I thought it was a few hundred meters away, is it likely to be discovered by the water spirit?

That depends on how big a search radius the water spirit is being sent on.

ETA - I'm not saying it will automatically spot your spirit, but your character doesn't know one way or the other.

I made a small edit on my IC post to reflect this.

Right in time for the weekend!

P.S. Overkill only needs to blow one grenade. Those things are expensive, so let's not do both unless they (hilariously) walk into the detonation area of the second one.

Yep!

Can we get an update of the map with our locations marked, where the bad guys are parked, etc?

-DrZ

Fair warning: my posting rate will be slower during memorial day weekend

Ditto

However late tonight I will have the new map and the results of the firat IP up

Ok - so I got all the way through the first IP and then deleted the damn page

All the rolls are in Invisible Castle if you want to look - but I'm not copying and paste them again.

Here we go again:

IP 1
Spirit of Air 25
Amy 24
Spirit of Water 21
Overkill 16
Jack 16
Grease 12
Truck 19-10=9 (Spent Edge to retain Defense Pool)
Long Blonde Hair 19-10=9 (Spent Edge to retain Defense Pool)
Dark Hair#1 11-10=1
Dark Hair#2 9-10=0
Short Blonde Hair 9-10=0

Spirit of Air Delays
Amy Delays
Spirit of Water continues on its task

Overkill Detonates Flash Grenade - (you can't fire as well, since that would be two "attack" actions during the same IP)

Dark Hair#1 resists - takes 5 Stun (Knocked Prone)
Short Blonde Hair resists - takes 5 Stun (Knocked Prone)
Truck resists- takes 3 Stun
Victim resists takes 3d6.hits(5)=1 =9 Stun

Spirit of Air Moves and and Materializes

Amy casts Mass Confusion centered on Truck at force 3 with 5 reagents
Spellcasting 6, +2 specialization + 6 Magic, -1 for background count, -1 for delaying action - Lowlight compensates for visibility
12d6.hits(5)=3

Dark Hair#1 resists
8d6.hits(5)=5

Short Blonde Hair resists
8d6.hits(5)=3

Truck Resists
5d6.hits(5)=3

Amy resists 2DV Drain
13d6.hits(5)=5

Jack Shoots at Truck: (Complex Action) Activates Smartlink (Free Action)
Agility 5 Automatics 4 2 Aim actions (+2 dice), Dim light negated by lowlight, range modifier negated by vision mag, 6 points of recoil RC=5 (1 auto, 3 for strength, 1 for shock pad) - total 9 dice (if there is another modifier I'm missing, let me know)
9d6.hits(5)=3

Truck Dodges (He spend Edge to retain his defense pool, but not to add to it)
8, -5 for 6 round burst, -1 for 3 points of stun damage
2d6.hits(5)=1

Truck resists damage
9DV, +2 for successes +1 for EX ammo = AP-3. Resists 12P with 21 dice after AP
21d6.hits(5)=9

Takes 3 points of Physical Damage

Grease Hops into the drone adding 6 to his initiative
3d6-3=6

so on the next pass he will go at 8

Long Blonde Hair 19-10=9 (Spent Edge to retain Defense Pool) - Sprints towards the car
6d6.hits (5)=2
He moves 28 meters

Truck 19-10=9 (Spent Edge to retain Defense Pool) - reduced to 7 after wounds
Moves use the victim as a shield, pulls a throwing knife out of a pocket(Simple Action), Takes Cover (Simple Action), Initiates a Pre-emptive Dodge (Free Action) - reducing his Initiative to 2

Dark Hair#1 11-10=1 - reduced to 0 after wounds - Free Action, start Counterspelling
Dark Hair#2 9-10=0 - Free action - starts Counterspelling
Short Blonde Hair 9-10=0 - reduced to -1 after wounds - Free Action starts Counterspelling

I will jump into the rotodrone using a "jump into rigged vehicle" action. That should take the IP, and put me at VR initiative.

Thanks,
-DrZ

I was going for a 6 round FA simple action burst. Note that as an ork, Jack has natural low-light vision, which he would be using in this situation since it is better than thermographic given the lighting conditions. With recoil and range penalties, I think my final dice pool is an 8, so I imagine I'm going to miss since he is using Edge to get his defense pool. After he has fired, he is using a free action to turn on the wireless on his smartgun so he can use it next IP and then using his final Simple Action to Take Aim again.

Assuming he gets a chance, this plan isn't really turning out all that great. I'm surprised they didn't take more stun damage, to be honest.

ETA: Also, because I am now trying to squeeze every advantage out of the situation that I can find, Dark Hair #1 loses his action this CT since his initiative was reduced to 0 due to the stun damage (assuming he doesn't have some way to ignore stun damage).

Okey Dokey then.

1) Jack - both of the two cultists rolled really well on their resistance tests, while Truck rolled about average. (I thought the cultists would take more damage as well).

2) I've updated the post above, adding in some stuff - but that should complete the first IP

I can put up the results of the first round, but before I post anything in IC, last time Grease had mentioned having you guys post to avoid me putting up walls of text. How would you guys like to handle the IC part of the combat?

In the meantime, anyone who wants to post what their action will be for IP 2, go ahead, and I'll fill in the list below.

IP 2
Spirit of Air 15
Amy 14
Spirit of Water 11
Grease 8
Overkill 6
Jack 6

I'll go along with it, but seriously, detonating that grenade, which I could only see someone like Overkill hooking up to a single button in his AR display, wouldn't possibly take an entire action to press.

Did you include the damage for the explosive ammo Jack used on Truck?

But anyways, I will take a FA Simple Action Burst as well at Truck, my Smartlink on of course, taking aim with any extra simple actions I have. Dice pool should be eleven + Aim, (if I even have the simple actions to do so) Can I include a message to Grease to hit that runner?

I don't see the Victim's position on the map, would help to know if I need to go Long Burst next round.

ETA: Uggh, wait, do I have a clear shot at Truck or does he have the girl in the way?

It doesn't take an entire IP to press - activating it would be a Free Action.

However, you cannot do two "attack" actions in one IP - so detonating a grenade and firing a gun are not allowed in one IP - the same way you cannot fire twice using two simple actions, or cast an attack spell recklessly and shoot a pistol, etc.

I assumed (although I should have been specific in the writeup) that you would be using your action to Aim twice so that on IP 2 you would get the Aim bonus when shooting at Truck.

Thank you w/ regard to the Explosive ammo - I did miss that - will update the damage on the original chart (I actually looked at his equipment and saw the "Regular" ammo at the end but missed the "EX" at the beginning.

Truck is using the victim as cover - he will gain a bonus to his defense test if you shoot at him, a glitch on the attack test will certainly hit her, and a miss or a glancing hit may hit her (since glancing hits against targets in cover hit the target through the cover)

Couple of things:

- Before we move on to the next IP, I just want to confirm the resistance rolls for the Flash Bang grenade. I just want to make sure that the -4 AP was included. As I am calculating it, Dark Hair #1 would have a pre-AP damage resistance pool of 16 dice, Short Blond Hair would be also be at 16, and Truck would be at 23? Those seem kind of high to me (Truck's is probably reasonable if he has max BOD or some adept power) given the descriptions of what they are wearing. (Also, you have Dark Hair #1 getting hit by the stun grenade, but then Dark Hair #2 resisting Amy's spell, shouldn't they be the same general AOE?)

<Deleted Surprise Commentary, I think this is more of a GM call>

-Truck actually gets one more die to dodge my attack. Wound penalies don't kick in until 4 boxes of damage are incurred. He was at 3S when I shot him.

- Thanks, I forgot about the shock pad and vision magnification. Although, with that calculation, I think I should have 10 dice. But since Truck was missing one die above from his dodge dice, I'm good with calling it a wash.

No problem - I am as human as the next guy and will make mistakes - happy to go over each part to make sure I'm not missing something (which I do, unfortunately)



Both Short Hair Blonde and Dark Hair#1 have a Body + Armor of 16 (Remember R&G is legal, so they have nice suits)
Truck has a Body+Armor of 23 - he isn't wearing a suit, and he is a tough motherfragger.

Dark Hair #2 didn't actually have to resist Amy's spell, as he wasn't in the spell radius (just like he wasn't in the blast radius of the grenade - that should have read Dark Hair #1 resists her spell.



They can do a free action when it is their turn to go -

Page 160
"A character with an Initiative Score of 0 or less can
only take one Free Action during an Initiative Pass. However,
a character with 0 or less Initiative is allowed one
Free Action. She can also respond to attacks by dodging
or defending herself."

So, since they were surprised, they couldn't take the Free Action prior to their first action phase, but they can take it when they go - i.e. after everyone else in the IP. However, you are correct, they probably can't move - will update.




Hmm - page 169
"Wound modifiers are accumulated with every third box of damage and
are cumulative between damage tracks and with other
negative modifiers such as spells or adverse conditions."

So - by my reckoning he should be at -1 die (unless I'm missing something?)

As far as your attack, I somehow subtracted 1 from 11 and got 9

Here is your extra die:
1d6.hits(5)=0

So no extra damage.

BTW - given his size, he is only getting +2 to his defense pool, and I say a glancing hit or miss MAY hit her since he is not just hiding behind her, it is also the cross she is hung on.

As for the surprise stuff, sorry about that, I think I've been thinking of the D&D rules. Surprise seems pretty weak in Shadowrun, particularly with the Edge rules.

Wow, I have been reading that wrong. I even checked the character sheet since I thought for sure that the wound modifier didn't start accruing until the second row, but I am apparently misremebering.

Well I guess I have to switch to a secondary target for my attack; one of the cultists nearby.

The mage controlling the elemental would be a fantastic alternative.

Btw - I am only not posting the IC resolution of IP 1 because of Grease's comment after the first battle.

Do you guys have an alternative as to how to post the results of the combat?

I don't really have a problem with you doing summaries of the action. I think DrZ was mainly saying allowing us to have some agency between the posts if we wanted to interject things, etc. I could be wrong though.

Ok then - will wait to hear from Grease before I post the IC description of IP 1

Also, since I keep forgetting

Overkill has a mild allergy to wild grass.

That definitely applies to the area of the Arsenal - where the whole area is overgrown.

I was going to roleplay that out a bit,(and have him stop at a Stuffer Shack for some Benadryl,) but it seemed to detract from Overkill trying to step into the lead.

However, as he apparently has the luck of Charlie Brown; (Hey, at least we stunned the sacrificial victim with that Flashbang) it would be appropriate.

Amy will retry to cast Mass Confusion, once again with 5 reagents, and again centered on Truck. If she can dent Truck's (and potentially other hostiles) dice pool a bit, it can really help us out I think.

In the event I don't get to post when my turn comes up: assuming I also don't have a good line on Truck, I'm going to shift targets to the dark haired mage that summoned the spirit. I believe Amy pointed him out to us. My smartgun should be turned on from my free action from last round. I'll take aim again with one SA and fire a 6-round FA burst with my second at the summoner. If I do have a reasonable line on Truck, I'll attempt to hit him instead.

ETA: I'll use my free action after that to switch firing mode from FA to BF. I will have burned through 12 rounds of ammo by that point in time. I have a magazine capacity of 40, but I am hoping that the negatives they're facing from the damage and spells they're taking mean that I can more safely switch to 3 round bursts for better accuracy, possibly more damage.

... and dammit, I totally meant to spend Edge to Blitz on the opening round. I totally forgot to do that...

Since I haven't heard that Chrome or Overkill have an issue, and I looked back at the first fight in the OOC thread, I think you are correct.

I have updated the IC thread with the results of IP 1.

Feel free to post something now, or if not, then let me know and I will continue with IP 2. (I will still need to wait for Grease to post his action before I can finish IP 2)

However, in the meantime:

IP 2
Spirit of Air 15
Amy 14
Spirit of Water 11
Grease 8
Overkill 6
Jack 6

Spirit of Air uses its ability on Truck
12d6.hits(5)=5

Truck dodges
8 dice, -2 for wounds, -1 for 2nd attack defended against, +2 for cover= 7d6.hits(5)=3

Truck resists:
14DV, AP-6
17d6.hits(5)=8

So he takes 6 boxes of physical damage

Amy casts Confusion
13d6.hits(5)=4

Truck Resists
5 dice normally, plus 7 dice from Counterspelling
12d6.hits(5)=4

Dark Hair#1 Resists
8 dice normally, plus 7 dice from Counterspelling
15d6.hits(5)=7

Short Blonde Hair Resists
8 dice normally, plus 7 dice from Counterspelling
15d6.hits(5)=0 - Wow.

So, Short Blonde Hair, in addition to his wound modifier, is at -4 dice.

Amy resists 2DV Drain
12d6.hits(5)=4

So no drain

Spirit of Water completes its service (telling the caster it has found intruders )

Hehe they'll run out of spell defense before I run out of action phases


Love that part. That would so happen to me, too.

Great write-up btw. Action packed and detailed.

Apologies for being out of pocket this weekend.

In reference to posting during combat, I was referring mostly to retaining some agency around our actions; but in a case like this it makes sense to keep it as is (I think).

Since my understanding of the plan was to handle anyone who made a break for it, on 8 Grease is going to light up the cultist running for the truck.

I can wait til tomorrow morning to work out the details, however let's for a second assume a few things:

1) I am terribly sorry, but I forget what type of ammo is in this rotodrone (or if Grease ever even really knew..) It was one of the ones we took from the Lonestar at the shootout at the rally.
2) Since the drone has a body of 4, that's 3 recoil comp. I believe it also has a Gas Vent 3 on it (since I know it isn't silenced). So that's a total of 7 recoil comp.
3) If the runner is 0-25 meters from my drone that's short range, 26-150 medium.

I have a gunnery skill of 4, with a specialization in ballistic, and 3 agility for a total pool of 9. I also believe I get the +2 from being rigged in VR, but as that may only applies to vehicle tests I'd understand if that was outside the normal rules.

If possible, I'd like to take aim and fire a full auto (6 bullet) burst.
Unless Grease hears otherwise over the radio, that's what he's doing.

Thanks,
-DrZ

Ok, so:

Grease shoots: (you cannot take aim, as all Gunnery actions when rigging are Complex Actions).
Gunner 4 + Specialization 2 + Agility 3 + hot sim bonus 2 (it does actually have a Gas Vent 3 on it) - so your RC handles the recoil. You do, however, take a -1 penalty for range, and - the drone's sensor package includes lowlight so you don't take visibility modifiers.

That gives you a total of 11 dice:
11d6.hits(5)=3

He attempts to dodge
Normal Dodge of 9+2 for Running, -5 for full auto is 6 dice
6d6.hits (5)=4

So he dodges the attack.

Overkill - I need to know which target you are switching to, so I can adjudicate the shot.

The numbers you listed would be 10d6 for Grease's test, not that losing additional hits really matters. Although, is grease jumped in? I think the Control Rig bonus (+2) would actually apply since Gunnery is a vehicle skill.

Yes - he should also gain the +2 for the control rig, while losing 1 die because it should be 10, not 11 dice.

for the sake of argument, here is that extra die:

1d6.hits(5)=1

Which means it is a grazing hit, and still does no damage.

Well, it gives them something to think about at least!

-DrZ

ETA: @Jack or Lobo (since I presume you'd both know): What do I need to do to reset my recoil?

This is an excellent question, and one I will put up to the group.

I believe the errata/RAW ruling is that you simply need to take a simple action that is NOT shooting in order to clear your progressive recoil.

So, for instance, fire a shot, take aim, fire a shot, take aim, ad infinitum, and you will never suffer progressive recoil.

The optional rule (and one that I think that is more RAI - or at least makes fully automatic weapons less overpowered - is that you need to have an entire IP pass without shooting in order to clear it.

So, fire a shot, next IP take aim and take cover, or take aim twice, then fire a shot, etc.

What are your thoughts on this? I prefer the second method (as otherwise fully automatic weapons can fire 6 round bursts with no recoil accumulation since you can always aim then shoot, etc - but I don't want to introduce an optional rule without your input.

With regards to your particular case, the above situation doesn't apply, in firing a weapon via Gunnery is always a Complex Action - so you can't shoot consecutive phases without accruing progressive recoil, since you don't have a simple action to take to reset the recoil.

So, the TL:DR answer is that for firing weapons from a drone, in order to reset your recoil, you have to skip shooting for an entire IP.

I personally prefer the errata because it moves the action along faster (which according to Aaron is what was RAI but the parsing of the original sentence was not good), but I do think there are issues with 6 round FA simple action bursts. I'd probably make any FA firing action require a Complex Action, you just have to figure out how much recoil you want to deal with (doubled for MGs).

Well, presuming I want a chance of hitting something, the current method requires me to reset my recoil almost every other turn anyways. I haven't done any analysis, but I wonder if it makes more sense for me to fire three 3-round bursts in a row, or a 6, rest, 6, rest, etc.

-DrZ

I am totally fine with this - i.e. the only change that is made to the rules is that there is no longer a Simple Action FA Burst.

When you fire FA, you may fire up to 6 or 10 rounds and it is always a complex action.

That is going to depend on how hard to hit the guy is. The 3 round burst is only -2 dodge pool, the 6 round burst is -5.

If he is easy to hit, go with more 3 round bursts. Harder to hit, -5.

Well, I'd disagree with this based on the idea that this is the advantage of a FA weapon; otherwise a FA attack is no different from a BF attack (except for allowing a 10 round burst).

Remember that there is an opportunity cost for recoil compensation; it's almost always preferable to have a sound suppressor on your weapon, but players tend to favor recoil compensation to avoid the penalties.

Basically, this ruling just removes the Simple action FA burst. There are a lot of disadvantages to FA weapons (size, concealability, noise, etc.) I'd dislike taking away one of their advantages (if that makes sense).

Although... now that I think about it. This means there is 0 difference between a BF long burst and a FA simple action burst. I'm not sure if that is a problem or not.

ETA: Slipped by DrZ

All this doesn't affect me, but I'd like to stay closer to RAW in general, to get a good feel for it. We can always change later to test variations.

Fair enough - no problem staying with RAW

One minor nick to pick with RAW - specifically to Grease's point about wanting to have a sound suppressor instead of a gas vent - you really aren't forced to choose between the two, RAW.

Page 417
"Integral accessories (those that come with the weapon) don’t take up mount locations."

So, for instance, the Ingram Smartgun (which comes with both a sound suppressor and a gas vent 2) allows you fire a 6 round FA burst as a simple action and if you have a 3 strength, handle 5 points of the 6 points of recoil (so functionally almost no penalty - and with a 5 strength or higher, no penalty at all)

The HK227 comes with a integral sound suppressor is better - you can throw on a gas vent 3 and then with a 3 strength suffer no recoil.

If you want something with longer range, go with the FN HAR (with its built in gas vent 2) and add a suppressor, or the Raiden (with its build it suppressor) and add a gas vent 3.


ETA
Just waiting on Overkill to pick a target so we can continue on.

It's strange that they reverted that rule. In 4E (I think the 20th anniversary edition) they changed the rule so that silencers/suppressors and gas vent systems were incompatible. On the Ingram, for instance, you had to select which of the two you were going to use at any given time.

ETA: I'm now prevaricating a bit on what to do. Jack is probably the last person to back out on a plan, so I'm considering that he might just attempt to take the shot against Truck if he thinks he has a decent shot at it. Even though I think it would make better meta sense to shoot the mage, taking down Truck dovetails nicely with Jack's primary (taking down Truck) and secondary (rescuing the hostage) objectives. I'm thinking he wouldn't change his targets.

If you already rolled it, no big deal.

I am aiming for one of the 2 Cultists who were nearest to Truck

I haven't rolled anything - just tell me who you want to shoot

I'll go for Truck, unless the spirit fries him first. In that case, I'll take the summoner.

If the spirit takes Truck down, I am going to shoot at the summoner with a 3 round burst (no taking aim) and then exit my spider hole to rescue the hostage. I'm not sure what kind of action that would take to get out. If it would be a complex, I'll take aim at the mage first then shoot.

Overkill fires at Short Blonde Hair
Agility 5, Automatics 4, Smartgun +2, 2 Aim actions +2, -1 for range compensated by Vision Mag, Vision penalties compensated for by lowlight, 6 points of recoil, RC=Gas vent 2, Shock pad, 1 natural, 1 for strength=5.

So, 12 dice
12d6.hits(5)=6

Short Blonde cannot dodge due to surprise (and even if he could, the combination of being prone plus the burst modifier plus the wound modifier plus Amy's spell would bring his dodge to 0 anyway).

He then resists damage:
16 dice, -3 for AP
13d6.hits(5)=3

So he only takes 14 boxes of physical damage On the plus side, he is no longer concerned about Amy's spell...

Overkill then takes a simple action to aim at the next cultist, resetting his recoil.


Jack
Agility 5, Automatics 4, 1 Aim actions (+1 dice), Dim light negated by lowlight, range modifier negated by vision mag, 6 points of recoil RC=5 (1 auto, 3 for strength, 1 for shock pad), so a total of 9 dice
9d6.hits(5)=3

Truck dodges
8 dice base, -2 for 3rd attack defended against, -5 for full auto burst, -3 for physical wound penalties, -1 for stun wound penalties, +2 for cover - yields -1 die, so no dodge

Truck resists 13P with an AP of-3
20d6.hits(5)=11

So he takes another 2 points of physical damage.

Anyone want to post anything before I put up the results of IP 2 in IC?

My smartgun is turned on now (I used my free action from the opening round to turn it on after I fired), I should have two extra dice.

You are absolutely correct:

2d6.hits(5)=0

Unfortunately, it it did not help.

On the other hand, I cannot imagine Truck surviving another hit from the spirit

That's what I was thinking, but was hoping that Truck would go down so the spirit could flash fry the summoner. It's the little things.

I don't have anything to add to the IC. I think my personal preference would be for us to just post anything we want our characters to say/think here and you incorporate it into the post for each IP. I personally don't find the threads too cumbersome, particularly since we only average an IC post every two days or so when we're in combat with all the behind the scenes stuff.

IP 3
Spirit of Air 5
Amy 4
Spirit of Water 1

Spirit of air attacks again with elemental attack
11d6.hits(5)=4

Truck dodges
8 base, -3 for 4th consecutive attack, -3 for total wound modifiers, +2 for cover=4 dice
4d6.hits(5)=1

So he then has to resist 15DV with -6 AP
17d6.hits(5)=6

So he takes 9 points of physical damage and drops.

Amy's action?