Talk talk talk talk talk....

I just want to post IC... tell me when, tell me how, tell me soon.

I'd like to do combat, that said I'm down and currently 0 actions, but I'd like to see the combat finished.... but honestly I like the way combat works with TG

Sorry Rat - I LIKE having the OOC info per shot right next to the description, I think it's a LOT cleaner then putting it in either an OOC or a wiki, for me it gives me a rather theatrical view of how well the shooters are shooting at us, knowing hot many hits they got you could imagine him pulling off a sharpshooter shot, or other such nonsense in your head. It's a lot more fun in my eyes than, X shot at you, Y shot at him, Z shot at 3, and you shot back... but if TG could go back to spoiling them that would be cool (I guess with so many it's kinda hard without it looking like a HUMUNGO post)

Everyone has to learn the system for our first combat. TG has a good system with declared actions with our hits and base DV next to it on the wiki, we all make little "action cameos" of our chars taking said action on the IC, and he tells us what the results look like visually on the IC when he posts later.... it's a good system. It lets us post, roll our OOC stuff, and gives TG a clean 1 page view of what he has to do.

Obviously the post rate and use of this system may be hard for some players to grasp at first, and thus I think is why combat was going rather slowly at first (we still have holes in the wiki declared action pages... thus marking TG's stops).... but once this system is down to a true "system" this should make things roll smoothly.

I think this is possibly the cleanest board combat system I've ever been in. For a full detailed combat I have to look at 2 sites... the wiki for the declared actions, and the IC for the results and enemy actions. AND THIS IS A COMBAT OF roughly 30 COMBATANTS! having to look on two windows without scrolling up or down to have a full picture of a 30 combatant royal rumble massacre is AWESOME! I don't wanna jump around from the declared action page, or a huge list of declared actions on an OOC list spanning pages (cuz 24 posts is one page... and 24 actions/posts is not a lot for this group) to another IC page to check results, and then go BACK to another OOC page containing the results of enemy shots. I think that would make it worse... and much much messier.

In a nutshell - I know most people are getting tired of talking - so ignore everything else and read thisL:
PLEASE DON'T CHANGE OUR COMBAT SYSTEM!!!

In the last several OOC posts there have been numerous people wanting to stop discussing so we can 'get on with posting IC', is the general sentiment.

What I do not understand is where the link is being drawn between discussing these various issues and the stoppage in play. The stoppage in IC posting is because Tinkergnome has not ruled yet whether to proceed in narrative, normal, semi-narrative, etc., not because of our discussion of these issues.

If we can't move forward whether we discuss these issues or not, then why would we not discuss them?

Our options are not: play IC or discuss.

Our options are: discuss or sit and do nothing.

If those are our choices I fail to see the logic of not discussing now, while we wait for Tinkergnome.

Rokur - Thanks for your disagreement! That is what we need to come to a quicker resolution: people's honest thoughts and reasons so TG can take it all in when he comes back and come to a decision that takes all of our feelings into account, not just a few peoples. Much appreciated!

I like combat. That is why I play games. When I want to develop characters, I write fiction.

Of course, neither of those are mutually exclusive.

Ok, as it looks, ES_Sparky is the only one, who would prefer to stop IC, while we discuss meta-issues. If there is anyone else, please voice your opinion. Otherwise, I hope you are ok with us proceding, while we discuss this further, ES_Sparky.

@ TG, GM & ALL

Now, how to proceed? I tried to put together the votes, that where cast, by now (please correctme, if I´m wrong!):

Regular Combat 6:
DireRadiant, ES_Sparky, Rokur, Silo, WinterRat1, WoondedRonin

Narative 6 (+1*):
Dranem, Halo, Mister Juan, Thanee, Voorhees
MK Ultra (though I´d prefer a mix)

Undecided 2:
Kartijan, Nick

*Tinker Gnome at least you stated you liked that solution for a number of reasons.

So if anyone changed their vote (or I interpreted/remembered it wrong) please correct it ASAP.

We have preatty much a tie. Now it´s TG to decide, what to do.

EDIT:
I think I´m with Rokur, for the discussion about Combat-Resolution.

I see a lot of posts and I think I get the general idea of it from just skimming the last few posts. Let's try to play out the rest of the combat. If it really bogs down again, I may decide to push ahead in a narrative fashion to preserve momentum.

Using the wiki combat scratch pad is about the only way for me to handle combat for a group this large. I am revamping the way it's done a bit (see below) in the hopes that we can move faster.

I finished out the combat round (check to see if you need to respond to anything) and posted a new round here. Read the guidelines before posting for the round.

Be sure to include things like cover in the conditions line. If it's not included you won't be getting the benefit of it. Those who have been knocked out/killed so far probably would have benefited from it. As such, anyone dead in round 1 gets a "free" hand of god (you don't have to burn the karma) but the results otherwise stand. This is because, in a tabletop environment it probably wouldn't have been missed.

I'm still learning SR4, guys, so don't expect perfection.

Sorry it looks like I missinterpreted Kartijan opinion based on our IRC talk, she actually didn´t vote yet, because she´s undecided, I´ll edit the count above

that would make it a compleat tie, 6 vs 6, Nick and Kartijan undecided. (I did think of it as a tie anyway).

JAX's attack roll...

I don't recall if our init rolls need to be recorded, but I'll post mine up here anyway, before making my adjustment to the round 2 tracking sheet for Nurse's init and mission.

Prepping for round 2 of combat (Includes +1 REA and +1 IP from Cram)

Combat Round 2

(Assuming Raven's revised action, which TG seems to have missed when resolving the last round. )

Raven's Initiative: 9 = 8 + 2 hits (last two dice don't count, because of the sustained spell) - 1 (damage) / 3 IP

Spirit's Initiative: 16 = 12 + 4 hits / 3 IP (astral)


Would someone be so nice and add them to the Wiki Scratchpad? (EDIT: done!)
I havn't yet figured out how to properly append to those tables.

Bye
Thanee

JJ's Initiative

umm do unconscious chars roll initiative??

if so:

If you're unconcious, add yourself to the list at the bottom of the page.

Also, any objections to having a simple roll-off for spirit-only fights? Each side would roll total force x2 (just force if the spirit doesn't have an action that pass) and the side with more hits deals damage equal to their total hits to the other side without any damage resistance (which is why base DV is ignored). So the F5 spirit vs. the F6 spirit would 10 vs 12 dice.

I´d be ok with that*, however, if we don´t do so, I just rolled for the 3IP or CR1

So here are the attacks for 3rd IP in the 1st round if I shouldstill roll them (think they would be before the other spirits attack, as in the 1st IP)
Bean (Watcher #1)

And here goes my Ini rolls

Ok, first of I have a question:
How does one troll break through an outward opening reinfoced metal door that's magnetically sealed in the time it takes to sneeze?!

There's no outward door lock or padlock, it's held shut through a magnetic field.. that's why maglocks are so great.

[edit]
Question 2: The AK drone was layoung suppression fire: 20 shots in a 10x2 meter spray. Those who do not take cover must roll to evade or take damage for every round they are in the field of fire. From your description I might as well be spitting paper wads that have no velocity.

Anyway, here's Wyrm's Init:

North of the Y is Main Street, West is a street and South is a street, East of the Y is a neighboring building?

What is the second floor over the main entrance made of? Full length glass, normal windows, no windows?

How much microwire did JAX bring from the garage?

How wide is the street from on the West side, across from the loading dock?

Drone 1 evades hit (this one was previously damaged)

Ahem, after editing the Wiki please check the history, to see whether you have overwritten something edited in while you were editing (just re-edited my mission/injury text, because it was gone).

Bye
Thanee

This is TF summoning his next ancastor (1S Drain or 1 Service ) in IP2 (Ini 11), if nothing frag-tacular hapens.

Drone 1 (if he still is functioning initiative)

Here is Cammy´s Ini (though she held her action since last turn, so she should get a jump on the trolls entering).

Anyway, Ini 8/1 (Held since last round)

That's a bit many dice there.

Bye
Thanee

Sure that hapens when one uses Edge without making a called shot. Or do You mean some mod´s aren´t apropriate?

I´m not totally sure about the friends in combat as I don´t controll the other two, but that was the plan, Cammy, Knives and 2b4 holding thair action, to trash any intruders, before they can act.

The dice include the 6es rerolled due to edge (4 extra dice), if you mean these.

I thought attacking s.o. from the back would warent superior position, no?
The last 4 results ([6] [5] [6] 3) are the rerolled 6es, they don´t get rerolled again.

If the troll is smart enough, to notice Cammy and turn to her in time, then Knives and/or 2by4 would have the chance, to attack the troll from the back.

The neat thing about maglocks is that they're a lock without a mechanical component. Generally there is a metal plate alongside the top of the door, and a secondary plate where the two doors connect. Once the doors touch the plate, they become nearly welded shut, being held by a magnetic field.

When you use a keycard or punch in the code on the keypad, the electricity magnetizing the plate is cut of, and the door is free to open. So the only way to 'break' a maglock is to cut the power to the door, or to hack the keypad.

Most governments offices and large corporations now use maglocks cause the lock can't be picked or hacked off.. you litterally have to break the entire door to get in.

Well, a running troll easily covers 20 meters in two seconds... Since no one has been taking range penalties to attack, I'd rather assumed we were playing fast and loose with distances. Would a 1 square meter hole really be that much less effective at penetrating a door? At least half of what remained would be free-swinging.

Augh, I cannot figure out the wiki! I will be catching up completely on the current combat situation in the IC thread and posting my rolls here later tonight.

OK, here we go, back into the swing of things!

From Combat Turn 1

Pass 1
- Nothing that directly requires me to roll; TG rolled for my shots

Pass 2
Shot 1:
Enemy Attack: 1 hit
Reaction: 01 02 02 03 05 05 05 - 3 hits
Result: Defender has 2 net hits - No damage

Shot 2:
Enemy Attack: 1 hit
Reaction: 02 03 03 03 04 05 06 - 2 hits
Result: Defender has 1 net hit - No damage

Pass 3
Enemy Stunbolt: 1 hit
Willpower: 02 03 05 – 1 hit
Result: Zero net hits by attacker – Spell does not take effect; no damage

For Combat Turn 2

Initiative Attribute: 10
Initiative Roll: 01 01 02 03 03 04 05 05 06 06: 4 hits
Total Initiative Score: 14

Pass 1:

Simple Action 1: Fire at one of the injured trolls with a combat axe by the front door
Base Agility + Revolvers: 8
Range (assumed medium, 6-20 meters): -1
Laser Sight: +1
Home Ground: +2
Attacker firing from good cover (note: I used SR 3 rules for this and divided my defensive good cover modifier of -4 by 2): -2
No Target Cover
No Visibility Modifier
No Wound Modifier
Net Dice Pool: 8 – 03 03 05 05 05 05 06 06: 6 hits! (Sweet!)

Final Result: Ruger Warhawk with Regular Ammo: Base 6P/-2AP with 6 hits.

Simple Action 2: Get down behind full cover (drop prone) and start dragging Auran toward the Lounge.

Free Action 1: Transmitting to Nurse that Auran is wounded and needs medical attention.

Pass 2

Simple Action 1: Continue dragging Auran towards the Lounge.

Simple Action 2: Continue dragging Auran towards the Lounge.

Free Action 1: Transmitting asking for Toy’s position.

Pass 3

Simple Action 1: Continue dragging Auran towards the Lounge.

Simple Action 2: Continue dragging Auran towards the Lounge.

Free Action 1: Transmitting asking for status update.

Movement Note: Assuming dragging Auran while crawling gives me a movement of 5 m/turn, I should reach the Lounge or darn close to it by the end of Pass 3. With Strength 5, Auranbeing pretty light, but having to crawl and drag her to stay at full cover, I felt a 50% movement rate was reasonable, especially since once we’re far enough away from the window Shade can get up a bit more. Let me know if you have any changes to this estimate Tinkergnome.

OK the Wiki has been updated. How do you link from the wiki back to the OOC thread? What's the code/input in the text editor?

Oh, and I posted everything in detail in the OOC thread but I only posted the results in the wiki. Hope I did that correctly, please let me know if I need to change something.

EDIT: Actually, Shade would probably know, where is Toy? Is she the 'R' in the gym balcony area?

R would be Raven.
I think it never was totaly established where Toy actually was. She's either close by on the 2nd floor, or in a totaly different building.

Toy is on the other side of the street in a building opposite the Y, AFAIK.

As for the OOC-Links. First you edit the post here (don't need to change anything) to get the URL (copy it to the clipboard (CTRL+C) by highlighting the address field (IMPORTANT! only the part AFTER the http:// i.e. if the address is 'http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?' you only copy 'forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?') in your browser).

Then you edit the page in the Wiki (stay with the visual editor), mark/highlight the text you want to place the link under (i.e. write LINK behind the post and highlight that), then click the button on the top (where the bold, italics, underline, etc buttons are) with the globe and the closed chainlink on it (left one, which has the tooltip: Add Link).

In the small window, that opens now, click the last option (External Link) and paste the address into the second field (CTRL+V after placing the cursor into it by clicking into it with your mouse --- if you forgot to remove the 'http://' from the address during copying, you can also edit it out here).

Ok, and done.

Bye
Thanee