Don't apologize at all - I'm happy to help walk you through it, and Jack is also doing a sterling job as well. Between the three of us we'll get it right, and once we do, it will speed up. I'm sure that when we do combat for the first time there might be some hiccups to smooth out, and rigging, etc. Its all good

Ok, so unfortunately you did not beat the Host's roll. So the host has a mark on you, and we now move to Matrix Combat.

Given the time frame, figure Jack had to go get the beers, come back, etc, it is probably a only a minute or two away from Paul entering the bar.

Your initiative for this turn is 4d6+8=21

The Patrol IC initiative is 4d6+8=21

And the Host launches a new form of IC at the beginning of the turn. Its initiative is

4d6+8=21


Alright, that is just weird. 3 different initiative rolls that all add up to 21?

Anyway, I'll have an IC post up in a little bit - think about what you want to do. If you want suggestions, please ask.

Frak...

Well I know I probably need to reconfigure my deck, currently at 6 S, 5 F, 5 D, 3 A, raising my Attack up, (not sure which attribute should I drop though, Data Processing perhaps?)

And change programs, currently Stealth, Signal Scrub, and Browse.

Do I need Stealth since I am marked, or Browse as I have already located the area where all the security footage will be?

Ok, so, LOTS of stuff you COULD do, not sure what the best course of action is - let me lay out some options:

1) Erase the mark that the Host has on you, and then Hide. This will make the Patrol IC have to reacquire you before the other IC can attack you. This might give you some time to Crack the File and Copy it.
2) Reconfiguring your deck takes a free action to swap any to attributes. Swapping one program out for another is a free action.
3) You could continue trying to Crack the file, hoping to Crack it and then Copy it before the IC gets to you.
4) You don't know what type of IC just emerged, a Matrix Perception test will tell you what type it is (not sure you want to waste the action though.)
5) Stealth will help you Crack the File, Editor will help you Copy/Change/Delete it.

So, this is where a Configurator program would come in real handy. Swapping programs and attributes takes a free action that you can only perform on your turn. Each free action allows you to swap two matrix attributes or programs. So to change your entire deck around is going to take a lot of actions.

So... the IC has you marked, which means it automatically spots you, no matter what you do until you erase the mark. You have a couple of options:

1) Switch Mode and Jack Out, you can try again later once the Host hopefully calms down a bit.
2) You can suck it up and try to crack the file again. It got a really lucky roll with those 5 successes. You'll be exposed to IC for three IPs: one to crack the file, one IP to copy the file, and a final IP to switch interface modes and jack out. I'm not sure how Lobo views it, but I've always read it that IC doesn't launch until the start of the Combat Turn following the security response notification, but since your failed crack happened out of combat turns, I'm not sure how that works.
3) You can try to evade the Host. With your first IP, you can try to erase the MARK. With the next IP, you can roll a Hide check to re-hide yourself. If you hide long enough, the Host would probably stand down, assuming you jacked out.

Almost all of these require you to succeed on a few tests though.

ETA: Browse just halves the time for Matrix Searches. The Editor programs gives a bonud to copy/edit/delete.

Also: When you weigh your calculations, just note that the IC are going to be rolling 8 dice against you, so you can try to assess your chances based on whatever amount of dice you're going to be rolling in defense. (Granted, it's not fullproof...)

Since it occurred out of Combat, for me I'm thinking the IC will roll initiative for this turn, but has to spend its first action to "launch" - i.e. it skips the first initiative pass.

Here is some other weird interactions with how 5e works.

Overkill's Matrix (hot sim) Initiative is 4d6 + 8

His Physical/AR Initiative is 2d6+9.

Let's say on initiative pass 1 he tries to crack the file again and succeeds. That is a complex action.

Now on IP 2 (initiative score 11) he attempts to copy the file and succeeds. That is a complecx action.

Now on IP 3 (initiative score 1) if he just jacks out, he is fine, but he suffers dumpshock (since he is in VR).

If he uses a simple action to switch from VR to AR, his initiative score drops. It would go up by 1 (since his Physical Initative bonus is 9 instead of 8 ) but then it would decrease by 2d6 - which means that as soon as he switches to AR, it reduces his score to 0 and he can't take that other simple action to Jack Out until next turn.

At first I thought it wouldn't switch until AFTER IP 3, and not in the middle of it, but if you do that, you have this weird thing where a decker with no wired or physical increases could on his IP on action round one, go into hot sim VR, and then at the beginning of the next turn roll a really high initiative, switch to AR and then shoot someone as a simple action before his initiative score dropped.

I think that's just the price one pays. It might be a better idea for him to just Crack, Edit, then erase his mark on his last IP. Then hope for a good initiative roll for the next CT.

That way, he switches to AR, the IC probably go, then he gets to take his second simple action later on in that first IP pass.

As a quick note, I've got a meeting but will be able to respond this evening (if appropriate).
-DrZ

Should I even worry about erasing the footage of us outside the club at this point, or just focus on getting what we need and getting out?

IF it is important enough to take out the footage of us, it seems like I may want to try and evade the Host, erase the Mark it has on me, and then do the Hide to fool it into thinking I jacked out. Time has been talked about as a factor though, do I have enough time before Paul arrives to do all that?

I could swap Browse for Editor, swap my Attack and Data Processing attributes (unless Data Processing is too critical to cracking/copying the file)

If time is too short I may just have to go with the Crack, Copy, Jack Out option.

Ok - good questions. Physical world time is not really an issue, in that in VR you are going to average about 3 actions per turn, and a turn is 3 seconds. Which means even if Paul shows up in 2 minutes, that is FORTY action rounds in VR- so you effectively have an infinite amount of time before Paul comes.

The reason time is a factor is that right now, there is Patrol IC and one more type of IC in the host with you. The Patrol IC can't hurt you, it can only continually look for you and spot you so that the other IC can attack you. If you are still in the host in another combat turn, another IC program will launch, and then another on the following turn (for maximum of 4, since it is a rating 4 host). Even if you kill these IC programs, it can continually launch them over and over.

Now, this is just a club, so it isn't like they are going to be launching Black IC, but they could very well try to grab your physical location, or other unpleasantness - so sticking around for a length of time in that regard is not a good idea.

Time isn't really an issue, IMO. It would be nice to have the footage from the night of the murder to review while Paul is there, but not critical. We can always converse with him while you're still mucking around the Host. The footage of us at the club is not at all a priority, just something that a team of shadowrunners would probably want to eliminate. Plus, you can always come back and try to delete it later if you want.

The only other thing I would think might be worthwhile to find would be if there are any reports or whatever related to the murder that might be contained in the Host.

Erasing the Mark is probably going to be resisted by 11 dice, so if you have a solid Computer skill to go with your 8 Logic, you should hopefully beat it.

The IC then get to go. Patrol doesn't do anything other than make Matrix Perception tests, which aren't all that helpful once you're already spotted. Whatever the other IC is is probably rolling 8 dice against whatever your defense dice are going to be (it probably also has Attack prioritized at 5, although I can't remember if a Host can change its configuration or not). So that would limit its successes and set a (relatively) low DV for matrix attacks fo the IC.

This may sound odd, but I'm glad you got caught here - in that it is a low level host, with IC that probably won't do much to you, and it allows you to get a feel for how Matrix Combat and other stuff works.

Far better than doing this for the first time in a rating 8 host!

Meh, my response got eaten. <- EDIT: Apparently not. I'll leave this up here though in case it helps.

1) Time isn't really a factor WRT Paul. We weren't really counting on you being part of the discussions with him. It would be helpful to have the footage to look at to confirm his story, but not critical.
2) The footage of us tonight is a very low priority. Just something a shadowrunner team would probably get into the good habit of doing.
3) The only other thing I can think of that might be valuable is if the Club's management prepared a report/email of the incident for Lone Star or their insurance carrier that might contain additional detail.
4) I would not suggest Jacking Out in VR. Me, I would probably try to erase the mark and hide. You resist their detection attempts with Sleaze + Logic, which are your two highest stats. Granted, the dice gods can always go against you.

So... lots of Info to process...

I think the best route would be to concentrate on Cracking and Copying the file on my first 2 IPs, then trying to Erase the Mark on me. If I succeed in erasing the mark, I can do a little more looking for valuable info. If I cannot erase the mark, I will GTFO.

Swap Browse for Edit (which will keep my Data Processing up), and swap my Data Processing (5) and Attack (3) attributes in case I need to take on the hostile IC.

Sound crazy? Let me know.

btw- Lobo, your probably right that this was a good time to not have my decking run go entirely smooth. This is stuff I am gonna need some practice with when dealing with tougher Hosts.

Ok, so let's assume on IP 1 your free action is to swap browse for edit, and to try and crack the file again.

So:

13d6.hits(5)=4

vs the host

8d6.hits(5)=3

So it is successful - you have now cracked the file.

The Patrol IC doesn't do anything in the first IP, while the other IC moves toward you (but misses the first IP.)

So should I go ahead and roll for Copying the file and assume you swap Attack and Data Processing as your free action?

Indeed, make the Copy roll.

I'm not sure I would really bother with Attack. The IC just reboots. Since this is the host for a bar, I think most of the IC is going to be the type that reduces your Matrix Attributes or Traces you, rather than blasting the Hell out of you (they probably have obnoxious hacker clientele that tries to jack with the light and music on the reg).

Since (our version of) Crack File is linked to Sleaze, keep that high. Data Processing is linked to Edit, I would keep that high too (it also affects your Matrix Initiative). The Edit program only boosts your limit for Edit actions. Your limit is currently 5, which really should be enough to beat 8 dice (barring no further ridiculous rolls from Lobo), so I don't think there is a reason to swap that program out, but it isn't a problem if you do (unless you want to search for anything else in the Host before you jack out). You might want to consider loading programs such as Sneak (helps prevent Trace actions, since a successful Trace could currently endanger the team, plus they would probably be sending Paul and my new friend to eject us) or Toolbox (bonus to Data Processing) if you want to swap something for Browse.

On IP2, you attempt to Edit the file (to copy it)

12d6.hits(5)=4

vs the host

Rating+Firewall=11d6

11d6.hits(5)=4

So you were unable to copy the file. However, since it is a Data processing action, no negative repercussions happen to you.

The New IC attacks you now:

8d6.hits(5)=2

You resist with Int + Firewall

8d6.hits(5)=4

So you successfully dodge it - dealing 2 points of damage to the IC.

How about your 3rd IP?

EDIT - I have no problem at all with you switching your free actions in lieu of Jack's advice.

I have to say, this is riveting... and I mean that honestly. Even though we're not in the action, I am on the edge of my seat with how Overkill does with this.

ETA: This might be metagaming, but I would suggest if you're going to swap anything, swap Sleaze and Firewall. You know the only IC currently on the board is targeting your Firewall. Again, that may be a bit meta without a Matrix Perception test.

Also, don't forget the possibility of taking Full Matrix Defense, you get to add your Willpower to defense rolls against [Attack] actions.

Addendum/Ruling Question: Can one take an interrupt action if their initiatve score is less than what would be required to take the interrupt action? In other words, do you have to have >=10 initiative in order to take Full Defense or does it just reduce your initiative to a negative number, eliminating your remaining IP?

So per advice, Swap Sleaze and Firewall instead of Attack and Data processing (6 F, 5 S, 5 D, 3A); and Browse for Sneak instead of Edit. (Sneak, Stealth, Signal Scrub) sensing a theme there.

If I go Full Matrix Defense does that use up my final IP for the round?

It's an interrupt action that you declare on someone else's turn, so it's more of a question of whether you can do it with an initiative score of 1 or not. I asked Lobo for clarification on that one.

It is my interpretation that you need to have at least an initiative score of 10 to do full defense, just like in combat you would need to have at least a 5 to Dodge.

You're totally correct, I just noticed where it mentions it in the book. (pg. 167) It does kind of suck if you just happen to have to use it in your last IP.

So on your final IP, you can either:

Try and COPY the File again (Remember that your OS score is still accumulating)

Try and attack the IC (not worth it in my opinion)

Erase the Mark

Something else I'm sure, but those I think are the three obvious ones.

Edited to say "COPY the file" instead of Crack - thanks Jack

I thought he cracked it successfully but needed to copy it now.

So I would need to wait until its next attack during the next turn to do that?

Would Erasing the Mark on me have any effect on the IC currently trying to pummel me?

I doubt I could knock it out with a Data Spike with my Attack down, only other option this round would seem to be to try and Copy the File again.

Edit: Didn't read above post until after finishing writing this post.

Basically what is going to happen is that on IP 3, Initiative score of 1, you are going to act, and then the IC will.

You do your action, and then when the IC goes, it will attack you again. If your Initiative Score was 10 or higher, you could declare you were doing Full Matrix Defense in response to his attack, but since your initiative score will only be 1 at that time, you are not allowed to do so.

IMHO, I think the best thing you can do is to try and Copy the File again.

It depends exactly what the IC is trying to do to you. If it is trying to damage you, then ever mark it has on you increases the amount of damage it does. Some nasty things IC does to you require a certain number of marks.

Yeah, you could go Full Matrix Defense as an interrupt action on the ICs attack next Combat Turn(CT). It lasts for the entire CT.

Depends on the IC. Some IC can't do anything to you if the Host doesn't have a MARK on you. Others do more damage if the Host has a MARK on you. For others, it doesn't do anything at all.


Probably not. Without having MARKs on it, it's usually not the easiest thing to one shot IC with a Data Spike considering the "dodge" and resistance tests.

ETA: Since there is probably going to be another type of IC coming online next Combat Turn, I would try to Copy the file again on your IP this round and hope that you roll well for initiative. Then you can downshift to AR, let the IC do what they want, and then jack out. Reboot your deck and then you can maybe try again after our conversation with Paul is over. The system may have come off alert by then.

Well I know I am gonna be in here for another turn at least, so my I will use my last IP to try and Erase the Mark. I will be going Full Matrix Defense on its next attack.

I need to double check for new posts when I am writing mine... Cause that sounds like a better idea. Can I go with another copy attempt instead and then go down to AR next turn and waiting for the system alert to drop?

Ok your copy attempt

12d6.hits(5)=4

vs Host

11d6.hits(5)=7

Now the IC attacks you

8d6.hits(5)=4

vs your Int + Firewall

9d6.hits(5)=0

Fortunately, it was Probe IC, so all it does is put another Mark on you - had that been Blaster or something else, it would NOT have been good

I will put up an IC post for this combat round. Initiatives for next round are:

Patrol IC
Probe IC
New IC#2
Overkill

4d6+8=25, 4d6+8=24, 4d6+8=22, 4d6+8=18

I would suggest not letting Lobo roll for you anymore.

ETA: Also, given his rolling, I would suggest grabbing that file and getting the hell out, ASAP. Your OS is going up really quickly.

You know, I just realized that once you grabbed the file, assuming your OS isn't at "Here I am GOD" levels, you could just Exit the Host. Then do the AR switch and log out. IC can't follow you out of the Host.

Frak...

So I guess my only route at this point is to retry copying it next round, and getting the hell out as soon as I do. Full Matrix Defense when the IC attacks me again.

Just bad rolls, bro.

Do note that, once you grab a copy of the file, you can exit the Host during your next initiative pass (asuming you haven't been linklocked). Then you can somewhat leisurely switch to AR, jack out, and reboot.

Ok - will be out for a couple of hours with my son at a cub scout meeting - will get the IC post up when I get back, along with the first IP of the IC.

Sorry you are getting really bad luck, Overkill

It happens... Drave can play it cool and make it seem like nothing was amiss.

@Overkill: Since you (well, Lobo) rolled poor initiative for Overkill, you might want to rethink the Full Matrix Defense. IF you take it, you will only have 1 IP this CT compared to the three the IC will have. If you just deal with the IC rather than defend, assuming you manage to copy the file in the first IP, you can exit the host in the 2nd IP and would only be exposed to two rounds worth of IC attacks.

Sounds like a plan.

Per the "metagame" discussion:

IMO I think the advice Jack is giving is stuff that you as a professional hacker would know off hand. So, so long as Jack has advice that is new and useful to you (the player), I don't think there's anything wrong with your Computer 6 or whatever hacker doing what seems optimal

-DrZ

Hey, I just read through 3 pages of OCC and I have to say that I find this matrix action really entertaining.

I also checked the IC posts and I'm puzzled by Overkill's message to Amy. I just want to double check if you meant that your character somehow manages to foresee that going to the los mags is what Amy is about to do, or if you mistakenly assumed that our metagame discussion translated to something Overkill knows in-game. Amy's original message only states: "I'm on my way to try to find someone who can get a read on those damn pills now." So let me know if you want to go back and change his answer to her or not. For that matter, she also (mistakenly) says that she didn't find out much from meeting her friend, and yet overkill tells her that she did well, which I also thought as a bit surprising, though not impossible.

You know you're in the Matrix part of a PbP run when the OOC to IC post ratio goes up to like 20 to 1.

Ok, so next Combat Turn.

IP 1

Patrol IC 25
Probe IC 24
New IC 22
Overkill 18

Patrol IC looks around for any of Overkill's buddies it may not have noticed.

The Probe IC attacks again.

8d6.hits(5)=1

vs Overkill

9d6.hits(5)=2

So you do a 3rd box of damage to the Probe IC

Next the new IC attacks

8d6.hits(5)=1

vs Overkill Willpower+Sleaze +2

10d6.hits (5)=3

So you do two damage to it.

Note, I realized after the fact that you should have rolled 1 less die against the Probe since it was the 2nd attack you defended against since you last went, and 2 less dice against the new IC, but as it turns out, it didn't matter, because all that did was take away misses.

Finally, Overkill attempts to copy it one more time.

12d6.hits(5)=3

vs the Host

11d6.hits(5)=2

Hurray! You successfully copy the file

So if I understand it correctly, you wanted to leave the host, correct?

IP 2

Patrol IC 15
Probe IC 14
New IC 12
Overkill 8

Agreed - Jack (the player) is helping Overkill (the player) know stuff that Overkill (the character) would know backward and forward.

I honestly didn't think that applied to matrix combat, but I can't find anything that really says one way or the other.

I believe I have stayed long enough in this lovely virtual establishment, and will exit before I make REAL good friends with these wonderful IC that I just met.

BTW: Awesome write-ups of the Matrix Action, Lobo! It was great, I could visualize the whole, intense scene.

If you want to go ahead with writing the finish, Overkill the Archangel will be flying the frag out of the host and the Matrix, back to his table in the REAL world to order a REAL beer.

I am also really looking forward to seeing the others in action; I haven't played in a game with a Rigger, eager to see what Grease can do. (going to make one myself eventually)

Jack's use of skillwires seems like a great method to gain unimaginable versatility, and I am intrigued to see Amy's magical abilities let loose.

Great group. Great characters with depth and awesome players who know how to RP their characters and their backgrounds masterfully.

Thank you

As I've said before, I'm quite happy with the group as well - and as I said, there should be chances for each of you to take center stage in the action.

Ok - not out of the woods yet.

IP 2

Patrol IC 15
Probe IC 14
New IC 12
Overkill 8

The Patrol IC continues searching for you.

The Probe IC attacks again.

8d6.hits(5)=2

and you defend

9d6.hits(5)=6

Dealing 4 more points of damage to the IC! It now is down to 3 points left.

Last chance for the IC to hurt you.

The New IC attacks

8d6.hits(5)=3

You defend (at -1 die)

9d6.hits(5)=0

Jeez - you cannot BUY a break here.

The attack has no visible effect, and you Exit the Host.

At this point, combat is over, and you can switch to AR and Jack Out

Well, that last IC hitting you is not good from a metagame perspective. Damn...

K, Immediately gonna be checking to see what the IC MARKed me with and any damage it has done;and reviewing and sending the footage to the team.

Your deck isn't damaged. I'm not sure if you would be able to tell what the IC did by examining your deck, but Lobo might let you roll your Matrix Security Knowledge given the LACK of any damage done to your deck. There aren't too many IC that don't do some kind of damage to your deck.

Ok, so some OOC info:

MARKs disappear once you've disconnected from the Matrix, so the two MARKs you had on you are gone. However, what Jack has figured out (and I think that Overkill would quickly figure out IC) is that the last piece of IC was Trace. There is nothing wrong with your deck, and the now that you've disconnected from the Matrix they can't follow you, but the authorities have been alerted of your intrusion and told your last known location. Response time isn't instantaneous, but I would suggest not hanging around.

As far as the footage, it shows the officer and a woman leaving the club, walking past Paul on their way out the door. Paul seems to be busy doing his job. As the couple stands waiting for a cab, Mitchell's hand around the girl's waist, he staggers backward as three rounds from off camera hit him in quick succession in the chest, knocking him backwards into the line waiting to get in.

He almost falls into one patron, a tall, blonde haired human with cybereyes that look like two silver orbs in their sockets, who reacts with superhuman speed. He catches Mitchell with one arm, holding him off the ground, while the other arm extends out toward the direction the shots came from, a pistol rocketing from inside his sleeve to the palm of his hand, and he gets off a round.

The return fire is a single shot, snapping back Mitchell's head. The man who caught him drops him to the floor and moves off camera toward the gunfire, ducking and weaving as he goes.

The woman with Mitchell drops to the floor, screaming and crying, and the rest of the crowd scatters (including Paul, who makes a quick retreat into the club).