Who will need a SIN to get into Ute and Denver? Jamie and Kliko seem ok.

Also, we don't actually know that our SINs will get us back into Ute. I suspect my search tests were generally not successful. If I knew how much time I've spent, I might have enough time try some more.

Galen

lol, I gues as long as we get our Visa's issued (in-time) we should be in the clear. At least for the meet. The fallback-option is off course bribe the border guard in case particular issues arise. There's some other tricks we can work up our sleeve as well, but we'll get to that once we finally have to pass a border.

We could have ebay'd it!

Bubba got a good fence for that sort of equipment, more power to him!

As far as SINS go, is this something you were supposed to decide at character gen? Given bubba's background I would assume he has a SIN, but if this was something you had to pay for then he is SINless. Any help?

Depends on your GM. Rules-wise you're free to choose to be a sinner or sin-less at chargen. Kliko for example is SIN-less, but his zergling-spawn... I mean, private little Orcish Horde, otherwise known as his loving children, do have SIN's.

Did the visas get submitted?

Galen

Visas generally take some time, so they are definately not going to be ready overnight, plus you would need a travel visa for each country (Ute, CAS, UCAS, Pueblo).


I generally try to avoid giving you a numerical success, when I can give you actual IC details. You can decide how successful you are based on that. I prefer this method as it is my opinion you get a better story and I get less meta-gaming.

You may or may not be able to pass through some of the boarders, with just a SIN.

I can understand the lack of numbers. However, I don't understand the information I've been given. I cannot advise everyone else to purchase SINs at a rate of 1000 nuyen or 36,000 nuyen. I cannot tell if either will be successful in allowing us to cross any border. I assume those who forge SINs would be able to tell how extensive the SIN is checked at a border crossing. That information should be available in a qualitative way.


I thought that was the question I asked. What do I need to get into Ute Nation, Ute Sector, and back into Ute Sector. What I think I've been given is that you need a SIN of any value and a visa, in all cases.

EDIT: upon a reread, this post sounds a bit snarky. That is not my intention. I am trying to understand.

Galen

First, that information WAS given in a qualitative way. Second, that is the one thing I am definitely NOT going to give you a quantitative way.

It is your choice how much you want to spend on your SINs.

If I give you all the target numbers now, it will take away all your planning as you will easily be able to meta game your way through the mission.


My fault. By reading all the other posts (OoC and IC) and including my IC, I thought everyone was on the same page. SIN and a Visa are needed to legally pass through. The visa can be programed into your visa, you do not have to carry the old fashioned book to modern countries.

What are your specific questions?


Agreed.

Happy thats cleared up. Fortunately we have a few days until we arrive in Denver self. Until that time we can kill time in Vegas@Ute

Can't imagine there will be a lot of hassle at the Calfree-Ute border. Especially when you list Vegas as a stop on your way to Denver.

You will need a SIN with a visa... like going to Mexico from the US. I don't remember needing one to go to Canada from the US, but everywhere else I have gone I have needed one, even when I was in the military.

Yeah, even for us Europeans to enter Turkey requires a visa, but its a mere formality really. You pay some money when you enter the country, get a visa and thats about it. I imagine something similar between Calfree and Ute. It depends really on whether the countries have any bi-lateral agreements or such (which is most likely between Canada and the US).

Ok, so I'm working on getting the visas submitted. Do we have an estimate of how long it will take to get the visas approved? Can we actually get a visa at the border?

Galen

You can assume CFS to Ute will be simple enough at the border, however from your readings even going from Ute to the Ute Sector may be a bit difficult.



We can use this site Kliko located as a guideline, but I have yet to read it entirely so it is not canon. Denver Wikidot



I am assuming you electronically filed via matrix. However, if you did not have a SIN you have nothing to attach it to. So there lies your problem. Remember you will first need approval from your country, then also from the visiting countries. This sometimes takes time, as the gears of governmental work in CFS are a bit rusted. However, you can also apply at the border crossings, and deal with Knight Errant.



Do you want me to tell you exactly when they will be ready?


So far, who has SINs???

When did people fill out their paper work?

Who has a real SIN, who is SINless, and who has a fake SIN???

Here is my list

When I submitted my information to get a passport, the webpage listed a estimate of a two week turn around. I don't need to know exactly. I assumed I could get a rough estimate. If it's a couple days turn around we could adjust our preparations.

I forgot to ask everyone for the visas before I went on vacation. My recent IC post asks for that. I assumed I'd get them back pretty quickly. I submitted them through a travel agency. That was done at 1:15 am Friday.

Jamie has a real SIN and a fake one. She submitted her visa using the fake IDs credentials.

Galen

Corsair has a real SIN. However, he has a Fake SIN as well. For this trip, it might make sense to use the real SIN to get a passport.

Browse utility coding:
6 Computer dice, 3 complementary dice from programming suite

TN base 6
Mem x2 -2
design -1
aptitude -1

Actual TN 2

Computer roll: 4,3,3,2,1,1
Complementary dice: 17,3,3

I got 5 successes. That means I need to spend 44 hours of coding to get this finished.

EDIT time tracking
1 hour on the road to Vegas
1 hour in Vegas.
1 hour on the road to Cedar City
2 hours on the road to Grand Junction


Galen

Felix has a sin but will be using a fake SIN (rating 4) for the mission.

Bubba will use his real SIN since he was born to an affluent family.

galen - Before everyone's visa can be in, I have to know what ID they are using. If needed we can edit your post accordingly when everyone gets caught up.

ntwi - What is Felix's name on his SIN that he will be using?

K - I got that. I listed you as a fake ID since it isn't his ID.

Everyone - If someone needs to purchase a SIN, that can be arranged. Someone may be behind and not have an SIN that is valid, so they will not be able to fill out the visa yet. You know, matching all the information, like name, DOB, SIN, etc, etc, etc...



Are there any more questions for travel? There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding and misconceptions. If I were you guys I would play it safe. Anyone who needs or wants to purchase a fake SIN needs to fill out their travel paperwork out AFTER the SIN is acquired. This may slow you down. I thought I was kind to give you know deadline so there would be time to gather all necessary things before the mission.

Sneak - I got your email with your update. Did you still have questions? I am not sure if I replied or not to your last email. Been busy, especially learning a new unit at work, running two football pools, this, and keeping up with my husbandly duties (ie fix broken plumbing constantly!).

@Bastard Did you see my post above about Jamie's fake SIN? My data didn't make it into your spreadsheet. May Jiang is the name for that ident. It's Rating 4.

I'll be happy to amend my post whenever we work this out.

Galen

Yes, just forgot to add that.

I dont have any questions about the updated character sheet I sent you, but I was hoping you would give it the ok, which I havent heard from you yet.

Rating 1
Rating 1
Rating 4 - This one in use
Rating 6

If you want more details on the SINs let me know and I'll edit it in

@Bastard: Can you roll us forward until the Ute border or to Vegas depending on how things go at the border?

-EDIT-
@Others: Juan told me he was occupied for the coming few months due to RL constraints, hence I used Ludmilla's moving house thingie to exclude her for now.

I cannot roll you forward until you have all told me your SIN/visa status.

I think that you guys are all overlooking the fact that the visas may not be ready, and are taking your travel arrangements lightly. IMHO.

I think Kliko is just interested in getting into the meat of the run. Most of us would like to assume that travel just happens. Now, I suspect you, as GM, want to provide us with the experience of how hard it is to get from here to there. Perhaps we may, in future, factor that in to the jobs we take on.

As for whether or not everyone has their documentation in order, some clarification might help. I think everyone but Ludi has responded that they have a SIN. Corsair and Jamie have posted IC that they filled out the visa for and it was submitted by Jamie. I suspect everyone else expected to say, this is the SIN I'm using. They probably thought you and I would interpret that to mean they filled out the visa with that SIN data and sent it to Jamie. Do you expect everyone to post IC that they filled out the form and sent it to Jamie?

In your chart, I do not understand what you mean by APPEARANCE TO TEAM - TRAVEL STATUS. Can you clarify those headings please?

Galen

You're spot on! Its a plus of course to be able to arrange your own travel arrangements . Kliko got some contacts that should help us in the more exotic (and violent) places of the sixth world.

For Felix travel has never been a big headache, as he carries nothing that is illegal when he leaves the shotgun at home. Because of this, and the general ease of travel between countries that I have visited, I hadn't given too much thought to visas and the like. Russia is the only country that I visited where there was paperwork to fill out and a delay before permission.

If you have a different vision of borders in the world of Shadowrun, I'll adjust fire to the world you create for us. I just hadn't remembered much when reading the last mission so I wasn't expecting it for this.

You are correct. Travel is definitely part of the run. Otherwise I would have just made the run in CFS. The reason why I put emphasis on the little things is because I give out a lot of Karma for you to spend wisely. Everyone should be thinking about small mundane character building active and knowledge skills, not just beefing themselves up.

Ludi is taken care of. I do not need IC posts. I just needed info on what everyone was using as IDs. Preparation purposes. I want it stated now, so I have all needed info ahead of time.

APPEARANCE TO THE TEAM is how good the ID looks to the team members, giving you an idea of the rating without giving you a number. TRAVEL STATUS is whether or not anyone has a visa/passport on that ID already.

Travel for me has been the opposite, except for getting into Canada. I needed paperwork that took weeks to months to pass through to go to Africa, Middle East, Philipines, and Mexico (post 9/11).

There is definitely a different vision in the 6th world. While some are pretty easy (Seattle) others are very difficult (Denver) per canon. I tried to insinuate, hint, and flat out say that through the IC several times, and I should have made that more clear. It seems everyone is under the assumption that this is not a major deal and you all will simply waltz through. Please reread this information.


NOTES on Denver
Denver is a very hostile place. There are 10 Meter tall walls separating the different sections of the city from each other. Each North American Nation has a Sector in Denver, aka Treaty City, aka Front Range Free Zone, aka Mile High City. It is no joke trying to cross boarders here.


GM NOTES
***Crossing boarders to, in and through Denver is not a joke.
***Visas are not guaranteed to be ready in one day.
***When filling out travel passports for Denver, you need clearance from California Free State, as well as the country that owns the sector you wish to visit. This means if you plan to visit Denver entirely, you need passports from EACH AND EVERY nation. Not all of them are going to be as easy to get, not all of them are going to be as difficult to get.
***You even need a pass to get from Ute to Ute Sector FRFZ and vise versa. Same for Pueblo, as I stated in [color="#FFFF00"]the legwork and reiterated in the OoC.
***Travel is part of the mission!!! Otherwise I would have just started you there in the intro.
***The reason why these minor parts are not minor is to make a more in depth game. If you guys do not like this part of the game I can remove it. However, this does mean a lot less karma awards, as I encourage you all to flesh out your characters as much as possible for just such situations.

@Basterd - I mean, I read through the computer/data search results (the stuff you posted) and to me it sounded like it was very annoying to move around.

@All - Maybe we should hit up our local CalFree contacts and see if they have any advice or friends we can utilize to "fast forward" the visa process.

So we have:
So whats next? Jamie and Kliko can bitch some more, but how do we proceed?
Kliko better damn makes sure he brings enough Ares corp script for bribes Sure enough they must have indicated how long the CalFree-Ute visa procedure takes somewhere on the matrix?

So we now know all SIN information for everyone travelling to Denver. I assume Jamie submitted visas for each of them at 01:13:06 Friday, 31 March 2062.

I was not aware that there was a problem getting into Denver Ute Sector from Ute Nation. I knew there could be trouble getting from Denver Ute Sector to Ute Nation. I also knew there would be trouble getting out of the Denver Free Trade Zone into any sector.

1. Can I submit the visas so a resupply in Denver Ute sector would be reasonable?
2. Do we know how long it will be before we get the visas back?

I'd be perfectly happy to move forward to when the visas get returned. I don't really feel like we can do much until that gets done.

Galen

The problem with the visas are they are held up by the governments, so it is dependent on both CFS and the governments of each. When was the last time anyone got any government paperwork finished overnight?

This has seemed to upset or confused everyone. Would you like me to bypass this portion of the mission and just write in what happened?

I expected the delay from the beginning. I submitted the forms at 1 am. I never expected anyone to work on them until 11 am at the earliest.

I'm still fine to handle the documents and travel involved. I just don't want us spending real world time while our characters wait for travel papers ...chips?

I expect the when we get into Denver, we will need to redo some of this to get out of the Free trade zone if we have go into it.

Galen

Won't they have automated screening systems in place by 2062? I imagine its an automated process, checking your SIN's name and biometrics against some sort of blacklist database, then approve once you pay a fee and you get your visa confirmed (or denied).

Feel free to rolll us forward to either the border or the moment we get our visa's confirmed.

Can't we grease some palms to expedite the process? Just call up the data entry person. No doubt they're a wage slave. Since Denver sounds like a hell hole, someone should be on the take.

Possibly... How are you going to do so? At the border?

Can I also get a loadout for you all?

What gear are you taking?
How are you concealing it?
Who is driving?
Who is riding with who?


LUDI is staying in the rear, due to Mr. Juan having RL issues.

Can I also get a loadout for you all?

I am intending to take all of my gear except the spare Active Memory chip, the Predator ammo and I'm leaving 7 weeks of anticoagulant drugs back in my doss. She'll also convert her remaining funds into 300 nuyen credsticks.

What gear are you taking?
How are you concealing it?
So there's a question. I had assumed the most dangerous thing I was going to have was the cyberdeck. I expected to stash it in the bottom of a toolbox, or in a tent or something like that. The guns could also be stashed in spare shoes or under ice in a cooler. The Fichetti I thought I could carry more openly given the lack of security on CalFree roads.

Also, if the chopper is going, will it get searched as frequently? Could we put the most dangerous gear, like my deck in it?

Who is driving?
I thought driving would swap around.

Who is riding with who?
Not much concern to Jamie. She probably has a bunch in common with Corsair.

Can I also get a loadout for you?
Felix will not bring any weapons along, leaving his shotgun and holdout at home. The only odd items that might be illegal or requiring a permit in various places would be his sustaining focus (ring). He keeps it masked (via metamagic) at all times so that it does not appear to be a focus when viewed on the astral.

What gear are you taking?
Felix will have packed a variety of outfits to blend into most social situations. (Tres chic down to the black trenchcoat) Pocket Secretary and a variety of innocent data chips containing contemporary histories of Denver to the latest advances in Magic theory.

How are you concealing it?
The only thing "concealed" is the ring that everyone can see on his finger. It's magical nature is masked when viewed from the astral.

Who is driving?
Who is riding with who?
Per the directions Kilko gave out, Felix is riding with Kilko and probably swapping driving as it's a long drive. In areas away from the border and checkpoints, Felix will summon a small (Force ~3) air spirit to use it's guard power on the vehicles to prevent accidents.

While we are dealing with getting visas, Felix will submit visa applications to all the Denver sectors (other than Aztech) for both his Rating 4 (Cory Jenkins) and Rating 6 (John Hallett III) SINs. They will be submitted in different orders at different times with the usual reasonable degree of paranoia, but he'd like his escape route ID to be cleared for wherever he happens to go.

Definately at the border...

What gear are you taking?
Who is driving?
Kliko drives his own SUV. Corsair drives his own SUV and Bubba on the chopper (should have showered chummer)

-EDIT-
If Corsair feels against parking his car in fron of Kliko's workshop, we can also take Corsair's second Gaz-Willies.

Who is riding with who?
Felix with Kliko, Jamie with Corsair, Bubba on his own (unless he objects). Passengers will rotate along the driving.

The chopper is coming. Ok. Why?

What is it's route? Is it following along, cause it can get there a lot faster than the cars? Is it going to land in Las Vegas when everyone else stops? Can we stash gear in it?

Does anyone know what is needed to cross borders in a helicopter? What kind of registration is required?

Galen

Because Bubba smells terrible! To be frank, there's no added value in having Bubba on the chopper.

The "Chopper" is a style of motorcycle, not a helicopter.

I'll park my Gaz in front of your place. Don't worry. It's protected.

Gear - I'll bring my electronics, mechanic and computer tool kits. My personal comm unit (rating 4), my deck, both my Condors (on drone racks), my Browning Pistol (in its concealed holster in my tool kits), and my remote control deck.

I'm driving one of the vehicles. I have room for 2 more besides myself. I shoudl be able to drive most the way since I have a sleep regulator.

@Basterd - Based on the info Jamie and I have researched, does it seem like I'd be able to bring the Steel Lynx in? So is it going to be a big pain in the ass. Also, are there any big Urban Brawl matches going on in Denver. Maybe we can pretend to be fans? http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/2765505/

hahahahahaha. I had no idea. Now that you told me that makes so much more sense.

Galen

Are we going to need to make Stealth rolls to see how well we hide the stuff?

Galen

Possibly galen....


Had a busy weekend, but I will have an IC post bumping the game tomorrow evening... about 24 hours from now.