If the dice roller will automatically call up your Edge score (which I think is a good idea for a dice roller), then there's another optional rule that'll have to be tracked. It's right in the SR4a book for modifying the game, where when you spend Edge your Edge DP is your current spent Edge score. I have a feeling it'll mean a lot of work to code this in.

My goal was to get some feedback on the idea, and the general consensus is that nobody is strong opposed to it, but there would be some obvious... er... challenges. I can't say for certain whether or not this will make it into the app at any point right now. I'll shove this in the back of my mind and let it mull it over for a while to see if it hits upon any great ideas or major stumbling blocks. For now at least, it's the last item on my list. But remember, I said Free Spirits and A.I.s would likely not happen and here they are, so anything is possible!

Damage and Condition Monitor Penalty

The way Chummer calculates the Condition Monitor Penalty seems to be off: you're supposed to be at -1 for every 3 boxes of damage on a given track, but Chummer adds together all the modifiers. This means if you're suffering 6 boxes, Chummer penalizes you 3 not 2, and for 9 damage you're penalized 6 not 3.




With those wounds Chummer currently inflicts -4 not -3, as Chummer inflicts -3 and -1, rather then the intended -2 and -1.

I believe 'cumulative' is used to mean between the tracks not within a track.

I'd say no real rush on the dice roller thing. I keep thinking there's more pressing issues in the functionality of the core program as opposed to expanding options, like Bobby's mention about the wound track DP modifiers (and I think my mention about the additional clip mod for firearms got lost in the shuffle).

Holy crap, that's not right! This will be fixed in the next update.

I apparently completely missed this one. Probably thought it was something to do with the spare clip discussion (or missed entirely some other way). It's actually on the list now.

Cool. Just don't forget that the capacity of pistols is cut to 75% when they have an additional clip (which I would think is negated by the extended clip mod).

Fair enough. I figured it was a stretch, in any case.

I bet ur current to-do-list is long, eh?

I don´t even remember what all the suggestions were that i made since the last update... but I´ll check the thread with the next update-summary when it comes out.
Many thoughts go down in this thread. It is deep and dark in these waters.

Every time I put a dent in the list, someone puts a few more in it. A lot of them have been taken care of in the next update which should be available this evening! Also fixed up a few things I found while adding this stuff in... like if you try to add a Quality in Build Mode which would put you over the BP/Karma limit for Qualities, the Quality doesn't get added and you don't lose/gain the points, but you still get all of the bonuses/penalties from it. Same thing happens for anything with a Nuyen cost in Career Mode when you don't have enough to pay for it. Whoops!

Yeah, just like the other percentage modifiers, you add 'em all together, then apply them to the base Weapon, so the -25% and +25% will cancel each other out. For some silly reason, I had Chummer applying them one at a time in the current build. This is corrected in the next update (along with adding support for Additional Clip).

So no reply on my questions about AIs.

My suggestion, for Inherent Programs, is as follows:
AIs get a number of Inherent Programs equal to their rating for free.
The rating of the Inherent Program is figured based off of an associated stat as shown on the table on page 89 of Unwired.
Every Inherent Program has Ergonomic and Optimization as Program Options for free.
The Rating for Optimization should be equal to the System Rating of the AI. If an AIs System Rating increases the rating for Optimization should also increase.
No other Program Options can be placed on Inherent Programs.
Inherent Program can not be increased during character creation.
AIs with the Ghost in the Machine negative quality do not start with any free Inherent Programs.
The cost for increasing Inherent Programs equals the new rating in Karma.

There should be a way for the AI to select one of their devices as their home node.
The devices ratings should have modified ratings based on the table on page 90 of Unwired. These should be displayed in the same same way that attributes are shown, base and modified.
The maximum base rating of the devices that can be selected is based on their lifestyle.

As an Option, default unchecked, allow for buying new Inherent Programs at a cost of 2 Karma. New Inherent Programs have Optimization at a Rating equal to System and Ergonomic for free.
The maximum number of Inherent Programs an AI can have is equal to their Rating.

Currently as the rules are written there is nothing that states what the Optimization's Rating is, but since the maximum Rating of an Inherent Program is double System, having it at System makes sense.
There are no rules on buying new Inherent Programs, but it makes sense to me that they should be able to do so. Who in their right mind would make an AI at a rating under 6 and loose out, or worse having none
with the Ghost in the Machine negative quality.

I just encountered the knowledge skill bug that was mentioned a while ago, when restarting and loading my character, Chummer just "forgot" that the character had 38 karma in knowledge skills and only remembered two languages, the rest... Poof.

Could you email me the character this is happening to? (nebular@shaw.ca) I can't seem to reproduce this and can't think of a reason as to why this would be happening.

Yeah, I'm running out of ideas that I could ask for in a Generator...Expanded knowledge skills maybe? Not really a big thing, but its an idea.

You could put those in a custom file. I had started to take the knowledge skills from the excel spread sheet and put them into a custom file, but I've not finished doing that.

Although it would be nice to be able to save into a custom skills file any knowledge skills or exotic skills you manually enter on a character.

Update time! This should take care of all of the Karma/Nuyen Expense undo stuff that I had planned.

Build 126

• added Expense Undo support for Nuyen: Armor Mod, Nuyen: Weapon Accessory, Nuyen: Weapon Mod, Nuyen: Vehicle Mod, Nuyen: Vehicle Gear, Nuyen: Vehicle Weapon, Nuyen: Vehicle Weapon Accessory, Nuyen: Vehicle Weapon Mod, Nuyen: Increase Lifestyle, Karma: Add Spell, Karma: Skill Specialization, Karma: Skill Group Rating, Karma: Skill Rating, Karma: Metamagic/Echo, Karma: Initiate Grade, Karma: Add Martial Art, Karma: Martial Art Rating, Karma: Martial Art Maneuver, Karma: Add Complex Form, Karma: Improve Complex Form, Karma: Add Complex Form Option, Karma: Improve Complex Form Option
• reorganised Options window into tabs so it is less cluttered
• fixed an issue that prevented Technomancers from improving their Complex Forms when the maximum Rating equaled their RES Attribute
• deleting a Complex Form Option now actually removes it from the Complex Form
• Skillsofts Complex Forms and Complex Form Options now only cost an amount of Karma equal to the Complex Form Improvement cost (default 1)
• Skillsofts Complex Forms now require the character to have the Biowire Echo
• Select Quality window now lets any Quality be selected when Ignore Rules is turned on
• selecting the Selected Vehicle item when any Vehicle has a Sensor Plugin no longer throws an error
• added support for the optional rule to ignore Armor Encumbrance when only a single piece of Armor is worn (disabled by default)
• list of sourcebooks in the Options window no longer requires the book to be selected before it can be checked/unchecked
• Update window now appears when updates are downloading and Automatic Updates are enabled so it doesn't appear as though the application has hung
• added support for changing a character's Metatype while in Create Mode (found in the Special menu)
• Free Contacts and Free Knowledge Skills options now show the proper checked status after saving options
• right-clicking on a file name in the most recently used list now makes it sticky so it always appears in the menu (right-click again to un-sticky)
• Source labels now show the full book name in a tooltip when you hover over them
• Qualities no longer add their Improvements to the character if they cannot be added because of BP/Karma limitations
• Bioware, Cyberware, Gear, Armor, and Armor Mods no longer add their Improvements to the character if they do not have enough Nuyen to purchase them in Career Mode
• Used Vehicles no longer throw an error when trying to add them to a character in regions that use "," to separate decimal places
• Condition Monitor penalties have been corrected to use the highest value, not cumulative
• Weapons now use the total ammo bonus modifier for all Mods instead of applying each bonus separately
• added support for Additional Clip adding a second clip to the Weapon
• Firing Selection Weapon Mods are now a separate item for each Mode that can be selected and add their Mode to the Weapon
• Complex Form Options have been added to printout XML
• Complex Form Options now appear on character sheets
• Text-Only character sheet not prints Complex Forms when applicable
• all Critter Powers are removed from the character if access to the Critters tab is lost
• Infected Qualities now grant access to the Critters tab and add the appropriate Critter Powers

Outstanding Items

• Dice Rolling for Stat?
• MAG/RES Affected by ESS Loss
• Support for Mutant and Toxic Critters Conversion
• Copy Character Gear to Another Character
• House Rule: Power Points from Initiation
• Spare Clips?
• Cheat Sheets?
• Modular Electronics
• Multiple Capacity Items
• House Rule: Essence Affects Maximum MAG/RES

Another strange thing I noticed: When starting Chummer, it updated itself, starting a new .exe - but in the background, in the Resource Monitor, Chummer was still loading data for a whole while.

Yeah, I know. Its more for the ideas. Everynow and then, I don't know what to do for a character as far as knowledge skills, and its nice to browse through ideas and strike something up. Like I said, it isn't a big deal.

Speaking of knowledge skills, the drop down doesn't have anything at all anymore. Glitch or intention?

Uh.... that's... not good.

Happening in your version as well?

Not sure, but I haven't updated to 126 yet (still at 123) and noticed this issue is present. Even the few extra knowledge skills I added with a custom XML don't show.

At least the entries are free form, so all that's really lost is that easy reference list of what can be a knowledge skill (a hurdle the size of Mt. Everest for new players).

Yup. Thankfully I'm using source code control so it's easy to find what exactly I screwed up. Populating the list of Knowledge Skills was something that was handled by the Uneducated property of the Skill control. When Uneducated changed (was made right), that property went away, along with all of that code. I've put it back and have it populating when it becomes a Knowledge Skill now, so everything is back to normal. And on that note... (brace yourselves, this is a big update)...

Build 127

• Knowledge Skill list is properly populated again

Wow, right fast on that one.

And a couple of things I noticed in testing in career mode. As far as I'm aware of, with an additional clip you can have two different types of ammo loaded in the weapon; type A in one clip & type B in the other. There's currently no support for this.

Also the Eichiro Hatamoto II's description says it "fires a large-bore shotgun round.", so would actually use shotgun ammo and not heavy pistol ammo. The Taurus Multi-6 is another ammo-odd weapon in that it can use light pistol or heavy pistol ammo, and I noticed there's no grenade launcher option for the Colt M22A3. (all arsenal weapons)

The newest update does not seem to be downloading on my end.

Edit: Found the issue. For some reason even after I closed Chummer Chummer.exe continued to run in the background and it was screwing up my attempts to reopen the program.

Just a suggestion: As Technomancers use different versions of the Computer, Software, Hacking, etc. skills it would perhaps be a nice idea to allow selection these skills twice, one in "mundane" form and once in "TM", for all the TMs who already had these skills before becoming TMs.

Just finished updating, thanks for continuously adding to this great tool!

I'm getting an unhandled exception when I click on a Katana to modify it. (Length cannot be less than zero. Parameter name: length) (EDIT: It's any Melee weapon apparently)

Also it appears that you can only have one Underbarrel Weapon, no matter how many weapons you have. (Was trying to add tasers to katanas...) The previous version had the same problem but for Melee Weapons only, if you added something to a Katana you can't do anything with a Sledge Hammer for example. Now it's for any weapon.

Oh, another suggestion: The Update Window blocks, while downloading the update, looking pretty ugly. I would suggest, first loading the update info, displaying it and then starting to load the update in the background, so people can at least read the update news.

And as the window blocks, I have to ask, if you really use .NET 4.0 features or if it would be possible to go back to .NET 3.5 or earlier?

I'm getting similar when trying to add an accessory to a weapon, like 'Spare Clips' to a pistol, now. Doesn't seem to impede the use of Chummer if I select Continue, but it still is an oddity.

-I can´t add mods to a cyberweapon(there r some which can only be applied to cyberguns).

There are? Which? But you are right there is no rule forbidding you to mod cyberweapons. They are bad enough already.

Wow. I can't believe I didn't catch the problem with melee weapons. It has to do with trying to figure out the firing modes for a Weapon now that the Firing Selection Mod is supported, and melee Weapons obviously don't have a firing mode. I'll have another update out this evening to correct this. I'll try to have the underbarrel thing fixed up as well.

Yeah, I don't like the update window. I ported it from another app that I wrote, long before Chummer had as many files to work with as it does now. It needs some serious work, but since it works and there are other issues or a higher priority, it hasn't really received any attention.

It does take advantage of some of the features of .NET 4.0. I looked at converting it to 3.5 a few months ago for a laugh. It's doable, but not a quick task. One of the reasons I went with .NET 4.0/C# is to get used to it since most of what I do is .NET 3.5/VB. If .NET 4.0 wasn't available for XP I would have done this in .NET 3.5, but it is, so here we are!

How do you handle Accessories/Mod that have a cost of Weapon Cost then? I'm assuming you would just use the cost of the Cyberware, correct?

The mods say Weapon Cost*x, so yes by RAW. It would make those mods pretty expensive though. calculating an appropriate "weapon cost" for cyber weapons would probably be more just, but that is far into houserule territory.

I just took a quick look at the Cyberguns description (SR4A 344, last sentence right before "Cyber Melee Weapons" bold item): Laser sights, silencers, and sound suppressors are also available (they are listed in the table); other weapon accessories (like gas-vent systems) cannot be installed. Given that the book doesn't cover Weapon Mods since it was covered by Arsenal and not part of the base rules, it would seem the intent is that they can only be modified with the items they list in the Cyberguns table and nothing else.

This will be supported in today's update, though it's being done a little differently now that I've had some time to think about it. The application will support Adept Power Point Improvements. I'll also provide a link to a custom data file which will have the Additional Power Point Metamagic in it so anyone who wants it won't have to write any XML to get it. It will exist outside of the standard application and data files though since it is a house rule.

I don't think that is the intention. Accessories are completely different from modifications. Accessories take additional space under/over/in front of the barrel. Modifications do not alter the sie of the weapon unless explicitly stated otherwise.
Look for example at the underbarrel weight. The accessory probably is a weight that is attached to a picatinny rail under the barrel. The modification most likely replaces the barrel shroud/housing with one made of heavier material, or installs weights between the barrel and the shroud. The new exterior can still have rails and thus still take accessories.

Actually it's an optional rule, stated in street magic. You support other optional rules related to magic within the tool. But... as it's your babe I'm perfectly fine with any solution that will allow using it in one way or another :>
The issue with Magic reduction by Essence loss not covered as RAW I'd think being more pressing atm though...

Oooh, my bad. If it's an optional rule then I'll just roll it into the standard Metamagic stuff instead. I'll try to have MAG/RES being affected by ESS corrected for this update as well, so it will both reduce your current Attribute and the maximum.

What's it currently doing with Essence and Mag/Res as I thought that is what it was doing.
I know I would like to see an optional rule added so that it decreases the Maximum and only decrease the current if it's value would be greater than the new maximum.

Currently, Chummer handles Magic loss as negative attribute modifier. But Magic loss through lowered Essence lowers the EFFECTIVE attribute. That isn't covered yet. It wouldn't be that of an issue if this wouldn't mean that subsequent raises are much more expensive than in the RAW.

I asked this question before in general shadowrun forum and everyone said that raw makes increasing after magic loss more expensive.

If you start with a 5 magic and you loose one point of essence then your max goes to a 5 and your effective goes to a 4.
If during play you want to increase your Magic back to a 5 you would have to pay karma as if you were going to a 6 not a 5.
At least that is what people were saying in the Shadowrun forum.
It's the same for Resonance.

It's not the way the group I play with does it, but that is the way I've been told it's supposed to be done.

Yeah, this is how it reads. If you have a a piece of 'ware that drops your max MAG to 5, you need to spend 65 BP (effective MAG 6) to get your full MAG Attribute. I've got this fixed up and have the house rule for reducing only the max in for the next update. For those without that house rule turned on, your MAG will appear as any other augmented Attribute. So 6 (5) for example, showing that you've invested enough BP/Karma to raise it up to a 6, but that its effective value has been reduced from the ESS loss. The Metatype maximum will show as 1/5 (5) though to show what your actual limits are. With the house rule turned on, you just see it like any other attribute that has a max of 5.

Will you have resonance working the same way, and with the same option?

Huh? Which forum? After CharGen The cost for raising an attribute is 5*new rating. So your new rating will be 5 so it costs 25 Karma not 30. Whether you could be raising it from 5 to 6 if you hadn't installed any ware, is irrelevant.
BP Chargen is a bit different. you first buy your attributes, then install ware and at the end calculate your effective attributes.

Yes. MAG/RES behave in the same manner.

I asked this question in the Shadowrun forum on this site about a month ago. The response I got was is the cost to increase is based off of the unmodified by essence loss value.
So a 5 decreased to a 4 would cost 30 karma to increase. That was the response I got from the majority of people.
In the game I play we don't decrease Magic or Resonance during character creation or afterwards unless the current attribute and maximum are the same when maximum gets decreased.

This is also how I have it implemented.