I know Adamu ruled on this, but the only reason I'm asking is that since no one has fully posted CS's on the wiki, even OOC'ly I don't know who has what equipment exactly and not everyone posts "X uses his subvocal mic to talk to the team and say Y." Sure I can ferret out some guesses from the IC posts, but even then I don't like to assume.

Besides I know MK's been posting communications in Orange for a while now while everyone else was using yellow... just clarifying helps ME out tremendously which is why I asked.

While we're on the subject, as for DNI, if only one person has DNI and is using "thought" just how exactly does that translate to those who are not using DNI? I've always wondered how that comes across to other players on a network like the one Krait cobbled together and whatnot. Sorry I don't rules lawyer, so I know enough to be dangerous making assumptions, or dangerous enough to give opinions.

Well, somewhere along the way there would be a translation. In either the commlink of the sender or the receiver, the thought-data would be transfered into either audio or text data.

Ok, that makes sense and sticks with the general impression I've been operating with.

I just thought that the difference between receiving voice vs. text communication is how it's processed. Not every character in this game is outfitted with DNI and is capable of multi-tasking like a fiend Plus I think there's a difference between hearing and seeing a message and the potential comprehension of the info depending on what else that character is doing at the time..

Infiltration Roll: 3 Agi - 1 for defaulting: 1, 4 = 0 hits. Hmm, I suppose that's a critical glitch.

Also, just for clarity, all of Carla's messages have all been sent in text.

Regarding the color scheme for text/voice messages, is it not possible that someone could, say, input a voice message that gets sent to persons A and B, but A receives the message as a voice recording while B receives the message as a text-file? I imagine that voice-to-text technology might not be all that uncommon in Shadowrun's setting.

I suppose that, for simplicity, we should just assume that a yellow message is received as a text message by ALL recipients, and an orange message is received as a voice recording by ALL recipients

Wow, lots of OOC Let´s see, there are so many points I wanted to comment to...

1 - Comlink Periphery in Teammode:
As far as I understand it, using the method adamu sugested would basically make the teammode useless, because all communication with wifi peripherals is unencrypted, since A noone except John uses encryption-software so far and B as adamu ruled, only stuff sent from an encryption running sorce is encrypted - thus no sorce that can´t run an encryption utility itself, can send encrypted stuff. This of course means, that wifi peripherals are inherently prone to interception, but I didn´t argue about it, since it fits John paranoid standards (and my personal taste) anyway and he´d simply assume everyone should use cables or skinlinks and the wired earspeakers that are included in standard comlinks. Also, this whole periphery problem realy only dawned to me compleatly, when Carla last asked about it.
I have two alternate suggestions for that problem:
a) All peripherals could get all imput (encrypted) from John, while sending their output (not encrypted) to the individual coms, which are sending w/o encryption, anyway. That way, the content John send stays encrypted. Of course that means, that all peripherals would need the correct code/frequency lists, which would be easy, if they had been linked to the com non-wirelessly at some point, since the stuff was implemented.
b) (this is just a cheap improvement in case adamu says that option a) dosn´t work or isn´t yet implemented for some reason) The individual coms could at least reduce signal strength to minimum any time they are sending s.th. to the peripherals, to reduce the risk of interception.
If none of this is ok, I´d simply do as I intended in the first place - send one burst of information and tell everyone to go back to regular communication at the end of that message.

2 - Mode of Communication
I have a counter-proposal to different colors. (sorry for using orange some time ago, I didn´t remember the color correctly). Why not just use quotes for "voice", italic for thought and nothing for text? I have been doing so, all the time (well except thought, since I never used that for anything else but introspection). Though nobody noticed, apearently. It really dosn´t make that much extra work (less then different colors)!
As for how a message is actually received, I allways asumed, that that depends on the receiving com´s settings. I.e. if a text message is received, it could be displayed on an imagelink. If none is available, it could either be displayed on the screen -waiting to be read- or converted into voice. John does that all the time, as has been described in my ICs a few times IIRC - of course for him, changing output settings is much easyer then to anyone without DNI.

more to come...

EDIT: Allright, it looks like that actually was everythign I wanted to comment to, ATM, so, working on an IC right now...

EDIT2: Still working on IC, just thought I´d post what I wrote so far..

hehehe, amazing how well the strategy of lighting small fires works.
I really admire your character (and you, of course) MK, its a shame we had to get off on the wrong foot.

I personally like the idea of quotes and italics (still keeping yellow to indicate it is a message, I presume) over the multi-colour system, but I shan't mention the point again.

I love how we have come to a wonderful little nexus... just waiting to see what will happen next.

Wow - once again, I come home from work to find some of the most challenging and delightful GMing ever awaiting me. You guys all rock.

Very busy tonight - I am going to actually play the GAME first, and if time allows try to answer all these peripheral nightmare concerns about posting style and commlinks.

Almost done - anyone online hold your horses just a moment - one more IC post and everyone will be clear to act.

Whew - okay - everyone is at the same point in time, and we now know what has happened in all theaters of warfare, and what each of you perceives of all that.

So that makes everyone clear to post.

@Vegas (and MJ too) - Obviously in a perfect world MJ will be able to post soon. But since he just let us know he might be too busy for the moment, Vegas, please don't let that stop your posting/acting.
Right now, it would be really not be appropriate for me to out-and-out run his character - too many important decisions to be made. So Vegas, if you are ready to post and he hasn't, please control him STRATEGICALLY.
Which is to say, you don't have to role-play him, you don't have to roll dice for him, and you don't have to decide HOW he does anything - I can handle all that if we need a post from him and he doesn't have a chance to play.
What I do need you to do (IF he can't post himself) is just to indicate - IC or OOC - what general goal/task he embarks upon. Once you have tasked him in that way, hopefully he will have time, and if not I can take the details from there.

Thats pretty much all I can muster up IC wise for tonight. Short and to the point.
So; Conall will do his VERY best to avoid the troll coming their way... he'll even go as far as to avoid looking at him, but won't go as far as to make a detour to get to the emergency exit.

Hey adamu, are you going to nail me for that critical glitch on the infiltration roll?

Also, were the keys left in the van?

I figure that between having a slight head start, having a slightly shorter distance to travel, and not having a avoid GREAT Mac, Naguel manages to arrive at the back door a good handful of seconds before Conell. If anyone thinks I am mistaken in this, please let me know.

Cheers!
DV

P.S. I am pretty damned tired tonight as well, hence the short, uningenius post.

EDIT: I have needed to make a few edits to my post. Currently in the processes of finishing them up. Curse me tired and slow mind.

Well, you also gestured and did a lot of stumbling around - plus Conall stated he actually wouldn't detour for the troll's sake.
But yes, I agree that you beat him to the door - though not by much - as you will see in the upcoming IC post, you go through the door, but it hasn't even closed behind you before Conall reaches it.

The biggest problem is the timestamp - which is very crucial in this scene! - remember to stamp the time at the END of your posted action. You jumped back in time to a point previous to other posted actions that you reacted to. Please edit your time stamp to 20:56:01.

Krait should at least have time to verbally respond to EJ in the back alley before you make it out there.

Mister Juan, you can post up to 20:56:01, when you watch the Hispanic guy go out the door and are only about three meters behind him, but please don't go past that until Krait catches up to 20:56:01.

After that point, all players in or approaching the back alley - we will have to way slow down so that who goes first doesn't become a matter of just who gets online first!

So from the 20:56:01 point, I don't know what will happen or whether open hostilities will break out, but I will need initiative and OOC/PM declarations from that point. With those, I will try to conduct things in a rules-based and equitable manner.

Vegas and BR - you are both free to post forward one step at a time without bothering with initiative/formal declarations.

Didn't mention this in the last IC post, cuz I couldn't think of a slick way to describe it, but the emergency back door has one of those thingies at the top that keep it from slamming or shutting fast.

Sorry about that, adamu. I edited my post.

Whoops! Sorry about the timestamp. Will fix.

EDIT:

Initiative

adamu--hope to hell I'm doing this right. Sorry I don't have a time date stamp yet.

I am equipped as for a meet per our offline discussions. My comm link is off.

Upon arriving at the alley, I will roll initiative of 3 2 [5] 3 4 [5] [5] 2 [6] 3 4 = 15

My first actions will be ready weapon extendable baton and observe in detail.

Dude - you don't need to bother with a timestamp here in the OOC thread, so no worries there.

For the observe in detail, if you want a chance to see all sorts of keen hidden stuff, give me a roll. In SR4 that's Intuition + Perception (+3 dice for actively observing). Otherwise, I will clue you in on what you see very soon -

EVERYONE - I will be making a post sometime today detailing sightlines in the back alley. No rush on that since Jack is only observing at the moment, Naguel and Conall haven't actually arrived yet, and we just need to wait for MK's next post before I can start working my way through initiatives and declarations.

Remember - along with your initiatives, you need to declare actions - no fair waiting on others (unless you Delay). If you want privacy, PM me.

Jack - the ready weapon and observe will easily take place within the time Krait is acting next, so you are still able to declare actions (including Delay) for the 22:56:01 jump-off.

EVERYONE - Jack is an experienced and excellent SR player from way back. However, this is his first foray into both SR4 and forum gaming, so let's all lend him a hand.

Adamu

Here's the rolls for Etain's plan to take care of the troll before getting to deal with Vanity. I have a post worked up halfway but I need to find the words that match the rolls

Overcasting: Influence (F6, DV 4)
Magic (5) + Spellcasting (5) = 10 dice
[5] 1 3 [6] [5] 3 [6] [6] 1 [6] Hits:6 (+1 TH)

Drain DV = (6/2) +1 = 4
Charisma (5) + Willpower (4) = 9 dice
[5] 4 4 2 2 [5] 1 [5] [5] Hits:4 (+1 TH)
1P (assuming the +1 TH from Bliss applies here, if not she's free and clear, even so Pain Resist 3 she won't feel it)

Just in case she can get any help from her negotiation ability while using influence here..
Charisma (5) + Negotiations (3) + Moon Maiden Bonus (2) = 10 dice
2 [5] [5] 4 [6] [6] 2 [5] [6] 2 Hits:6 (+1 TH)

ICed a short response to EJ - figured there wouldn´t be enough time for anything more, that I´d have to say, so I´m keeping the rest for later (in case there will be any 'later'). Also, as I understand, I should throw my tremendous Initiative pool now, and wait for my pass, before I react to Naguel opening the door (btw, do I see the door/him?).

Excell-dice rock and roll:
Composure Test for kicks (gray zoo and all) - 6 hits, guess I´m cool
Social roll (Con or maybe Etiquette) to gain EJ´s trust (as much as Johnsons can be trusted) - 6 hits, he might be distracted, too, and please check, if using my knowlede skill is ok in this context
Initiative - 9 with combat paralysis, 10 without.
Perception - 7 hits. Though it was time for a new one, since I did the last one, when I entered the bar.



Is there any cover in the ally in case a firefight breaks out? As soon as I can after noticing Naguel coming outdoors, I´d like to send a message to Conall/the team.

@ Jack Robustus: Wellcome aboard!

EDIT: Apart from talking and watching, there´s nothing I´d like to do, yet. If lead starts flying right away, I´ll run for cover if there is any and draw the pistol. The message for Conall/Team will be approximately as follows, In case you want to know it in advance:

Since I presume I rolled initiative for the round starting at 20:56:01, I can't post me actions to go along with that Initiative till you tell me IC what I see upon walking through the door.

EDIT: I need details if possible, including distance between myself and Krait, myself and EJ, Krait and EJ.

@Vegas - okay, your action is resolved in the IC. Need you to wait now until we plow through the next three seconds in the alley.

@BlueRondo - the two gangers now start walking back to the van, per the signal.

Situation in alley at 22:56:01


Okay, I am going to lay this out a couple of ways, step by step, and hopefully it will be crystal clear for everyone.

At the NW corner of the bar the alley forms an intersection. North/south and East/west - right there at the upper left corner of the map.

The alley is 3 meters wide.

It is partial lighting.

There are not major objects near the intersection.

Starting five meters from the intersection in all directions there are dumpsters and other miscellany. If we need specifics, that can be resolved later.

Evil Jones is in the center of the intersection. He is facing south, but will also turn to look when the emergency exit opens.
His LOS, based on current facing, includes Krait (2m away) and Naguel (3m away).

Krait is two meters south of Evil Jones, which puts him one meter into the southbound alley. He is facing north, but turns to look when Naguel comes out.
His LOS, based on current facing, includes Evil Jones (2m) and Naguel (4m) and the grizzly bear (8m).

Naguel is just coming out the door, so basically the middle of the eastbound alley, two meters in from the intersection.
His LOS, based on current facing, includes Evil Jones (3m) and Krait (4m). He knows Paddy is 3m behind him. He cannot see the grizzly bear, as it is too far up the northbound alley.

Paddy is just coming up on the slowly closing door - so think of the doorway as equidistant between Naguel and Paddy.
His LOS, based on current facing, includes Naguel (3m).

The grizzly bear, four meters up the northbound alley, can see Evil Jones' back (6m) and Krait's face (8m), and certainly hear someone bursting out the back door.

Okay, I think that is clear enough that we could all draw it out and come up with the same thing. Fits very well into a tic-tac-toe sort of quadrant pattern, actually, except the Grizzly is a bit far north.

Vegas, you could put this on the map, but I think it is going to change a lot and rapidly.

Posting and PMing has come faster than I expected - happy! - what rolls I don't have I will make. I am still waiting on declarations from one, maybe two people.

Once I have them, I will resolve as quickly as possible.

It goes faster if people who have free time post a few resistance-sorts of rolls. If things are moving fast and one person's resist is all that's stopping posting, I will roll for what I don't have from you.

No more IC except from Blue Rondo - if inclined - until I say so, please.

Yeah, I really don't want to play "juggle the map" over and over and over for every 3 seconds of movement

However I'd be happy to try to work up a bit of a drawing to lay everything out and position people at the point I get to make the map (likely tomorrow) unless the whole scene is over before it begins

I can make it work if it becomes necessary to place (and move) PCs locations.

We'll play it by ear.

You're a sweetie as always.

Since I don't post on Sunday, I am sure it will not be over by tomorrow...

Map is done. Not 100% perfect to scale considering how small Humpty's Dump is in reference to the alleys, but for a quick hit, you at least get the feeling. Adamu if the positioning isn't quite right, let me know and I'll adjust.

Each 2 boxes on the grid are approx. 1m.

Hope this helps

Humpty's Dump Altercation Map It's at the bottom of the locations page.

The more that I mess with the HB wiki, the more I really want to split the Up From the Bottom and the Hitting Bottom 1st Wave groups to separate wikis, or at least divide all the pages accordingly since the info is getting LONG the more places we visit in the games. Unless there's still the possibility that the two teams will cross paths ;P

Vegas - you're an angel. A freaking digital fairy godmother. The placement is perfect, except maybe (and I didn't mention this, so the fault is all mine) that the bear (you even made the dot gray!) is close to the east wall - I only even mention it so that DV and MJ don't mistakenly think they have LOS on it.

That's another karma point for you.

Hey, why is my dot PINK!!!




Just kidding, I don´t mind


Not to be nit-picking -it dosn´t realy bother me- but from the internal map of HB, the building would either have to be sort of L-shaped (though a realy stubby L, with the top pointing to the west) or the emergency exit can´t be right at the corner of the building but at least 1 or 2 meters to the east. Otherwise the building couldn´t accomodate for the dressing-room (and that dressingroom has been entered by Big Glen, so it can´t be just .25 m²). As I said, it dosn´t bother me that much and I wouldn´t ask to change the map - just bothers me enough, to mention

Some resistance rolls (rolled body and armor independently, so you can just ad them to the body rolls if armor aplyes):



Also, if I don´t get involved in a fight, I´ll keep talking to EJ, as I said. The first 3 seconds of talk would be as follows:



EDIT: Almost forgot, do I hear St. Pierre walk back to the car? That would spawn another message on team-speak (in adition to the information for Paddy):



Also, here´s a Leadership Roll, to retain EJ´s attention, even while a brawl breaks out 3 meters away from him: 5 hits w/o mods (he´s obviously suspicious, but being Mr. J might give me a slight boost for superior rank or authority).

Vegas - I stepped away from the computer and realized I had only replied to half your last post.



Alas, we have been playing this campaign for two years, and I don't mind saying that we are only scratching the surface of my original long-term story arc. And that's all I'm going to say regarding the ongoing possibility of the two teams meeting.

But you are the Undisputed Queen of the Wiki. If it needs to be split, do what needs doing. Both parts will still exist and be easily accessible, so I don't see how it could be a bad thing if you think it is worthwhile to do.

Actually, Big Glen entered the office behind the bar. But you are right, we have not allowed for the dressing room. Oh - here we go, the door leads to a very small landing to a stairway that leads to a basement under the building!

Time-space warp avoided!

And the other contingencies noted. All that helps me take the guesswork out of exactly what you will want to do based on whatever happens before your turn comes up. Good stuff.

Glad you approve and Yay karma! But yes, I made the dot gray just for you

I can easily shift it to the east wall.

Yup.. Map's edited to move the Bear to the East wall.

I probably will start messing with the Wiki when I get the opportunity and if I have more free time. I promise you'll be able to find everything as I won't get rid of anything, but just "redecorate" it all

Okay - my IC post resolves the Initiative Pass 1, except for the resolution of melee between Naguel and Paddy.

MJ - as it stands, you will not tag him with your attack. If you want to use Edge, say so by Monday. In any case, I will tack the final result of that attack onto my IC post on Monday.

In the meantime, I need declarations from everyone that has a second pass.

Please continue the IC freeze for now.

@adamu
You need any rolls from me? I should be mostly in today.

I will also be checking sporadically all day- have a few papers to write so I shall never be far from the computer.

I'd guess at this point Adamu is off the boards till his monday since he doesn't post on sundays.

What timeszones are people in? I am in GMT -5 (eastern standard).

GMT -5 here as well.

GMT -6 here (CST) (and a website states *I* am at GMT -5 right now, go figure. DST perhaps?)

Adamu is in Japan and I believe GMT +9

and I believe MJ is on GMT -4 (Montreal/EST)

and MK is somewhere in Germany, GMT +1

And yes, I *AM* a wealth of semi-useless information.

(and even SAD to think this is my 2000th post on the DSF boards)

I´m MET (GMT+1), adamu is GMT+9 I think, everyone else is aproximatly your time +/- 1 hour, IIRC.


@ adamu
Did you miss my declaraion for the message to Carla or just decided that it´s not enough time or still to unclear which would aply? Just wanted to make sure you did see it.



EDIT: Imagin how sad it is to me, to post this stuff on my 659th post (post-crash) and being bet at it by you as well

And now all my pre-crash posts are taged as Guest_MK Ultra_* so I can´t even look up which post number this would realy be :.(

I was wondering what time zone Adamu was in, since we seemed to have opposite cycles. So it must be Sunday morning for him then. Ah well, the wait just builds up the anticipation.

I am at GMT -8 (PST)

Hey Jack, I think we are supposed to have an IC freeze for now, and just PM Adamu with our actions and dice rolls.

btw, Adam, how high, in meters, are the buildings around me, please? And am I correct in presuming they are made of brick, or would they be concrete or another material?

Divine Virus - thanks for pointing out the IC freeze.

I remember when I first started playing on the boards, I made of lot of similar, very minor errors, and I always appreciated people helping out.

As it happens, the IC post is fine. It comes at precisely the right moment, and essentially only states an intention, not an effect. So basically it is just color, and, if anything, is an advantage to the other players, as they now know what the ork intends to do.

I SEE ALL!

No, seriously, yeah, I saw it. Based on your earlier perception test, you do hear them walking away. And you do still have enough actions left in your one pass for the message.
I should have told you that, since you only have one pass, I decided to IC the sending of that message until we get into the next pass - both to avoid the sense that Krait suddenly freezes for two seconds, and also because I am not really sure, based on what is going down, whether you would ask for the back-up in the alley or in the bar.
So once we see how second pass goes, I will decide. (Sorry, can't let you decide at this point, since that would be an unfair advantage, since everyone is required to declare their actions/contingencies blind to the other players' declarations.)
But the message will go out.

@Everyone - well, I THOUGHT I was going to resolve all of the second initiative pass and maybe the third tonight, but things got a bit dramatic, and I had to get a clarification from one player. Once I have that we will move forward.

Note also that I am having fun writing a lot of the IC for this fight.

As you that have been with the game a while know, usually I just announce the results OOC and let you right your own fluffy, bloody and angst-ridden IC posts, but this situation is just too darned complex - I have to keep much closer control.

So sorry to usurp you cool ICing opportunities. Next time, if and when things are a bit less multi-layered, I will go back to the old system.

Sorry about the long delay, but I finally have time to address some of the ideas in the posting style discussion a ways back.



That is from the very first page of this thread.

I still like it - it is intuitive and simple. I don't want a lot of extra complication, and I don't want every color of the rainbow as I have seen elsewhere.
I do like the aqua for mindlink, telepathy and the like.

As for the text/voice thing, although it bothered me for a long time, a point made by Vegas pretty much solved the problem.

Basically, whether the sender uses voice, DNI, or text, the receiver can indeed have his commlink set up to convert any of those formats into voice (for earbuds or speaker) or text (for AR or screen). So it really doesn't matter in most cases how it is sent.

For RP flavor, it would be fun if both ends specified in their IC which it was (Etain HEARD the message; Carla TYPED the message; whatever), but if you forget it's not usually a big deal.

If it matters, I will let you know.

One time it will matter is if someone is attempting to use social dice through telecommunications - a lot will be lost simply typing, or speaking and having text received. To get full credit in most such cases, you will want voice and preferably video seen and heard by target.

So please let's just keep using yellow to simply signify digital/wireless communications.

[quote name='Divine Virus' date='Mar 30 2008, 01:23 PM' post='658854'

btw, Adam, how high, in meters, are the buildings around me, please? And am I correct in presuming they are made of brick, or would they be concrete or another material?
[/quote]

Four meters. All the buildings right around you are walled and roofed with corrugated metal siding.

D.V. thanks for pointing that out. As a newbie, I am a bit overeager. As time goes by I am sure I will settle down.

BTW everyone should know that I won't be posting on Tuesdays. It's my one day off with my wife, so all focus is on her, unless she gets screwed into having to work that day.