sale on the cheap, with very few questions asked, overnight. The one problem I would point out, is that while we might be getting a large five-fingered nuyen discount, we're increasing the risk of failure significantly. Now, rather than pulling off a single heist, we've got to pull off a handful of small-time jobs to get the gear we need for this bigger job.
That actually sounds quite a bit like a heist-movie, so I like it, but... like a lot of heist movies, if anything goes wrong on one of these smaller jobs, our plan is instantly in jeopardy (either because we were counting on getting that piece of equipment this way, or we lose a team member who has a important role in the bigger heist, etc). If any of us get shot, get our astral forms attacked, get burnt by lethal IC, or anything like that while pursuing these secondary objectives, that character isn't going to have time to rest off the damage before the main job goes down on Saturday.
Not to mention, our criminal fingerprint, which will go from a single isolated job, to a number of related crimes (a 'spree,' if you will) giving those who would come after us that many more chances to get some evidence, linking us to the crimes, or vice-versa. Rather than breaking into the basement of a new apartment complex, and stealing something they didn't even know they had (supposedly), we'll be taking some things that other people are going to miss very much, which we will then use in another crime, linking all of those crimes together. If anyone cares to investigate, they will have multiple opportunities to link this job back to us.
At the very least, I would imagine we would make enemies with Sledge's old construction union, or whatever, since we'll be messing up a few of their projects (targeting their projects, exclusively, actually) - especially because I doubt we'll be ballsy enough to try to replace the items, unnoticed. If we are, great, but it is more risk, as we now have to commit those secondary crimes twice.
All of that said, I still think it is our best bet - so we should proceed with it. Another question for Sledge would be if any of these construction companies use construction/demolition drones - those might be "borrowable" for our job, and I would imagine they are pretty commonplace.
If that's the case, Johnson can swing by and pick her up if need be (at the speed time has been going by, she is at most 5 minutes out of the way).
ROLL CALL!
1) IC, ready for doing things, since a lot of the plan so far hinges on getting some SINs soon. After that, ready for more planning, or action. OOC, the whole stealing stuff idea hasn't been brought up in character at all yet - it'd be good if that was, but once that is done, I'm not sure I need a lot more discussion about it.
2) Destination: Dirty Dick's.
Back to OOC planning. Stealing stuff sound pretty good - mostly because it takes some of the pressure off of me to find this equipment (that my character knows nothing about) for sale on the cheap, with very few questions asked, overnight. The one problem I would point out, is that while we might be getting a large five-fingered nuyen discount, we're increasing the risk of failure significantly. Now, rather than pulling off a single heist, we've got to pull off a handful of small-time jobs to get the gear we need for this bigger job.
That actually sounds quite a bit like a heist-movie, so I like it, but... like a lot of heist movies, if anything goes wrong on one of these smaller jobs, our plan is instantly in jeopardy (either because we were counting on getting that piece of equipment this way, or we lose a team member who has a important role in the bigger heist, etc). If any of us get shot, get our astral forms attacked, get burnt by lethal IC, or anything like that while pursuing these secondary objectives, that character isn't going to have time to rest off the damage before the main job goes down on Saturday.
Not to mention, our criminal fingerprint, which will go from a single isolated job, to a number of related crimes (a 'spree,' if you will) giving those who would come after us that many more chances to get some evidence, linking us to the crimes, or vice-versa. Rather than breaking into the basement of a new apartment complex, and stealing something they didn't even know they had (supposedly), we'll be taking some things that other people are going to miss very much, which we will then use in another crime, linking all of those crimes together. If anyone cares to investigate, they will have multiple opportunities to link this job back to us.
At the very least, I would imagine we would make enemies with Sledge's old construction union, or whatever, since we'll be messing up a few of their projects (targeting their projects, exclusively, actually) - especially because I doubt we'll be ballsy enough to try to replace the items, unnoticed. If we are, great, but it is more risk, as we now have to commit those secondary crimes twice.
All of that said, I still think it is our best bet - so we should proceed with it. Another question for Sledge would be if any of these construction companies use construction/demolition drones - those might be "borrowable" for our job, and I would imagine they are pretty commonplace.
Just so we are clear - it is not (going to be) an apartment building, but an office building.
Ah, my bad. I suppose that makes a lot more sense.
I suppose that makes a lot more sense.
Roll Call
Fort's warding and getting ready for astral reconnaissance. He's good to go for advancing time.
Planning
I like stealing the smaller things, especially if no one's going to be in over the weekend. If that's the case, then I have no problem returning them late Sunday night. We'll be dressed like a construction crew anyway.
Fort's warding and getting ready for astral reconnaissance. He's good to go for advancing time.
Planning
I like stealing the smaller things, especially if no one's going to be in over the weekend. If that's the case, then I have no problem returning them late Sunday night. We'll be dressed like a construction crew anyway.
QUOTE (adamu @ Mar 31 2008, 07:20 AM) 
@Konsaki - great to see you are back with us.
I notice you have agreed to go somewhere with Johnson, but you are currently riding on the back of Sledge's bike. How do you guys want to handle that?
I notice you have agreed to go somewhere with Johnson, but you are currently riding on the back of Sledge's bike. How do you guys want to handle that?
Sledge will take her there.
Roll Call
Rocky is in route to Dr. Cline's to get information on plastic surgery / possibly having it done, depending on timing of things.
Planning
See above.
JD
Rocky is in route to Dr. Cline's to get information on plastic surgery / possibly having it done, depending on timing of things.
Planning
See above.
JD
@Adamu Will either or both of the GPR and Concrete saw fit in the love machine singly or together with or without people in the back? I'm suspecting with how cramped it is just carrying a few of us w/trolls, we may need a larger single vehicle or a second truck to bring everything.
Roll Call
Heading to the Black Clinic, will go in with Rocky to see whether or not he wants me to stay and wait for him.
Planning
I already have a lead on one motel for us and will be heading there shortly. I will probably scan for another place afterwards on the other side of town or outside of seattle. I Imagine that will take 30 mins to go from the clinic to the first motel, then an hour to the next, then maybe another half hour just to get back to Rocky or to meet up with the others. So im just guestimating that I need 2-2.5 hours before I could help boost some of that equipment.
Heading to the Black Clinic, will go in with Rocky to see whether or not he wants me to stay and wait for him.
Planning
I already have a lead on one motel for us and will be heading there shortly. I will probably scan for another place afterwards on the other side of town or outside of seattle. I Imagine that will take 30 mins to go from the clinic to the first motel, then an hour to the next, then maybe another half hour just to get back to Rocky or to meet up with the others. So im just guestimating that I need 2-2.5 hours before I could help boost some of that equipment.
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Mar 31 2008, 01:58 PM)
@Adamu Will either or both of the GPR and Concrete saw fit in the love machine singly or together with or without people in the back? I'm suspecting with how cramped it is just carrying a few of us w/trolls, we may need a larger single vehicle or a second truck to bring everything.
The GPR is big and clunky, not really single-man-portable (maybe single troll), but will easily go into the Love Machine.
The cement cutter you need for 30 cm of concrete is so heavy it has to be self-propelling (at about 1 km/hr). You will need a flat-bed or something. Some come with trailer attachments.
Okay, it seems that the trend has shifted in favor of action.
The clinic is about twice as far from the safehouse as Dirty Dick's, but we'll say the troll have been driving with a purpose while the bikes wander, so for the sake of simplicity, both groups can arrive in the vicinity of 18:15.
You guys know the descriptions of both places, so feel free to post your arrivals.
At the clinic, things are back to normal - same old lady, same sleepy ork guard. He will take both trolls back to the doc's office, and once either of you ICs us to that point, we can pick up the back-and-forth.
Nym will be at the same table, so one of you three IC your trio to him, and we will take that from there.
pragma knows what Fort is up to, and when it finishes - it'll be a while if he sticks with it.
But he and all the rest of you are free - for the sake of keeping things going, to continue to play OOC - as long as you all promise to at least briefly summarize the planning session IC at the appropriate juncture.
The clinic is about twice as far from the safehouse as Dirty Dick's, but we'll say the troll have been driving with a purpose while the bikes wander, so for the sake of simplicity, both groups can arrive in the vicinity of 18:15.
You guys know the descriptions of both places, so feel free to post your arrivals.
At the clinic, things are back to normal - same old lady, same sleepy ork guard. He will take both trolls back to the doc's office, and once either of you ICs us to that point, we can pick up the back-and-forth.
Nym will be at the same table, so one of you three IC your trio to him, and we will take that from there.
pragma knows what Fort is up to, and when it finishes - it'll be a while if he sticks with it.
But he and all the rest of you are free - for the sake of keeping things going, to continue to play OOC - as long as you all promise to at least briefly summarize the planning session IC at the appropriate juncture.
adamu's GenCon plans
I know this is totally self-centered of me, but since I hope to see and play with as many of my players as possible (I know of at least four that are going) on what will likely be my ONLY pilgrimage to GenCon Indy and since this is MY thread, I am going to throw this out -
My current plan is to register for and play in all seven different Missions events (I think there is only one scheduling combination in which that is possible).
However, unless someone can give a persuasive argument for why I would want to spend my precious GenCon time playing a character I had no part in creating and that I will never see again in a totally railroaded adventure, I do NOT plan on participating in the SR tourney.
I know this is totally self-centered of me, but since I hope to see and play with as many of my players as possible (I know of at least four that are going) on what will likely be my ONLY pilgrimage to GenCon Indy and since this is MY thread, I am going to throw this out -
My current plan is to register for and play in all seven different Missions events (I think there is only one scheduling combination in which that is possible).
However, unless someone can give a persuasive argument for why I would want to spend my precious GenCon time playing a character I had no part in creating and that I will never see again in a totally railroaded adventure, I do NOT plan on participating in the SR tourney.
The tourney is the event where you expect characters to die. It's a multi part event. the best players participate, it's the premium flagship event. The best GMs run it. Yes, you get pregen characters, but they are well fleshed out and play tested. Yes, it's railroadie, btu the scenario makes sense, and since the characters re pre gen, it makes sense for the characters. When your table beats out all the others table and wins, no one has any doubts that you are the best. And you get prizes! It's hard, and it's fun! You get graded on RP too.
Last year we had 72 prereg players. All 72 players showed up to play!. One person missed the second night. One. At my table too, which wasn't fun for my players.
For a typical missions table only 3 out of 6 pre reg would show.
If you want to skip the premium flagship event that is only available at Gencon and nowhere else and is the kind of event only one person skips in two nights that's up to you.
The Missions are published and are always available at any con or for your own play at your leisure.
Last year we had 72 prereg players. All 72 players showed up to play!. One person missed the second night. One. At my table too, which wasn't fun for my players.
For a typical missions table only 3 out of 6 pre reg would show.
If you want to skip the premium flagship event that is only available at Gencon and nowhere else and is the kind of event only one person skips in two nights that's up to you.
The Missions are published and are always available at any con or for your own play at your leisure.
I think I pretty much agreed with adamu (if I were going, that is), but that was one very convincing argument.
@Dire and Konsaki - since BH has not ICed your arrival, then you arrive as soon as one of you ICs it.
Wow - that is indeed a good argument - good enough to be costing me sleep right now. I am going to have to think about this deeply until the 20th, and consult gamers I trust (sort of like I'm doing right now).
Sorry to rant here on this thread. I know it really belongs on the convention board, and I might open a thread there, but I trust all of you guys' opinions - because I know you are great gamers, and also because I know most of you have more Con experience than I do (two regional Cons about 13 years ago). Using this thread (GMing has its privileges) saves me from sifting through comments from idiots and endless digressions.
So if anyone has any further sage advice that could help me tip the scales one way or the other, I would really appreciate it.
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Apr 1 2008, 01:50 PM)
the best players participate,
ADAMU - that would be a tempting selling point, IF I knew I was playing with them and not some 13-year-old who has played twice but signed up cuz it sounded cool.
it's the premium flagship event. The best GMs run it.
ADAMU - Another very very appealing point.
Yes, you get pregen characters, but they are well fleshed out and play tested.
ADAMU - there's the rub. It's just me personally, but I just can't get interested in pregen, one-shot characters, no matter how well made I am sure they are. For me the game is about creating a character I am excited about, and that can grow over time in both a role- and a roll-playing sense.
Yes, it's railroadie, btu the scenario makes sense, and since the characters re pre gen, it makes sense for the characters.
ADAMU - a railroad that makes sense is still a railroad - doesn't seem like much of a competition when everyone will be forced to get to the same answers and arrive at the same places.
Of course I am well aware that in order to create a competitive event, pregens and railroads will be largely unavoidable - but are there any measures taken in an attempt to ameliorate these evils?
When your table beats out all the others table and wins, no one has any doubts that you are the best.
ADAMU - That does sort of tantalize, depending on how zen-like I am or am not feeling. But as soon as I decided I wanted to win, the 13-year-old would sit down next to me.
And you get prizes!
ADAMU - anything I can't just buy at the CGL booth?
Last year we had 72 prereg players. All 72 players showed up to play!. One person missed the second night. One.
ADAMU - this is a strong testimonial. I do suppose it is the place to be if you are a Shadowrun enthusiast, which I sort of am. Sort of.
For a typical missions table only 3 out of 6 pre reg would show.
ADAMU - the fewer the funner.
If you want to skip the premium flagship event that is only available at Gencon and nowhere else and is the kind of event only one person skips in two nights that's up to you.
ADAMU - that is the thing - I really really do NOT want to skip it, especially after hearing your pitch. Most of my complaining is mostly an attempt to convince myself. But see below.
The Missions are published and are always available at any con or for your own play at your leisure.
ADAMU - The thing is, that may be true for most people, but, um, do you know of any Commandos or table-top cons in my neck of the woods? Even if there were, it would be a crappy, token event in a sea of computer games and pornographic anime. That has its place, but it all gets pretty one-note after enough years here.
No, even though I will soon be moving to much greener gaming pastures, I have yet to get the lay of the land there, and so cannot be assured of weekly trips down to the friendly FLGS any time soon.
And given that, as noted, my main reason for playing (and GMing) is (watching) long-term character development, I must prioritize Missions participation.
Of course, I COULD do both, but in that case I would LITERALLY have no time at all to enjoy the Con as a whole, or even to relish just being in America for a few days.
So I am indeed in a bit of a conundrum. I very much WANT to participate in the tourney, and yet I very much do want to have time to relax and chill at the Con.
ADAMU - that would be a tempting selling point, IF I knew I was playing with them and not some 13-year-old who has played twice but signed up cuz it sounded cool.
it's the premium flagship event. The best GMs run it.
ADAMU - Another very very appealing point.
Yes, you get pregen characters, but they are well fleshed out and play tested.
ADAMU - there's the rub. It's just me personally, but I just can't get interested in pregen, one-shot characters, no matter how well made I am sure they are. For me the game is about creating a character I am excited about, and that can grow over time in both a role- and a roll-playing sense.
Yes, it's railroadie, btu the scenario makes sense, and since the characters re pre gen, it makes sense for the characters.
ADAMU - a railroad that makes sense is still a railroad - doesn't seem like much of a competition when everyone will be forced to get to the same answers and arrive at the same places.
Of course I am well aware that in order to create a competitive event, pregens and railroads will be largely unavoidable - but are there any measures taken in an attempt to ameliorate these evils?
When your table beats out all the others table and wins, no one has any doubts that you are the best.
ADAMU - That does sort of tantalize, depending on how zen-like I am or am not feeling. But as soon as I decided I wanted to win, the 13-year-old would sit down next to me.
And you get prizes!
ADAMU - anything I can't just buy at the CGL booth?
Last year we had 72 prereg players. All 72 players showed up to play!. One person missed the second night. One.
ADAMU - this is a strong testimonial. I do suppose it is the place to be if you are a Shadowrun enthusiast, which I sort of am. Sort of.
For a typical missions table only 3 out of 6 pre reg would show.
ADAMU - the fewer the funner.
If you want to skip the premium flagship event that is only available at Gencon and nowhere else and is the kind of event only one person skips in two nights that's up to you.
ADAMU - that is the thing - I really really do NOT want to skip it, especially after hearing your pitch. Most of my complaining is mostly an attempt to convince myself. But see below.
The Missions are published and are always available at any con or for your own play at your leisure.
ADAMU - The thing is, that may be true for most people, but, um, do you know of any Commandos or table-top cons in my neck of the woods? Even if there were, it would be a crappy, token event in a sea of computer games and pornographic anime. That has its place, but it all gets pretty one-note after enough years here.
No, even though I will soon be moving to much greener gaming pastures, I have yet to get the lay of the land there, and so cannot be assured of weekly trips down to the friendly FLGS any time soon.
And given that, as noted, my main reason for playing (and GMing) is (watching) long-term character development, I must prioritize Missions participation.
Of course, I COULD do both, but in that case I would LITERALLY have no time at all to enjoy the Con as a whole, or even to relish just being in America for a few days.
So I am indeed in a bit of a conundrum. I very much WANT to participate in the tourney, and yet I very much do want to have time to relax and chill at the Con.
Sorry to rant here on this thread. I know it really belongs on the convention board, and I might open a thread there, but I trust all of you guys' opinions - because I know you are great gamers, and also because I know most of you have more Con experience than I do (two regional Cons about 13 years ago). Using this thread (GMing has its privileges) saves me from sifting through comments from idiots and endless digressions.
So if anyone has any further sage advice that could help me tip the scales one way or the other, I would really appreciate it.
13 year olds don't usually get to snap up the tournament tickets on the first day. No credit cards.
For Missions you never know who is going to be the other runners at the table. Completely random. The question of why are these people working together is glossed over. You are going to get six random groups of differing personalities and temperament. This is not really going to allow for as much character development as you might think, because a lot of character development is based on how your PC interacts with others.
Last years tournament scenario involved an extraction team dropped on a desert island to find the previous extraction team and get off. The conditions were difficult. There were at least four major paths through the scenario, plus some combinations, all of which allowed the teams to choose whether to fight, to not fight, to talk, to not talk, and find the way off the island. The team I GM was the only team to successfully stealth the entire mission and find all the major installations and managed to engineer the only way to ensure that both means of escaping the island were available to them. Other teams chose to fight through the entire mission. Other teams went social. All were the "correct" way to do the mission.
Plus, you could play 4 missions, and the tournament. Get a taste of both.
For Missions you never know who is going to be the other runners at the table. Completely random. The question of why are these people working together is glossed over. You are going to get six random groups of differing personalities and temperament. This is not really going to allow for as much character development as you might think, because a lot of character development is based on how your PC interacts with others.
Last years tournament scenario involved an extraction team dropped on a desert island to find the previous extraction team and get off. The conditions were difficult.
There were at least four major paths through the scenario, plus some combinations, all of which allowed the teams to choose whether to fight, to not fight, to talk, to not talk, and find the way off the island. The team I GM was the only team to successfully stealth the entire mission and find all the major installations and managed to engineer the only way to ensure that both means of escaping the island were available to them. Other teams chose to fight through the entire mission. Other teams went social. All were the "correct" way to do the mission.Plus, you could play 4 missions, and the tournament. Get a taste of both.
You tempt and torture me, my friend.
I do appreciate the specific and constructive nature of your advice.
Ideas and solutions are cooking in my head.
I do appreciate the specific and constructive nature of your advice.
Ideas and solutions are cooking in my head.
For what its worth I would be going for the Tourny if I was making it to GenCon (espically after DR's info). But it consistently falls very close if not on my wedding anniversary, and its not the way the wife wants to celebrate.
JD
JD
Havn't lost a post at work in a while. Er, that is, before just now. 
Reconstructing.
Reconstructing.
I so know the feeling (except the part about being at work).
QUOTE (JDragon @ Apr 2 2008, 11:14 AM)
For what its worth I would be going for the Tourny if I was making it to GenCon (espically after DR's info).
Yes, the scales are tilting that way - still have a few things to find out...
But it consistently falls very close if not on my wedding anniversary, and its not the way the wife wants to celebrate.
And wise is the man who knows that his wife is more important than an RPG!
JD
Yes, the scales are tilting that way - still have a few things to find out...
But it consistently falls very close if not on my wedding anniversary, and its not the way the wife wants to celebrate.
And wise is the man who knows that his wife is more important than an RPG!
JD
@Dire - sorry dude, I just have to know, is Sledge just having fun with Angel at Johnson's expense, or was there something in my earlier descriptions of the place that actually led you to believe that Dirty Dick's catered to alternative lifestyles?
Or maybe it was just your diabolical mind extrapolating on the place's name? (I remember the hard time you gave me about the name of this game!)
In any case, don't let Al hear you calling one of his favorite Seattle watering holes a gay bar!!!
Or maybe it was just your diabolical mind extrapolating on the place's name? (I remember the hard time you gave me about the name of this game!)
In any case, don't let Al hear you calling one of his favorite Seattle watering holes a gay bar!!!
How can you not make fun of a place named Dirty Dick's? Or Angel and Johnson?
Point taken - it is a real place in the town I went to high school in, and I spent my entire adolescence making fun of the name.
@JDragon - don't know if you are going to do this now or not. Whenever you do, I will need a new facial description, and whether you alter the biometrics. Note that just changing skin color or nose shape or whatever will still screw you insofar as your face will not match your ID for visual inspection. But if you don't go for changes like shape of forehead and some other bone structure points that don't change with age, a smart scanner will have a chance of seeing through the superficial sculpting.
Use the biosculpting section (p. 60-61 of Augmentation) for an idea of what can and can't be done. Minor modification is 0 essence, and all this can be done with that. The biometric alteration costs at least Y1,000.
Once you know exactly what you want done, we can talk final price.
Use the biosculpting section (p. 60-61 of Augmentation) for an idea of what can and can't be done. Minor modification is 0 essence, and all this can be done with that. The biometric alteration costs at least Y1,000.
Once you know exactly what you want done, we can talk final price.
Ok, thanks.
Quick ?. - Can I get the biometric adjustment done without Essence loss?
Thanks
JD
Quick ?. - Can I get the biometric adjustment done without Essence loss?
Thanks
JD
Yes.
Ok, I don't really have any specific look that I have in mind. Hell I would be hard pressed to tell you what Rocky looks like currently.
I want the changes to do Biometric changes as well as make it so only his parents and maybe closest friends would think he looks familiar but not be sure. Without doing enough to effect his essence, if thats possible.
I was thinking it would cost me between 3-5k for the work.
I hope this covers what you are looking for.
As for when its going to happen, I think I'll have to see what develops in the next few min IC.
JD
I want the changes to do Biometric changes as well as make it so only his parents and maybe closest friends would think he looks familiar but not be sure. Without doing enough to effect his essence, if thats possible.
I was thinking it would cost me between 3-5k for the work.
I hope this covers what you are looking for.
As for when its going to happen, I think I'll have to see what develops in the next few min IC.
JD
That's fine - though we would eventually like a description of what you look like for RP purposes.
Go with the Y3,000 - that's still 50% over max for Minor Mod, so it will be cool to have the subtle "parents might recognize but machines and fans won't" effect.
Just put up an IC, and I will shoot something back at you.
Go with the Y3,000 - that's still 50% over max for Minor Mod, so it will be cool to have the subtle "parents might recognize but machines and fans won't" effect.
Just put up an IC, and I will shoot something back at you.
@Dire and Konsaki - Nym directs his test at whichever of you puts up an IC first - he will shoot the following words at you -
Cross
Wolf
Lapidary
Frame
Behemoth
Manuscript
Declaration
Rabbit
Girl
Cross
Wolf
Lapidary
Frame
Behemoth
Manuscript
Declaration
Rabbit
Girl
I have been wholey dodging the forums but I see it is getting back around to me. Who gets to pick the nieghborhood and motel description? I dont have any particular neighborhood in mind. If Jdragon wants to take us there and do an IC arrival thats fine to.
I dont know whats wrong with me. I have been consumed with playing video games recently and that has lead to the game i started to really fizzle out and I would rather avoid it like the plague than try to dive back into it or kill it off and its affecting this game too.
Im hoping I will eventually lose interest in my video games and come back to the forums, but until then I will try to keep up with this game.
I dont know whats wrong with me. I have been consumed with playing video games recently and that has lead to the game i started to really fizzle out and I would rather avoid it like the plague than try to dive back into it or kill it off and its affecting this game too.
Im hoping I will eventually lose interest in my video games and come back to the forums, but until then I will try to keep up with this game.
Any video game, in particular, that's got you?
QUOTE (adamu @ Apr 4 2008, 06:19 PM)
@Dire and Konsaki - Nym directs his test at whichever of you puts up an IC first - he will shoot the following words at you -
If Konsaki doesn't give it go in the next couple days I'll tackle this.
Well there was.... Ratchet & Clank Size Matters(ps2), Then Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fate(NDS), then i went old school and played Vagrant Story(ps1) a couple of times, and now im workiing on Pokemon Pearl(NDS) and Monster Hunter(ps2). I've beaten pokemon pearl already but im trying to do some of the extra stuff, I have unlocked the national dex and pal park and can bring in pokemon from other games now. My #1 goal in the game right now is to get a damn Lucky egg which doubles your xp but they are a super rare drop on a super rare pokemon lol. In Monster Hunter I thought I was done but apparently there is alot I can still do, I also made a new character and they are going to be a bowgunner which I havent played with.
And then I have a killer game called Graffitti Kingdom(ps2) being shipped to me right now. Goto youtube and type in graffiti kingdom and you can see a bunch of awesome clips. The game lets you design and create monsters and stuff to use against the other monsters in the game. The stuff you can make is amazing. And then hopefully my video store will get ahold of this new game called Baroque(ps2). After all that I want to finish up with some Phantasy Star Universe 2(ps2) and Digimon World Dusk(NDS).
And then I have a killer game called Graffitti Kingdom(ps2) being shipped to me right now. Goto youtube and type in graffiti kingdom and you can see a bunch of awesome clips. The game lets you design and create monsters and stuff to use against the other monsters in the game. The stuff you can make is amazing. And then hopefully my video store will get ahold of this new game called Baroque(ps2). After all that I want to finish up with some Phantasy Star Universe 2(ps2) and Digimon World Dusk(NDS).
Alas - my best interactive efforts cannot compete with a computer program!
@JD - you don't perceive any particular threats.
@Trolls - the IC ball is still in your court. If you are headed for the van - go to the van. If you are doing anything else, do it. The woman will just be walking into the clinic.
@Abbandon -
All those video games are blunting your Shadowrun edge, buddy! I already specified the neighborhood and a number of key details in an earlier post responding to your data search. Either you or JD is free to post arrival at the domicile of your dreams based on that earlier post.
@Konsaki - still with us, pal???
@Everyone - here we are in the "planning the run against a static target" phase. In table top, most people go get Big Gulps before taking this on. No doubt, it is work. And it is especially hard in forums.
But you have made some good progress with a general outline, and also with getting a few things done.
For my part, knowing it will span a few days of game time and that there will be multiple phases, have done two things to try to keep things rolling -
1) provided a streamlined system for (relatively) fast-resolving the initial phases, and
2) tossed in some potentially fun role-playing opportunities, which I will continue to do
But ultimately, you must continue with an alternating combination of action and planning if you want this game/run to go forward.
I know it is more exciting if you are constantly getting ambushed (sure fire way to get the post rate to skyrocket - toss in a sudden nasty combat), but you've EARNED the right, through careful play, to be left alone (at least for the moment) long enough to get something done.
So rock onward!
@JD - you don't perceive any particular threats.
@Trolls - the IC ball is still in your court. If you are headed for the van - go to the van. If you are doing anything else, do it. The woman will just be walking into the clinic.
@Abbandon -
QUOTE
Who gets to pick the nieghborhood and motel description? I dont have any particular neighborhood in mind. If Jdragon wants to take us there and do an IC arrival thats fine to.
All those video games are blunting your Shadowrun edge, buddy! I already specified the neighborhood and a number of key details in an earlier post responding to your data search. Either you or JD is free to post arrival at the domicile of your dreams based on that earlier post.
@Konsaki - still with us, pal???
@Everyone - here we are in the "planning the run against a static target" phase. In table top, most people go get Big Gulps before taking this on. No doubt, it is work. And it is especially hard in forums.
But you have made some good progress with a general outline, and also with getting a few things done.
For my part, knowing it will span a few days of game time and that there will be multiple phases, have done two things to try to keep things rolling -
1) provided a streamlined system for (relatively) fast-resolving the initial phases, and
2) tossed in some potentially fun role-playing opportunities, which I will continue to do
But ultimately, you must continue with an alternating combination of action and planning if you want this game/run to go forward.
I know it is more exciting if you are constantly getting ambushed (sure fire way to get the post rate to skyrocket - toss in a sudden nasty combat), but you've EARNED the right, through careful play, to be left alone (at least for the moment) long enough to get something done.
So rock onward!
Ok, no one jumping out of vans with guns aimed at. Good to hear. :-)
I'll dig around for the post you mentioned with our options so we can get the rooms taken care of.
Anyone have any ideas on getting a truck?
Do we want Cerb & Rocky to just strong arm it, or someone have a better idea?
JD
I'll dig around for the post you mentioned with our options so we can get the rooms taken care of.
Anyone have any ideas on getting a truck?
Do we want Cerb & Rocky to just strong arm it, or someone have a better idea?
JD
We will need the truck to pick up the concrete saw and GPR, which are at two different locations, then drive downtown and drop them off at the Hirotomo building. We wouldn't really need the truck after that point, since we probably don't need to take anything away with it assuming we find what we are looking for. If we are really sneaky, we'd use the truck to return the concrete saw and GPR and leave no one the wiser, but that's just way over the top for us.
If Cerb and Rocky want to grab the truck that's awesome. Floor is open OOC and IC.
If Cerb and Rocky want to grab the truck that's awesome. Floor is open OOC and IC.
Well then Cerb & I will cruise the warehouse are we are in to see if we can find one.
But I know for sure Rocky is not going to be able to deal with any electronic security on the truck. The driver, if there should not be a problem though.
JD
But I know for sure Rocky is not going to be able to deal with any electronic security on the truck. The driver, if there should not be a problem though.
JD
I have to appologise for my lack of posting over the past couple of weeks. I wish I could say it was because of work, but it's not... I've been strugling with regaining interest in the game along with the guilt of keeping things held back because of my own lazy ass. I could make millions of excuses as to why, but that's beside the point.
I will make an effort, a true effort, to post more so there wont be another pause due to me again and hopefully, by byproduct, I will regain my ravinous interest in the game I had back when I was in Korea.
Again, my appologies about the delays caused by my own failings.
I will make an effort, a true effort, to post more so there wont be another pause due to me again and hopefully, by byproduct, I will regain my ravinous interest in the game I had back when I was in Korea.
Again, my appologies about the delays caused by my own failings.
Konsaki, no problems. We all lose interest from time to time. No need to force yourself if you aren't having fun. I for one am only pausing to make sure not to force Angel along a storyline you don't want. As an point of interest, would Angel be interested in going with Sledge to Karnivore Karl's later for dinner?
Konsaki, no problems. We all lose interest from time to time. No need to force yourself if you aren't having fun. I for one am only pausing to make sure not to force Angel along a storyline you don't want. As an point of interest, would Angel be interested in going with Sledge to Karnivore Karl's later for dinner?
Konsaki - great to have you back!
And, like Dire, I know it is possible to burn out!
Heck, last night I was relieved the boards had crashed.
It's a funny thing. It's a game - so it shouldn't feel like work. Then again, most worthwhile hobbies do entail a serious work element.
Just glad you are posting again - and if there is anything I can do to help you stay interested, just let me know!
Are you still going to the Con?
And, like Dire, I know it is possible to burn out!
Heck, last night I was relieved the boards had crashed.
It's a funny thing. It's a game - so it shouldn't feel like work. Then again, most worthwhile hobbies do entail a serious work element.
Just glad you are posting again - and if there is anything I can do to help you stay interested, just let me know!
Are you still going to the Con?
At Dirty Dick's
From here, everything starts at book value. For double-price, he can get anything up to R3 within three hours, or up to R6 within six hours.
Roll negotiation if you want.
Once we get the exact order placed and finalize the price, you guys can IC the resolution.
From here, everything starts at book value. For double-price, he can get anything up to R3 within three hours, or up to R6 within six hours.
Roll negotiation if you want.
Once we get the exact order placed and finalize the price, you guys can IC the resolution.
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