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Thanee
Yep, -1 for every successive dodge roll. Wound modifier might also apply.

Bye
Thanee
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (MK Ultra)
According to SR4 p. 143+, only a full burst (more then 6 shots) would be a complex action, a Long burst (6 shots) can only be done in full auto mode, but only takes up a simple action. Only one long burst can be fired in a single IP, but with another simple action (befor or after), an aditional standard (3 round) burst can be fired, the recoil for the second burst is -6.

So Toy can do an additionell similar burst, but only with 3 rounds (DV 3 less) and with one less die, due to recoil. I would not use Edge (keeping it for the next long burst or what ever).

Well, maybe I'd better do that in this situation.

So, would I just roll agility plus firearms? Is this affected by recoil? What would be the formula.
TinkerGnome
I ticked us ahead a tiny bit by editing the last post. I hit a wall of sorts, however, when it comes to the VR stuff. First off, Electron Storm doesn't work against nodes, only icons. To do much of anything, you guys will need to hack either of the two head commlinks which both have firewall 5.

Also, you guys controlling the dobermans should probably go ahead and make some rolls. There are currently three large trolls with axes headed for the doors.

Also, I'd appreciate if Auran narrowed down his target wink.gif There are lots of heavily armed trolls.
Mister Juan
If with all this noise, the Star doesn't show up... I'll be surprised wink.gif We're tearing the neighborhood with automatic fire from military grade weapons biggrin.gif
MK Ultra
IIRC (can anyone double-check?) Youīd roll the following.

CODE
Agility 7 + Firearms 1 + Lasersight 1 + Home Ground 2 - Recoil 2 (6 - Gasvent III & Shockpad) = 8


This is 8P/-1 base (8 boxes physical damage (6 base +2 because of 3 Roound burst)/ Armor -1).

You can increas your base Damage, by sacreficing dice (1 box / die; max. 4) in any attack (but I wonīt do so, here).

Instead of increasing damage, you are generally abled to shoot spray bursts, which decreas the defenders dodge pool (but with these Trolls, I guess damage is more use).

EDIT:
@ TG & GM & Rokur
IIRC, Auran is going for the Troll with the AK (or are there actually more then one?), as this seems to be the most heaviely armed.
Rokur
Her target!!! and that's why I asked about the AK.... so yea.. Auran's shooting the AK troller.....
MK Ultra
@ Wounded Ronin (again nyahnyah.gif)

The next thing you want to know is probably, how to die ... Ehr, I mean, dodge and resist damage sleepy.gif

To Dodge in ranged combat, you only use
CODE
Reaction (5 dice)

The Dodge Skill or Gymnastics is only used, when using an action to dodge.
If the attacker has less successes, then you, he doesnīt hit at all, otherwise, the damage (DV) is increased by 1 / netto hit.

For damage resistance, you roll
CODE
Body 4 + Ballistics 8 + attacks AP (-1) = 11 dice

Each hit reduces the damage by 1 box.
If the Armor (AP applyed) had been higher then the DV to resist (base + net-hits), the damage would have been converted to stun (sadly, this is not the case).
Dranem
Drone Combat:
The drones are going for fire across the bikes trying to do as much damage as possible. The 3 on-comming will probably get the brunt of the attacks, with the following bullets leading along the line of bikes.

Each drone is smartlinked, but electrode's not rig-controlling any of them, so we're relying on their pilors and autosofts to fire...

Drone 1 firing Remington 990 w/ Flechettes (9P/+2) SA fire mode
CODE
Pilot (3) + Targeting (3) = 6 dice
2 [5] 4 2 [6] 3 Hits:2

CODE
Pilot (3) + Targeting (3) + Recoil (-1) = 5 dice
3 2 [5] [6] [5] Hits:3


Drone 2 firing AK 97 w/ regular bullets (6P/-1) laying down cover fire
CODE
Pilot (3) + Targeting (3) = 6 dice
[6] [6] 4 [5] 1 2 Hits:3


For my VR Attack run, my Sprite and I are going to hack those commlinks:
CODE
Hacking (2) + Exploit (3) = 5 dice
1 [5] [5] [5] 2 Hits:3

Treading the form to crack the firewall:
CODE
Resonance (3) + Exploit (3) = 6 dice
1 4 2 [6] [6] [6] Hits:3

Resist Fading:
CODE
Willpower (3) + Resonance (3) = 6 dice
[5] 1 3 [5] 1 1 Hits:2 Glitch!

Ouch, make that a 3 point headache.....

My Sprite Attacks the other commlink:
CODE
Hacking (3) + Exploit (3) = 6 dice
[6] 3 [5] [6] 2 2 Hits:3

and it doesn't look like she succeeds.
MK Ultra
@ TG & GM
Since the Spirits are materialized, shouldnīt we be abled to see, what kind they are on a casual look? This would be interesting!

Following gare the attack-rolles of the Spirit of Man and the 3 Watchers against the Spirit attacking Shade. All of them will hold thair action, to attack at the same Init Score (I wonīt bother to roll Ini for all the Watchers, since the range from 2-4 is slower, then anyone else, anyway, I can roll later, if it becomes necessary).
I donīt know if Shade will allready count as a friend in combat, but if the Spirit attacks him in meele, I think he should (he will return the favour next IP), if he doesnīt yet, just ignote the last die rolled.

Bean (Watcher #1)
CODE
Will (1) + Astral Combat (1) + Friends in Combat (4) = 6 dice
[5] 4 4 2 2 1 Hits:1

Thatīs probably no hit, if it is, the base is 1S (so, max. 2s, if it hits)

Peanut (Watcher #2)
CODE
Will (1) + Astral Combat (1) + Friends in Combat (4) = 6 dice
[5] 1 [5] [5] [5] 4 Hits:4

Wow, that looks much better, base 1S (max. 5S)

Pumpkin (Watcher #3)
CODE
Will (1) + Astral Combat (1) + Friends in Combat (4) = 6 dice
1 3 [6] [5] 3 3 Hits:2

may hit, base 1S (max. 3S)

Grandpa (F2 Spirit of Man)
CODE
Will (2) + Astral Combat (2) + Friends in Combat (4) = 8 dice
[6] [6] 1 [6] 3 4 [5] 2 Hits:4

Yay, base 1S again (max. 5S)

Mass instead of class, thats gang-style biggrin.gif. So, this might actually do some damage, at least it should distract the Spirit. Shade counting for FiC or not, doesnīt metter, with these rolls.
The spirit allso gets a -1 malus to Parry for each subsequent attack after the first, it dodges, right?
TinkerGnome
I'm working on it. Geeze, life is conspiring against getting anything done. I think I still need two more doberman attacks, but I'm not sure.
MK Ultra
@ GM & TG

IIRC, Steels Dobermans are inside the HQ (and not even armed), so only Electrodes Attack.
But thinking about it, what happend to Steels Roto-Drone, Mister?

EDIT:
BTW, is commanding spirits a free, simple or complex action? It was simple (for the equivalent of unbound) in SR3, but I cnaīt find it in SR4.

EDIT 2:
Thanks, Thanee, your right, itīs on p. 169 smile.gif
Mister Juan
sarcastic.gif I dunno...... Lets just forget about it and move along wink.gif
Thanee
Simple - all the actions are at the beginning of the magic chapter IIRC.

Bye
Thanee
Mister Juan
@TG
By the way, did you get my PM? I was offering you my services as assistant GM to run the game.
DireRadiant
To get through the combat turns faster, we need to maybe plan ahead the actions to get the rolls in, so TG can tell us the resolution of the important points, and then we can post and act accordingly.

e.g. China Doll in subsequent combat turns is going tomove from the lounge to her bike in the auditorium, meanwhile working out how to get her team together for the run with the Felix's package. This will take a couple combat turns, and the only thing that matters is whether or not the trolls make it through the front doors.

For some other PC there is a lot more resoluton to go through, especially all the exchanges of fire, and it might help to do something like PC X fires a short burst from cover on the roof until PC X takes a wound and then PC X runs.

Until then, there may be pages and pages of flashbacks to sunnier days in the gang.
Rokur
Ok then... if this is how we would want it....Here are Auran's actions for IP 2.... if wounded over 6P of damage, then she will spend her edge to go ASAP during IP2..., fire twice and start moving away from the windows.....

Auran's second IP action =
Free Action = Call shot Increase DV by 4
Simple Action 1 = Firing with right Ruger again @ AK guy (if standing).
CODE
Revolvers (6) + Agility (8) + Home Ground (2) + Laser Sight (1) + Firing From Cover (-1) + Called Shot (-4) = 12 dice
4,[5],[5],4,4,1,[5],[5],[6],3,1,4 = 5 hits

That is base 10S(e) -half Impact AP....

Simple Action 2 = Firing with left ruger again @ AK guy(if standing).
CODE
Revolvers (6) + Agility (8) + Home Ground (2) + Laser Sight (1) + Firing from cover (-1) + unmodified recoil (-1) = 15 dice
1,[5],1,[5],1,2,2,[6],[5],4,2,1,[5],[5], 2 = 6 hits

That is base 6S(e) -half Impact AP

Also, if the AK guy falls any non-shielded mages next, then wounded mages target 3....

Also, don't forget that shooting electric ammo can cause siezure-like stunning effects (taser effect.) We'll take any bonus we can get at this point
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (MK Ultra)
@ Wounded Ronin (again nyahnyah.gif)

The next thing you want to know is probably, how to die ... Ehr, I mean, dodge and resist damage sleepy.gif

To Dodge in ranged combat, you only use
CODE
Reaction (5 dice)

The Dodge Skill or Gymnastics is only used, when using an action to dodge.
If the attacker has less successes, then you, he doesnīt hit at all, otherwise, the damage (DV) is increased by 1 / netto hit.

For damage resistance, you roll
CODE
Body 4 + Ballistics 8 + attacks AP (-1) = 11 dice

Each hit reduces the damage by 1 box.
If the Armor (AP applyed) had been higher then the DV to resist (base + net-hits), the damage would have been converted to stun (sadly, this is not the case).

Thanks for keeping me covered! I'll make those dice rolls that you recommended.

Dodge test, 5 dice:
CODE

3
1
4
4
5


Looks like 1 hit. I dunno if that lets me bend backwards like Neo or not so I'll go ahead and roll damage resistance, 11 dice as you specified.

CODE

1
6
3
4
2
1
2
1
2
5
6


I see 3 hits. Should I use edge?

Thanks for all the help!
Rokur
Ok... edge would be your call but right now, you're taking 8 physical damage from that first shot... also you have to roll dodge and resistance for the second shot as well....

If you used edge on your reaction test, I'd suggest spending one edge to roll your edge attribute, and explode your 6s.... then you subtract however many hits you get from the 8P damage already... if you get 3 more hits on reaction then you negate the attack (grazing shot)

On the damage resistance, you can spend edge to reroll misses or roll your edge attribute. (you can only explode 6s after rolls where you roll edge attribute, not on re-roll of misses) each hit again lowers said 8P damage by 1 per hit.... also, both of these edge uses would be cumulative, but that is your call on how much edge to spent... IIRC you have 5 left as of now....

Important reminder: Whatever you do, you also have to roll reaction and damage resistance again... unfortunately you got shot twice by an AK.....
MK Ultra
So, Vegas asked me, to tell everyone, that she canīt be online, for a while, but she tryes to get back here ASAP. Her actions for this round are allready set, so we donīt have to wait.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Rokur)
Ok... edge would be your call but right now, you're taking 8 physical damage from that first shot... also you have to roll dodge and resistance for the second shot as well....

If you used edge on your reaction test, I'd suggest spending one edge to roll your edge attribute, and explode your 6s.... then you subtract however many hits you get from the 8P damage already... if you get 3 more hits on reaction then you negate the attack (grazing shot)

On the damage resistance, you can spend edge to reroll misses or roll your edge attribute. (you can only explode 6s after rolls where you roll edge attribute, not on re-roll of misses) each hit again lowers said 8P damage by 1 per hit.... also, both of these edge uses would be cumulative, but that is your call on how much edge to spent... IIRC you have 5 left as of now....

Important reminder: Whatever you do, you also have to roll reaction and damage resistance again... unfortunately you got shot twice by an AK.....

OK, so I probably should use edge.

I can use edge once per roll, once for the dodge and once for the damage resist? Is that correct?

And if so, given that I have 5 edge left so far, how many dice shall I roll in order to do this? 5 and then 4?
MK Ultra
nope, 6 every time.
Thanee
Hmm... maybe I should change Raven's action after all and have her improve her Reflexes, so it won't be such a long wait between actions with so many combatants. biggrin.gif

Bye
Thanee
Kartijan
Rolling for First Aid on Wyrm when she has trouble with that Comm, grunts and upon glancing at her Nurse sees blood coming out of her girl's nose (due to the fact the gunfire is still at/from Trolls still being outside, Nurse is putting priority on keeping Wyrm alive after all):

CODE

Logic (5)  + First Aid (3) + Medkit rating 4 (4)  + Home Ground (2) = 14  Dice
[5] 4 4 2 2 [5] 1 [5] [5] [5] 1 3 [6] [5] Hits:7

Thanee
Ok, I decided to change Raven's action to casting Increase Reflexes, which seems a lot more useful right now. smile.gif

Rolls

Bye
Thanee

TinkerGnome
Geeze, that's a lot of combat. More is up and we're well into pass 2. Please, everyone, read back through it and make sure you don't need to resist damage that you haven't already resisted. Also, if everyone could please put up actions on the IP list that'd really help me out.
Mister Juan
@TG
I will say again, did you get my PM?
Mister Juan
Fire Elemental's Astral Combat rolls
CODE
Pool: 12 dices
Rolls: 1 [5] [5] 4 1 [6] 3 3 2 1 2 [5]
Hits: 4
Astral DV: 3S
Thanee
Hey TG!

QUOTE
Raven cast about for a target not in sight of the mages, but didn't find one. In the end, she just picked one and cast the spell at him. Protected by the trollish mages, it didn't take hold.


Heh. I actually had decided to change Raven's action, after all (see above).

My post above and the change I did to the Wiki page obviously didn't reach you in time. But would be nice, if you could still consider them. smile.gif

Bye
Thanee
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (Mister Juan)
@TG
I will say again, did you get my PM?

Yeah, sorry. Meant to reply to that. I'll take you up on the offer as soon as it's possible to share the duties. You might want to remind me again if/when the group splits up a bit. For this combat, the main thing I need is to know what everyone is doing so I'm not running quite so many characters at once.
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (Mister Juan)
Fire Elemental's Astral Combat rolls
CODE
Pool: 12 dices
Rolls: 1 [5] [5] 4 1 [6] 3 3 2 1 2 [5]
Hits: 4
Astral DV: 3S

Hmm... I could have sworm you said the elemental was force 5. With that DV, it's either a 5 or 6, I guess, so it looks like you didn't roll enough dice to attack. It was fighting the elemental on the roof, right? You'll have a +4 for friends in melee because of the watcher swarm and the spirit of man.
Rokur
damn... hmm... noone declared any counterspelling?

Resist Spell: first stunbolt
CODE
Willpower (2)
1,4 = 0hits 1 glitch

spell hits

Resist 7S -
CODE
Willpower (2)
[5],4 = 1hits

hit for 6S damage

Resist Spell: Second stunbolt
CODE
Willpower (2)
3,[5] = 1hit

spell hits

Resist 9S
CODE
Willpower (2)
1,[6] = 1hit 1 glitch

hit again for 8S

Auran takes a total of 9S and 5P overflow.... and she's unconscious.... (I guess an eye for an eye huh??)

edit: do you allow dead man's trigger???? if so... i'd love to invoke it.

Edit 2: Also, I believe the wiki read that felix's spirits and Tao Fighter's spirits of man were fighting the two different spirits?
Mister Juan
It's a Force 6 Fire Elemental wink.gif I remember quite well because that was the highest force Felix could conjure up.

As for the number of dices, you are quite right. I forgot the friends in melee thing. So he should roll 16 dices total (astral combat + force + 4).

Here are the other 4 dices.
CODE
4 [6] 4 2
Hits: 1


So thats a total of 5 hits.
Mister Juan
QUOTE (Rokur)
damn... hmm... noone declared any counterspelling?

Well, Auran isn't in LOS of any of the three mages in the gang.... and I think only Felix can counterspell sarcastic.gif
Thanee
QUOTE (Rokur @ May 2 2006, 08:23 PM)
damn... hmm... noone declared any counterspelling?

There's the problem with Line of Sight... if Felix is near you, then he probably has you covered.

Not sure, if TF has any, but Raven does not have Counterspelling, otherwise she would have moved into a position to use it, instead of hiding where she is. smile.gif

Bye
Thanee
Mister Juan
@Thanee
Which makes me think... what is your air spirit up to?
Thanee
I think I commanded it to protect me, IIRC.

To give it another command would be an action, which Raven does not have.

QUOTE
As it's clear, that the trolls are headed here, Raven calls the spirit to her side, whom she had summoned earlier, to help her in the upcoming confrontation. The spirit manifests next to her, but stays on the astral for now.


I removed a service for this, though I didn't really specify a service here... I did intend to have the spirit stay close at this point, though, to attack trolls that come too close (i.e. inside the building).

Bye
Thanee
Mister Juan
QUOTE (Rokur)
Edit 2: Also, I believe the wiki read that felix's spirits and Tao Fighter's spirits of man were fighting the two different spirits?

It was my impression also, which I why I haddn't rolled any friends in melee bonus. But I didn't double check wink.gif The GM says jump, I jump.
TinkerGnome
I thought they were all fighting the spirit on the roof, which I now see is wrong. Thus, it's Aziz rather than Shade that's looking at the engulf. Fixing the IC now.
Rokur
TG.... you can ignore the Dead Man's trigger... it's a long shot... and not worth it really anyway....
MK Ultra
@ TG & GM

1st I posted somwhere long ago (and on the wiki as well) that TFīs spirits will attack the spirit approaching Shade and Auran, not the one on the roof. Tag even announced over com, that heīll take the roof and I should take the other frown.gif

2nd you probably did, but Iīll ask anyway. Did you account for the Errata, when calculating these spirits reaction score? Itīs not F * X, but F + X for all spirits (Ini allso changes accordingly). Allso, does the spirit get -1 die for every subsequent attack, it parries simultaneously, or does that only apply to full dodge/parry?

3rd here are the parry and resistance for the Spirit and Shade.

Gramga (F2 Spirit of Man) Passive Parry
CODE
Willpower (2) + Astral Combat (2) = 4 dice
[5] 4 4 2 Hits:1

2 hits come through, so itīs 5(S or P?) to resist. BTW, as you expressed some insecurety, what the base DV should be, itīs F/2 in astral combat.
Grampa saying 'Owah'
CODE
Astral Body (2) = 2 dice
2 [5] Hits:1

So that leaves 4 (S or P?)

Shade using passive parry (donīt think, that Tai Chi Spec applies to parry, if it dos, Iīll roll it afterwards)
CODE
Reaction (5) + Unarmed (5) + Home Ground (2) = 12 dice
1 [5] [5] [5] 1 3 [6] [5] 3 [6] [6] 1 Hits:7

Engulf evaded. So the Spec isnīt needed anymore, still interesting (could become a critical success, then).
If Shade is not attacked, then ignore this fabulous roll sarcastic.gif
Thanee
QUOTE
Shade using passive parry (donīt think, that Tai Chi Spec applies to parry, if it dos, Iīll roll it afterwards)


Nah, there is a Parrying specialization for that. I think the other ones are only for attack rolls with specific weapons.

Bye
Thanee
DireRadiant
Should we add declared actions to the wiki scratchpad?

Example
MK Ultra
OK, in IP2, Shade will target one of the trolls, that are in meele with the drones, at the door. But he tries to stay in partial cover.

Free: Calling Shot
1st Simple:
1st Revolver, Called shot DV +4, staying in partial cover
CODE
Agility (5) + Pistols (1) + Revolver (2) + Home Ground (2) + Laser Sight (1) + Other mods (-5) = 6 dice
4 2 2 [5] [5] 4 Hits:2

2 hits with 10P/-2

2nd Simple:
2nd Revolver, Off-Hand
CODE
Agility (5) + Pistols (1) + Revolver (2) + Home Ground (2) + Laser Sight (1) + Other mods (-3) = 8 dice
[6] [6] 2 [5] [6] 2 4 1 Hits:4

4 hits with 6P/-2
MK Ultra
2nd IP for the Spirits

Grampas Passive Parry
CODE
Willpowe (2) + Astral Combat (2) + Damage (-1) = 3 dice
[6] [5] 1 Hits:2

2 hits, so still 4 boxes to resist
CODE
Astral Bady (2) = 2 dice
4 1 Hits:0 Critical Glitch!

Uh, what dos that mean? At least 4 boxes of damage more

So here are the attacks (think they would be before the other spirits attack, as in the 1st IP)
Bean (Watcher #1)
CODE
Willpowe (1) + Astral Combat (1) + Friends in Combat (3) = 5 dice
1 [5] 2 1 2 Hits:1

thats 1 hit with base DV 1S
Peanut (Watcher #2)
CODE
Willpowe (1) + Astral Combat (1) + Friends in Combat (3) = 5 dice
3 2 [6] [6] 3 Hits:2

2 hits with 1S base
Pumpkin (Watcher #3)
CODE
Willpowe (1) + Astral Combat (1) + Friends in Combat (3) = 5 dice
2 1 1 4 3 Hits:0


Grampa (F2 Spirit of Man)
CODE
Willpowe (2) + Astral Combat (2) + Friends in Combat (3) + Damage (-1) = 6 dice
3 [5] 2 4 2 2 Hits:1

1 hit with 1S base
Rokur
QUOTE (DireRadiant)
Should we add declared actions to the wiki scratchpad?

Example

uh.... click on the link for IP List Round 1... right above Auran's name.... it's up... some people i guess just missed it
DireRadiant
QUOTE (Rokur)
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ May 2 2006, 07:38 PM)
Should we add declared actions to the wiki scratchpad?

Example

uh.... click on the link for IP List Round 1... right above Auran's name.... it's up... some people i guess just missed it

Aha, it's the click everything to find out what it is theory. Sorry I didn't notice it earlier.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Rokur)
Ok... edge would be your call but right now, you're taking 8 physical damage from that first shot... also you have to roll dodge and resistance for the second shot as well....

If you used edge on your reaction test, I'd suggest spending one edge to roll your edge attribute, and explode your 6s.... then you subtract however many hits you get from the 8P damage already... if you get 3 more hits on reaction then you negate the attack (grazing shot)

On the damage resistance, you can spend edge to reroll misses or roll your edge attribute. (you can only explode 6s after rolls where you roll edge attribute, not on re-roll of misses) each hit again lowers said 8P damage by 1 per hit.... also, both of these edge uses would be cumulative, but that is your call on how much edge to spent... IIRC you have 5 left as of now....

Important reminder: Whatever you do, you also have to roll reaction and damage resistance again... unfortunately you got shot twice by an AK.....

OK, I didn't use Edge the first time I rolled Reaction, so does that mean I can:

1.) Use Edge to re-roll failures with exploding 6s?

or

2.) Just roll 6 edge dice to subtract from boxes of damage taken?
MK Ultra
@ Wounded Ronin

when re-rolling falures, 6es donīt explode

when using extra dice (6 dice in your case) 6es explode. but if you only decide to take extra dice after the roll, only 6es from the extra dice explode.

You can use either methode on either roll, but only one edge use per roll.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (MK Ultra @ May 2 2006, 05:55 PM)
@ Wounded Ronin

when re-rolling falures, 6es donīt explode

when using extra dice (6 dice in your case) 6es explode. but if you only decide to take extra dice after the roll, only 6es from the extra dice explode.

You can use either methode on either roll, but only one edge use per roll.

Well, I guess my odds are better if I roll edge for extra dice then. Here goes.

CODE

Rolling 6 dice for edge, leaving me with 4 edge.
6
3
2
3
1
2

I rerolled the one 6, giving me a 2.



Is it just my imagination, or am I generally rolling poorly? Anyway, it looks like I'm still getting plastered pretty bad.
Rokur
these are pretty bad rolls... given the fact that you can buy auto-successes trading in 4 dice per success.... heh... but hey, you take what you're given.

Also, not to put a damper on this... but I want to remind you that you have to roll Reaction and Resistance all over again for the second shot as well....

Now when you do these, and want your edge to work overtime (which you may want to do to stay alive....)
you can add edge attribute as a "combat pool" to your dice roll.... you can spend 1 edge each on the reaction and the resistance rolls...
If you do decide to do this... all 6s rolled explode.
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