Sorry it has been a while since I posted. I have been scouring the book for any kind of reference to how this works, and there isn't one.

The benefit of having it be Option 1 - i.e. if you go berserk in CT 1 for 1 turn, it ends at the end of CT 1 - regardless of how many Action Phases you have left - is that it is simple.

The disadvantage is that it is very random how long those effects last.

Good things you want to have happen to you in the early IPs, and they tend to benefit those with a higher initiative more than those with a lower initiative.
Bad things you want to have happen to you in the later IPs, ideally after you have already finished going for that CT. (The Fear power, for example, if you only lose by 1 net hit, and that happens after your last AP on the last IP of the CT, has no effect on you whatsoever, because the next time you get to go will be next CT, and the effects will have worn away.

Option 3 is better in that it evens everything out. If you are really fast, and get hit in IP 2 of a CT, then it is going to last until IP 2 of next CT. If you are slow and only get to act in IP 1 of a CT, then the effect is going to stop at the end of IP 1 of the next CT.

The downside is that it is more of a headache to keep track of - but only if you have a lot of characters under different effects. After all, from a cognitive standpoint, it is not much different to remember "Amy is berserk until the end of CT 2, as opposed to "Amy is berserk until IP 2 of next CT."

I don't really have a dog in the hunt so to speak, it seems that both Dr Z and Jack are liking Option 1, and Chrome doesn't seem to care, so I'll go with that for now so we can continue along.

Up to you man, you're the GM. That's why you get paid the big bucks.

Spirit of Air 15
Overkill (-1 from wounds) 7
Grease 5
Amy (-4 for wounds) 5
Lynx (-1 from wounds, -5 from Dodge) 3
Jack (-3 from wounds) -2

The Spirit of Air moves on to the final target, Lynx, attempting to Engulf him.
15d6.hits(5)=4

Lynx performs a Dodge action, subtracting 5 from his initiative
React+Int 12, Gymnastics 4, -1 from wounds, -1 from Electrical damage, -2 for third attack, for a total of 12
12d6.hits(5)=7

Overkill gets to go again now, and has to take a simple action to Aim and reset recoil, firing a short burst
Ag+Auto 9, SM 2, Aim 1, wounds -1
11d6.hits(5)=2

Lynx Dodges,
React+Int 12, Cover 4, -1 from wounds, -1 from Electrical damage, -3 for fourth attack, -2 for Short burst=9
9d6.hits(5)=3

Grease then aims and fires
Pistols 4, Agi 3, SM 2, Aim 1
10d6.hits(5)=3

Lynx dodges again
React+Int 12, Cover 4, -1 from wounds, -1 from Electrical damage, -4 for fifth attack = 10
10d6.hits(5)=4

And we are back to Amy's turn.

Holy CRAP the guy is like Quicksilver!

I'm sure you already calculated it (and I am positive it would have been greater than 4 even if you hadn't), but just to remind everyone else, using Block, Dodge, or Parry introduces your Physical Limit to your defense test.

Assuming I am not dead by the time I get to take my Free Action, I'm weakly yelling, "Close the fraggin' door!"

Ammo:
3 more SMG S&S
1 more Light Pistol Gel

I should have snuck the Ingram X in; we could really use another wide burst here.
-DrZ

EDIT: I'm not sure Grease would have anything to add as the "leader" here; other than maybe "Shoot that guy! Hit him with your bullets!"

I had thought of it - but thank you for bringing it up (this is the sort of thing that is easy to keep track of) His Physical Limit is 7 (Body 5, Reaction 8, Strength 4)

I was actually REALLY REALLY hoping that after the Spirit attacked him with its MASSIVE engulf power, and Amy had thrown all those spells, Overkill hosing down the room with bullets and Jack literally putting his body in front of the bullets meant for Amy that it was going to be Grease's one bullet from his Light Pistol that took him down.

I can just picture Grease standing up, brushing off his coat, and being like, "It's okay guys, I got him. No need to worry - I had him where I wanted all along."

That was my hope as well. That was a tactical error on my part not bringing the big firepower.
-DrZ

My SMG is still technically in the cart. I don't know if I'd suggest leaving cover to go retrieve it though...


Huh... you know, I technically still have that Flash-Bang grenade on me. If only I had my helmet on, I could detonate it with a free action using wireless.

If Grease leaves for the hallway, I'd take that as a sign to run

Jack's own mini version of Danger Close lol

Yup, LOL. Dane-jah Zone!

Actually, if I get to go next CT, I may just try it. Even without DNI, I can detonate it with a Simple Action. Pull out Grenade (Simple), Flip Off Lynx (Free) Detonate Grenade (Simple). I'm pretty sure Falcon would survive it and hopeful that Lynx won't resist it all that well.

Hell, it's not like we haven't caused enough noise as it is. I haven't had time to worry about that part yet considering Lynx is impossible to kill, but I can see getting out of here being a hoot.

Remember also the Gas - 8DV worth of stun resisted only by Body+Willpower may be enough to take him down. (Of course, 4DV worth of gas over the next 4 turns may be enough to take Amy down as well, but that is a different issue)

Yeah, I had remembered that after I posted. It's a little anti-climactic like War of the Worlds, but I'll take it if it works!

ETA: Did you ever decide on how often we need to test for the toxin resistance?

Ok, so it says:

Likewise, if left in contact with a toxin for an extended
period, the effects can be increased. If the victim is
still being exposed to the toxin when the toxin’s Speed
interval elapses, perform another Toxin Resistance Test,
and so on each time the Speed interval elapses. For each
subsequent Toxin Resistance Test after the first, increase
the Power of the toxin by +1, cumulatively.

I think that would mean that you are testing every other turn, so basically each two CTs you spend in the gas, you have to make tests.

Cool, thanks. Also, (sorry, I should have asked this at the same time) did you decide on how long the gas sticks around? The rules for gas grenades (+/- 4 CTs) and the toxins themselves (a few minutes) conflict somewhat...

That is hard to say. 4 CTs is 12 seconds. I think if I set off a gas grenade with tear gas in a room and counted to 12, and then walked in, I'm still getting a face full of tear gas.

Similarly, I would not be willing to walk into a room 12 seconds after someone let loose some Seven-7.

The time limits under the chemical itself seem more realistic.

Ok - so, maybe a little anticlimactic, but now that Lynx is in melee, he should take a -3 dice pool modifier to dodge ranged attacks.

That means that Overkill's burst hit him with 1 net hit.

So, base damage on his SMG is 8, -2 for the S&S +1 for net hit is 7S AP 5

He resists:
5 Body +4 Armor
9d6.hits(5)=3

So he takes 4 points of Stun Damage, adding on to his 6 Stun already. This increases his penalty by 1 to dodge Grease's shot, in addition to the 3 more he takes for being in melee, which would negate one of his hits, which would mean that Grease TIES the number of hits he got, but because he is using cover, a tie is an actual hit on him!

However, it does mean that the bullet has to penetrate the cover he is behind. He has been using his bed for cover, mostly just for the blocking visibility, not so much for the physical integrity of the barrier itself. A mattress is probably cheap material - Structure 2, Armor 4, +1 because he is using Gel Rounds.

Fortunately the power of the attack is 6, so it IS able to penetrate.

The bed rolls its damage resistance
7d6.hits(5)=1

Reducing the attack from 6 S DV to 5, and then the structure itself absorbs 1 point of DV, meaning that Lynx has to resist 4 DV Stun, with an AP of +1

Lynx rolls
10d6.hits(5)=2

Meaning that he takes 2 more points of Stun damage and drops to the ground.

Lol

Anti-climactic? That means Grease took him out with his Light Pistol! That's PERFECT!

Edited back to happy.

Wait a second.

Where does it say that Stun damage can't penetrate barriers?

That would mean I can't break glass with my fist?

I think at best, it would not be considered a Penetrating weapon, in which case the barrier would absorb an extra point of damage, meaning that Lynx only took 1 more point of damage from the round, instead of 2, and as he only had 1 point left after Overkill's shot, he still drops.

I'm good with that, the rules are a little weird.



It kind of makes sense in a way. Stick & Shock fires gel packets containing an electrical discharge which is how they cause damage. Gel rounds are made of semi-rigid jelly.

Which means you have to take a Called Shot to do a Harder Knock to break glass with your fist (dumb, I know). With the -4 from a Called Shot, you would need to have at least 5 dice between AGI and Unarmed Combat to even try the test with one die, unless you were going to spend Edge. It's pretty dumb when you look at it that way, IMO.

Happy to move on and try to avoid the guards!

Ok then

That means we just have Amy's last action (not sure what that is going to be) and then Overkill, Grease, Falcon, Lynx, and Gutter all have to resist the gas.

May as well get that out of the way now.

Grease:
5d6.hits(5)=0

Takes 4 DV Stun and is Disoriented

Overkill
6d6.hits(5)=2

Takes 2 DV Stun and is Disoriented

Lynx
10d6.hits(5)=4

Takes 2 points of Physical damage

Falcon
9d6.hits(5)=2

Takes 3 more boxes of Physical Damage

Gutter
13d6.hits(5)=2

Takes 3 more boxes of physical damage

Huh, no rules for dragging? Lame. I guess that means I need to go with the Carrying rules? Trying to figure out if I can drag these two at the same time or not. I can carry 70kg without having to roll, and might be able to increase that by 20-30 kg.

@Grease: Nice shooting, Tex!

Dragging both at once is more of a problem with shape and area than with weight.

Falcon is probably 50-55 kgs soaking wet (he is a tiny guy,if you will recall), while Lynx is a bit burlier at 80 kgs.

The problem is you've got to get them through doorways and around furniture, etc, so I don't think you can grab one leg of each and just yank.

OK, so one at a time? I'll change my IC post if that's okay.

Also, just as a reminder (for me as for anyone else):

Jack 10 boxes of physical, no Stun.

Overkill, 5 boxes of physical, 2 boxes of Stun, Disorientation.

Grease, 4 boxes of Stun, Disorientation

Amy, 7 boxes of physical, 6 boxes of Stun, Disorientation

ETA - yes, one at a time I think is more realistic.

OK, so Amy probably needs to get out NOW given she's reasonably close to hitting her stun monitor. I'll grab Falcon first, then Lynx. Overkill and Grease can grab the Gutter between them, I think. Then when I come back in to get Lynx, Overkill or Grease can come back in and try a quick search?

Not sure about the search, I'd sure like to do it, but don't know if we have the time. Maybe a Matrix Perception check to spot commlinks and just grab those?

We don't have a lot of time. From what I remember, the guards were on Floor 6 (one above us) when this whole thing kicked off. Granted, it's only going to be like a total of 21 to 30 seconds for all of this to play out.

I just posted IC my plan. There's a lot of cross-chat about who is dragging who- I'm fine changing my post IC if it's clear something else is going on.

I think that level of confusion makes sense right now given that we're all wounded and trying to get shit done fast. You'd see that Jack is grabbing the mage. If you want to tap him and point at Lynx, he might change his mind.

Since we're sort of still in CTs, I'm not sure if Lobo wants us to do a whole lot of talking.

By my count its been about 3 Combat Turns since you went into the apartment - so 9 seconds have passed. (This, incidentally, is why I've almost never bothered to take a DocWagon Contract for any of my characters, if you are in a firefight and lose, you are dead LONG before anyone can get to you, unless the firefight happens to take place INSIDE the vehicle the DocWagon HTR team is sitting in.)

I am actually going out for the evening - congratulations to you all for beating this fight - it was a difficult one!

The security guards on the premises are jokes compared to Lynx and Falcon, but you have all those pesky wound modifiers to deal with now...

I'll have an IC post up late this evening.

ETA - time is factor, as the alarms are going off - automatic weapons fire will do that.

I may take Jack up on that extra SMG regardless.

-DrZ

My answer to the wound modifiers is to get everything to the elevator, have Overkill have it go up and then down all the way. During that time, Amy casts Resist Pain on all of us. Hopefully chops off a few of the wound penalties at least. If we turn on the sprinkler system, we also might be able to beat the disorientation from the CS. Not sure on that one as it says soap and water. In my experience, water works just fine.

ETA: Have Overkill restart the elevator, crack it open at the ground floor and toss the Flash Bang out, then close it again. They either run or take a bunch of stun, then we bolt for the back door!

EATA: May be a bit premature, but high-fives for everyone.

We never discussed it; but I imagined my rotodrone was "nearby". I would think a few kilometers would be reasonable. I was recalling it IG to come meet us by the apartment in case stuff gets hairy. We need a rigger van in a bad way. If we make it through this I hope there's enough left over after Grease's novacoke bender. I need to fix up / get a new RHex, having another machinegun in this fight would have been a big difference maker.

-DrZ

ETA: Agreed, Jack. Great job all around! Also, thanks to everyone for putting together a great run, both Lobo and my fellow posters to keep this thing clicking along and the action moving. We nearly finished a PbP adventure- this is nearly unprecedented!

Sadly, I don't think we're getting paid that much, unless we throw it all into a team fund, less living expenses for the month. Now, if Grease sold his cars and negotiated for a van, he might be able to pull it off...

Although, RAW, you can't fence your cars because they don't have an availability. That seems stupid.

You can't fence them, but you could sell them. Provided you had a SIN, and were willing to accept a significant loss (considering cars lose tons of value as soon as they drive off the lot).

ETA: But that's off the table- that car is like, part of his *life*, man!

ETA2: If and when we get into an actual car chase, the BMW is going to show it's value over a clunker of a stepvan.

I'm going inside to get Gutter. I'll ask Grease to wait out here with Amy and Overkill, I believe he is the least injured (yes DrZ, Grease can grab my SMG). If I see anything interesting, I'll grab that too on my way out.

Incidentally, could Amy have tried to erase the signature of her spell? I don't think she would be able to get all of it without dealing with the gas again, but any little bit might help. Granted, we're leaving body fluids all over the place, but we're all SINless, I think, so it wouldn't necessarily be an immediate problem (maybe we can get Ramirez to take care of that evidence for us).

Ok I've read most of OOC, and now I'll move to catching up on IC. A lot is going on again, of course, and that's day I'm the busiest in the last 3 months at work, go figure...

Anyway, I told you what Amy was going to do if she wasn't berserk anymore at some point in OOC, I think, but I dunno if you were still waiting on that or not. It was simply: take full cover and pick up your nerves after almost dying, and then she'd go all out again on her next action phase, after finding her courage again. In other words, she was doing nothing...

And now the fight seems over anyway, regardless, so it doesn't even matter? Our plan with the gas really worked well guys

Yeah, Lobo had you take cover and hang out next to Overkill, I believe.


LOL, now we know and knowing is half the battle! (Don't use gas grenades again until the Matrix book comes out and we can actually jam communications)

I blame the fire spirit's omniscience. If we had been able to slip the door open and send a drone in, we could have gotten better intel and maybe not have just exposed ourselves to the CS gas, rather than our opponents after they were knocked out... Tossing it into Lynx's room and shutting the door would have worked pretty well, I think.

As long as we get past building security, I'm happy!

To be honest, we should have gotten some kind of gas that we would be immune to, with the masks on. THe skin vector thing is just not a good idea when you don't have chemical protection.

I think one of the suggestions was Nausea Gas, which is the only inhalation-only vector gas in the Core book. The problem is that it takes 4CTs before it does anything. Plenty of time for them to call security and the end result is that they're only maybe Disoriented and Nauseated, the latter effects largely dependent on the sufferer's physical limit. The other problem was that they weren't bunched up in the main room like we were hoping. Maybe next time we should wait to detonate the grenade until we know the targets are there.

ETA: It also would have helped if we had money and time to acquire chemsuits, which would have helped out a lot with the Contact Vector. There's something called Retro in Bullets & Bandages that is Inhalation only, but it does Physical Damage.

Beats me why a 2070 version of tear gas isn't in there. It's clearly stun, clearly inhalation + eyes/throat/nose (maybe ears?), and causes a possibly severe perception penalty. Yet it's not strong enough for covered skin to be affected, even without chemsuits...

That's the CS gas we used (it's even called CS/Tear Gas in the header), it's just apparently more powerful in 2075 than it is today.

This is nuts, I give up... they need a mucous membranes vector or something. You do _not_ get affected by tear gas through skin alone. That's why we have skin!

It's still useful to have something without skin vector for crowd control for, you know.. when your police force isn't wearing a chemsuit in 2075.

I think that's what Nausea Gas is meant to do.



It doesn't do stun damage and takes a relatively long time to take effect (12 seconds or so), but it would work for dispersing a riot. Probably good that it doesn't cause stun since, as we're seeing now, non-lethal chemical weapons in SR for some reason have a very good chance of killing people.

Personally, I'm not sure if stun damage should even roll into physical except for certain circumstances, like glitching or critical glitching the damage resistance test maybe. Otherwise you get situations like this where we have people who are about to die from non-lethal attacks.

ETA: I do like how the example for toxins seems to imply that CS is inhalation only with stun and disorientation effects only. These people can't get anything right...

I think at some point we need to revisit Tear Gas (not right now). As it stands, it is lethal to normal humans if they are exposed to it for like 30-40 seconds (in game I'm talking about, not in real life).

Average Human with body and Willpower of 3 each, gets about 2 hits on his resistance test.

CT 2 - takes 6 boxes of stun
CT 4 - takes 7 boxes of stun, knocking him out and putting him at 1 box of physical
CT 6 - takes 8 boxes of stun, adding 4 boxes of physical
CT 8 - takes 9 boxes of stun adding 4 boxes of physical
CT 10 - takes 10 boxes of stun, adding 5 boxes of physical, killing him. (30 seconds - give or take a couple due to variance in die rolling).

That seems off.

For "non-lethal" gasses, it seems like it would be more appropriate that they didn't do stun damage at all; just caused their effects on a failed resistance test. The power of the attack could determine how long those effects take place. But getting murdered by spending 30 seconds in a room with tear gas doesn't make sense either.

I'm still a fan of:



That would account for those odd situations where someone has a heart attack when they're tased or get hit with CS gas. It does remove the whole "accidentally punching someone to death" bit, the "non-accidental" version of punching someone to death can be accomplished by using the harder knock rule once they're knocked out.

I don't have a problem with the accidental punching someone to death - in that you have to either be REALLY strong to do it, or the guy has to be near beaten to death to begin with, and people do inadvertently kill people by beating them to death when they didn't actually mean to kill them.

The gas, however, is just too lethal the way the rules are written.

However, For now, let's think about our next actions - we won't have to deal with gas again for a while I don't think

- OK, well, Jack is going back in for Gutter. The way he figures it, the dude is worth at least 1,500 if Ramirez is being fair, also may be willing to turn state's evidence quicker if he didn't actually kill anyone (beyond what went down at the rally).

Up to everyone else about what they want to do. As far as suggestions:

- Amy offered to summon a spirit, etc. Her time might be better spent taking a shot at a Resist Pain spell (F3 or F1 and use Reagents to boost the limit to 6) to try to get rid of 2-4 points of wound modifiers she is suffering from first. She'd have to sustain it for 3 CTs (or 1 CT with the reagent trick) or kill the Invisibility spell on Jack and let Focused Concentration take over. But it seems like it would be worth it.

- Overkill is still in the host. Since we all have low-light vision, it might not be a bad idea for him to shut off the lights (or leave one on to avoid total darkness) and start the sprinkler system to cause havoc.

- Grease can cover everyone while we're getting all this stuff sorted.

ETA: Lobo, do you want us to start posting ourselves again? I wasn't sure given we're not exactly sure when the guards are going to arrive.