Actually, given what I know about Error's personality, the interview idea would be, well, it would certainly be interesting. And far too priceless not to play out. But I'm not sure it would bring the two sides closer together!

Still - fascinating RP possibilities. What do you think of that idea, DV?

As for the mutual vulnerability thing, very good point, and a worthy thing to shoot for team-politics-wise.
I will say, though, that DV is fairly meticulous about closing windows of vulnerability when he makes up characters.
But that doesn't mean there aren't any.

DV - maybe you could PM or e-mail me on some of these points:
- what would meat-world inquiries into the shadows turn up on Error. BlackHat has a point - if you've WORKED, the right shadow denizens will know about it and have some opinion.
- do you think the interview would be productive?
- what are some points of vulnerability?

For my part, I am pretty close to having the person that referred Error to Caittie suggest to her some people Smith might be able to talk to about Error for references. It is in character for that NPC to do that, doesn't have anyone break character, and it will speed things up. But I just don't know what they would have to say, and don't want to just make it up in the case of a PC.

I also planned to ask Hellcat (hacker contact) if she had ever heard of him. Probably not, but despite his claim that he'd run a background check - she was probably his only real shot at getting anyone unrelated to Angel that might have heard of him.

It would be very fun, but probably also very... well, I am also at a loss for adjectives. I don't know how much closer it would bring the two groups. But one this for sure is that it would be so heavily nuanced that doing it in point forms first basically impossible. To understand how socially complex Error is, consider that I will be running threaded empathy software during the interaction. With my threading, that means an average of rating 9 empathy software. Despite this, during the interview, my social die pool would still only be about 5 dice due to negative qualities coming into play. Which means I have a whole array of negative qualities I get the pleasure of roleplaying. Which means I am all kinds of awkward, while keeping in mind I probably know what you are feeling better then you do. So yeah, really fun, but not something to do in point form.

Adam hit the nail on the head when he said I was "fairly meticulous about closing windows of vulnerability." For years (before I discovered internet gaming) the only group I could find to play with was far more into roll-playing than role-playing, and any vulnerability would get a character, no matter how much time and roleplaying invested, kill in a heartbeat. So I got really good at making powerful characters without sacrificing roleplaying. But I still have a really hard time having characters with big, obvious vulnerabilities. The old fear just keeps nagging that he won't survive a single session if I do. But Error has a fair share of weakpoints. I will get you that email asap, Adam.

Blackhat, I don't know what your schedule is like, but maybe we could set aside an hour or two in the next few days to both be online. Then through either rapid posting, email or IM we could get the meeting done quickly. Actually, it is looking like tomorrow I am going to be staying in and doing some readings for my classes, so I should be available all day. I am in GMT+1 right now, I can't remember what timezone you are in.

All that looks muy constructive from everyone - I'll let you two proceed with that, and I'll toss some more wood on the IC fire right now.

I'm going to be online a bit on and off today - have some work I have to get done until around 6 EST. Tomorrow I should be more free, but I usually check the boards pretty regularly, in any case.

If adamu wants to speed up the next part, I don't mind rolling some dice (and summarizing my approach) and letting him wrap up the search results in a post or two. Otherwise, if he'd like to play it out, I'm fine with that, but it will probably take longer to get to the point where I contact Error.

I'm assuming Angel doesn't have Error's contact info, so I'm planning to try to get it from some of these three people. Also, if that mile marker is very far away, I might skip that contact entirely for today (Smith left his bike at home, and if he gets two positive responses, he probably doesn't need the third to convince him to at least meet the guy).

Maybe we should start working out the interview here in spoiler tags in the OOC, then slot it into the IC at the appropriate time. Angel does have Error's contact info- Adam mentioned she tried to trace him via his commcode.

It would be fun to play out the chat with Rigger Mortys. But you are right, it would take time, keeping DV out of action. Plus, this will be my last post for about 48, so I should clear the way for you guys to do whatever you want to do together.

So -

* Caittie doesn't know where the commcodes originally came from, but she will be evasive or silent on where she got them.

* She does have a commcode which she was told to use to contact Error, but doesn't know where that originally came from either, including whether Error provided it was simply obtained somehow.

* She is willing to meet him with you online, but only if it is soon, in an hour or so at most. She is itching to get on her way.

* If you call Rigger Mortys, she will happily invite you into her node, even without an introduction. It is a lavishly sculpted node depicting the interior of a firelit cabin - a fancy luxury cabin - wood and brick and furs and tea - modern rustic. She is a tall thin woman, rather pale, bobbed blond hair with long bangs swooshing across her forehead. She wears white trousers and a white blazer, open enough to see there is nothing under it.
She is very cheerful and at ease. She will not answer any questions about how to reach Error, or anything about him personally. But she will happily tell you that she considers him very reliable and highly skilled. It will quickly be apparent to Smith that she considers that information a professional courtesy, just as she considers withholding the other information equally a matter of professionalism.

I'll follow up on this with an IC post that hopefully moves us ahead to the point where I contact Error. Unless you post otherwise before I do, I'll assume the other commcode contact gives about the same information, and Smith will save the third contact for later when he has time to do anonymous drops.

Sounds good. I look foward to getting started.

Since it has been a while, and might be relevant soon. Here's Smith's program loadout.
- Analyze
- Edit
- Encrypt
- Stealth
- Agent (Running analyze, edit, stealth, encrypt)

I am going to go ahead and post even though I haven't gotten the result from the analysis. I thought it was worth it to speed things up...
Blackhat, I currently running rating 6 empathy software, so if you wanted to help me out by paraphrasing your character's emotion state (as much or as little as you deem appropriate) in spoiler tags at the end of each post it would help take it the program into account, and I think make the roleplaying more fun.
Thanks!
DV
EDIT: It just occurred to me that Angel might be hiding. If so I will go back and edit. Now I need sleep. Also, I know that ERROR would need to pay extra for anonamyzing services like he described, and he does. Since he spoofs his lifestyle, all the cash from runs needs to go somewhere

Oops, didn't see your addition until after I posted, but IIRC, empathy software requires a camera to be effective. Since it cannot see Smith (especially since he is running his icon through AR), I don't believe it would give you any bonuses (or hints) in this situation. If adamu says I'm mistaken, I'll gladly summarize it up OOC here.

When you respond, could you include a bit about what Error's icon looks like? Also, I'm assuming from your post that you're running a reality filter - so most of what I described might look totally different to you. Feel free to ignore as much of it as necessary.

Although, I suppose if you'd like to make a Judge Intentions roll anyway (or some other social skill) possibly adding dice from Empathy Software if adamu agrees they work, we could do that. Its an opposed roll (Int+Cha vs. Wil+Cha)

I might as well give it a whirl, anyway. 10 dice in either case.

Judging Error's Intentions: #D=10 : 1622316253 n1=2 n6=2 nHit=3
Concealing his own Intentions: #D=10 : 1436424512 n1=2 n6=1 nHit=2

Also, I assume you're running stealth, but that you're willing to let the two people you're offering keys to see you - otherwise, I'll have to edit my last post - since I'm guessing Smith's 8 or so dice won't end up seeing anyone with even a mediocre stealth program running. If he can't see you, he can't interact with you - including seeing your keys, or asking your questions, or inviting you into a private chat, etc.

The post is fine ( I mean in regards to stealth). I apologize about the empathy software, you are right, I wouldn't be able to run it, forgot that.
A little note of no importance is that an encryption key is not actually a peice of software. It is just instructions explaining how to decrypt it. For example, here is a really simple encryption key.

a: 1
b: 2
c: 3
...
z: 26

Here is a more complicated example. Below is an encrypted message.

57B1446CE7D60C91D199E5915B26FA8B

There are two ways of finding out what it says. 1) Break the encryption, or 2) Use the encryption key. The key (which I made by randomly typing 16 letters and then randomly insterting 8 numbers) looks like this.

k3e9il4n5d7ia3md5te2rosd

Looks like jibberish to us, but to the program that did the encryption, that key is all you need to make this "57B1446CE7D60C91D199E5915B26FA8B" look like this "Hi Blackhat."

So what Error gave you is just a key like "k3e9il4n5d7ia3md5te2rosd." Except considering advancements in cryptography, it is probably tens of thousands of characters long. The above key is only 194 bit. In 1999, a 4096 was unbreakable. Completely. With every supercomputer on the planet in full use, the universe would die of old age before the encryption was broken. Of course, a quantum computer would come into existance before then (hopefully) and it would be able to crack an encryption like that in a more convienient amount of time. Considering advancements in encryption and decryption... I think that tens of thousands of characters for a key (and thus at least a hundred thousand bit encryption) is plausible.

EDIT: He is not using reality filter. The fractal of the node are ERROR's icon.

Yeah, I get how encryption works in real life. In my post, I was eluding to the fact that only one person needs to encrypt the connection - and whether we used your program or mine to do so, didn't matter to me. You supplied the key, so I assumed that was your way of saying you were taking the action to encrypt the connection between us.

Okay, cool. Who or what a person chooses to look like, online, might say something about them. That is exactly the sort of thing Smith came here to learn - so I wanted to make sure to ask. If your icon had been a huge penis-monster, or something, that would have said something completely different about you.

Well, things appear to be going swimmingly, and at a good pace. Awesome.

To weigh in on a few questions that arose - Angel was trying to hide, but it is fine that you decided to see her - PC roleplaying gratification trumps NPCs' rights to coolness.

Looks like you all came to agreement on the empathy software. RAW makes it primarily visual, but for a high rating I might allow auditory cues. But either would essentially have to have access to the target's meat. Online, if the subject were using a vidphone - which I don't think is too awfully rare, then all would be good. If they were using a very high-rated icon that was programmed to display their actual quirks and body language in real time (which would be something that would allow super-faces to get full use of their bonuses in icon-icon negotiations, for example), then the empathy software could work, likely at a penalty inverse to the rating of the program.

Actual voice comms would likely allow limited use of the Empathy software online.

Players, play on.

Sneaky little hacker. By the time I got my reply ready, tha answer had changed. New one coming shortly.

There we go. Now we're back on the same page. I should still be checking pretty regularly for another 4 or 5 hours today, so I'm hoping we can get through this tonight. If you're busy, though, I should be able to check DS all day tomorrow too.

I am getting the impression that I am missing something very fundamental about your new character. If when this comes to light, you might want to post him up at the wiki (http://hittingbottomdsf.wikispaces.com/PC+Roster) - once most of our secrets are out of the bag, OOC, posting that stuff makes things go faster when one of us need to know something about the other.

Feel free to set up the scene for the physical meet. I don't know if bars stay open past 2 in 2070 - but I think its safe to say that even if they're not supposed to, a few of them do.

I'm in Leuven right now, and here you would be hard pressed to find a bar that isn't open at 2am.

I am now using my empathy software, so please post what emotions ERROR would be reading.

Threading Empathy software
Software 4+Resonance 6=10 dice
[5] 2 3 2 [5] 1 1 [5] 2 1= 3 hits
Total 3 hits
Soaking 3 fading
Intuition5+resonance 6= 11 dice
3 1 [5] 4 [5] 4 1 4 [5] 4= 3 hits
3 hits=0 damage.

So its rating 9 empathy software.

Also, you need to make an intuition+perception test.
Thanks!

Alright, with rating 9 software, that's 9 dice against my 10 for judging intentions, so feel free to post a die roll.
Even without some fancy-pancy non-core-book software, Smith has a good chance of keeping his cool demeanor.
That is a HUGE bonus for any other social skill tests, though, so I'm guessing you're about to make a great impression.

Same thing goes for you: 10 dice, against your Will+Cha
#D=10 : 3531334244 n1=1 n6=0 nHit=1 (1 hit)
Unfortunately, I only get 1 hit, so if you're any sort of technomancer at all, I am guessing you can buy the success it would take to counter - so, don't worry about it.

As for the perception test: Int (4) + Perception (1) + Contacts (3) = 8
#D=8 : 44655253 n1=0 n6=1 nHit=4 (4 hits)

If you'd like to roll a perception roll, as well, I'm sure there's some crap I could dig up for you about Adam.

IC something once I get to work.

Alright, lets start with perception then.

Inuition 5+Perception 1+contacts 3-Threading 2=7 dice
4 4 4 [6] [6] 2 1=2 hits

I will not buy any hits or roll for resisting your Judge intentions. I ERROR 1406 is being good natured at sincere.

As for my judge intentions, I don't have the book on hand, but doesn't Empathy software add judge intentions? Or is it just a separate pool? Bah, I will just roll it by itself for now.

Empathy software 9=9 dice
[5] 4 4 3 3 [5] [5] 3 1=3 hits

Seperate pool. It adds to social skill tests, though.

I poseted IC, but give me a second, and I'll post OOC about the results of these rolls - since you may want to know before your next post.

Edit: W00t for page 200!

10 dice to resist judge intentions: (Smith is sincere, but on guard, and is approaching this like any other Shadow negotiation)
#D=10 : 1614332423 n1=2 n6=1 nHit=1

So, you win. Your empathy software definitely picks up on Smith being tired - redness in his eyes, a slouching posture, etc. He has had a long day, and that seems to have lead to him being irritable. Despite that, he seems genuinely interested in continuing the conversation - even though he could use some sleep. He is giving off body language that suggests that this isn't his first time doing this sort of negotiation, and that he believes he is in the dominant position (that is, that he is the one with something to offer you), but isn't as confident about that as he would like to let on. He does seem pretty interested in you, even if his patience is on a short fuse this evening. He also seems a bit hesitant, perhaps paranoid, about the situation. He doesn't seem to trust you, and seems very obvious about attempting to feel you out - almost as though he is looking for a reason to trust you, despite his better judgement. He does seem to be a likeable guy, but still isn't treating the conversation as a purely social visit.

As far as perception, you notice that he's not sporting any obvious cyberware. His limbs look real, and he's doesn't even have so much as a datajack. He's not wearing trodes, or a rig of any sort. He's a fairly goodlooking young man, which seems in sharp contrast to the sort of people you'd expect to be heading up a Shadowrunning team. You're able to spot his commlink in one jacket pocket, tucked away within easy reach, but such that the camera is completely covered up.

If you've got anything specific to ask about either of those things, feel free.

And I will keep judging

[5] 4 4 3 3 [5] [5] 3 1= 3 hits

Just wondering if the commlink is a recognizable make.

I'm not sure Judge Intentions is something you can make over and over again - I think you get an impression of someone, and that's what you get (otherwise, over the course of a conversation, everyone would average out, and win at least once).

But, since that's the same number of hits as before, it doesn't really matter here - I'll continue to post details about Smith's emotions and body language and whatnot. You can feel free to do the same (if you're chosing not to oppose Smith's roll) or not (since you could beat him), as you like.

The make is probably not recognizable, at least not as a commercial brand of commlink. The case is probably one of those high-end cases you buy for custom jobs, from some site like NewEgg. It isn't a repurposed case to a different kind of commlink, and the commlink wasn't gutted or upgraded - this was obviously made from scratch by putting together the parts, manually. It isn't particularly flashy or gaudy, but somebody obviously spent some time on it - and its fairly obvious that whatever is in there is better than your off-the-shelf metalink or disposable comm.

Sledge is going to just love the new guy.

No one is going to be able to get any words in edge wise with these two.

Just got out of one meeting, and heading into another. Be back in about an hour, with a post answering the question (I hope).

Well, knowing what we know about certain features of Error's build, DV and I predicted that the interview idea would be fun but likely counterproductive.
It seems that it was so counterproductive that it may not even have been fun for everyone by the end of it.

But kudos to everyone for staying in character so well.
And no one can accuse you of metagaming - even knowing it to be decreed from on high that Error would join the team, the two characters/players were unable to reach any agreement.

This puts everyone in a pickle - DV may be unable to play, and the team may face a tough challenge - as you all already concluded, the fact that the run takes place in a AA neighborhood makes matrix cover indispensable, and sufficiently skillful shadow hackers do not grow on trees, nor are they any more trusting than the two people that just conversed.

Part of this is my fault. For telling DV to just make whatever character he wanted (as long as it was a hacker or TM) without setting a few conditions that might make him amenable to the team. And partly for not providing a sufficiently compelling introduction.

I do have a fix in mind, though.
But I will wait a couple of days - if you guys can work it out on your own (and great effort by the way - everyone posting frequently and well), it will be better all around.
If a few days shows that is truly at an impasse, I will step in.

In either case, don't wait - all parties can keep doing whatever they would otherwise do.

Just going to make a comment on the Empathy software. BlackHat was pretty generous. Probably should not expect sentences and sentences of detailed and nuanced explication from ANY Judge Intentions test, whether Attribute- or sensorware-based. And it definitely stretched deep into Lie Detector territory, which is specifically disallowed.

No harm done - it was just friendly PVP and made for good RP. I only say anything cuz it's dangerous for us poor GMs when it appears precedents have been set.

Yeah. There was no way that could have gone smoothly. I had a lot of fun, it really gave me a good feel for ERROR, and how he spoke. I have no regrets. This little break gives me time to register a few sprites, which can't hurt.

Adam, about the empathy software, the way I see it, the info isn't from the judge intentions test, it was the bonus 9 dice from empathy software. That empathy software was giving me enough information about a person to warrant NINE extra dice. Just like that, I could be a politician (charisma 4, social skills 5). That's two bought successes, or three random. A bonus equal to three times the average human charisma. The way I saw it, the empathy software would need to be giving me a heck of a lot of information to justify that kind of bonus. Since our interaction was not being worked out through dice, but rather through RPing, I think it gave me enough of an edge to fairly portray that bonus. Unfortunately poor ERROR has enough penalties stack ontop of himself at the moment to almost completely negate it So I wouldn't expect that kind of information from NPCs, no worries.

As for bringing ERROR into the group, maybe Angel could pass on from her mentor a little more information about ERROR.

That might give Smith sufficient context for the interview that he might reconsider.

P.S, Perhaps Shadowrun needs this.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/store/side_...essories/p8.htm

Yeah, I sort of figured that Smith's opinion of the interview was really only academic, but that he still thinks he gets to call the shots. The ending definitely gave him something to think about, and a good reason to consider calling Error back if the team throws a hissy - but it would mean eating a huge piece of humble-pie, so if he can avoid it, he will.

At this point, its a balancing act between stopping the outflow of team members due to personal matters, and screening people that come in to make sure Smith will be able to count on them to do whatever he needs them to do and not second-guess him too much. Either way, Cousin Vinny is probably going to end up threatening to break his kneecaps soon.

Matrix overwatch might be coverable by Smith - but he really wasn't build to be a hacker... the main problem is his low hacking skills (although liberal use of edge might get us through a quick run). Also, he hasn't had a chance to incorporate anything from Unwired, so he might be at a little disadvantage there. He might also be able to call on a favor from his hacker contact - but that is a stop-gap solution at best.

It was some fun RP, though. As much crap as Smith gave Error, IC, I think he made an interesting character. I just hope his introduction to our team is "gentle" on Bossy McBosserson.

Deus Ex Machina....

Takes on new meaning when you know all about the Arcology incident.

And she uses Rebekah...

Tada! And after way too long, Sledge, Rocky, and Fortunato are back in the action! (Well, maybe)

Don't worry. I will have you found in no time.

Are you running a stealth program at all? I only ask because it effects the threshold for tracing you.
Could the others please post what level of of stealth as well please?

O.K. What I am about to do is a bit tricky, so I will lay out the steps, but basically I am going to spoof a command to the administrator account of Adam's commlink.
1) First I need his access ID. I get this from running a track program. First, I need to thread a track program. Normally I would compile a sprite for this, but I don't want to slow to the events to wait for adamu to roll for the sprite.
So
IP1: Thread track and track
IP2: Ditto
IP3: Ditto

So, threading a track program.


Alright, So I now effectively have a rating 4 track complex form.
Now I track his persona.


So total hits 10.
Next combat turn
same as before.


so I got 22 hits now. Unless Adam has either a R12 stealth program (which means a response 12, system 12 commlink...in which case he wouldn't need ERROR), or he is performing a redirect action (and he isn't he is typing). Please note that he could not really be aware of my trace because, well, I am in a different node, with stealth 6. He would need to first run his own trace, (threashold 16) and then make a matrix perception test beating my stealth to see what I am doing. Which is isn't doing. He is typing his other messages.
Now that I have his Access ID, I can perform Step 2) the spoof itself.

2) The spoof. Now, with a successful spoof roll, I can order Adam's commlink to do anything that he could order it to do.
I make my spoof roll, and Adam rolls his System+firewall. I will assume Adam has admin privileges and penalize myself accordingly.
First, threading spoof.


So thats 2S fading, and you need 7 hits with that system+firewall.
The command I am issuing is simply to copy everything (EVERYTHING) on that commlink onto my commlink. Think of it as making a backup, and then transfering to another location.
Now, I am only copying the contents, not removing anything. I know his programs won't work on my laptop due to copy protection, but I should still get the file, and everything else. All saved data, at least a list of everything installed. All encryption keys. A list of peripheral devices subscribed and nodes the PAN was subscribed to at the time of the copy, and the , access ID or for those devices, as well as the means by which they were connected to the commlink (actually, this I would infer from the drivers that were being used. I will probably need to make a software check to interpret everything, but right now I need sleep. Unfortunately, I will do an IC tomorrow, when I find out if this worked or not.

Smith is currently running Stealth 5 - and doesn't plan to run it much longer than this conversation lasts.

Please note I edited into my last post my actions. They require rolls from you.
Thanks!
DV

I'll wait for confirmation from Adamu, first.

I'm pretty sure that with spoof, you could spoof a command from my commlink to any of my peripherals (if you were within signal range of them) or to any of my drones, vehicles, etc. I do not think you can use spoof to spoof a command from my commlink, to itself. To do that, I think you need to hack in. That is sort of the whole point of hacking. You would also have to beat my encryption (which I've posted as running, back when I posted my programs) to do so (although that doesn't take too much time, either). You theoretically could spoof a command from my input devices (VR gloves, or whatever) to the commlink - but that would require having the IDs of the gloves, which would require either being very close by, or having already infiltrated his PAN - and would also show up on the screen just as if Smith had typed it. You also can't run a trace on his gloves, because they're not connected to the matrix.

I'm not suggesting that this isn't possible, just that you probably need to go about it with traditional hacking - which gives me and my agent, more of an opportunity to notice (or notice that you're not responding anymore) - especially if you're sustaining several threaded programs. I don't expect to be able to notice, either (not with the levels of stealth you were throwing around, before).

I have complete faith that you could exploit your way into a rating 5 (firewall 6) system blindfolded, though.

I am basing this from the Official FAQ.


To me the key line is "Spoof can be used to issue falsified commands to any node" I think the commlink counts as a node, since a node is defined as "any device or network that can be accessed" SR4 216. In the term sidebar.

Right, and if my node was subscribed to Fred's node (or even in communication with it), you could spoof a command from Fred's node to my node and my node would believe it was from Fred.

Sending a command to my node, labeled as coming from itself, doesn't make any sense. That's like mailing a letter to someone - using the same return address, and expecting them to carry out whatever orders the letter contains because they would believe that they must have mailed it - and they would obviously obey themselves.

All of the examples in the FAQ (and in the book) involve devices that one would slave to their commlink (ovens, drones, CHNs, etc) by impersonating that user's commlink. You can't impersonate the user, himself, without spoofing the input devices (trodes, simrigs, keyboards, VR gloves, etc) - which are usually out of reach, with low signal ratings (and aren't on the matrix), and thus require you to hack the PAN's center (the commlink) to gain access to them.

If Adamu agrees with your interpretation, I'll roll. Like I said, I think you can achieve these means, one way or another. I just think that what you're proposing makes any program other than spoof completely irrelevant. I think spoof was meant to fake command from one node to another - not from a node to itself.

For what it's worth, I agree with BH on this one. Adamu is, of course, the final word.

Some information that may soon be relevant (also posted on the Wiki, I believe) -- Fort's running a Sys 3, FW 3 commlink with browse and edit as his loaded programs. After tonight, I imagine that he's going to think very seriously about adding analyze and stealth to those. At the present time he's sleeping, his comm. is on (and passive).

Okay, thing is, it is not your commlink's node that has an access ID, its your persona. To learn someone's Acess ID you either make an analyze check on their persona, or you track them. When someone makes a spoof check, they are not impersonating a node, they are impersonating a persona, specifically the persona whose access ID the node is supposed to receive orders from.
Look at it this way, when you are typing in a message, thats your persona sending commands to your commlink's node. Your persona is constantly sending orders to your commlink via your accessID. Everytime you do anything on your commlink, the Matrix, or PAN, it is your persona that sends all manner of commands to your commlink in order to make what you want to happen happen. A drone doesn't take commands from a node, it takes orders from a persona. Same with an oven, or whatever. And it is a persona that has an Access ID, not a commlink or PAN. Thus all spoof does is impersonates another persona, or make your own persona unrecognizable. Think about when you are in a node other than your commlink/PAN's node. How does your commlink know what to do? It knows what to do because it receives signals from your persona telling it to do, using your Access ID to recognize the persona. Knowing your Access ID, I make my persona identical to your persona, and thus send orders to your commlink.


In all those examples, I would say it is the persona, not the commlink, that is impersonated, and it is the whole point of spoof to impersonate the user himself. And indeed, that might involve spoofing that the command came from a trode net or whatever- thats part of what the spoof roll is for- to make it seem like the command came from the right place.

I respectfully still disagree. Your commlink runs your persona - you can't have a persona without one - and it shouldn't be stupid enough to mistake a message coming in (labeled as coming from itself) from on-board input (keystrokes, voice commands, etc). At the very least, even basic security programs could check the activity-log and see that no such message was ever sent. If you were spoofing a message from somebody else, that would not be the case - but that is why spoofing a message from someone to themselves is nonsensical.

Adamu can say that it is how it goes, and I'll proceed forward, but my rebuttal is that if that is the case, why would anyone waste time with security spiders, IC, cryptosculpted systems - basically the entire matrix security chapter of unwired - when no hacker in his right mind would bother actually logging into the target computer system. If he is able to communicate with it, at all, he could much more easily spoof it into doing whatever it was he wanted, than trying to break in where security could actually have a chance of noticing him.

Now, if we're talking about a Corp's security system, and the hacker spoofing a command from the commlink of some security personnel, who has access to make the sort of demands the hacker is making - that totally makes sense to me. You can spoof one person's access ID, and had it to any node that is subscribed to accept commands from that access ID. I just disagree that you could use that same process to fake a message, instructing some badass hackers commlink to basically self-destruct. If that were the case, nobody would use commlinks, because there is absolutely nothing you could do to protect them (even less than you can do, by RAW) - and every shadowrun would get spoiled when the security-hackers simply tell the shadowrunner hacker's commlink that it is time for it to erase all of its programs - which would be retarded.

<Huge sigh of happy relief.>
Read this thread before the IC and all I could do was assume the IC negotiations had broken down further and now I would have to preside over some heinous PVP spat.
Imagine my delight at seeing that not only is it actually a constructive and friendly contest, but also (kudos to BH) brings the other players into things - they have been sidelined far too long.

Of course, those that know me know how much of a nightmarish chore this is going to be. Going to make resolving the current combat on the other thread seem like child's play.

Fortunately I am not going to work tomorrow, so you will hear from me on this then.

Hey Adam, why don't we make things easy and I will just hack it, and you can take a few days (or weeks, whatever) to come up with a ruling?
I'll start rolling shortly since I need to reboot my computer. All my rulebooks are pdfs on my other operating system, and I have not yet figured out how to share files between the two

DV - the coolness of that offer has brought your awesomeness up on a par with BlackHat's ploy to reinvolve the other players.

I accept your offer.
I will still look deeply into the debate you guys had, and even solicit some outside opinions (if I am feeling really energetic, might even start a thread), cuz I know that my ruling will be of importance to you at some time when your character's life maybe depends on it.
But frankly, however my lawyerly research comes out, I have to say that the points about your plan rendering all other hacking rules irrelevant comes down powerfully in favor of a playability/spirit of rules ruling against the simple Spoof Command play.

Another point on a house rule we use here - you can roll the sprite's resist yourself for any Compiling up to and including R6. R7 and up I will do it. This really speeds things up for TMs and mages in the play-by-post format.

ERROR's life probably will, at some point, depend on the ruling. That said, I would like to make a few points later on when I have time.
For right now, lets get cracking!



Ok, 8 hits, that gets me in. I am going to assume your defenses aren't going to get 6 hits in one roll with (at most) 11 dice, and go ahead and make my next rolls. Once I am in I am going to make an analyze check to see if I can spot any IC, agents, sprites or other aggressive security features.


Next, more or less regardless of the results (unless I get nabbed), I am going to compile a sleuth sprite (rating 6). This is who would normally do my tracking, with his friendly 12 dice pool, and magical tracking powers. But right now, I just want him for his data search 6, browse 6, and stealth 6. His decrypt 6 will also come in handy, I reckon. Oh, and his two optional CFs are going to be Scan and Decrypt.

So that is 4 tasks owed, and no fading.
Well, thats 1 combat turn for me. I better call it a night.
So, Goodnight!