Dumpshock Forums > Chummer Character Generator

LonePaladin

Apr 28 2011, 02:43 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 27 2011, 05:08 PM)

This is actually correct as far as I understand it.

(SR4A 195, lower left corner under "Adept Powers"). If you only have 1 Power Point, then you only have a MAG score of 1. The maximum level you can have in any power is equal to your MAG score. In the case you illustrated, a MAG score of 1 means you can only have Critical Strike Rating 1. When you try to put it to Rating 2, it does not let you because that would exceed your MAG score. If you increase your MAG score to 2, you will then be allowed to put Critical Strike to Rating 2.

You can have a Magic attribute higher than your total Power Points, if you're a mystic adept.

Nebular

Apr 28 2011, 04:13 AM

Right. At the moment though there is no way to split MAG between Adept and Magician, so having a maximum of 1 Power Point is the same as having MAG 1 in the app right now. So what your description tells me is that your MAG score was set to 1 at the time, so the Power wouldn't let you put your Rating any higher which is technically correct. Of course I'm just assuming your MAG score was 1 based on what you said. Was it different when you tried this? When you do split your MAG between Adept and Magician, do you use the character's MAG score or the MAG invested in Adept for determining max Rating?

Wizard_Thoarin

Apr 28 2011, 04:36 AM

I guess I need to do some double checking, but it seems odd to me that the Fomori metavariant pays for both troll and fomori races. Unless I haven't done enough reading in Runners Companion the cost for a metavariant in build points replaces but does not add on to the cost of the base race. Also, it seems the "Metagenetic Improvement (Body)" listed in the Formori qualities is not boosting the min/max body attribute by the 1 point its supposed to. Maybe the metavariants should just be listed under the race selection list box maybe indented or bulleted under the base race.

I haven't checked the other metavariants yet, although I need to look at the Minotaur also since I have both a Minotaur and Fomori in my gaming group.

Nebular

Apr 28 2011, 04:37 AM

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 26 2011, 07:20 AM)

- Augmented attributes from cyberlimbs is calculated weirdly, it seems to take into account only attribute enhancements, but not the cyberlimb customization. Additionaly, the augmented attribute is "natural" + "highest enhancement", where it should be the averaged value of the limbs.

For some reason the combination of the descriptions and the examples in the book is making my brain hurt. I obviously don't have it right in the app and am fighting to get my head around this. Let me see if I've got this straight...

The Street Samurai example in SR4A just lists the Enhancements which I think is one of the pieces that's confusing me because it looks as though Enhanced X directly improves that Attribute by the selected amount (but there are a number of problems with the example characters in that book so why should this one be any different).

I've got a Human with STR 4. Drop in a Full Cyberarm. Give it Customized Strength 6 (natural maximum). I would now have STR 4 (6), correct? In order for it to become 4 (7), I would need to add Enhanced Strength 1?

Same Human. Full Cyberarm again. This time I only add Enhanced Strength 1. Would my STR be 4 (5), even though limbs are supposedly STR 3 without enhancements? The example character certainly make it look that way. As I had mentioned, they make it look as though Enhanced Strength improves your character's STR, regardless of the STR the limb is at.

redwulf25

Apr 28 2011, 04:40 AM

Another thing that appears to be hiding are the OS's for Comlinks. I don't see them under Comlink or communication, or electronic accessory or Misc. Electronics. For that matter I don't see hacking programs. Are hackers not supported yet or do I just not know where to look?

Also I don't know what the system wants when it asks me for a "value" when I buy a fake SIN.

Nebular

Apr 28 2011, 04:43 AM

QUOTE (Wizard_Thoarin @ Apr 27 2011, 11:36 PM)

I guess I need to do some double checking, but it seems odd to me that the Fomori metavariant pays for both troll and fomori races. Unless I haven't done enough reading in Runners Companion the cost for a metavariant in build points replaces but does not add on to the cost of the base race. Also, it seems the "Metagenetic Improvement (Body)" listed in the Formori qualities is not boosting the min/max body attribute by the 1 point its supposed to. Maybe the metavariants should just be listed under the race selection list box maybe indented or bulleted under the base race.

I haven't checked the other metavariants yet, although I need to look at the Minotaur also since I have both a Minotaur and Fomori in my gaming group.

Yikes. Right you are. The Metavariant BP is instead of the Metatype BP, not in addition to. Looks like a change I made to get support in for Sapients caused the Metavariants to stop selecting their Qualities when you take them. These will be fixed in the next update.

whatevs

Apr 28 2011, 11:33 AM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ Apr 28 2011, 05:40 AM)

Another thing that appears to be hiding are the OS's for Comlinks. I don't see them under Comlink or communication, or electronic accessory or Misc. Electronics. For that matter I don't see hacking programs. Are hackers not supported yet or do I just not know where to look?

Also I don't know what the system wants when it asks me for a "value" when I buy a fake SIN.

Commlink os needs to be added as a mod to a commlink. So pick a commlink, then right click the commlink in your gear list, choose 'add modification' and you should be good to go.

Fake sin's have a rating as per raw. The higher the rating, the more systems they can fool. Same with fake licences.

Argent

Apr 28 2011, 12:08 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 27 2011, 06:08 PM)

This is actually correct as far as I understand it.

(SR4A 195, lower left corner under "Adept Powers"). If you only have 1 Power Point, then you only have a MAG score of 1. The maximum level you can have in any power is equal to your MAG score. In the case you illustrated, a MAG score of 1 means you can only have Critical Strike Rating 1. When you try to put it to Rating 2, it does not let you because that would exceed your MAG score. If you increase your MAG score to 2, you will then be allowed to put Critical Strike to Rating 2.

Sorry about that Nebular. You are right! The program was not letting my rating go beyond one since my magic was only rating 1. I added another power at rating 1 which allowed me to use the rest of my remaining power point.

Argent

Apr 28 2011, 12:40 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 27 2011, 11:37 PM)

For some reason the combination of the descriptions and the examples in the book is making my brain hurt. I obviously don't have it right in the app and am fighting to get my head around this. Let me see if I've got this straight...

The Street Samurai example in SR4A just lists the Enhancements which I think is one of the pieces that's confusing me because it looks as though Enhanced X directly improves that Attribute by the selected amount (but there are a number of problems with the example characters in that book so why should this one be any different).

I've got a Human with STR 4. Drop in a Full Cyberarm. Give it Customized Strength 6 (natural maximum). I would now have STR 4 (6), correct? In order for it to become 4 (7), I would need to add Enhanced Strength 1?

Same Human. Full Cyberarm again. This time I only add Enhanced Strength 1. Would my STR be 4 (5), even though limbs are supposedly STR 3 without enhancements? The example character certainly make it look that way. As I had mentioned, they make it look as though Enhanced Strength improves your character's STR, regardless of the STR the limb is at.

OK, I will do my best to explain it. Lets say your character has a Body 2, Strength 3, Agility 3. He then buys a standard right cyber arm with a body 4, strength 5, agility 4 ( he used enhancements to boost the limb above 3 for each attribute) then he buys a customized left leg with a body 6, strength 6, agility 6 ( no enhancements required up to racial max). Here is how you figure it all out:

Formula: (Natural Attribute + Cyberlimb attribute 1 + cyberlimb attribute 2...ect) / total amount of attributes used in formula then rounded down= Augmented Attribute

Body: 2+4+6=12 then 12/3 round down = 4
Strength: 3+5+6=14 then 14/3 round down = 4
Agility: 3+4+6=13 then 13/3 round down = 4

So the correct display for attributes would be:

Body: 2(4)
Strength: 3(4)
Agility: 3(4)

This assumes that for most general actions/activities your body must balance itself out. When you take a specific action like punch with cyberarm or kick with cyber leg or jump with cyber legs then you would use that cyberlimbs attribute flat out. Enhancements only enhance the cyberlimb you purchased it for. Hope this helps.

Nebular

Apr 28 2011, 01:18 PM

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 28 2011, 05:33 AM)

Commlink os needs to be added as a mod to a commlink. So pick a commlink, then right click the commlink in your gear list, choose 'add modification' and you should be good to go.

Already there. Commlink Operating System is one of the categories when you add Accessories to a Commlink which lets you add the OS. From there you can also add Commlink Upgrades (Response and Signal) and Commlink Operating System Upgrade (Firewall and System).

Nebular

Apr 28 2011, 01:26 PM

QUOTE (Argent @ Apr 28 2011, 06:40 AM)

OK, I will do my best to explain it. Lets say your character has a Body 2, Strength 3, Agility 3. He then buys a standard right cyber arm with a body 4, strength 5, agility 4 ( he used enhancements to boost the limb above 3 for each attribute) then he buys a customized left leg with a body 6, strength 6, agility 6 ( no enhancements required up to racial max). Here is how you figure it all out:

Formula: (Natural Attribute + Cyberlimb attribute 1 + cyberlimb attribute 2...ect) / total amount of attributes used in formula then rounded down= Augmented Attribute

Body: 2+4+6=12 then 12/3 round down = 4
Strength: 3+5+6=14 then 14/3 round down = 4
Agility: 3+4+6=13 then 13/3 round down = 4

So the correct display for attributes would be:

Body: 2(4)
Strength: 3(4)
Agility: 3(4)

This assumes that for most general actions/activities your body must balance itself out. When you take a specific action like punch with cyberarm or kick with cyber leg or jump with cyber legs then you would use that cyberlimbs attribute flat out. Enhancements only enhance the cyberlimb you purchased it for. Hope this helps.

So if I wanted Strength on that leg, I would need to add Enhanced Strength 1 because it has already hit the metatype maximum for STR, correct? In that case the STR formula would change to 3+5+7=15, 15/3 = 5 for STR 3(5)? If that's the case, then I think I've got it! Thanks!

Bigity

Apr 28 2011, 01:48 PM

Now my brain hurts.

Argent

Apr 28 2011, 04:16 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 28 2011, 09:26 AM)

So if I wanted Strength on that leg, I would need to add Enhanced Strength 1 because it has already hit the metatype maximum for STR, correct? In that case the STR formula would change to 3+5+7=15, 15/3 = 5 for STR 3(5)? If that's the case, then I think I've got it! Thanks!

You got it sir, on both counts!

redwulf25

Apr 28 2011, 06:43 PM

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 28 2011, 06:33 AM)

Commlink os needs to be added as a mod to a commlink. So pick a commlink, then right click the commlink in your gear list, choose 'add modification' and you should be good to go.

Thanks.

QUOTE

Fake sin's have a rating as per raw. The higher the rating, the more systems they can fool. Same with fake licences.

I realize that, but you select the rating from a drop down menu when you buy it. So that's just for pricing and you still have to put the rating in?

redwulf25

Apr 28 2011, 07:43 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 28 2011, 09:18 AM)

Already there. Commlink Operating System is one of the categories when you add Accessories to a Commlink which lets you add the OS. From there you can also add Commlink Upgrades (Response and Signal) and Commlink Operating System Upgrade (Firewall and System).

Ah-hah! found my issue I need to use the add as plug in command.

Yerameyahu

Apr 28 2011, 08:45 PM

Are we sure you don't always use 5 limbs for the overall average calculation? So, 3 of the natural, and cyber-1 and cyber-2, all over 5? It doesn't really make sense the other way, and things like 'legs-only' tests use the weakest link, IIRC.

whatevs

Apr 29 2011, 01:08 AM

Quick Technical Issue: Looks like specializations of knowledge skills are taking away skill points, but not adding any dice. Unless I've got it wrong.

whatevs

Apr 29 2011, 01:35 AM

One more note about character mug shot: might want to mention that the dimensions for the shot need to be roughly 210px wide x 310px high.

whatevs

Apr 29 2011, 01:45 AM

Suggestion: on the character sheet, might want to consider shading every second line light greay in the following areas for readability:

Actve Skills
Knowledge Skills
Contacts
Spells
Gear

Argent

Apr 29 2011, 02:09 AM

Wow! I have just done a ton of reading and research on the forums and the rule books and now my brain hurts. Well pg 343 of SR4A says:

1. for specific limb use limb attributes
2. in any other case use the average value of all limbs
3. for a task that requires careful coordination of several limbs, use the value of the weakest limb.

For a basic character sheet it would make sense to me that you would display the average augmented attribute to cover most cases (#2)

So i think my previous understanding was a little wrong so I would like to offer a revision to the formula. The general consensus in the forums is that the skull is usually left out of attribute avarages and it makes sense to me so I will do the same. Limbs are considered both arms, both legs, and torso...total 5 limbs.

Augmented attribute= Cyber limbs + meat limbs / 5(total limbs)

6(cyber torso)+3(left cyber arm)+5 (left cyber leg)+3(meat right arm)+3(meat right leg)= 20/5 = 4
Displayed as Body: 3(4)

Full conversion razor boys is where I have some beefs. Some people like the idea of once going full cyber then you don't have to average in the natural ratings, just the cyber ones. I think that leads to alot of characters that start with Natural body,agility, and strength ratings of one because who cares, it won't count anyways. I think we all see how this can be abused. The meat body is the foundation on which the cyber body is built so while it will only affect it minimally, it should still affect the attribute ratings.

Full cyberlimb replacemnt formula.
Augmented attribute= natural rating + cyber limbs / 6 (5 total limbs +1 for the base attribute rating)

6(cyber torso)+6(left cyber arm)+6(left cyber leg)+6(cyber right arm)+6(cyber right leg)+3(natural rating)= 33/6 = 5
Displayed as Body: 3(5)

How does this look to everyone? Enhancements would still work the same way as before, just effecting that particular limb, but getting avaraged in just like normal.

redwulf25

Apr 29 2011, 03:08 AM

Odd error. While modifying a Horizon-double revolution with an Engine Customization for Acceleration I got an error that says the object reference isn't set to an instance of an object. I've included the details it give me in a spoiler box in case it helps tell you what went wrong.

[ Spoiler ]

CODE

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
   at Chummer.Vehicle.get_TotalAccel()
   at Chummer.frmCreate.RefreshSelectedVehicle()
   at Chummer.frmCreate.treVehicles_AfterSelect(Object sender, TreeViewEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.OnAfterSelect(TreeViewEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.TvnSelected(NMTREEVIEW* nmtv)
   at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.WmNotify(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.TreeView.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.225 (RTMGDR.030319-2200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
Chummer
    Assembly Version: 0.0.0.57
    Win32 Version: 0.0.0.57
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Martin/Desktop/Shadowrun/Chummer.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

Wizard_Thoarin

Apr 29 2011, 03:11 AM

I don't think I'd consider the Torso a limb... Body and Head are usually considered the trunk of the body.

Yerameyahu

Apr 29 2011, 03:12 AM

Argent, while I appreciate anti-munchkinry as much as anyone, 5-limb *customized* enhanced cyber is fairly prohibitive in cost and Essence already; I'm not sure how much of an actual problem it is. In addition, new house rules are great, but are they great in a chargen program?

Your 1-2-3 overview of the cyberlimb attributes RAW seemed right on, to me. AFAIK, the 5 'limbs' are indeed legs, arms, and torso.

LonePaladin

Apr 29 2011, 03:17 AM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ Apr 27 2011, 10:40 PM)

Also I don't know what the system wants when it asks me for a "value" when I buy a fake SIN.

Easy. Your fake ID's name. "John Smith" or "Ali t'Buger".

Nebular

Apr 29 2011, 03:51 AM

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 28 2011, 08:08 PM)

Quick Technical Issue: Looks like specializations of knowledge skills are taking away skill points, but not adding any dice. Unless I've got it wrong.

This is a little misleading in the generator itself. If you view the character sheet, the Skill shows its base value and the Specialization total. I'll add the Specialization amount to the Skill Rating for the next update, so it will so 3(5) instead of just 3.

QUOTE (whatevs @ Apr 28 2011, 08:45 PM)

Suggestion: on the character sheet, might want to consider shading every second line light greay in the following areas for readability:

Actve Skills
Knowledge Skills
Contacts
Spells
Gear

I intended to do this after I got the basics of the sheet working, and then I completely forgot about it. I've added it to the list o' stuff so it actually gets done. Thanks for reminding me.

Nebular

Apr 29 2011, 03:54 AM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ Apr 28 2011, 10:08 PM)

Odd error. While modifying a Horizon-double revolution with an Engine Customization for Acceleration I got an error that says the object reference isn't set to an instance of an object. I've included the details it give me in a spoiler box in case it helps tell you what went wrong.

I'll have a look at this tomorrow and see what's misbehaving. Should be fixed in the next update.

Nebular

Apr 29 2011, 04:03 AM

Wow. You step out for part of the evening for a band rehearsal and things go wild.

So our old friends the Cyberlimbs. I have Cyberlimbs reporting their Attributes now so the difficult part is taken care of. Just have the figuring out the augmented value left, so I want to make sure that what I understand from everything said here is correct and will be implemented properly. Here we go...

2 Legs + 2 Arms + Torso = all 5 limbs. If a limb isn't replaced, you use the character's Attributes. If it is replaced, you use the Attribute of the limb. Formula is (Leg + Leg + Arm + Arm + Torso) / 5 = the Augmented score. Character has STR 3. Leg (cyber) STR 5 + Leg (meat) STR 3 + Arm (cyber) STR 6 + Arm (meat) 3 + Torso (meat) 3 = 20. 20 / 5 = 4. So the character would show STR 3(4). Correct?

Yerameyahu

Apr 29 2011, 04:34 AM

I think that is right. It's up to the GM to know the special cases (single limb, coordinated limbs, natural Body for toxins/drugs/disease, etc.).

Nebular

Apr 29 2011, 04:42 AM

Agreed. Special cases are another demon altogether and are up to the player/GM to handle. This will be in the next update then so we can all make sure I did it right.

ggodo

Apr 29 2011, 04:59 AM

Watching you two talk is confusing. Anyway, it's not showing my Complex Forms anywhere on the printed character sheet. Am I doing it wrong?

Leoric

Apr 29 2011, 09:38 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 29 2011, 06:03 AM)

2 Legs + 2 Arms + Torso = all 5 limbs. If a limb isn't replaced, you use the character's Attributes. If it is replaced, you use the Attribute of the limb. Formula is (Leg + Leg + Arm + Arm + Torso) / 5 = the Augmented score. Character has STR 3. Leg (cyber) STR 5 + Leg (meat) STR 3 + Arm (cyber) STR 6 + Arm (meat) 3 + Torso (meat) 3 = 20. 20 / 5 = 4. So the character would show STR 3(4). Correct?

AFAIK, this is the RAW formula.

Well, I played a little with the Chummer CharGen (let's call it CCG), and found out some other things you might want to work on:

- In the Initiation Tab, the Add&more function doesn't work when adding metamagics. Also, when clicking on Ok without selecting any metamagic, I have an error message, see below:

[ Spoiler ]

- When bonding a power focus, it doesn't seems to add its rating as a "mod" bonus when calculating dice pools. As per RAW, it adds its rating to any test involving the Magic attribute, excepted for counterspelling.
- Similarly, Smartlink bonus doesn't seems to be added as a mod bonus for firearms skills. I do understand that it is not applicable all the tme because it needs a smartgun to benefit from, but i Think 99% of smartkinked PC uses smartguns, so it might be a good call to add the mod bonus.
- Armor for cyberlimbs is not calculated as per RAW: all cyberlimb armor is supposed to be cumulative, so if I wear a Jumpsuit (6/6) and have a cyberarm with armor 1/1, and a cyberleg with armor 2/2, my total armor rating should be 9/9. The CCG show a 8/8 armor rating, it looks like it only takes the highest armor rating from multiple cyberlimbs.
- When making a Mystic adept, dice pools are not calculated correctly: Say I build a Mystic Adept with Magic 6. Then I buy the improved reflexes (3) power, costing 4 power point, I should only have left a magic Rating of 2 for any dice pools related to sorcery or invocation. I I buy the spellcasting skill (2), I should have a dice pool of 4 when using the skill. But the CCG shows a dice pool of 8 (2 + total magic rating of 6). As I said in a previous post, you might want to add a way to track how many points in the magic rating are allocated to adept powers, and how many are dedicated to Mage stuffs.

Argent

Apr 29 2011, 09:46 AM

QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Apr 28 2011, 10:12 PM)

Argent, while I appreciate anti-munchkinry as much as anyone, 5-limb *customized* enhanced cyber is fairly prohibitive in cost and Essence already; I'm not sure how much of an actual problem it is. In addition, new house rules are great, but are they great in a chargen program?

Your 1-2-3 overview of the cyberlimb attributes RAW seemed right on, to me. AFAIK, the 5 'limbs' are indeed legs, arms, and torso.

I see your point, it does happen rarely in my games. Except for the fact its always the same player.... i need to work on him. The chargen should definitely be totally RAW and maybe way way later when Nebular is bored and has nothing to do he might be so kind as to throw in a few optional house rules into the mix.

Thanks for all the hard work Nebular. I think your generator is catching on cause there are more people posting stuff on this thread.

Nebular

Apr 29 2011, 02:34 PM

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 29 2011, 03:38 AM)

- When bonding a power focus, it doesn't seems to add its rating as a "mod" bonus when calculating dice pools. As per RAW, it adds its rating to any test involving the Magic attribute, excepted for counterspelling.

I was originally look at that as well, but came across this information: Bonding a Foci and Activating a Foci are not the same thing. A character can have a number of Foci bonded to them equal to their MAG score. This simply means that they have the ability to now activate them to gain their bonus, but does not actually grant it. To get a bonded Foci's bonus, you need to activate it. A character can have a number of active bonded Foci equal to their LOG score, but they must activate/deactivate these during their actions in play. Since they're not "always on" bonuses, I've left these out, otherwise you could be seeing bonuses for 5 bonded Foci when you're only allowed to have 3 active (for example).

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 29 2011, 03:38 AM)

- Similarly, Smartlink bonus doesn't seems to be added as a mod bonus for firearms skills. I do understand that it is not applicable all the tme because it needs a smartgun to benefit from, but i Think 99% of smartkinked PC uses smartguns, so it might be a good call to add the mod bonus.

The problem here is that this applies to individual guns that have Smartlink as opposed to an individual firearms Skill. If I have a Smartlink, one Heavy Pistol with a Smartgun System, and one Heavy Pistol without a Smartgun System, rolling the Smartlink bonus into the Pistols Active Skill would give me a total that is technically correct for the first, but too high for the second. I decided to leave the Smargun bonus out since it only improves the individual weapon as opposed to the Active Skill as a whole.

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 29 2011, 03:38 AM)

- Armor for cyberlimbs is not calculated as per RAW: all cyberlimb armor is supposed to be cumulative, so if I wear a Jumpsuit (6/6) and have a cyberarm with armor 1/1, and a cyberleg with armor 2/2, my total armor rating should be 9/9. The CCG show a 8/8 armor rating, it looks like it only takes the highest armor rating from multiple cyberlimbs.

Right you are. Not sure where I was getting the idea that only the highest single one applied. Think I got this in my head when I took the first crack at Cyberlimb Enhancements.

QUOTE (Leoric @ Apr 29 2011, 03:38 AM)

- When making a Mystic adept, dice pools are not calculated correctly: Say I build a Mystic Adept with Magic 6. Then I buy the improved reflexes (3) power, costing 4 power point, I should only have left a magic Rating of 2 for any dice pools related to sorcery or invocation. I I buy the spellcasting skill (2), I should have a dice pool of 4 when using the skill. But the CCG shows a dice pool of 8 (2 + total magic rating of 6). As I said in a previous post, you might want to add a way to track how many points in the magic rating are allocated to adept powers, and how many are dedicated to Mage stuffs.

Yup. Planning on doing this in the not-too-distant future. Won't be in the next update, but perhaps the one after that.

Nebular

Apr 29 2011, 02:47 PM

QUOTE (ggodo @ Apr 28 2011, 10:59 PM)

Watching you two talk is confusing. Anyway, it's not showing my Complex Forms anywhere on the printed character sheet. Am I doing it wrong?

Nope. I'm the one doing it wrong.

This will be fixed in the next update.

redwulf25

Apr 29 2011, 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 29 2011, 10:34 AM)

The problem here is that this applies to individual guns that have Smartlink as opposed to an individual firearms Skill. If I have a Smartlink, one Heavy Pistol with a Smartgun System, and one Heavy Pistol without a Smartgun System, rolling the Smartlink bonus into the Pistols Active Skill would give me a total that is technically correct for the first, but too high for the second. I decided to leave the Smargun bonus out since it only improves the individual weapon as opposed to the Active Skill as a whole.

Who makes a character with a smart link and then buys a dumb gun?

Nebular

Apr 29 2011, 04:50 PM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ Apr 29 2011, 10:13 AM)

Who makes a character with a smart link and then buys a dumb gun?

Broke? Scaveneged weapon without Smartgun?

If it makes more sense to everyone to just roll the Smartlink/Smartgun bonus in the Firearms skills then I'll toss it in.

ggodo

Apr 29 2011, 06:11 PM

I would rather it wasn't there, simply because I often have characters with plenty of weapons.

LonePaladin

Apr 29 2011, 06:44 PM

I'm with ggodo there. If smartlinked weapons are assumed, it's too easy for players to forget to actually do it.

redwulf25

Apr 29 2011, 07:51 PM

Found another oddity. I opened up a character I made last night and his contacts and his enemy are gone. Also I forgot to choose his adept powers and now it's saying he doesn't have any power points.

Edit: Ok, the 0 power points issue cleared up and showed an accurate number after I bought a power.

Edit 2: Just noticed, not only are his contacts and his enemies gone, the button to add an enemy is gone. So it looks like me not being able to add an enemy on my first attempt wasn't user error but a weird bug that intermittently causes the enemies button to not display.

And while I was posting that the button came back but will not let me press it. I'm getting an Unhandled exception error Input string was not in a correct format when I try.

Details of the error spoiler tagged.

[ Spoiler ]

CODE

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.FormatException: Input string was not in a correct format.
   at System.Number.StringToNumber(String str, NumberStyles options, NumberBuffer& number, NumberFormatInfo info, Boolean parseDecimal)
   at System.Number.ParseInt32(String s, NumberStyles style, NumberFormatInfo info)
   at Chummer.frmCreate.cmdAddEnemy_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.225 (RTMGDR.030319-2200)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
Chummer
    Assembly Version: 0.0.0.57
    Win32 Version: 0.0.0.57
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Martin/Desktop/Shadowrun/Chummer.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
    Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
    Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
    CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
    <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

Nebular

Apr 29 2011, 08:39 PM

That's weird. I can't seem to reproduce this error. Could you email me your save file (nebular@shaw.ca) and I'll see what might be causing the problem.

Wizard_Thoarin

Apr 29 2011, 10:15 PM

I agree that adding in bonuses that only apply under certain conditions shouldn't be added in automatically. However, it might be nice to have on the character sheet somewhere a list of optional dice pool modifiers the character has and their bonus maybe broken down by area like ranged combat, melee combat, magic, hacking, rigging... that way the player can look at a glance at any dice pool modifiers he has that aren't automatically figured into an attribute or skill.

Nebular

Apr 29 2011, 11:08 PM

I went ahead and made an option for the Smartlink bonus so that those who want it can have it, and those who don't, well, don't. By default this is off. If you turn it on and add a Smartlink to your character, Automatics, Exotic Ranged Weapon, Heavy Weapons, Longarms, and Pistols add in the +2 bonus for Smartlink.

Nebular

Apr 29 2011, 11:40 PM

I've managed to get all of the Grunt NPCs from SR4A and all of the NPCs from Contacts and Adventures entered. You can get them from http://www.dndjunkie.com/dev/chummer/NPCSaves.zip. Should save any Game Master a lot of time.

(That's 204 save files for anyone counting)

ggodo

Apr 30 2011, 12:02 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 29 2011, 04:40 PM)

I've managed to get all of the Grunt NPCs from SR4A and all of the NPCs from Contacts and Adventures entered. You can get them from http://www.dndjunkie.com/dev/chummer/NPCSaves.zip. Should save any Game Master a lot of time.

(That's 204 save files for anyone counting)

A hero is you!

redwulf25

Apr 30 2011, 12:07 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 29 2011, 06:40 PM)

I've managed to get all of the Grunt NPCs from SR4A and all of the NPCs from Contacts and Adventures entered. You can get them from http://www.dndjunkie.com/dev/chummer/NPCSaves.zip. Should save any Game Master a lot of time.

(That's 204 save files for anyone counting)

Nice!

redwulf25

Apr 30 2011, 12:21 AM

The add and more button when buying bioware is kicking me over to cyberware.

Nebular

Apr 30 2011, 12:31 AM

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ Apr 29 2011, 07:21 PM)

The add and more button when buying bioware is kicking me over to cyberware.

Yeah, I noticed this the other day. Took me a moment to realise why I could find a Synthcardium in the Cyberware list. It has already been fixed and will be in this weekend's update.

redwulf25

Apr 30 2011, 12:53 AM

QUOTE (Nebular @ Apr 29 2011, 07:31 PM)

Yeah, I noticed this the other day. Took me a moment to realise why I could find a Synthcardium in the Cyberware list. It has already been fixed and will be in this weekend's update.

Thanks. Hopefully this is the last thing I'll bug you about tonight but I just made a face with "False Front" and I can't find the activator chemical that bit of ware needs. I don't know if it got missed or I'm looking in the wrong place. This really is one of the quickest and easiest to use character generators I've used - I just keep tripping over weird bugs or equipment found in places I didn't think to look.

Nebular

Apr 30 2011, 01:29 AM

Hmm, those drugs are indeed missing. I'll have those added in to Gear in the next update.

Nebular

Apr 30 2011, 05:53 AM

Edit: Duh. Didn't read the part for Mystic Adepts on page 195 that clearly states that the Magician's MAG is what counts towards an Active Skill. Read everything else on Mystic Adepts except that. Some of the info in that book is just too scattered.