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Wounded Ronin
Hmm, are we playing using distances and such? They'd be really hard to manage in a forum format but on the other hand without distances it kind of gives an advantage to melee people if they can "automatically" engage shootey people in melee.

Thanee
Raven cannot see the invisible orc anymore. 1 hit only on the Resistance Test (needs 2 hits).

Bye
Thanee
MK Ultra
One possibility to handel range and similar situational modifires, is to have these allways accounted for in the NPC´s rolls. I.e. if JJ fires on medium distance, he does not account for the -X dice in his roll (since he doesn´t know range and it would be to complicated, to ask for all thees things), so TG could simply give a +X to the NPC´s defense. This shifts glitch possibilities a bit, but otherwise, it works good in my experiance (I used such a system, since I never rolled for defense in SR4).

@ WoundedRonin
IIRC you don´t use perception to see invisibles (only Int + Spalldefense) and thus there is no Home Ground bonus.
IMO it would be unrealistic for any ganger in seattle (even toy) to haul around an AK on a dayly basis. The sword/machet would be unrealistic for most gangers too, IMO, but not for Toy, she could as well take it along all the time, or not.
Just so you know damage and range values of Toy´s arsenal, so you can post it for TG´s conveniance.
Survival Knife: Reach 0, DV 4P/-1
Hand Blade: Reach 0, DV 5P/0
Sword/Machet: Reach 1, DV 6P/0
Streetline Special: Singel Shot, DV 6P/+2, 6©, 7 Flechette (chamber loaded, clip full)
AK-97: SA/BF/FA, DV 6P/-1, 38©, RC 5 (stock, shockpad, gas vent), +1 Laser

You see, against unarmored targets a singel shot from a flechette loaded holdout is now as readly, as one from a regular loaded assault rifle (I love SR4 holdouts!)

EDIT: oh, and for resistance, your Camouflage Suite has Balistics 8 and Impact 6.
Thanee
The Air Spirit will shoot a lightning bolt (Elemental Attack) against the orc with the shotgun.

3 hits with a base DV of 4S (electricity; see page 154).

Resisted with half impact armor.

Bye
Thanee
Thanee
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
That's just sad, Cammy sees this guy. Maybe it's the cybernetic eyes.


QUOTE (Voorhees)
I can see you... I think!


You would need 2 hits (more hits than the 1 hit, the orc got), but you should have 3 more dice from Felix' Counterspelling.

Bye
Thanee
Fresno Bob
Yeah, I know now.
Thanee
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
Now, I noticed that some people are rolling Intuition to see if they can see the invisible opponent or not. I don't know if it's appropriate for me to do so but I'll make the roll here so that we can save time if it is needed.

Everyone who could see the orc can roll a Resistance Test against the illusion spell.

Perception skill doesn't help there, Resistance against physical illusions is Intuition + Counterspelling and you need *more* hits than the spellcaster. Since TR doesn't really benefit from Felix' Counterspelling, only your Intuition dice count, and the 1 hit isn't enough to beat the orc's roll, so she won't see him.

Bye
Thanee
MK Ultra
Unrelated Question
The book says, 1st Aid can´t be aplied after magical healing, but it does not say so, the other way round, so could I be healed magically (once), after I had 1st Aid (once) for the same set of wounds?
Rokur
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
Hmm, are we playing using distances and such? They'd be really hard to manage in a forum format but on the other hand without distances it kind of gives an advantage to melee people if they can "automatically" engage shootey people in melee.

QUOTE
One possibility to handel range and similar situational modifires, is to have these allways accounted for in the NPC´s rolls. I.e. if JJ fires on medium distance, he does not account for the -X dice in his roll (since he doesn´t know range and it would be to complicated, to ask for all thees things), so TG could simply give a +X to the NPC´s defense. This shifts glitch possibilities a bit, but otherwise, it works good in my experiance (I used such a system, since I never rolled for defense in SR4).


@MK You kinda missed the point, If say, I had an imaging scope on my revolver, and started shooting you from 100 yards away. The average movement rate is 10 walk, and 25 run. If we play distance rules, I would have 4 Combat Turns before you even get to me and start punching. But, if we play that we don't worry about distance, well it's a stinker.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Thanee)
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Mar 23 2006, 11:48 PM)
Now, I noticed that some people are rolling Intuition to see if they can see the invisible opponent or not.  I don't know if it's appropriate for me to do so but I'll make the roll here so that we can save time if it is needed.

Everyone who could see the orc can roll a Resistance Test against the illusion spell.

Perception skill doesn't help there, Resistance against physical illusions is Intuition + Counterspelling and you need *more* hits than the spellcaster. Since TR doesn't really benefit from Felix' Counterspelling, only your Intuition dice count, and the 1 hit isn't enough to beat the orc's roll, so she won't see him.

Bye
Thanee

Wow, you're right. I hadn't noticed that, but Physical Illusions have an arbitrarily better mechanic than all other spells where the caster doesn't need to get net hits for his spell to work, the victim needs net hits for the spell to not work. That's pretty damned weird. But the normal rules where a character needs one net hit for their spell to do anything still applies.

So if the observer and the spellcaster get an equal number of hits, the spell does nothing and the observer doesn't realize that the spell isn't real. What does that even mean?

-Frank
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (MK Ultra)
The book says, 1st Aid can´t be aplied after magical healing, but it does not say so, the other way round, so could I be healed magically (once), after I had 1st Aid (once) for the same set of wounds?

Yep, but only in that order.

Posting now, at least up to the point where Neo's turn occurs.
Mister Juan
Fight at SS
Felix
Combat Turn #2


Just thought I'd make my rolls in advance just to speed up things.

CODE
Initiative Roll:
3 2 2 [6] [6] Hits: 2
Initiative: 7


I've got a quick question: can Felix see the interior of the truck? If he can, he's going to whip up an Ignite spell on the truck's interior. If he can't, then he'll go for the tires. I know if tires can catch on fire, but I'm sure that heating them enough will make them blow up.

I'll roll once I know what the deal is wink.gif
Rokur
So, did anyone need a ride from the limo??? I can re-edit my post to wait for you guys first.... I know shade wanted one...
Silo
QUOTE (Rokur)
So, did anyone need a ride from the limo??? I can re-edit my post to wait for you guys first.... I know shade wanted one...

Yar, clinic please my good man. Seems I've been shot. grinbig.gif
Vegas
QUOTE (Silo)
Yar, clinic please my good man. Seems I've been shot.  grinbig.gif

"T'is but a flesh wound... "

Heh. No more getting shot kids. Blood is not your friend, unless you're spilling that of your enemies, then and only then is blood your friend.
Dranem
QUOTE (Rokur @ Mar 23 2006, 11:05 PM)
So, did anyone need a ride from the limo??? I can re-edit my post to wait for you guys first.... I know shade wanted one...

I'll be riding with Shade, so if you're picking us up (probably along with Slam too depending on what kind of vehicle he has), showing up to a meet with the Ancients in a limo might give us some credit that we have some pull wink.gif

Note: Wyrm doesn't have sniffing to scan for nodes, do I have to default to my skill group + attribute or can I used my Analyse complex form instead? I want to see if the Ancients have some sort of remote or other devices on scene.. hate to be suddenly caught off guard by an unexpected drone... won't help against snipers much, but any electronics I can deal with.


As for the the410Crash Wiki, at first I must say I had my reservations.. we already had a wiki for the gang and all, but I must say I'm impressed with all the work you've put into it. smile.gif
I've started on my character sheet, probably have it done by the time I'm done work this morning. I like you logo... if I were to be artistically picky, I'd say try and make the writing a little more spray paint like, but I think it's fine the way it is - specially considering you did it in Paint! (shivers at the thought of using Paint)

I'm trying out various 3d rendering options (as I'm just being to lazy to draw), if I can find a really good option, I'll let you all know and we can work on rendering each member of the gang. smile.gif My biggest stumbling block right now is models.. if I had a few hundred bucks to spare I could buy the base models and clothes from DAZ or other sites, but I don't. Clothing is the biggest stumbling block as I have found a few free body models, but I doubt you all want to look the same wearing little more than a wetsuit. wink.gif
nick012000
It's not the second combat turn yet, I have another initiative pass.

Intuition to see the orc mage:
4,[6],4=1 hit
If I get counterspelling:
4,4,1= no hits

Doesn't work. Ah well.

If I take a dose of Deepweed as my complex action for the second pass, would I be able to see the mage astrally (lacking the Assensing skill), even if I can't assense his aura?

If not, Neo's going to charge the ganger in the truck.
4 Agility + 8 Martial Arts + 2 Home Ground +2 Charging +1 Reach = 17 dice
3,4,[6],[5],[5],1,2,[6],[5],[5],2,2,4,3,1,4,[6]=7 hits
Fresno Bob
Might as well charge the truck ganger. I would imagine the deepweed wouldn't kick in immediately.
Thyme Lost
Does anyone know where there is info on the BMC Bull Dog Step Van besides the Rigger Little Black book.

I'm asking this in the OOC thread since right now I'm driving a Bull Dog and I want to know how much room is in the back.

I was going to post a thread IC asking Halo to grab my AK and Pole arm, but I don't know what the back of the Bull Dog looks like.

I know that in RLB book the Bull Dog has a Storage of 200 CF, but that is a really old book.

So, how much room in the back of the Bull Dog?
How easily can the Bull Dog handle the Armorer Shop Tools, Halo, Pole Arm and AK?


Thyme
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Thyme Lost)
Does anyone know where there is info on the BMC Bull Dog Step Van besides the Rigger Little Black book.

I'm asking this in the OOC thread since right now I'm driving a Bull Dog and I want to know how much room is in the back.

Sure. It's been in every subsequent Rigger publication as well. For example, Rigger 3 gives its specs as:

QUOTE (Rigger 3)
The Bulldog is an updated version of the standard delivery truck. It is the most common truck in the delivery business and its base model comes with concealed armor. Though everyone knows that the bulldog has "concealed" armor, only the most discerning eye can tell if it's the Standard or Security version, a mystery that has kept many packages safe that otherwise might not have been.
Similar Models: Dodge Ram, Ford F350 and the Chrysler Nissan Packer
Other Features: Folding Bench Seat, also available in a security model


QUOTE (Thyme)
I was going to post a thread IC asking Halo to grab my AK and Pole arm, but I don't know what the back of the Bull Dog looks like.

I know that in RLB book the Bull Dog has a Storage of 200 CF, but that is a really old book.


The old RBB version has a CF of 200, and the Rigger 3 version has a Cargo value of 50. But then, those Cargo numbers are nonsensical. The Citymaster only has a Cargo value of 41, and it can carry 6 people working in a mobile medical shop in the back. SR4 dropped the Cargo numbers because they didn't hold up to close examination and weren't worth the effort.

QUOTE (Thyme)


So, how much room in the back of the Bull Dog?
How easily can the Bull Dog handle the Armorer Shop Tools, Halo, Pole Arm and AK?


It's a box-style delivery van. A shop can fit in "a van" - which means that getting the Armorer Shop Tools into the back is no problem. The polearm actually takes up very little space, it's just long. And the Bulldog is certainly tall and long enough to accomodate the polearm either strapped to the ceiling or velcroed to the wall. The AK could be stashed anywhere. Since two people can use a shop while it is in a van, I would assume that Halo would have no problem fitting back there.

-Frank
Thyme Lost
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
<snip>

-Frank

Thank you.


Thyme...
Thanee
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
So if the observer and the spellcaster get an equal number of hits, the spell does nothing and the observer doesn't realize that the spell isn't real. What does that even mean?

I'm quite certain, that the regular spell resistance rules are overruled by the specific ones. nyahnyah.gif

Bye
Thanee
Dranem
Ok, got all the chatter up on the C410 section of RP Locations (for the record, I'm not the one who typoed 450, not sure where that comes from.)

I hope you don't mind, but I took a little artistic liberty to modify the posts so that they look like an IRC log. No information has actually changed, just that each line is time-stamped. Each post is seperated by a blank line, and we'll put a physical line between dates to get the logs seperate...

If no one agrees with this, let me know and we can go back to the previous page before I did all the juggling around.

[edit]
General format rules for channel:
[00:00:00] C410: UserName "This is a general chat line."
[00:00:00] C410: <System response to commands come through like this>
[00:00:00] C410: <<Send command to chanbot>>
[00:00:00] /command (this is for user inputed command)
Thanee
Air Spirit Defense against the shotgun blasts...

QUOTE
#1: 3 hits, #2: 2 hits - 9P/+2


#1 4 hits -> attack misses
#2 3 hits -> attack misses

That was still the 1st IP, I assume?

Bye
Thanee
Thanee
QUOTE (TinkerGnome @ Mar 24 2006, 03:10 AM)
Posting now, at least up to the point where Neo's turn occurs.


If we are in the 2nd IP already, the spirit was blasting at the shotgun ganger on initiative count 14 (action declaration for the 2nd IP is already up on the wiki), but can also do it now (only havn't posted anything about the attack to the IC, since I'm not sure where we currently are initiative-wise).

Bye
Thanee
MK Ultra
QUOTE (Dranem @ Mar 23 2006, 11:25 PM)
I'll be riding with Shade, so if you're picking us up (probably along with Slam too depending on what kind of vehicle he has), showing up to a meet with the Ancients in a limo might give us some credit that we have some pull wink.gif

I´d rather think, Slam would take his bike. He probably has one. No sense in stuffing the whole party into one vehicle, even though they would fit.

EDIT: Arrrrrrr sarcastic.gif

EDIT 2: Ah the typo with the gang chanal is my fault, sorry. But we could easily copy-paste the contant to a new page and re-link it on the main page, couldn´t we?
Tashio
2by4 needs a ride from HQ if there is space? Sorry for slow posting work is nuts at the moment.
MK Ultra
Well, I guess hes with the Nightsky then, too. I´ll edit him into my post.
Tashio
*chuckle* as long as you can fit a larger large troll into it smile.gif
Example smile.gif
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (Thanee)
QUOTE (TinkerGnome @ Mar 24 2006, 03:10 AM)
Posting now, at least up to the point where Neo's turn occurs.


If we are in the 2nd IP already, the spirit was blasting at the shotgun ganger on initiative count 14 (action declaration for the 2nd IP is already up on the wiki), but can also do it now (only havn't posted anything about the attack to the IC, since I'm not sure where we currently are initiative-wise).

My bad, I didn't have the delaying action rules right in my head. Too much time spent playing DnD.

Anyway, everyone collect the actions up to the wiki like before and I'll post ASAP.
DireRadiant
@Dranem BronzeWyrm is subscribed to China Dolls bike, which is en route to rendezvous with the people heading to the "meet". You may want to take a look at the available sensor options on the bike.
MK Ultra
QUOTE (Tashio)
*chuckle* as long as you can fit a larger large troll into it smile.gif
Example smile.gif

Yea, he will be really cramped in, as I posted IC, but SR fiction has a long tradition of squeezing Troll into vehicles, even normal cars, not only limousines. Thus I expect SR-cars (at least the bigger ones) to be designed to cramp in a troll, if necessary, even if its very uncomfortable.

@ GM
I´d like to change TF´s sword (which wasn´t mentioned IC yet) into a Gieh Bian, a chinese steel whip. It is a metal chain of ~2m lenth, with a handel on one end and a sharp blade with nasty points on the other.
The SR3 Cannon Companion had rules for a Morningstar (Conceal 4, Reach +2, (St+2)M Phys., 250 nuyen.gif ). This would be Reach +2 and ((St/2)+3)P/AP 0 in SR4 (DV similar to a Sword). The Gieh Bian would be slightly more concealable (~like a pistol), but subject to the glitch rules of Whips (damaging self on a glitch). It would use the Whipe-Skill. I´d give it a price of 350.
Thus it will be similar to the Sword in power, but gaining more concealability and reach in excange for a less usefull skill and more dagerous glitches. Would that be ok?
I´d allso like to have a heavy steal JoJo with some bludgeoning copobility. I want to get one with shock-damage later, but I guess, this won´t be available at the start, maybe Thyn can build something like this.
Tashio
+3 damage for a whip like action it a little bit high even with a blade on the end. Morning star is nothing remotely like a whip. ((S/2)+1)P/AP 0. Whips do not carry alot of force, they are designed to trap more than deal damage. To deal sword like damage and have +2 range is crazy.

My call would actually be (Str/3)+1 P +1AP but there is nothing to compare a whip too. The only whip in the game has a fixed damage.
MK Ultra
Hm, well its a steel chain with a blade. Other systems give it a similar damage as short swords (granted, many RPG systems are unrealistc on weapons).

EDIT: Consider, that you don´t do axe-like choping with a sword either, but rather use the ~10 cm of the tip, to slice your enemy. The higher damage compared to a knife is due to more leverage. The steel whip is basically a bad knife with much more leverage. Due to the chain it is harder to use, which is represented by the less broad whip skill (that is also not included in close combat) and the dangerous glitching.
Tashio
Yea, I recon ((Str/2)+1)P / AV 0 Reach +2 is more than fair. Conceal 5/6 Depending on what exactly the chain is, if its bulky 5 if its pretty slim 6. Cost its not exactly a very common sort of weapon, 90% of the time custom made, I'd say cost more 650-750. Avail 5R, not exactly common and doubt there is much of a use for them outside of combat so Restricted.
MK Ultra
Well, I´d say, it should at least have (St/2)+2 P/AP 0, the price is another issue, maby 350 is not enough (I used the mornigstars 250 as a base, which is in no way common, as well), but it won´t be custom work in china, either.
TinkerGnome
A point of clarification on astral perception and assensing. When you are astrally percieving, you use your perception + intuition as per normal to notice things. Assensing is only used to read auras and magical/emotional signatures (either on items or left behind my spells).

On the whip, I agree that the initial stats are crazy. They're as good/better than the pole arm, which requires a special skill to use. I'd go for reach 2, STR/2+1 damage, -1 AP. That supposes you can deliver pretty much a blow from a survival knife at range with it. At that level, it'd be fairly concealable.

You know, looking at melee weapon stats, I have no clue why anyone would use a pole arm over a combat axe. -1 AP vs. 2 DV just don't compare. Then you have to take a special skill to use it.

[EDIT]Looking through the improvised weapons chart, I see that whips and chains take exotic melee skills. If you want to go the exotic melee skill route, I don't have a problem with R2 (STR/2+2) AP0.
nick012000
Umm... shouldn't the people who see him summon the spirit on the physical make a perception test (6-Force) to notice the magic use, +2 dice if Awakened?

Technically, the astrally percieving folks should have to make the test as well, but given that a spirit just appeared on the Astral, it'll probably be fairly obvious what he just did.

In any case...
CODE

Intuition 3 + Astrally Percieving 2 + Awakened 2
[5],[5],3,2,[5],[5],[6]


Neo will be able to see him summoning it, anyway. Now why couldn't I have just rolled that for my initiative... ohplease.gif
TinkerGnome
Well, I figured that one of the astrally percieving characters (Neo included) would inform the group so I didn't bother calling for the roll wink.gif
MK Ultra
Well, WE don´t use a combat ax here, because the availability is too high, but I agree with you in general SR4.

About the chain whip. I think it´s enormously underastimated, look at club versus nun-chaku, i.e. (in rl at least, don´t know how it is in SR), you can generate much more power with flexible weapons, and its not even that hard to hit someone, the only problem is the higher risk to injur your self or your friends.
If you propose these stats for game-balance reasons (though I still think, the special skill and dangerous glitch are balancing enough), I´d conseed with it, since my reason for the change is mostly a style.
But comparing it to a polearm, you´d excange consealability vs. DV -1, AP -1 AND dangerous glitch!
Also, the rules for damaging oneself on a glitch are harder under our house rules (monowhip is entangled/stuck on glitch and does damage to wielder on critical glitch).

How about the steel JoJo?

EDIT: Ah, ok, if you had not considert it exotic skill, than the balance issu made sense. I´d consider it exotic mele weapon: whips & chains.

On the Perseption from the astral. This would mean, that Watchers can´t perceive (Intuition 1, Perseption untrained = dice pool 0). I´d be ok with it, if watchers get a Perseption skill 1.
TinkerGnome
Well, you don't have to roll perception to see the obvious. Only if something is hidden would you use it. I guess I wasn't clear.

Seeing on the astral is just like seeing in the physical (though modifiers tend to be different). If you need to notice something hidden, you use perception rather than assensing.
MK Ultra
Ah, ok, then delete the 2 last results from the general astral spotting, which are Watcher-Team-Bonus. Well, Then I´d have to read up on the Search-power rules frown.gif

What about the price of the steel whip, would 350 be ok? Since its a Focus it is costom to some extend, which should be included in the focus cost.

EDIT: just read the search rules (extended 5, 10 minutes), to long for this situation anyway, but it would mean, that watchers cant use thair searchpower (except in Teamwork, maybe) at all, with our house rule on extended tests! frown.gif
Silo
What sort of "hand cannon" puts a hole in a Stuffer Shack?
HeySparky
Why, the kind we're soon to have, Silo! biggrin.gif

Say, meant to say thanks to you JJ, because I've stolen a lot of your ideas for the character sheet templates.

Silo
QUOTE (ES_Sparky)
Why, the kind we're soon to have, Silo! biggrin.gif

Say, meant to say thanks to you JJ, because I've stolen a lot of your ideas for the character sheet templates.

I want the Nissan.

Of course, sounds like it is going to need some work after Felix finishes with it. rotfl.gif
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (Silo)
What sort of "hand cannon" puts a hole in a Stuffer Shack?

A warhawk loading ex-ex. 8P/-4
Fresno Bob
Wow. I am... so glad he missed.
Rokur
basically reposted a modified version of my old spoiled post.... (can't figure out how to delete it)

I left it fairly open-ended so that people can go ahead and write themselves into it, especially for rides there. I've also just left my "scouting" fairly open-ended as well, and I'll write my reactions for finding nothing later.

Also @ MK
I had to re-edit some of our "dialogue" since some of the other company is present.
Rokur
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)

A warhawk loading ex-ex. 8P/-4

ow.... I think I like EX/EX... even more than the APDS
Silo
I have to share this. Video of an autocopter fitted with a fully auto 12 guage shotgun. Fun stuff.



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3...78&q=autocopter
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